Tale of the Tape - Browns @ Panthers

[calfoxwc]

10 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

You lost me way at the top and then you made my head spin when you put McAdoo doo and brilliant in the same sentence.  He does have far more experience…running franchises into the ground 

Perhaps you lost yourself. A good compass and knowing how to use it is a great skill if you are lost.

Meanwhile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McAdoo

"

McAdoo coached tight ends and offensive tackles at Stanford for the 2005 spring camp, then resigned to be assistant offensive line and quality control coach for the San Francisco 49ers, reuniting with Mike McCarthy.^[4][3] In 2006, McCarthy became head coach for the Green Bay Packers and added McAdoo to his staff as tight ends coach.^[3] McAdoo coached tight ends for the Packers until the 2011 season, and then coached quarterbacks from 2012 to 2013. McAdoo was a member of the coaching staff of the 2010 Packers team that won Super Bowl XLV.^[4]

New York Giants

Offensive coordinator (2014–2015)

In 2014, McAdoo joined Tom Coughlin’s staff as the offensive coordinator for the New York Giants.^[5] In his first season as offensive coordinator, the Giants offense improved from the 28th-highest-scoring offense in 2013 under Kevin Gilbride to 13th in 2014. In 2015, the offense took another leap forward, becoming the sixth-highest-scoring offense despite losing starting left tackle Will Beatty, starting wide receiver Victor Cruz, and starting tight end Larry Donnell for most of the season due to injury. "

***************************************************

See? McAdoo joined the giants in 2014 as OC. In only ONE YEAR, he raised the offense to 13th highest scoring offense, FROM where they were the previous season, which was 28th. So, in his SECOND year, the offense went to SIXTH highest scoring offense,

and btw, again, he lost his starting LT, starting WR, and starting TE.

So, going from 28th to sixth in two seasons, was bad?

Yes, he had a bunch of struggles with injuries and player scandals etc etc.

I wouldn't underestimate Ben McAdoo's influence at all - don't bet big money on the browns - or you may end up feeling like "doo doo"

 

 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Perhaps you lost yourself. A good compass and knowing how to use it is a great skill if you are lost.

Meanwhile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McAdoo

"

McAdoo coached tight ends and offensive tackles at Stanford for the 2005 spring camp, then resigned to be assistant offensive line and quality control coach for the San Francisco 49ers, reuniting with Mike McCarthy.^[4][3] In 2006, McCarthy became head coach for the Green Bay Packers and added McAdoo to his staff as tight ends coach.^[3] McAdoo coached tight ends for the Packers until the 2011 season, and then coached quarterbacks from 2012 to 2013. McAdoo was a member of the coaching staff of the 2010 Packers team that won Super Bowl XLV.^[4]

New York Giants

Offensive coordinator (2014–2015)

In 2014, McAdoo joined Tom Coughlin’s staff as the offensive coordinator for the New York Giants.^[5] In his first season as offensive coordinator, the Giants offense improved from the 28th-highest-scoring offense in 2013 under Kevin Gilbride to 13th in 2014. In 2015, the offense took another leap forward, becoming the sixth-highest-scoring offense despite losing starting left tackle Will Beatty, starting wide receiver Victor Cruz, and starting tight end Larry Donnell for most of the season due to injury. "

***************************************************

See? McAdoo joined the giants in 2014 as OC. In only ONE YEAR, he raised the offense to 13th highest scoring offense, FROM where they were the previous season, which was 28th. So, in his SECOND year, the offense went to SIXTH highest scoring offense,

and btw, again, he lost his starting LT, starting WR, and starting TE.

So, going from 28th to sixth in two seasons, was bad?

Yes, he had a bunch of struggles with injuries and player scandals etc etc.

I wouldn't underestimate Ben McAdoo's influence at all - don't bet big money on the browns - or you may end up feeling like "doo doo"

 

 

So he’s a good TE coach.  Got it. 
 

Wildly out of place as a HC but inherited a good Tom Coughlin system. 
 

Anything on his accolades post Obama administration? 

[calfoxwc]

32 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

So he’s a good TE coach.  Got it. 
 

Wildly out of place as a HC but inherited a good Tom Coughlin system. 
 

Anything on his accolades post Obama administration? 

what part of "New York Giants

Offensive coordinator (2014–2015)

"In 2014, McAdoo joined Tom Coughlin’s staff as the offensive coordinator for the New York Giants.^[5] In his first season as offensive coordinator, the Giants offense improved from the 28th-highest-scoring offense in 2013 under Kevin Gilbride to 13th in 2014." 

Did you fail to understand. He wasn't TE coach, he was the offensive coordinator.

 

 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

So he’s a good TE coach.  Got it. 
 

Wildly out of place as a HC but inherited a good Tom Coughlin system. 
 

Anything on his accolades post Obama administration? 

 

 McAdoo has shown to have a good offensive mind.  Even in his limited sample size, his work with the Gmen as a coordinator was solid.  Also helps the NFC East was an absolute dumpster fire save for the Dallas Oline.  

 Listening to his commentary and some of their camps, sounds very "west-coast" in their terminology.  Formations, route tags, passing selection.   A lot of 3 and 5 step stuff from the gun.   Things Baker has both excelled and struggled with when he gets too locked in pre-snap.    So a lot of Carolina's success will depend on McAdoo and their current QB coach getting Mayfield's eyes to the right places presnap, understanding his looks, then processing changes post snap.    An advantage I've mentioned that Woods and the Browns hold.     So if the Browns are going to be zone happy, they need to make sure there's a lot of rotation in those zones.  Further helps to frustrate a QB who is learning new verbiage, getting chemistry with a whole new set of receivers, is working more from the gun and is behind a below average OL.

 I would expect some improvement from the Panthers this year just based on new personnel additions.  But will they take a Gmen type leap from 28th to top 10?  Not likely.

 

edit: McAdoo is also a terrible talented evaluator.  By reports, he loved Matt Corral from Ole Miss...   kid won't be ready for NFL action until year 3 at the earliest, that's even without having an injury.

[Browns57]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:35 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Or use the George Costanza model. If every instinct in your being tells you to bet a certain way and every time you have done that you have been wrong, then obviously you must do the opposite. 😁

 

I am absolutely on board with this take. I am taking the Browns to beat the opening game curse and win the game. To do so we will need to stop the run bette rthan we did in the preseason. I think our defense carries us. We haven't seen all of our defensive stars on the field since last season. The idea of Emerson and Ward on the field at the same time with the rest of that secondary is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year. 

I am also banking on Brissett not being as bad as everybody seems to think he is. I watched him play quite a bit when he was starting for Indy and I thought he did fairly well with a bad o-line. I expect him to play fairly well for us. But if he doesn't Stefanski better not leave him in like he did with Baker last year. If we can go 7-4 over the first 11 we have a really good playoff shot. I think it is unlikely that we do. But I am believing the opposite will happen this year in the first game and many others. Our good drafting of the last few years will pay dividends (well maybe not Swartz).

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 McAdoo has shown to have a good offensive mind.  Even in his limited sample size, his work with the Gmen as a coordinator was solid.  Also helps the NFC East was an absolute dumpster fire save for the Dallas Oline.  

 Listening to his commentary and some of their camps, sounds very "west-coast" in their terminology.  Formations, route tags, passing selection.   A lot of 3 and 5 step stuff from the gun.   Things Baker has both excelled and struggled with when he gets too locked in pre-snap.    So a lot of Carolina's success will depend on McAdoo and their current QB coach getting Mayfield's eyes to the right places presnap, understanding his looks, then processing changes post snap.    An advantage I've mentioned that Woods and the Browns hold.     So if the Browns are going to be zone happy, they need to make sure there's a lot of rotation in those zones.  Further helps to frustrate a QB who is learning new verbiage, getting chemistry with a whole new set of receivers, is working more from the gun and is behind a below average OL.

 I would expect some improvement from the Panthers this year just based on new personnel additions.  But will they take a Gmen type leap from 28th to top 10?  Not likely.

 

edit: McAdoo is also a terrible talented evaluator.  By reports, he loved Matt Corral from Ole Miss...   kid won't be ready for NFL action until year 3 at the earliest, that's even without having an injury.

I have watched probably 80% of Giants games the past decade. He took a solid organization and turned it upside down.  He was forced to relinquish play calling duties toward the end of his tenure I think at one point he their offense was last in league. 

Not just a bad talent evaluator he’s a great alienator 

Ask giants fans if  brilliant and his name belong in the same sentence 

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I have watched probably 80% of Giants games the past decade. He took a solid organization and turned it upside down.  He was forced to relinquish play calling duties toward the end of his tenure I think at one point he their offense was last in league. 

Not just a bad talent evaluator he’s a great alienator 

Ask giants fans if  brilliant and his name belong in the same sentence 

 

I'm not arguing in favor of the man being a decent head coach... he isn't.  

But when only focused on the duties of playcaller and QB coach, he has found some success in this league.    Remains to be seen if he can do that in Carolina, but we know it was within his capability in NY.

[SdBacker80]

9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

I'm not arguing in favor of the man being a decent head coach... he isn't.  

But when only focused on the duties of playcaller and QB coach, he has found some success in this league.    Remains to be seen if he can do that in Carolina, but we know it was within his capability in NY.

I’m talking about his play calling role with the Giants That he had to give up to keep his job as a HC and his influence on the Giants offense ultimately lead to his demise. 
 

His only professional stop in my knowledge that he called plays and exerted a true influence over an offense until now.

 

[tiamat63]

13 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’m talking about his play calling role with the Giants That he had to give up to keep his job as a HC and his influence on the Giants offense ultimately lead to his demise. 
 

His only professional stop in my knowledge that he called plays and exerted a true influence over an offense until now.

 

 

 There are a solid amount of examples of play callers who simply can't balance effective playcalling while being a head coach.  Pat Shurmur is one such example, and one I use because of his previous ties to Cleveland AND the NYG.   Good offensive mind and a pretty decent offensive coordinator.  Trash head coach and his offensive play calling went out the window when he had to balance the full role.    

Some minds just aren't equipped to compartmentalize themselves for such tasks.

 

And as I type this, late money has come in on the Browns, making it a PK game by most books.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 There are a solid amount of examples of play callers who simply can't balance effective playcalling while being a head coach.  Pat Shurmur is one such example, and one I use because of his previous ties to Cleveland AND the NYG.   Good offensive mind and a pretty decent offensive coordinator.  Trash head coach and his offensive play calling went out the window when he had to balance the full role.    

Some minds just aren't equipped to compartmentalize themselves for such tasks.

 

And as I type this, late money has come in on the Browns, making it a PK game by most books.

Absolutely…and Shurmur inherited worse with the Giants and had the stench of a sinking ship when he took over. 

let’s pump the brakes on a Macadoodoo as an o coordinator until we can review his second opportunity as an OC which starts Sunday.  He hasn’t had one in a long time…why?  and had just one with one team in a short span. 
 

You are describing Norv Turner above…MULTIPLE solid to great performance as an offensive coordinator but couldn’t hack it or should I say didn’t live up to lofty expectations as the head guy.  Norv was a better “players coach” though and admittedly had some good personnel to work with over the years 
 

Great on the Browns line and fortunate if you locked in at +2.  Later Money usually smarter money or is that just horse racing? 

[tiamat63]

17 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

 

Great on the Browns line and fortunate if you locked in at +2.  Later Money usually smarter money or is that just horse racing? 

Depends on expected health.  Locking in favorable lines early is great if the injury report is clean.   Lock in something too early, then things change on Friday or Saturday and you could be fucked.

I haven't touched the game itself yet.  The Under is too low for my liking, even in this matchup.   Probably should have just bought the .5 point and went in on CLE at +3.   Figured that later money would end up on the Browns though, which is why I mentioned Vegas cashing in early on the Baker hype and the Browns opening day woes. 

[SdBacker80]

43 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Depends on expected health.  Locking in favorable lines early is great if the injury report is clean.   Lock in something too early, then things change on Friday or Saturday and you could be fucked.

I haven't touched the game itself yet.  The Under is too low for my liking, even in this matchup.   Probably should have just bought the .5 point and went in on CLE at +3.   Figured that later money would end up on the Browns though, which is why I mentioned Vegas cashing in early on the Baker hype and the Browns opening day woes. 

Rain and thunderstorms for Sunday right during game time.  The under might be the way to go.

[mjp28]

8 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Rain and thunderstorms for Sunday right during game time.  The under might be the way to go.

I've been really busy this week, haven't even had time to check out the lines.....that's a first for me.

I just beat the clock to get into a fan favorite  Survival !  contest......and I still don't like Thursday Night Football,  screws up a lot of people's football clock.

But ZERO chance of that changing  and......

GO BROWNS  !       Oh yes.    

[SdBacker80]

Greedy to the IR.  Makes drafting a guy like Emmerson very important. 

[calfoxwc]

8 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Greedy to the IR.  Makes drafting a guy like Emmerson very important. 

on special teams.  He doesn't have cb speed. Too bad about Greedy.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mj-emerson/3200454d-4540-4215-97fb-3728b8869883

Prospect Grade

5.80

Average backup or special-teamer

 

[SdBacker80]

39 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

on special teams.  He doesn't have cb speed. Too bad about Greedy.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mj-emerson/3200454d-4540-4215-97fb-3728b8869883

Prospect Grade

5.80

Average backup or special-teamer

 

I dunno.  He showcased well against SEC WRs last season.  He had some moments in preseason too. 
 

I’m partial to bigger corners that will hold up in November and December when we see teams like Pitt and Baltimore that one to get physical 

[Orion]

This is of course, bad news.  But when I checked the Browns site I saw that it's a hamstring and thought, wow, that's a pretty bad hamstring!  But then I read that players can come off IR in as little as 4 weeks.  

They brought up Herm Miller from the PS.  Hopefully they can keep him on the bench.  I wasn't overly impressed with him in preseason.  But, I really didn't get to see a whole lot of the preseason games.

[Unsympathetic]

Greedy to IR makes me think his second contract offer will be pretty low if at all.. simply not enough games played.  But we did know this going in.. Decent value at the pick but availability is the best ability and all that.  Can't believe this is his contract year already

[gumby73]

I don't think Joe Woods cares much about unofficial depth charts.. AJ Green/Emerson vs Greedy Williams seems fairly equal imo.. We bring up PS Herb Miller.. which gives Woods a 2 year NB/Slot defender to back-up/ or could kick Newsome II outside to a match-up of Woods choice.. PS CB Shawn Jolly was their only option left.. CB Levert Hill was released from IR with a injury settlement early this week..

edit--I'm packed & ready to go.. 4 hour drive to Charlotte hotel by 4pm Saturday.. rain or shine !

[tiamat63]

35 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

 We bring up PS Herb Miller.. 

 

If Miller is anywhere on the field, I would literally draw up every play I have targeting him on every single down.  He just does not look good at all.

[jcam222]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:00 PM, gumby73 said:

What most non-local media whiffs on? is not talking enough about the Panthers overall #2 ranked defense of last season.. 

The Panthers lead the league in net passing yards per game (173.7 yards), they're fourth in the league in third-down percentage allowed (33.1 percent) and tied for fourth in the league in sacks (27).

But they're still somewhat susceptible to teams who want to body them up and run the ball, the way the Cowboys and Vikings did. They rank 12th in the league in rushing yards allowed per game (107.0), numbers that got out of whack in a few games. The Cowboys ran for 245, the Vikings 198, and the Patriots 151. In half of their games, they've held opponents to fewer than 82 rushing yards, and under 50 three times.

 DT Derrick Brown left the last preseason game with an oblique injury << good news if* he's limited.. the only major Panthers loss on a good defense from last season? Haason Reddick is now a Eagle

The Browns defense will need good LB/DB play Sunday with McCaffrey catching Baker's underneath dink passes..I'd almost prefer Woods shading a quicker Jacob Phillips/JOK combo to shade McCaffery over the slower lateral movements of A. Walker jr... I'd even bang Emerson into McCaffery if he splits outside.. Our Safety group better come ready to swarm tackle     

Agreed..He does not look ready for the outside corner bend that 95 brings.. call the holds zebras..

Hopefully Baker throws those his typical 100mph lol 

[FairHooker11]

 

[gumby73]

9 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

If Miller is anywhere on the field, I would literally draw up every play I have targeting him on every single down.  He just does not look good at all.

Oh I agree !  but,

I'm not so sure they wood Inactivate Herb Miller as our only emergency 5th cornerback left for this game?  we can hope he's inactive 

If Woods III (limited/hammy) becomes inactive? I'd question why WR/KR Mike Harley was not brought up from PS instead of H. Miller..

That list should start with QB Kellen Mond on it.. the other 6 names might get interesting..

[Vambo]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiT09PMjU_b/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=1d416e35-b3c3-47e8-9b8e-c1664065ca00

 

Nick Chubb speaks in Batman-inspired hype video

[Kvoethe]

Not gonna lie...I hope we win, but i want a good Baker FU to Haslem.

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Vambo said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiT09PMjU_b/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=1d416e35-b3c3-47e8-9b8e-c1664065ca00

 

Nick Chubb speaks in Batman-inspired hype video

Cool.  I love Nick Chubb.  I hope he's able to stay healthy all year and gets to lead the league in rushing.  He's the type of guy that deserves that honor at least once in his life.

[Orion]

WR Michael Woods II (illness, hamstring) was downgraded to out for Sunday's game.

So we'll be fielding 4 WR's because Woods is out with a sick hamstring.

[calfoxwc]

this is funny and cool at the same time:

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2022/09/07/panthers-qb-baker-mayfield-revenge-browns/

"So if Mayfield isn’t looking for revenge this weekend, then what is he looking for . . . ?

“A big hug from Nicholas Chubb would be a really, really good gift,” he said when asked if he’s excited to embrace his old teammates on the field. “Just to hear him say a word would also be nice . . . the mime that he is.”

Perhaps Mayfield (and Chubb) will save their words for when the game actually starts."

[jiggins7919]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:01 PM, calfoxwc said:

It's going to be a great game to watch - so tough to predict, so many questions.

I think it's going to be a terrible game to watch if the last weather forecast I saw is accurate. "Rain, with a good chance of heavy rain." Yeah...no thank you. That means ugly, awful, slippery and up for anyone to take. But you know what. Who cares?! It's football season! 

[jiggins7919]

15 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

 

"3rd and 37".

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣