JOK's Helmet

[Orion]

Looks kinda' goofy if you don't have it on straight.  And during the game it was easy to spot him.  He was the one with the big head. 

I thought Ward said he was going to wear one during games after he got his last concussion, but he hasn't.  

[Ibleedbrown]

It was the first time l noticed it yesterday and it gave me Nintendo Tecmo Bowl vibes. Good for JOK. I get the impression he’s a highly self confident dude who marches to the beat of his own drum, and it’s one pretty cool drum. 

[D Bone]

 

 

 

[nickers]

20 minutes ago, D Bone said:

 

 

 

Nice looking picture of Dutch..

[AP1]

If it helps them, great. I see some say the Guardian Caps don't do much. I don't care. I just want to win.

I'm noticing more facemasks with no hardware on the the front brim. I'm noticing facemasks having more flex to absorb force. We are also in the second, maybe third season of the helmets with no top bar of the facemask and no hardware to attach it to the helmet. The facemask and visor are integrated into the helmet making it look like a motorcycle helmet. James Winston wears one.

[syd]

tua needs to be wearing one

[AP1]

11 minutes ago, syd said:

tua needs to be wearing one

No matter how stupid Deshaun Watson's contract situation, I'm thankful our team isn't staring down the barrel of that gun.

Edit: The Dolphins have an insurance policy on such a situation.

[Dutch Oven]

42 minutes ago, nickers said:

Nice looking picture of Dutch..

You literally look like a hobbit… 😂

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

You literally look like a hobbit… 😂

Tell you what - you and Nicks would make a great Felix and Oscar if they ever remade that series.  Good Lord my age is showing. And reading Ghoolie's lectures about successful business models like he's a bloated version of Elon Musk is really something to behold.  The helmet cover for JOK looks like he stole Ghoolie's bathing cap.  

 

[Dutch Oven]

56 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Tell you what - you and Nicks would make a great Felix and Oscar if they ever remade that series.  

 

One of my greatest regrets is how my relationship with nickers has gone south. My heart is heavy with sadness and guilt, I tell you. 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, AP1 said:

some say the Guardian Caps don't do much

I don't see how they could...but baby steps are better than none.  

How do you stop someone's brain from sloshing against their skull?  

[AP1]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

I don't see how they could...but baby steps are better than none.  

How do you stop someone's brain from sloshing against their skull?  

(I guess) The best that can be done is to push the force as far away from the frontal lobes and distribute it over as much of the rest of the helmet as possible.

[syd]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Looks kinda' goofy if you don't have it on straight

it gives him a sense of misdirection

[TexasAg1969]

32 minutes ago, syd said:

it gives him a sense of misdirection

s

(Image credit: 20th Century Fox)

[Orion]

1 hour ago, AP1 said:

(I guess) The best that can be done is to push the force as far away from the frontal lobes and distribute it over as much of the rest of the helmet as possible.

Like the old saying, It's not the fall...it's the sudden stop at the end.  

Seriously, how much surface area would be required to dissipate the force of helmet to helmet collisions?  You would have to have layers of absorbent materials of different densities within the helmet to incrementally step the energy down...which would make it significantly larger.  And the outer shell would have to help with the absorption by being leatherlike.  -  I remember seeing Kosar get sacked from straight up the middle and seeing his head bounce off the ground.  You'd need to be padded up inside a beachball sized helmet.  And let's face it, the helmet can't be much bigger than it is in order to make catches and make throws.  

The helmet has been an NFL icon.  It's been our logo, forever.  It already does not look like the iconic NFL (or Browns) helmet with the recent changes made to them.  

I know, a double layer outer shell with micro hydraulic shock absorbers in between.  Get Skunkworks on that.

[AP1]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Like the old saying, It's not the fall...it's the sudden stop at the end.  

Seriously, how much surface area would be required to dissipate the force of helmet to helmet collisions?  You would have to have layers of absorbent materials of different densities within the helmet to incrementally step the energy down...which would make it significantly larger.  And the outer shell would have to help with the absorption by being leatherlike.  -  I remember seeing Kosar get sacked from straight up the middle and seeing his head bounce off the ground.  You'd need to be padded up inside a beachball sized helmet.  And let's face it, the helmet can't be much bigger than it is in order to make catches and make throws.  

The helmet has been an NFL icon.  It's been our logo, forever.  It already does not look like the iconic NFL (or Browns) helmet with the recent changes made to them.  

I know, a double layer outer shell with micro hydraulic shock absorbers in between.  Get Skunkworks on that.

I don't have these specific answers. I graduated HS 23 years ago and college 19 years ago. I can remember one specific instance in  those years of a teammate getting his bell rung and being concussed. We wore what the school(s) could afford: AIR and Riddell. Those helmets got reconditioned when it could be afforded. 

In HS, we had two weeks of three a days: Defense in the morning, Special Teams in the middle, Offense in the afternoon. We were in full pads Monday-Wednesday. We did conditioning stations Monday-Wednesday. We ran sprints after team work Monday-Wednesday. We did tackling stations on Monday and Tuesday. We conditioned In the pool before lifting and watching film Saturday morning after a Friday night game.

In college, the NCAA had just mandated that two-a-days could not be on back-to-back days and that players were required to have one day off a week. For three weeks, we ran splits of two three hour practices one day and one five hour practice the next. Talk about miserable. No matter the outcome of Saturday's game or the length of the bus ride, we always conditioned Sunday night. Monday was our off day. Full pads on Tuesday with conditioning after team work. Full pads Wednesday. Shoulder pads and helmets on Thursday. We hit during individual drills, inside run, and team. 

What's my point in this? With all of the advancements in science and performance training, there have never been better athletes playing football. We have also de-conditioned parts of the body from hitting, because teams hit less during the week. HS and up, players now hit on game day and that's about it

Not every team needs to have the Junction Boys experience. Players aren't pussies if they want to drink water. They don't need to do headache drills daily, but I think they need to hit. I'll drive by HS practices and everything looks like a walk through. Granted, I'm not watching the whole practice. I understand wanting to keep QBs and RBs off the ground, but playing thud (no further action after initial contact) is not football. And part of this is that we're more aware of things now, so now we are always on the lookout. 

This is a rambling answer to a question you didn't actually ask, but I'm looking to fix something by starting at the root cause. At this moment, training modalities and conditioning the body to handle the collisions are under appreciated. Guardian Caps may work now, but when bigger, stronger athletes can produce more force in less space then the technology of the equipment is going to have to be able to increase with the abilities of the athletes. And we're seeing the increase in safety technology is insufficient in solely expecting that to take away concussions.

[Orion]

20 minutes ago, AP1 said:

Guardian Caps may work now, but when bigger, stronger athletes can produce more force in less space then the technology of the equipment is going to have to be able to increase with the abilities of the athletes. And we're seeing the increase in safety technology is insufficient in solely expecting that to take away concussions.

Yeah, great point.  The players are bigger, stronger, faster, because they have to work at their bodies all year long now.  And as you say, there's only so much technology can do (currently).  That's why there's rule changes for safety purposes.  But how far do you go with that?  Do you say, OK, nobody can lead with their helmet....RB, WR, LB'er, DB, nobody.  You can't ever lower your head.  You have to lead with your head up.  Even on 4th and 1.    Somehow you would have to remove the head from the game.  

[bbedward]

Seems like there’s conflicting info on whether or not they make a difference. Probably negligible, but better than nothing. The company behind them obviously has an incentive to overstate their effectiveness

[mjp28]

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

s

(Image credit: 20th Century Fox)

Or maybe. ...  like eating with some of you  dudes  at a fine restaurent.

( j/k you know that. ...  lol.)

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Or maybe. ...  like eating with some of you  dudes  at a fine restaurent.

( j/k you know that. ...  lol.)

Texas BBQ!!!! Fine enough for me!!!!😋😁

[ballpeen]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

I don't see how they could...but baby steps are better than none.  

How do you stop someone's brain from sloshing against their skull?  

Easy.  Take off facemasks and go back to leather helmets.  Players would self-regulate in short order and quit aiming for the head and leading by the head.

 

Rugby is a rough and tumble sport.  Those players don't wear helmets.  You don't read about the number of concussions in that sport.

[TexasAg1969]

5 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Easy.  Take off facemasks and go back to leather helmets.  Players would self-regulate in short order and quit aiming for the head and leading by the head.

 

Rugby is a rough and tumble sport.  Those players don't wear helmets.  You don't read about the number of concussions in that sport.

You do in soccer however. And of course they get terrible knee injuries almost every collision. You can tell the agony they are in.🤣

[AP1]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Yeah, great point.  The players are bigger, stronger, faster, because they have to work at their bodies all year long now.  And as you say, there's only so much technology can do (currently).  That's why there's rule changes for safety purposes.  But how far do you go with that?  Do you say, OK, nobody can lead with their helmet....RB, WR, LB'er, DB, nobody.  You can't ever lower your head.  You have to lead with your head up.  Even on 4th and 1.    Somehow you would have to remove the head from the game.  

 

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Easy.  Take off facemasks and go back to leather helmets.  Players would self-regulate in short order and quit aiming for the head and leading by the head.

 

Rugby is a rough and tumble sport.  Those players don't wear helmets.  You don't read about the number of concussions in that sport.

Thanks Ballpeen! I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm sure there are more proponents, but I specifically remember Joe Paterno saying in an interview, "You want to reduce concussions? Take the facemask off the helmet."

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You do in soccer however. And of course they get terrible knee injuries almost every collision. You can tell the agony they are in.🤣

This is correct. And every soccer Dad will tell you soccer is a contact sport in order to make their sons sound tougher. Maybe it is. I don't know, I'm not into it. Those coaches don't prepare their players for collisions. Football and rugby are collision sports. Tackling is practiced daily in rugby. DAILY. They are masters and their bodies are prepared. 

[Flugel]

21 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You do in soccer however. And of course they get terrible knee injuries almost every collision. You can tell the agony they are in.🤣

While true; rugby has a lot of contact from close proximity collisions.  The scrums (or whatever they call it) don't have guys spread out all over the place for run-up collisions. The physics of it all appear to be a lot safer.  Also, there's no helmets to be used as a weapon like James Harrison used to use on guys going over the middle.  He wasn't the only one in the league in doing that - he just comes to mind for his hits on Josh Cribbs, Mo Mass and others here. Harrison's neck had the circumference of an oak tree so he could do that forever. No helmets = no weapon. 

Back to the spacing and physics. In the NFL, LBers, Corners and Safeties with good speed are running across the field to smash a receiver that has to stop or slow down to close in on a pass.  The NFL encourages all this with their adjustments to the rules over the years to favor the passing game right down offensive linemen being able to extend their arms while protecting passers.  And why?  More points scored = higher TV ratings.  Higher TV rating perpetuate the NFL Ticket Monopoly supplying most/all owners with the highest shared revenues of their lifetimes as owners.  It's way more than home attendance gets them.  This is why the NFL Commish is marketing the league to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and South America.  It's all about the money.  If they REALLY cared about head trauma like they pretend to - Ballpeen's idea about returning to the leather helmets is a start as long as they find a better way to protect eyes, noses and mouths when using those.

Rugby is in America believe it or not; but it doesn't captivate audiences yet (if ever),  When I went to college they had a rugby team but it was club.  They didn't get crowds to their games just like the soccer team.  Rugby had a cool tradition.  They always drank a keg with the visiting team after the games.  That's some cool stuff right there. It was set up like a travelling fraternity.  

 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Easy.  Take off facemasks and go back to leather helmets.  Players would self-regulate in short order and quit aiming for the head and leading by the head.

 

Rugby is a rough and tumble sport.  Those players don't wear helmets.  You don't read about the number of concussions in that sport.

I thought of that before posting but dismissed it.  Football is a different game than rugby.  The downfield passing changes the whole dynamic.  QB's scrambling, you've got to get to him before he throws it, blitzers coming free with a head of steam coming right at him.  DB's trying to break up passes smashing into receivers right when the ball arrives.  Etc.  Sometimes your head just happens to be in the wrong spot.  

[AP1]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

I thought of that before posting but dismissed it.  Football is a different game than rugby.  The downfield passing changes the whole dynamic.  QB's scrambling, you've got to get to him before he throws it, blitzers coming free with a head of steam coming right at him.  DB's trying to break up passes smashing into receivers right when the ball arrives.  Etc.  Sometimes your head just happens to be in the wrong spot.  

Correct. It's a practical solution. It's NOT a pragmatic solution.

[Orion]

[AP1]

And now for my science fair report...

The Guardian Cap Website says GCs reduce force by up to 33%.

The NFL claims the caps have reduced concussions by 50%.

The NFL's data says the caps reduce force by 10%.

The way the caps move around the helmet as opposed to being stuck to the helmet is done to reduce neck injuries, which makes sense...rather the cap be the weak point in the collision chain than a neck.

As a kid, I remember Mark Kelso from the Bills wearing an extra layer in his helmet. Steve Wallace from the 49ers uses to wear one as well, but I don't remember him.

 

[tiamat63]

Tl;Dr 

You're all wrong.  

 

They're big, big shower caps. JoK just forgot to take his off before the game. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:03 AM, Orion said:

Looks kinda' goofy if you don't have it on straight.  And during the game it was easy to spot him.  He was the one with the big head. 

I thought Ward said he was going to wear one during games after he got his last concussion, but he hasn't.  

These stupid things are not going to stop or reduce concussions.

A concussion happens when your skull rapidly stops moving while your brain continues on and bashes the inside of your skill.

If anything, I have to think that by increasing the length of the head-to the base of the neck distance it will increase spinal injuries.

If you want to reduce concussions, get rid of the helmets.

But nobody wants a slower NASCAR.