The State of the 2024 Browns: Quarterbacks

[Dutch Oven]

Well, we've made it through the offensive linemen, tight ends, running backs and wide receivers. Now, we dive in the most important position in all sports - the quarterbacks. This is a position that is a riddle wrapped up in intrigue, smothered in question marks for the 2024 Cleveland Browns. Let us take a gander at the four men heading to training camp as Cleveland Browns Quarterbacks, shall we? 

Deshaun Watson: Entering the pivotal third year of his five year fully guaranteed contract. Season Two was quite a mixed bag, as Watson seemed to battle injury issues almost from the start. In the five full games he started, the Browns went 4-1, which is good news, but he put up somewhat pedestrian numbers doing it. Watson threw for 1115 yards, seven touchdowns versus four interceptions, for a 'eh' 84.3 rating. He ended the season with an unreal second half of the game vs the Ravens to lead the Browns to an unprobable road win, but injured his shoulder in the process, ending his season. On November 21st, he underwent shoulder surgery, which he's still slowly coming back from. 

Jameis Winston: The former #1 overall pick of the 2015 NFL Draft, Winston played five seasons in Tampa Bay before moving on to New Orleans. He played for the Saints for four more seasons, starting ten games. His best season in New Orleans was 2021, where he went 5-2 in his seven starts with an impressive 14 touchdowns vs 3 interceptions. While it feels like he's been around forever, he just turned 30 at the beginning of the year. 

Tyler Huntley: The former Utah Ute signed as an undrafted free agent after the 2020 Draft with Baltimore. In his four seasons with the Ravens, he started nine games, as a decent fit in an offense built for the versatile Lamar Jackson. In his time in Baltimore, Huntley threw for 1957 yards (64% completion) 8 touchdowns/7 interceptions and also added 509 yards rushing and another three touchdowns. 

Dorian Thompson-Robinson:  A fifth round pick of the Browns 2023 Draft, DTR came to Cleveland with a ton of college experience, he had an astounding 48 college starts. Still, he was a fifth rounder for a reason, and was overwhelmed when forced into the starter role vs Baltimore when Watson was a late scratch, and the game got out of hand quickly. He later would start again for the Browns at home vs the Steelers, and while he didn't light up the boxscore, he managed the offense to a game-winning field goal. The next week he would get knocked out of the game with a concussion, starting the Joe Flacco era the next week. 

With such an important position, I obviously have some questions.

How confident are you that we will all get to see the "real" Deshaun Watson in 2024? Well slap my ass and call me an ugly woman, I'm not slow-playing this, am I? Well, let's see. Watson has looked, um, uncomfortable for so much of his Browns run. Yes, he was trending up when he suffered his season-ending injury (In his last three full games, he threw for 721 yards (68% comp), 5 touchdowns, 1 interception) but shoulder injuries and throwing athletes are a scary proposition. 

Will the Browns have an offense that fits Watson better than what he had in his first two seasons? Watson and Stefanski/Van Pelt have been an odd fit, IMO. You know how a lot of QBs really do well at the beginning of the games, when they are running the "scripted" plays? Watson with the Browns seemed to be at his worst at the beginnings of games, only to do better the farther he was from a organized game plan by Stefanski. Well, lo and behold, OC Todd Van Pelt was fired after the season, and Ken Dorsey was brought in. Dorsey worked with Josh Allen in the process of the young gunslinger transforming into a Pro Bowler, and it appears that Dorsey will call the plays now, taking the responsibility from Stefanski. I still contend Watson and Stefanski are a questionable fit, so I was fine with bringing in someone who hopefully is more experienced in the RPO that Watson thrived in. Rumors are that the offense looks very different than what was run last year.

So... how confident are you that we will get to see the "real" Deshaun Watson in 2024? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... We have an individual that has had his dirty laundry exposed to the world, is largely vilified throughout the country and in many respects his own fan base, who hasn't played in a system that really fits him while suffering a shoulder injury of all injuries. Color me skeptical. I mean, the guy was pretty damn amazing in his 2018-2020 seasons in Houston ( 12,840 yards passing, 85 touchdowns vs 28 interceptions). What I've laid out is a LOT for someone to overcome. And I've heard the "You won't even recognize the Browns offense!" cry last training camp too. 

Why did the Browns bring in Winston instead of bringing back Flacco? This move really puzzled me, especially considering the money spent was almost identical. Now that I've had some time, Winston is almost a decade younger, which might allow the Browns to bring him back for another season or two after this one year deal ends, in comparison to Flacco, who was on the verge of retiring before the Browns got him off his couch. Plus, with the Browns going all-in (allegedly) with a more RPO offense, Winston would make more sense than Flacco.

Is there a chance Tyler Huntley beats out Dorian Thompson-Robinson? Absolutely. The Browns were woefully prepared depth-wise at the QB position last season entering the season, and they seem hell-bent to make sure that if injuries happen, they'll have legitimate experienced backups. Winston and Huntley are a pretty good #2 and #3. DTR is well-liked by Browns fans it seems, but he was a fifth rounder for a reason. 

Could Quarterback be a position the Browns use their 2025 first round pick on? This is an incredibly pivotal season regarding the QB position with the Browns. If things go sideways with Watson this season, or even just mediocre again, the Browns are still on the hook for two more seasons after this one. I just don't know how they would manage drafting a first round QB with Watson still guaranteed for two more seasons, so I'll say no. 

Well I hope everyone enjoys this write-up, and what are your thoughts? Want to answer these questions, or do you have a bone to pick with something I came up with? Let's read your reactions! 

 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

On November 21st, he underwent shoulder injury,

Surgery.  (don't ya just hate when your brain does stuff like that?) 

Honestly, the more that I hear Watson talk, the more I think he's a dickhead.  ( FWIW,  which isn't much. )  What matters for the Browns, and to us, is whether he can play to a high level or not.  

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

when they are running the "scripted" plays? Watson with the Browns seemed to be at his worst at the beginnings of games, only to do better the farther he was from a organized game plan

Good observation.  He was fairly crappy early in games. 

The OC switch is an indication of how the organization is going full force to enhance the offense to Watson's liking in the hopes of him playing like the QB they had fantasized that he was.  And they've been trying to build a QB room in is image.  Flacco is not of that ilk.  He was only brought in because the guys that we decided to keep as backups were woefully bad.  The Front Office is not yet done though.  They've gotta get Amari Cooper extended somehow.  Watson needs that weapon.  And so does the rest of the receivers need Cooper drawing coverage.

Huntley & DTR beating one another out?  We can't let our starting QB job get that far down the depth chart.

QB in 2025?  Can anything be put past Jimmuh and his trigger finger?

[Flugel]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:09 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Well, we've made it through the offensive linemen, tight ends, running backs and wide receivers. Now, we dive in the most important position in all sports - the quarterbacks. This is a position that is a riddle wrapped up in intrigue, smothered in question marks for the 2024 Cleveland Browns. Let us take a gander at the four men heading to training camp as Cleveland Browns Quarterbacks, shall we? 

Deshaun Watson: Entering the pivotal third year of his five year fully guaranteed contract. Season Two was quite a mixed bag, as Watson seemed to battle injury issues almost from the start. In the five full games he started, the Browns went 4-1, which is good news, but he put up somewhat pedestrian numbers doing it. Watson threw for 1115 yards, seven touchdowns versus four interceptions, for a 'eh' 84.3 rating. He ended the season with an unreal second half of the game vs the Ravens to lead the Browns to an unprobable road win, but injured his shoulder in the process, ending his season. On November 21st, he underwent shoulder surgery, which he's still slowly coming back from. 

Jameis Winston: The former #1 overall pick of the 2015 NFL Draft, Winston played five seasons in Tampa Bay before moving on to New Orleans. He played for the Saints for four more seasons, starting ten games. His best season in New Orleans was 2021, where he went 5-2 in his seven starts with an impressive 14 touchdowns vs 3 interceptions. While it feels like he's been around forever, he just turned 30 at the beginning of the year. 

Tyler Huntley: The former Utah Ute signed as an undrafted free agent after the 2020 Draft with Baltimore. In his four seasons with the Ravens, he started nine games, as a decent fit in an offense built for the versatile Lamar Jackson. In his time in Baltimore, Huntley threw for 1957 yards (64% completion) 8 touchdowns/7 interceptions and also added 509 yards rushing and another three touchdowns. 

Dorian Thompson-Robinson:  A fifth round pick of the Browns 2023 Draft, DTR came to Cleveland with a ton of college experience, he had an astounding 48 college starts. Still, he was a fifth rounder for a reason, and was overwhelmed when forced into the starter role vs Baltimore when Watson was a late scratch, and the game got out of hand quickly. He later would start again for the Browns at home vs the Steelers, and while he didn't light up the boxscore, he managed the offense to a game-winning field goal. The next week he would get knocked out of the game with a concussion, starting the Joe Flacco era the next week. 

With such an important position, I obviously have some questions.

How confident are you that we will all get to see the "real" Deshaun Watson in 2024? Well slap my ass and call me an ugly woman, I'm not slow-playing this, am I? Well, let's see. Watson has looked, um, uncomfortable for so much of his Browns run. Yes, he was trending up when he suffered his season-ending injury (In his last three full games, he threw for 721 yards (68% comp), 5 touchdowns, 1 interception) but shoulder injuries and throwing athletes are a scary proposition. 

Will the Browns have an offense that fits Watson better than what he had in his first two seasons? Watson and Stefanski/Van Pelt have been an odd fit, IMO. You know how a lot of QBs really do well at the beginning of the games, when they are running the "scripted" plays? Watson with the Browns seemed to be at his worst at the beginnings of games, only to do better the farther he was from a organized game plan by Stefanski. Well, lo and behold, OC Todd Van Pelt was fired after the season, and Ken Dorsey was brought in. Dorsey worked with Josh Allen in the process of the young gunslinger transforming into a Pro Bowler, and it appears that Dorsey will call the plays now, taking the responsibility from Stefanski. I still contend Watson and Stefanski are a questionable fit, so I was fine with bringing in someone who hopefully is more experienced in the RPO that Watson thrived in. Rumors are that the offense looks very different than what was run last year.

So... how confident are you that we will get to see the "real" Deshaun Watson in 2024? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... We have an individual that has had his dirty laundry exposed to the world, is largely vilified throughout the country and in many respects his own fan base, who hasn't played in a system that really fits him while suffering a shoulder injury of all injuries. Color me skeptical. I mean, the guy was pretty damn amazing in his 2018-2020 seasons in Houston ( 12,840 yards passing, 85 touchdowns vs 28 interceptions). What I've laid out is a LOT for someone to overcome. And I've heard the "You won't even recognize the Browns offense!" cry last training camp too. 

Why did the Browns bring in Winston instead of bringing back Flacco? This move really puzzled me, especially considering the money spent was almost identical. Now that I've had some time, Winston is almost a decade younger, which might allow the Browns to bring him back for another season or two after this one year deal ends, in comparison to Flacco, who was on the verge of retiring before the Browns got him off his couch. Plus, with the Browns going all-in (allegedly) with a more RPO offense, Winston would make more sense than Flacco.

Is there a chance Tyler Huntley beats out Dorian Thompson-Robinson? Absolutely. The Browns were woefully prepared depth-wise at the QB position last season entering the season, and they seem hell-bent to make sure that if injuries happen, they'll have legitimate experienced backups. Winston and Huntley are a pretty good #2 and #3. DTR is well-liked by Browns fans it seems, but he was a fifth rounder for a reason. 

Could Quarterback be a position the Browns use their 2025 first round pick on? This is an incredibly pivotal season regarding the QB position with the Browns. If things go sideways with Watson this season, or even just mediocre again, the Browns are still on the hook for two more seasons after this one. I just don't know how they would manage drafting a first round QB with Watson still guaranteed for two more seasons, so I'll say no. 

Well I hope everyone enjoys this write-up, and what are your thoughts? Want to answer these questions, or do you have a bone to pick with something I came up with? Let's read your reactions! 

 

Accurate and thorough analysis - well done Dutch.  

I would LIKE to say it would be nice to see Watson play more than 5-6 games a year.  That said, a lot of our fans haven't been happy with his performance in his 1st 2 seasons.  It exceeds my pay grade to question why an organization would go after a QB without understanding the type of offense they want him performing in.  Film study anyone?  We're still hiring new offensive coaches in 2023 and 2024.

You did touch on something that makes me still think we can see the guy that led Houston to the playoffs with the improvement/momentum generated the more starts he got.  When he took over in 2022, the Browns were 4-7.  The winning percentage improved when he got behind center with the team finishing 3-3 in those.  There was bound to be rust that year.  Last year?  The comeback victory AT Baltimore and he decisive win vrs TN - reminded me of the guy I think Watson can be (based on what he's been capable of in the past). 

We have to have to be just as healthy and efficient protecting the edges as we are from Guard to Guard.  If we want quick releases from the QB - we're going to need to Elijah Moore to be who the Browns thought he'd be.  Njoku had his best season so let's hope he's just as focused.  Amari Cooper's best asset is his route precision so I'll look for that to continue.  That should leave newcomer Jerry Jeudy with some favorable matchups to exploit.  We shall see...

Anything else?  Oh yeah, SLIDE!

Edited June 26 by Flugel
Corrected last name to Moore

[Orion]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Oh yeah, SLIDE!

Thank You!  I forgot to beat that horse. 

[Flugel]

48 minutes ago, Orion said:

Thank You!  I forgot to beat that horse. 

🤣  No worries.  Are we sleep walking ourselves into a perfect nickname for the QB we're counting on?

[Orion]

...more like 'colLIDE'.

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, Orion said:

...more like 'colLIDE'.

Kind of like someone that had too much to drink at a happy hour or tailgate party trying to pronounce Clyde.   That'll work just fine...

[Orion]

49 minutes ago, Flugel said:

That'll work just fine...

Yup.  Instead of yelling SLIDE when he's running up the field we'll all yell  COLLIDE!    

[AP1]

I've worn some out with my feelings of DW so I'll stay out of the ditch.

DW - We all want to see the DW who knocked off the mighty Alabama Crimson Tide and led the Texans to two straight AFCS Titles. If he plays to that level the Browns can win the Super Bowl. Whether he fits the scheme or the coach, I think Jimmy Haslam tried to hit a home run for the fans. For all of Haslam's shortcomings, I can appreciate his effort. 

JW - We've all seen what he can do - good and bad. I would have loved to have Flacco back. I don't think the FO wanted that looming over DW's shoulder. Some thought Jacoby Brissett might be brought back. If it was purely analytics, JW's age makes him the best choice.

Huntley and DTR need to be ready and stay ready. I'm thankful for DTR and PJ Walker filling in as best they could last season. The craziness of the Browns injury script in 2023 was unbelievable. 

1. The FO has slowly whittled away any excuse DW could make. I hope he shows his appreciation for their efforts by having the best season of his career. I am confident. I hope he's confident.

2. I don't think the coaching staff or DW have any choice BUT to fit the gameplan to DW's strengths. Chubb's exact return is unknown. The season will start as DW's offense.

3. DW's success this season is up to DW.

4. As stated above, they did not want the stadium calling for Flacco the second DW made a mistake.

5. I'm for having 4-5 capable QBs going into camp. Huntley can most certainly beat out DTR.

6. It's always diligent to be on the lookout for the next franchise QB.  The Packers have proven drafting a QB as an understudy works. I'm not sure what the next contract for DW looks like. I guess none of us do, we've never really experienced what comes after the $45M-$50M/year contracts. If they're still producing, these guys are going to command similar numbers. If they're not, I'm assuming they're going to take the highest pay day, but I'm not sure how teams will scale those numbers.

***It's being reported that owners are discussing a separate QB Salary Cap.***

In 2024, DW will be the 7th highest paid player in the NFL.

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, AP1 said:

I've worn some out with my feelings of DW so I'll stay out of the ditch.

DW - We all want to see the DW who knocked off the mighty Alabama Crimson Tide and led the Texans to two straight AFCS Titles. If he plays to that level the Browns can win the Super Bowl. Whether he fits the scheme or the coach, I think Jimmy Haslam tried to hit a home run for the fans. For all of Haslam's shortcomings, I can appreciate his effort. 

JW - We've all seen what he can do - good and bad. I would have loved to have Flacco back. I don't think the FO wanted that looming over DW's shoulder. Some thought Jacoby Brissett might be brought back. If it was purely analytics, JW's age makes him the best choice.

Huntley and DTR need to be ready and stay ready. I'm thankful for DTR and PJ Walker filling in as best they could last season. The craziness of the Browns injury script in 2023 was unbelievable. 

1. The FO has slowly whittled away any excuse DW could make. I hope he shows his appreciation for their efforts by having the best season of his career. I am confident. I hope he's confident.

2. I don't think the coaching staff or DW have any choice BUT to fit the gameplan to DW's strengths. Chubb's exact return is unknown. The season will start as DW's offense.

3. DW's success this season is up to DW.

4. As stated above, they did not want the stadium calling for Flacco the second DW made a mistake.

5. I'm for having 4-5 capable QBs going into camp. Huntley can most certainly beat out DTR.

6. It's always diligent to be on the lookout for the next franchise QB.  The Packers have proven drafting a QB as an understudy works. I'm not sure what the next contract for DW looks like. I guess none of us do, we've never really experienced what comes after the $45M-$50M/year contracts. If they're still producing, these guys are going to command similar numbers. If they're not, I'm assuming they're going to take the highest pay day, but I'm not sure how teams will scale those numbers.

***It's being reported that owners are discussing a separate QB Salary Cap.***

In 2024, DW will be the 7th highest paid player in the NFL.

Well said! 

Counting Clemson, this is the 3rd football team that REALLY wanted Watson to be their QB.  The 1st 2 football teams didn't seem to have the intensified brain strain on how to set him up to succeed with the skill set they specifically added him to their programs for.  In other words, they didn't just know they wanted him - they knew why they wanted him.  Inevitably, he was pretty much instant success the moment he started. 

Cleveland, on the other hand, knew they needed him or they wouldn't have guaranteed him 68 million $ and given up multiple draft picks inclusive of 3 first round picks. Unlike a GB Packers franchise, Cleveland has had trouble identifying why they invested in their current QB of the future.  Okay, you wanted him but waited until after his 1st season here to start adjusting your playbook and offensive coaching staff to things that might work?  He still went 3-3 with that when the team was 4-7 the 1st time he took the field hoping to shake off a lot of rust. 

So where does all that leave us?  Welcome Ken Dorsey for season #3 with Watson. Unfortunately for Ken Dorsey, will any of these OTs coming off IR (Conklin, Jones, Wills) be ready for duty on the edges?  If so, at what percent of their pre-injury ability?  In addition, we also have an elite RB trying to make his way back to being the same player he was pre-injury.  It's a REAL bad time for all these concerns.  The ONLY guy this organization kicked out of here was Cheesecakes; but were staying patient to see if the Tin Man at Left Tackle discovers he does have a football heart very conveniently in the final season of his contract.  As much as we all like the talent we saw in our Rookie RT from Ohio State - rumor had it Bill Callahan was really pissed he showed up to training camp so out of shape that he spent the 1st 2-3 days or so balancing puking with bed rest.  

Again, I like seeing Green Bay mentioned with their QBs because that franchise has always had a philosophy from the ownership and FO all the way down to the coaches and even the Broom Closet Coordinator.  The last 2 QBs they drafted to be their long term starter got a "Welcome to GB!  We're looking forward to you starting for us in a few years."  They knew what they wanted; and there was plenty of time to be patient.  That said, they weren't firing Offensive Coordinators and Head Coaches all the time to teach then deprogram, rinse and repeat.  The whole set-up is there before the QB even gets drafted.  Same with SF right?  

Anyone watch Steve Young play QB when he played for Tampa Bay?  Anyone see that same guy when he took over for Joe Montana in SF?  If that example sucks, anyone see Doug Williams when he played for Tampa Bay?  Anyone see Doug Williams when he started for Joe Gibbs in Washington?  The difference?  They went to a well established system vrs the trial and error frequently they endured in a place looking for a philosophy and it's appropriate system fit.

All that to say, Stefanski has been named NFL Coach of the Year twice in his 4 years here so he's not the problem. When you can win 11 games with 5 different QBs counting on a 3rd string RT and a 2nd string LT (unemployed until Wills got injured) - that's some great problem solving/first aid.  For an owner that came here as a minority owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers - he never learned that ownership family since the early 70s set their program up for success with a philosophy.  I've shown the stats for Terry Bradshaw's 1st 5-6 years so patience was a big part of that development while they continued acing all their drafts with guys that fit their philosophy.  While I understand Jimmy wants to win and he'll pay the money needed - without a philosophy?  We're still trying to find the suitable offensive system for a QB they really, really really wanted.  It just would have been nice if those behind the decision specifically knew WHY they wanted him so a system would have been in tact.  A philosophy at the top makes for healthier consumer decisions.  Right now (heading into year #3), we're talking about the symptoms of why we're still trying to find the right offense for Jimmy's 68 million $ man.   At Clemson and Houston he was the man driving them to playoffs in very compatible systems for his skillset.  In Cleveland, he was just 1 of 5 QBs while the #1 rated Defense was an enormous help in steering this team to 11 wins.   

Other theories some of our fans share is that Watson is no longer that committed player he once was now that he's been guaranteed huge money.  If they're reading all my blowhard above - that doesn't mean I don't GET their concerns that Watson needs to be accountable too. I share those concerns as well.  When we have to yell SLIDE to Collide - is he looking for ways not to play for all that guaranteed cake?  I can't argue with anyone thinking that or worrying about it...

 

[AP1]

@Flugelfortunately the concerns you listed above and many of us have has been alleviated by AB and KS each signing extensions. 1986-1989 has been the hey day of the Browns in the Super Bowl Era, and we now have the most franchise stability in four decades. 

[Dutch Oven]

I'm not saying anyone here is saying this, but are there really people out there saying that the reason Watson isn't sliding and has taken on defenders is because he's literally trying to get hurt so he doesn't have to actually play?

I mean, I've read some really bad takes, but that is a doozy. Somehow, if other QBs we've had in the past put his head down and tried to run a defender over, I feel that a good portion of this fan base would cream their collective pants and wax poetic about how that QB is a "TRUE FOOTBALL PLAYER WHO IS BLUE COLLAR TOUGH JUST LIKE CLEVELAND IS"! That QB would have adjectives attached to him like "gritty" and "hard-nosed". 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

a good portion of this fan base would cream their collective pants and wax poetic about how that QB is a "TRUE FOOTBALL PLAYER WHO IS BLUE COLLAR TOUGH JUST LIKE CLEVELAND IS"! That QB would have adjectives attached to him like "gritty" and "hard-nosed". 

Like Joe Kapp or somethin.  

Now-A-Days, with the price paid for a QB of supposed superior talent, you can't afford to get the guy hurt.  Let's face it.  We paid three 1st round picks (and other picks) and a quarter of a billion dollars guaranteed.  There's too much invested.  We had people holding their breath when he collided with a 2nd baseman in a softball game.

...and it only 'looks like' he is trying to get himself injured on purpose.    

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, Orion said:

Like Joe Kapp or somethin.  

Now-A-Days, with the price paid for a QB of supposed superior talent, you can't afford to get the guy hurt.  Let's face it.  We paid three 1st round picks (and other picks) and a quarter of a billion dollars guaranteed.  There's too much invested.  We had people holding their breath when he collided with a 2nd baseman in a softball game.

...and it only 'looks like' he is trying to get himself injured on purpose.    

Absolutely. 

I totally understand that a QB needs to protect himself at all costs, considering how much of the salary cap a veteran starting QB takes up.

But to say he's literally trying to get himself hurt so he doesn't have to play is just an incredibly dumb take. Like dumb take reserved for a certain dark corner of this message board dumb. 

But I still contend that for certain QBs, even today, they would be commended for doing the same thing. They'd be heralded as "blue-collar, gritty and scrappy. A real man's man."  Oh well, it is what it is. 

[syd]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

looks like' he is trying to get himself injured on purpose

when  did nickers hack  your account Vette ?

[Orion]

53 minutes ago, syd said:

when  did nickers hack  your account Vette ?

  I know that he's not trying to get hurt on purpose so that he can have operations, go through rehab and hold a clipboard while being paid.  But really, what makes him think that he should be taking on tacklers?  Does he think that it's his job to do that?  If so, then he needs to be tutored.  We have guys that are supposed to fight for extra yards.  They're called receivers and running backs.  The starting QB is 'important on another level' important to the team / organization.  If he gets hurt, the team literally goes into the shitter.  How we won some games last year with our dumpster fire at QB is truly amazing.  

I understand that many teams use their franchise QB to get yardage with his legs.  But I don't think that it's smart.  I want my QB to play like John Elway.  Stay in the play and try to get the ball passed.  Run as a last resort, or if the seas part and you have open field in front of you...but get down in advance of any chance of contact.  

[syd]

3 minutes ago, Orion said:

I know that he's not trying to get hurt on purpose

of course I knew that. But it was something that person would have said. I feel he knows the weight of his contract and feels he needs to live up to it. And not only that I believe that he is sick of all the doubter's and really wants to prove them wrong.

[Orion]

1 hour ago, syd said:

I feel he knows the weight of his contract and feels he needs to live up to it. And not only that I believe that he is sick of all the doubter's and really wants to prove them wrong.

...I still want my QB to play  'smart'  football.  

He got hurt taking on tacklers while we were up pretty good on the scoreboard.  That ruined our Super Bowl chances.  It could've ruined his career.  So, OK...that's over.  But has he or the HC learned from that?  We'll see.

[Flugel]

7 minutes ago, Orion said:

...I still want my QB to play  'smart'  football.  

He got hurt taking on tacklers while we were up pretty good on the scoreboard.  That ruined our Super Bowl chances.  It could've ruined his career.  So, OK...that's over.  But has he or the HC learned from that?  We'll see.

Precisely!  

[Ibleedbrown]

Great write up and good meat in the replies. 

I’m concerned about Watson, it’s a unique shoulder injury he sustained. Little track record on post success which l think prompted the signing of Winston and Huntley. 

I think the Browns are taking the best approach they can. 3 guys with significant playing time who have seen some success plus DTR, the wild card.  

I figure Watson will be scrutinized, might even play in a preseason game or 2. If it’s apparent he doesn’t have it, they’ll find the hot hand. It’s sort of an unspoken QB competition year. 

[AP1]

58 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

If it’s apparent he doesn’t have it, they’ll find the hot hand. It’s sort of an unspoken QB competition year. 

I believe this to be 100% accurate. 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Absolutely. 

I totally understand that a QB needs to protect himself at all costs, considering how much of the salary cap a veteran starting QB takes up.

But to say he's literally trying to get himself hurt so he doesn't have to play is just an incredibly dumb take. Like dumb take reserved for a certain dark corner of this message board dumb. 

But I still contend that for certain QBs, even today, they would be commended for doing the same thing. They'd be heralded as "blue-collar, gritty and scrappy. A real man's man."  Oh well, it is what it is. 

🤣 That stuff in bold above had me laughing so hard it felt like I did 300 crunches at warped speed. 

I didn't mean to take us down this path in the last paragraph of my reply to @AP1 when I asked: When we have to yell SLIDE to Collide (Watson) - is he looking for ways not to play for all that guaranteed cake?  I can't argue with anyone thinking that or worrying about it...  Having said that, there are people thinking that or worrying about it.  My guess is most of them are haters that are going to pull out character rationale to justify their hatred.  IMO, that pedigree needs/wants themselves the almighty told you so to the extent they are rooting for it.  Arguing with them only gives them a stage.  However, there is a fine line of those worried that if Watson doesn't get his game back to where it used to be really soon - the mental frustration, mounting pressure and rapid loss of fan support doesn't make my question in bolded italics far fetched at all.  These are people that want him to succeed for their favorite team.  It's way easier to respect their opinion or difference of opinion in my opinion. Key word in that sentence 'opinion.' 

[Flugel]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:31 PM, Orion said:

  I know that he's not trying to get hurt on purpose so that he can have operations, go through rehab and hold a clipboard while being paid.  But really, what makes him think that he should be taking on tacklers?  Does he think that it's his job to do that?  If so, then he needs to be tutored.  We have guys that are supposed to fight for extra yards.  They're called receivers and running backs.  The starting QB is 'important on another level' important to the team / organization.  If he gets hurt, the team literally goes into the shitter.  How we won some games last year with our dumpster fire at QB is truly amazing.  

I understand that many teams use their franchise QB to get yardage with his legs.  But I don't think that it's smart.  I want my QB to play like John Elway.  Stay in the play and try to get the ball passed.  Run as a last resort, or if the seas part and you have open field in front of you...but get down in advance of any chance of contact.  

I hear ya!  If I was his QB Coach - aside from that being a disaster; I would make sure he sees 1 video like this per day. I would bully his subconscious until it's conscious. BTW, I can tell the West Virginia QB is no longer Major Harris. 

 

[Orion]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

I hear ya!  If I was his.....

Last year Stef came out in support of Watson saying stuff like, That's how he plays the game!  100% effort.  Which is a nice sentiment.  But it's outdated when it comes to QB's running with the ball.  They came out with this rule a while back so that the QB can give himself up and slide.  At which point nobody can hit him.  And over the years they've come up with other rules to try and protect the QB.  These rules were thunk up because the NFL noticed that they were having a problem.  Marque teams were going straight into the shitter because their QB's were getting injured.  The NFL was changing rules for DB's so that receivers could catch more passes and thus more offense and more scoring.  But really that just increased the importance of the QB even more.  

The QB has always been the most important guy in a football organization.  Our last championship came because the QB, Frank Ryan, threw 3 TD passes.  And championships before that were from Otto Graham.  Ryan wasn't as good as Graham...thus just the one championship, while having the better RB (Jim Brown).  Bart Star & Johnny Unitas combined for 9 championships.  Sid Luckman & Joe Montana combined for 8.  Brady, of course, 7 championships.  

The QB is the most important player in any team sport that I can think of.  They've enacted rules designed specifically to protect this 'most important' player.  USE THEM!  I don't wanna hear the coach say, That's how he plays the game.  100% effort.  Fuck No.  Let's use 100% SMARTS!  The league came up with the slide rule because they know how 100% screwed you are if your QB gets hurt.  Why have our guys just plain Not Understood that?  I mean, do they need a brick shithouse to fall on them?  Is it not unlike using your Queen to plod around the chessboard trying to kill pawns?  

 

[ballpeen]

Not to get in to Watson.  I think we all know the status of that.  I'll just say I think he can be a top tier QB.

 

After that, I think we are solid with Winston and Huntley in the back-up roles. I don't think we could do much better in that department.  I will say that Robinson could be kept as the 3rd QB.  I think Huntley could be used as trade bait if some other team deems it necessary to bring in more help at QB. Huntley is more of a back-up QB than a 3rd QB.

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Not to get in to Watson.  I think we all know the status of that.  I'll just say I think he can be a top tier QB.

Really? 

I mean, I hope you are right. I hope he gets back to his 2018-2020 form, when he was easily a top 5 NFL QB. But man, three seasons have come and gone, he's still hated throughout the NFL (and a sizable portion of the Browns fanbase), he's coming off a throwing shoulder injury and we'll see if the Browns have actually made the offense fit his skill-set. 

We'll see soon enough, but I'm not optimistic we'll ever see THAT Watson again. 

[ballpeen]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Really? 

I mean, I hope you are right. I hope he gets back to his 2018-2020 form, when he was easily a top 5 NFL QB. But man, three seasons have come and gone, he's still hated throughout the NFL (and a sizable portion of the Browns fanbase), he's coming off a throwing shoulder injury and we'll see if the Browns have actually made the offense fit his skill-set. 

We'll see soon enough, but I'm not optimistic we'll ever see THAT Watson again. 

I think the hate factor is overblown.  I don't think most fans care anymore.  The loudest doesn't make a majority.

 

Only 2 seasons have passed.  The first was the suspension season and last season was derailed with an injury.

[Dutch Oven]

12 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I think the hate factor is overblown.  I don't think most fans care anymore.  The loudest doesn't make a majority.

 

Only 2 seasons have passed.  The first was the suspension season and last season was derailed with an injury.

Three seasons have passed since his last really good season in 2020.

He sat out 2021 trying to get traded from Houston. He got traded to the Browns prior to the 2022 season, sat out 11 games via the suspension, then played the final six. Started six games last season. 

[ballpeen]

I don't care about seasons he had elsewhere.  I am commenting on him being a Brown's player.

[Orion]

On 7/20/2024 at 9:35 AM, Dutch Oven said:

he's still hated throughout the NFL (and a sizable portion of the Browns fanbase)

Sure he's hated in Houston...but I don't know how much the rest of the NFL gives him a 2nd thought anymore.  As for the Browns fans that don't like him / hate him, it's up to them to find a way through this.  Perhaps they take a hiatus from the Browns / football until his time in Cleveland is over.  Me, I don't particularly like him.  And I've played team sports with a guy (or 2) that I didn't particularly like...but that means nothing when you're playing the game.  At that point it's more like war...and they're on your side.  And even if you don't like him, if he's good, you don't want him traded.

Having said that, if the guy doesn't play well (or just plain stinks), then that's a different way to 'not like him'.  And if that's the case then I don't care if the guy is Tim Tebow (an honest to God good guy), I'd want him off the team.