Judicial Watch legal follow-up on the murder of Ashley Babbit.

[Neo]

1 hour ago, VaporTrail said:

I'm going to side with Neo on this one. In a vacuum, was Babbitt a threat to anyone? Not really. Unfortunately, she put herself at the front of a mob that was trespassing on federal property. Mobs are incredibly unpredictable and can easily turn a normal situation into a dangerous one. If you're a cop tasked with defending people inside the building, and you see a large group of them breaking down your barricade, I think you can safely argue that you are at risk of being overwhelmed and having your gun used against you. Did he need to shoot her? No. Did she need to break into the Capitol? No. She demonstrated no regard for her own life by placing herself in at the front of a mob and overrunning a fortress filled with armed guards.  

THANK YOU. Very level headed post. What was the guy supposed to do? He had a duty to protect the people inside the building and an angry mob was trying to break down the door, he was probably shitting his pants. 

I'm sure the guy knew they (cops) where losing control and were severely outnumbered. 

[Canton Dawg]

7 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Let me put it this way. I don't see much of a difference between the people calling Ashli Babbitt a martyr and the people calling George Floyd a martyr. Both of these groups of people are completely downplaying those individuals' lack of personal responsibility which ultimately resulted in their deaths.

As for your hypothetical, you and I know damn well how it would be different. I don't really care about the racial angle of it. I'm quite sick of every topic being pigeonholed into that oppressor/oppressed framework for the past decade. 

 I’m glad you brought up George Floyd….great parallels there as well. 

[Westside Steve]

9 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Let me put it this way. I don't see much of a difference between the people calling Ashli Babbitt a martyr and the people calling George Floyd a martyr. Both of these groups of people are completely downplaying those individuals' lack of personal responsibility which ultimately resulted in their deaths.

As for your hypothetical, you and I know damn well how it would be different. I don't really care about the racial angle of it. I'm quite sick of every topic being pigeonholed into that oppressor/oppressed framework for the past decade. 

Of course there are some differences. I'm sure you can see them. First of all Derek Chauvin is sitting in jail for the rest of his life. He accidentally killed George Floyd. So there's that. Number two if your position is that breaking and entering the Capitol building justifies being shot down, that would mean that you and Neo would have no problem with the capital police massacring every protester inside the building?

Without any name calling or hyperbole, I would find that hard to believe.

Then again if you're trying to equate the two instances I have yet to see billions of dollars of destruction and dead police officers and or innocent civilians as the result of Ashley Babbitt protests.

WSS

[Neo]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

breaking and entering

Except this isn't a simple B&E. These people had the intent to harm members of the government and were attacking law enforcement officers. I'm sure it came over the radio that they were being overwhelmed and officers were being crushed inside doors. 

Maybe Putin should nuke us because our society is fucked if we can't even agree on Ashley babbit was killed because she was a part of a mob attacking the Capitol building where they were certifying election results. The VP was in the building. Seriously, maybe we should hit reset if this is even a debate. Our society is totally fucked.

[calfoxwc]

baloney. Leftists have entered fed buildings.

https://thefederalist.com › 2022 › 01 › 07 › 8-times-left-wing-protesters-broke-into-government-buildings-and-assaulted-democracy

8 Times Left-Wing Protesters Assaulted Government Buildings

Jan 7, 20224. Portland Federal Courthouse Overtaken by Violence. The federal courthouse in Portland has been a repeated target of violent Antifa rioters. In July 2020, a mob began setting fires inside the ...

 

*****************************************

    all this defense of shooting an unarmed protester? Either you defenders of her murder believe that all those lefties should have been shot......

or, your arguments are just belligerent political oppostion.

[FY56]

19 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Let me put it this way. I don't see much of a difference between the people calling Ashli Babbitt a martyr and the people calling George Floyd a martyr. Both of these groups of people are completely downplaying those individuals' lack of personal responsibility which ultimately resulted in their deaths.

As for your hypothetical, you and I know damn well how it would be different. I don't really care about the racial angle of it. I'm quite sick of every topic being pigeonholed into that oppressor/oppressed framework for the past decade. 

I figured you to be a pretty smart guy...Neo not so much.

The very definition of a martyr is a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.

Ask yourself these questions

What were Ashley Babbitt's beliefs? 

What were Georg Floyd' beliefs?

As a conservative its pretty easy to assume what Babbitts beliefs were. What did Floyd die for? Floyds only purpose in life was to be nothing other than a thug. 

This is the delusional, make-believe world we now live in... being imposed on rational people by leftist extremism.  George Floyd is a martyr, Bruce Jenner is a hero, men can have babies, there are 141 genders, men competing in womens sports, Obama is our Lord and Saviour...

 

[FairHooker11]

Floyd actually killed himself.. toxicology shown that. Babbitt was murdered. And the murderer is free. 

[JAFBF]

4 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

Floyd actually killed himself.. toxicology shown that. Babbitt was murdered. And the murderer is free. 

Total thug.

 

Attacked/threatened a pregnant women with her/child's life, plus multiple other crimes   .   .   .   thug, zero sympathy save that for his lost soul serving the wrong side.

 

BLM supporting this farce themselves coming out too be nothing but a $ grubbing farce themselves in this whole sham.

 

MSM is so complicit in this it's not even funny - enjoying watching their downfall as their continuous lies are exposed over and over and over and . . .

 

 

[Westside Steve]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:59 PM, Neo said:

Seriously, maybe we should hit reset if this is even a debate. Our society is totally fucked.

Our society, what's left of it, is totally fucked; on that simple statement I agree with you.

If I'm lucky I've got another 15 years to put up with this crap. I don't have kids I don't give much of a shit about anybody else's. Especially the children of the liberals; they deserve what they'll get.  The difference between shining city on a hill and third world shithole is measured in decades  not eons.

By the way whenever I see blm/antifa riots there's always that little feral part of me that would like to see the cops just mow them down. Fortunately (maybe) the part of me that's traveled a few feet further down the road of civilization would never make that call if it came down to it. I see not everybody is on the same page on that issue.

(I'm guessing you and Vapor are too young to really remember Kent State but that mob was on their way to burn down the ROTC building. Does your 'got what they deserved' mantra apply to that situation as well?)

WSS

 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

40 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

(I'm guessing you and Vapor are too young to really remember Kent State but that mob was on their way to burn down the ROTC building. Does your 'got what they deserved' mantra apply to that situation as well?)

Hey, but Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young got a hit out of it.

[VaporTrail]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:40 AM, Westside Steve said:

Of course there are some differences. I'm sure you can see them. First of all Derek Chauvin is sitting in jail for the rest of his life. He accidentally killed George Floyd. So there's that. Number two if your position is that breaking and entering the Capitol building justifies being shot down, that would mean that you and Neo would have no problem with the capital police massacring every protester inside the building?

Without any name calling or hyperbole, I would find that hard to believe.

Then again if you're trying to equate the two instances I have yet to see billions of dollars of destruction and dead police officers and or innocent civilians as the result of Ashley Babbitt protests.

WSS

On 10/14/2022 at 6:08 AM, Canton Dawg said:

 I’m glad you brought up George Floyd….great parallels there as well. 

You guys are arguing about public reaction to said events. I'm not talking about that because I'm in agreement with you on the double standard that the media and politicians had for each of them. I am simply arguing that these two individuals each poked a bear, and that no one should be surprised that they ended up dead. Personally, I find it hard to feel sorry for either of them. 

[JAFBF]

There's a video that just popped out showing that she was directing people away from trouble areas.

 

Lost in the shuffle for now, sure it will pop up again.

 

 

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

You guys are arguing about public reaction to said events. I'm not talking about that because I'm in agreement with you on the double standard that the media and politicians had for each of them. I am simply arguing that these two individuals each poked a bear, and that no one should be surprised that they ended up dead. Personally, I find it hard to feel sorry for either of them. 

I'm not talking about public reaction, that's a given and the news coverage is unfortunately a given as well. Simply talking about someone being gunned down in cold blood who was not a threat to anyone. Didn't even make an aggressive move or act in a threatening manner. That's where I draw the line regardless of the political intent of the protester. The policeman just wanted to shoot somebody. My Kent State analogy is valid.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

On 10/16/2022 at 6:51 AM, Westside Steve said:

Our society, what's left of it, is totally fucked; on that simple statement I agree with you.

If I'm lucky I've got another 15 years to put up with this crap. I don't have kids I don't give much of a shit about anybody else's. Especially the children of the liberals; they deserve what they'll get.  The difference between shining city on a hill and third world shithole is measured in decades  not eons.

By the way whenever I see blm/antifa riots there's always that little feral part of me that would like to see the cops just mow them down. Fortunately (maybe) the part of me that's traveled a few feet further down the road of civilization would never make that call if it came down to it. I see not everybody is on the same page on that issue.

(I'm guessing you and Vapor are too young to really remember Kent State but that mob was on their way to burn down the ROTC building. Does your 'got what they deserved' mantra apply to that situation as well?)

WSS

 

I was there on may 4th. After the ROTC building burned down, protesters were taunting national guardsmen who were their same age, all over campus. Those protesters wanted to "change the world" and "burn Amerika down".

From jerry rubin, a lefty leader of those riots and protests - he said "you cannot be free until you kill your parents".

That was not even popular among the protesters. and jane traitor fonda - blabbering stupid garbage.

All in all, we learned over the next two years - is that they were happy to hate in a fake hell raising party.

[VaporTrail]

17 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I'm not talking about public reaction, that's a given and the news coverage is unfortunately a given as well. Simply talking about someone being gunned down in cold blood who was not a threat to anyone. Didn't even make an aggressive move or act in a threatening manner. That's where I draw the line regardless of the political intent of the protester. The policeman just wanted to shoot somebody. My Kent State analogy is valid.

WSS

On 10/14/2022 at 12:59 PM, Neo said:

These people had the intent to harm members of the government and were attacking law enforcement officers.

Steve, you're treating the girl's actions as if she was the sole person there and that the cop wasn't outnumbered by 20 protestors trying to break through a barricaded door. Will you admit that a cop in this situation could feel justifiably threatened?

Neo, likewise, I think it's hyperbole to suggest that anything more than a small number of the mob had the intent to harm anyone. 

[Canton Dawg]

6 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Steve, you're treating the girl's actions as if she was the sole person there and that the cop wasn't outnumbered by 20 protestors trying to break through a barricaded door. Will you admit that a cop in this situation could feel justifiably threatened?

Neo, likewise, I think it's hyperbole to suggest that anything more than a small number of the mob had the intent to harm anyone. 

If I were the cop I wouldn’t have felt threatened knowing I had a gun and at least 5 armed Capital Police officers on the other side of the door.
 

This screenshot was taken about 2 seconds after Babbitt was shot.

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Steve, you're treating the girl's actions as if she was the sole person there and that the cop wasn't outnumbered by 20 protestors trying to break through a barricaded door. Will you admit that a cop in this situation could feel justifiably threatened?

I guess anybody could make a case for the officer being in fear of his life. I would think that in any other situation he would need to at least defend the notion that of all the protesters she was the one that needed killing. If not he's randomly firing into the crowd.

 

WSS

(Also if I had anything to do with the investigation and if the supposed chant of hang Mike Pence was part of the defense I would like to know at what point that chant began and if the officer reasonably could have heard it and assumed she was on her way to Lynch the vice president.)

[VaporTrail]

On 10/19/2022 at 6:35 AM, Canton Dawg said:

If I were the cop I wouldn’t have felt threatened knowing I had a gun and at least 5 armed Capital Police officers on the other side of the door.
 

This screenshot was taken about 2 seconds after Babbitt was shot.

 

You can have adequate support and still feel threatened. All it takes is one bozo out of 20 to have a high-power laser, and these cops could be blinded for life. 

 

Here's a shot from the BLM riots. Anyone standing between the cops and the guys with laser pointers is an accomplice to assault. In any mob situation, I'll have more sympathy for a cop with an itchy trigger finger than I will for the idiots, such as Babbitt, who create a standoff situation with them. 

On 10/19/2022 at 7:16 AM, Westside Steve said:

I guess anybody could make a case for the officer being in fear of his life. I would think that in any other situation he would need to at least defend the notion that of all the protesters she was the one that needed killing. If not he's randomly firing into the crowd.

She was the first one over the barrier they set up. That's why she was targeted.

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, VaporTrail said:

 

She was the first one over the barrier they set up. That's why she was targeted.

As you wish. I think we've probably exhausted the discussion. As much as I hate BLM and antifa I would hope that if push came to shove I wouldn't be the guy to order to shoot down unarmed protesters.

( regardless of the media and justice department reaction which is the larger problem for the country)

WSS 

[calfoxwc]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:32 AM, VaporTrail said:

She was the first one over the barrier they set up. That's why she was targeted.

true, but there were no laser pointers. There was zero threat. The officer who shot her would be in solitary confinement if he had shot a blm or antifa member....

based on this gov's corrupt partisan application of law.

[Neo]

This thread is bad on so many levels and it gets worse the deeper you look at it, so perverse. Shameful, absolutely shameful. You are disgusting people.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

This thread is bad on so many levels and it gets worse the deeper you look at it, so perverse. Shameful, absolutely shameful. You are disgusting people.

[nickers]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:49 PM, Neo said:

This thread is bad on so many levels and it gets worse the deeper you look at it, so perverse. Shameful, absolutely shameful. You are disgusting people.

You are a diseased commie!

[Neo]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

You are a diseased commie!

I'm a commie because I think someone was not murdered??

[Neo]

On 10/23/2022 at 5:01 PM, calfoxwc said:

You're an analog clock with no face because at least a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Westside Steve]

11 hours ago, Neo said:

I'm a commie because I think someone was not murdered??

Not every hypocritical obnoxious contrarian asshole is a commie.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

 

[Neo]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:28 PM, FY56 said:

As a conservative

 

13 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Not every hypocritical obnoxious contrarian asshole is a commie.

A conservative starts a thread who believe in law & order, who supports the police, who are advocates of self defense, and who are advocates of the 2nd amendment, now wants to crucify an officer for doing his duty and protecting people in the building including the Vice President who the violent mob just outside the door are calling for his hanging.

The douchebag known as  FY56 who is also a piece of shit conservative said the following to me in another thread "You libtard cultists have never been known take personal responsibility for your own fuckups" So when you do start holding Ashley Babbit accoutable for her actions? She had a choice, NO? If she stayed outside she might be alive today.

The only thing you twat waffles care about is screaming at the other side on how right you think you are and don't care what someone else has to say if it doesn't benefit team MAGA. DO this world a favor and go the way of the dodo, the world will thank you.

[nickers]

17 minutes ago, Neo said:

 

A conservative starts a thread who believe in law & order, who supports the police, who are advocates of self defense, and who are advocates of the 2nd amendment, now wants to crucify an officer for doing his duty and protecting people in the building including the Vice President who the violent mob just outside the door are calling for his hanging.

The douchebag known as  FY56 who is also a piece of shit conservative said the following to me in another thread "You libtard cultists have never been known take personal responsibility for your own fuckups" So when you do start holding Ashley Babbit accoutable for her actions? She had a choice, NO? If she stayed outside she might be alive today.

The only thing you twat waffles care about is screaming at the other side on how right you think you are and don't care what someone else has to say if it doesn't benefit team MAGA. DO this world a favor and go the way of the dodo, the world will thank you.

Um no... Thats what you Libtards do.. Libtards are NASTY people with very little in the way of morals...