Coach Stefanski to call plays this year

[syd]

I honestly thought he was going to pass that over to coach Dorsey.

 

[nickers]

Same as it ever was... Jesus...

[Bob806]

I really never viewed this as a big deal. Lots of over reaction about this over the years (not just in Cleveland).

Has Stefanski screwed up on this at times, yeah. The QB needs to audible out of the play if he sees something, the players need to execute. 

[Ibleedbrown]

The guy’s the reigning coach of the year. I have no issues if he wants to keep calling plays. 

[syd]

7 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

The guy’s the reigning coach of the year. I have no issues if he wants to keep calling plays. 

agreed, He was brought here for his play calling and it will be nice to see what he can do with a healthy #4.But all signs were pointing towards Coach Dorsey calling plays. So either way I'm good.

[Orion]

I never believed that he was going to give up his play calling.

Nobody is going to like every play call or every 'in game' decision...of any play caller or any HC.

I'd like to see Dorsey and / or Bubba Ventrone by Stef's side while we're on offense.  Just to have an eye on the big picture while Stef is into the nitty gritty.  To chime in with a big picture detail when appropriate.....like, Remember they only have one Time Out left...or something.  Or to be in communication with our challenge flag guy in the booth regarding a close call that didn't go our way.  Or maybe it DID go our way and we should hurry to the LOS and run a play.

Ideally I'd like my HC to be that and only that.  Not the OC and not the play caller.  Just someone in control of the big picture.  But when you have a HC that is the play caller, you're going to have to pry that play card from his cold, dead fingers.  He's not letting anyone else decide his fate.  Paul Brown sent in plays via offensive guards.  I'd wager that most HC's from the offensive side of the ball, call their own plays.  

 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

I never believed that he was going to give up his play calling.

Nobody is going to like every play call or every 'in game' decision...of any play caller or any HC.

I'd like to see Dorsey and / or Bubba Ventrone by Stef's side while we're on offense.  Just to have an eye on the big picture while Stef is into the nitty gritty.  To chime in with a big picture detail when appropriate.....like, Remember they only have one Time Out left...or something.  Or to be in communication with our challenge flag guy in the booth regarding a close call that didn't go our way.  Or maybe it DID go our way and we should hurry to the LOS and run a play.

Ideally I'd like my HC to be that and only that.  Not the OC and not the play caller.  Just someone in control of the big picture.  But when you have a HC that is the play caller, you're going to have to pry that play card from his cold, dead fingers.  He's not letting anyone else decide his fate.  Paul Brown sent in plays via offensive guards.  I'd wager that most HC's from the offensive side of the ball, call their own plays.  

 

Interesting and good attention to detail!  It got me thinking...  What's to say Dorsey can't do that from a better view above?  My guess is Coordinators wouldn't be up in the box with a mic and ear piece if they weren't doing so to communicate a better overall view of the formations and opposing vulnerabilities to the HC wiring in the play. I'm willing to bet Stefanski wants an earful back from his new OC as to what plays look ideal for the vulnerabilities he's seeing up there as well as what looks different from their film prep on the opponent.  All that. This makes the OC feel very involved with the play-calling.  He's the freakin steering wheel...

As for Bubba, he's got his hands full as it is making sure none of the 11 he has for each different special team unit need to be replaced via injuries during the game. That said, guys get injured during games so he's gotta be mindful that the replacement knows he needs to be out there.  Along the same line, injured players also get cleared to return to games so he has to make sure the special team replacement/fill-in is now aware the 1st unit ST guy is going back out there again - so we don't end up with 12 guys on the field.

Strength and Conditioning Coaches are usually very good at counting so I'd recommend having the Head Strength and Conditioning Coach or his Assistant be in charge of the timeout count for Stef while they do their other duty of reminding all players standing on the sideline to move back when applicable.  That usually positions the Strength Coach right near Stefanski.

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

As for Bubba, he's got his hands full

I'm sure....but he does carry the title of Assistant Head Coach.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

I'm sure....but he does carry the title of Assistant Head Coach.

Yeah, that's right.  

[ballpeen]

Stef got hired here because of his play calling.

 

Nearly half the head coaches in the league call the plays.

 

There is nothing out of the norm here.  Picking the plays off the menu board isn't that hard.  All the plays on the menu board are broken down in to down and distance, pass or run.  All plays called have a chance to succeed and all have a chance to fail.  I don't see Stefanski calling totally goofy plays given the situation.

[Dutch Oven]

On 7/25/2024 at 5:24 PM, Ibleedbrown said:

The guy’s the reigning coach of the year. I have no issues if he wants to keep calling plays. 

I do.

After watching Stefanski for four years, I have concluded that he is very capable of producing solid offensive production from the system he runs well.

After watching parts of two seasons of Watson playing for Stefanski, I have concluded that Stefanski is not comfortable creating an offensive system that fits Watson's skill-set and I have concluded that Watson isn't comfortable playing in Stefanski's preferred system.

They are a bad match. 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

 

There is nothing out of the norm here.  Picking the plays off the menu board isn't that hard.   .

 

 Going to stop you right there.  As someone who has put together an offense from the ground up AND called plays, I'll tell you it is incredibly involved, focused and difficult to do right consistently. 

 Granted, it wasn't at an NFL level. But even then it was myself and an assistant charting play calls and success rates.   I can tell you the process was tedious, time consuming and fast paced.  Then, when the game script went a bit off rail early, you have to essentially "rechart" a new offensive path.  Not at halftime, like most people think. Adjustments are made in between drives.  It's like being a boxer in between rounds - to the fan it's a lifetime to wait for the next punch, for the fighter it's a momentary flash. 

At the pro level it takes several coaches to make an offense work in-game.  That isn't including weekly prep from multiple assistants. 

Do not sell short the ability needed to be a decent pro coordinator and/or play caller. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 Going to stop you right there.  As someone who has put together an offense from the ground up AND called plays, I'll tell you it is incredibly involved, focused and difficult to do right consistently. 

 Granted, it wasn't at an NFL level. But even then it was myself and an assistant charting play calls and success rates.   I can tell you the process was tedious, time consuming and fast paced.  Then, when the game script went a bit off rail early, you have to essentially "rechart" a new offensive path.  Not at halftime, like most people think. Adjustments are made in between drives.  It's like being a boxer in between rounds - to the fan it's a lifetime to wait for the next punch, for the fighter it's a momentary flash. 

At the pro level it takes several coaches to make an offense work in-game.  That isn't including weekly prep from multiple assistants. 

Do not sell short the ability needed to be a decent pro coordinator and/or play caller. 

I did it one season for a youth football team. I'm talking 11 and 12 year olds down in Perry.

It feels like everything is moving at 150mph. 

Youth football in front of a crowd of dozens. 

[Ibleedbrown]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I do.

After watching Stefanski for four years, I have concluded that he is very capable of producing solid offensive production from the system he runs well.

After watching parts of two seasons of Watson playing for Stefanski, I have concluded that Stefanski is not comfortable creating an offensive system that fits Watson's skill-set and I have concluded that Watson isn't comfortable playing in Stefanski's preferred system.

They are a bad match. 

Ah, you could be right. I don’t think you can be a head coach without having a healthy dollop of control freak in you though, and l’m pretty happy with our control freak Stefanski. I’m confident he’s aware of his deficiencies and driven to correct them. He’s still growing and learning too, and l want him to go through his process to keep getting better and better. If he deems calling plays to be what’s best for the team, l’m happy to go “ok, cool.”

[Orion]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It feels like everything is moving at 150mph. 

Right.  Obviously, NFL HC's have been doing what they do for a long time...but still, just being the play caller keeps them quite busy...and leaves them less time to be Head Coachin'.  

[ballpeen]

13 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 Going to stop you right there.  As someone who has put together an offense from the ground up AND called plays, I'll tell you it is incredibly involved, focused and difficult to do right consistently. 

 Granted, it wasn't at an NFL level. But even then it was myself and an assistant charting play calls and success rates.   I can tell you the process was tedious, time consuming and fast paced.  Then, when the game script went a bit off rail early, you have to essentially "rechart" a new offensive path.  Not at halftime, like most people think. Adjustments are made in between drives.  It's like being a boxer in between rounds - to the fan it's a lifetime to wait for the next punch, for the fighter it's a momentary flash. 

At the pro level it takes several coaches to make an offense work in-game.  That isn't including weekly prep from multiple assistants. 

Do not sell short the ability needed to be a decent pro coordinator and/or play caller. 

Look, you don't have to sell yourself, so I will stop you right there.  No doubt setting the game plan is involved and tedious. I just don't spell out  obvious things.    Any dumb fuck knows that.

 

Dorsey is very involved.  He and Stef will spend many hours on the game plan examining defensive tendencies in various situations.  The plays on the menu are put there to counter every known variant the opponent has exhibited.  The D does the same.  Once those are charted, the game plan is set.  Now it is a matter of picking a play off the call sheet to counter what the D calls.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  If the D starts to do something different, we have to pivot on the fly.

 

I appreciate your input and experience, but it is a game.  It's way more involved, but it isn't something us peons can't understand.

 

Quit talking like you are the authority of the board.

 

JMO

[Orion]

41 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

it is a matter of picking a play off the call sheet

...in a nutshell.

The play caller is basically going to call plays that they've worked on during the week...and / or that are their bread and butter plays.  Yes, the playbooks are large...but every play in the book is not 'up' for this particular week (i.e. the current week).  

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, Orion said:

Right.  Obviously, NFL HC's have been doing what they do for a long time...but still, just being the play caller keeps them quite busy...and leaves them less time to be Head Coachin'.  

Yeah, I used to think why does Stefanski that had dreams of being a HC only want to continue being an OC/Playcaller when he finally gets hired to be a HC?  The 1 time Stefanski missed a game the Browns allowed OC Alex Van Pelt to call the plays in a playoff game at Pittsburgh the Browns scored 48 points. That said, once upon a time Marty Schottenheimer wanted to KEEP Lindy Infante's offense despite new coordinator in charge not having any degree of history/deep understanding of the set-up/purpose of the design and what made it all work efficiently.  It became a disorganized train-wreck. Not only, but the Browns let time expire at the end of the 1st half vrs the Oilers in FG range with 1 timeout remaining. That's a sign the OC was overwhelmed. 

All that said, if you would have told me the Browns would end up starting Watson, DTR, Walker, Flacco and Driskel at QB while losing both RTs, LT and Chubb (week 2) and still win 11 of 17 games last year - I would have said not with Stefanski calling plays.  More specifically, I woulda been WRONG! 

I'm pretty sure the playcalling will continue to include input from offensive coaches up in the box including the OC and Sr. Offensive Assistant Bill Musgrave and other Offensive Assistants looking at what parts of the defense are doing or giving us vulnerabilities to exploit. They can also tell Stef what they see the defense is attempting to do to take away a strength via formation, scheme or both. From that, they wire down recommendations for Stef to decide on for the down and distance.  

[Dutch Oven]

17 hours ago, Orion said:

Right.  Obviously, NFL HC's have been doing what they do for a long time...but still, just being the play caller keeps them quite busy...and leaves them less time to be Head Coachin'.  

I know there are very successful guys who do the duel HC/OC job well, but I just wonder sometimes how rare it is that someone can oversee the entire team AND do all the work during the week leading up to every game as the team's OC too... 

[Orion]

11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

but I just wonder sometimes how rare it is that someone can oversee the entire team AND do all the work during the week leading up to every game as the team's OC too... 

I hear ya...but since Stef has been here he's always had an OC.  I would hope that the guy that carries the OC title would be doing some of the work during the week.  That said, one would think that the play caller would have to be fairly involved with the offensive meetings during the week.

[Orion]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

if you would have told me the Browns would end up starting Watson, DTR, Walker, Flacco and Driskel at QB while losing both RTs, LT and Chubb (week 2) and still win 11 of 17 games last year - I would have said not with Stefanski calling plays.

My thoughts:  When Stef saw that he was totally screwed at QB, the analytics play calling sheet went into the shitter.  [DePo & Haslem be damned]   He had to score some kind of points any way he could.  No squandering a makable FG attempt with an analytics play call on 4th down.  He simply didn't have the QB situation to do it.  And It was too difficult to get the offense into FG range.  Also, he had the defense to try and pull out low scoring wins.  He didn't do anything special.  He didn't work magic with the play calling.  He just reverted back to pre-analytics football.  With a splash of 'keep your QB from losing the game' thrown in.  

[tiamat63]

On 7/27/2024 at 10:40 AM, Dutch Oven said:

 

It feels like everything is moving at 150mph. 

 

Wild, huh?   The biggest stress I found was how much you feel everything is on your shoulders.  Even if something happens beyond your control - like a receiver dropping an open pass, somehow it just comes back around on you.    

     

21 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Look, you don't have to sell yourself, so I will stop you right there.  No doubt setting the game plan is involved and tedious. I just don't spell out  obvious things.    Any dumb fuck knows that.

 

Dorsey is very involved.  He and Stef will spend many hours on the game plan examining defensive tendencies in various situations.  The plays on the menu are put there to counter every known variant the opponent has exhibited.  The D does the same.  Once those are charted, the game plan is set.  Now it is a matter of picking a play off the call sheet to counter what the D calls.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  If the D starts to do something different, we have to pivot on the fly.

 

I appreciate your input and experience, but it is a game.  It's way more involved, but it isn't something us peons can't understand.

 

Quit talking like you are the authority of the board.

 

JMO

  

 

   While I appreciate your posts and posting style, and I don't have a problem with you - you're essentially paralleling a pro offensive coordinator to some guy just using random words from a Denny's Menu after doing math homework.   Your over-simplified approach of.....

On 7/27/2024 at 7:18 AM, ballpeen said:

  Picking the plays off the menu board isn't that hard. 

.... is wildly off the mark, and it's wrong.      I don't have to be any 'authority' or otherwise to tell you that.    

But I appreciate the talk and look forward to more later on this season

 

2 hours ago, Orion said:

  He didn't do anything special.  He didn't work magic with the play calling.  He just reverted back to pre-analytics football. 

 

 I disagree.  When you're at a disadvantage at the most important position in the entire NFL, yet you still lead your team to win(s), that's pretty special.  Especially considering you have to second guess the viability of the bulk of the playbook and now have to window dress a small handful of concepts into an easily digestible package of formations and personnel groupings.   If anything, that's where you become "overly analytical". 

[Dutch Oven]

9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Wild, huh?   The biggest stress I found was how much you feel everything is on your shoulders.  Even if something happens beyond your control - like a receiver dropping an open pass, somehow it just comes back around on you.   

We ran the Wing-T offense, but I came up with a few passing plays to add to the almost exclusively run offense.

One was a simple "pick" play, with three receivers on one side, and the outside guy would hesitate for a moment, then do a slant behind the other two inner receivers who in theory would wall off the defenders by running fly patterns. First time we ran it the timing got all goofed up, but the outer receiver improvised and scored on the busted play that looked nothing like I drew it up.

Another play was a play action pass that got the defense going one way, with the wide receiver on the other side going deep, in theory clearing his flat. With the defense looking one way off the initial fake, the other RB would swing around to the vacated flat and in theory catch the swing pass on the fly with yards upon yards of open field in front of him. And that's how it started... the fake got the defense out of position, the backside receiver cleared out the flat, the LB wasn't going to figure it out and help out... but one problem, when the RB swung out around end for the pass, he didn't get enough distance between himself and the DE. He cut it too close, and the DE was able to get off his block and saw the lob pass to the RB and intercepted it. It happened right in front of me, and if the RB had swung out farther away from the end of the line, it was a huge gain. I can still picture it, it was like it happened in slow motion. 🤣

[Orion]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

When you're at a disadvantage at the most important position in the entire NFL, yet you still lead your team to win(s), that's pretty special.

...and he was recognized for that big picture view with the Coach of the Year award.  Which he would not have won without the Defense that he had.  He was not going to win any boat races with DTR & PJ Walker.  His Defense allowed him to win ball games by taking the air out of the ball and playing as safe as possible...until finally Flacco showed up and gave our offense an actual passing attack.  Yet it could not be the passing attack style that they had planned for the team prior to Watson's injury.  The offense had to be tweaked to the old style of Drop Back & Pass.  Again, not magic.  Just adjusting to the style of the QB that was thrust upon you.  It's what a good coach should do.  Therefore it seems to me, that we have a good coach.

I'm assuming that Stef will go back to the analytical approach to 4th down again this year...if the offensive passing attack, Including QB play, shows the expected abilities.  It's what Jimmuh and his sidekick DePo want.

[ballpeen]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

.

I'm assuming that Stef will go back to the analytical approach to 4th down again this year...if the offensive passing attack, Including QB play, shows the expected abilities.  It's what Jimmuh and his sidekick DePo want.

I would suspect most fans do as well....obviously with-in reason.  Our D probably makes that choice a bit easier.

[ballpeen]

23 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

  

 

   While I appreciate your posts and posting style, and I don't have a problem with you - you're essentially paralleling a pro offensive coordinator to some guy just using random words from a Denny's Menu after doing math homework.   Your over-simplified approach of.....

.... is wildly off the mark, and it's wrong.      I don't have to be any 'authority' or otherwise to tell you that.    

But I appreciate the talk and look forward to more later on this season

 

 

 

I think you are reading things in to my post.  As I said, it more to it than simply throwing a few dozen plays on to a call sheet.  I assumed most people understood that.

 

I apologize if I came across as abrasive.  I look forward to our conversations moving forward.

[ballpeen]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:38 PM, Orion said:

...in a nutshell.

The play caller is basically going to call plays that they've worked on during the week...and / or that are their bread and butter plays.  Yes, the playbooks are large...but every play in the book is not 'up' for this particular week (i.e. the current week).  

Exactly.  The full playbook might have 500 plays if you count the multiple variations of the same play.

 

The offensive minds put the plays they feel will be best suited against that weeks opponent.  All teams have their "stock" or bread and butter plays.  Then they add in some variations, and some "trick" plays.