Watson Suspended for 11 Games and Fined $5 Million / and a bit OT and back.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, FY56 said:

What's your opinion on this. Not my words, got it from another site.

if the NFLPA sues then Watson plays this year BUT...

If I were Watson, I wouldn't allow the NFLPA sue. If that happens, then the whole process goes to litigation with an injunction on any decision and Watson will be allowed to play pending the outcome. The league can then toll the decision until after the end of the 2022 season, at which time Watson’s suspension could include a fine on his 2023 salary ($40+ million), instead of his 2022 $58k per game check.

Yup, Watson will 100% take any lumps this year when by comparison his 2022 salary is peanuts compared to 2023...  If he was suspended this entire season, he's only out $1 million...  Next year, if he's only suspended 6 games that number jumps up to around $14 million.   

44 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

100% agree. I believe the entire penalty structure needs to be changed to financial only. I say that when it’s “conduct detrimental” not for actual criminal convictions. Game suspensions penalize far to many innocents including teammates and fans. Secondly the definition needs to be far less subjective and the entire process needs to be independent of the league office. 

If you read Robinson's report... she said exactly that- there were NO clear definitions that the NFL went by in making their determinations of Watson's misbehavior... OTOH, they made it up on the fly.... 

And FWIW Mr. Patriots owner Bobbie Kraft... You somehow think Deshaun deserves more punishment, but somehow you figure getting caught red-handed visiting a house of prostitution isn't "conduct detrimental to the image of the NFL"? And you got away with it.  Maybe since they retroactively want to change the rules for DW, they can retroactively fine Kraft about a million or two and suspend him for 1\2 the season.....  However, Rodger the Dodger knows who signs his paychecks, fat chance of THAT ever happening.    

[gumby73]

29 minutes ago, hoorta said:

 If you read Robinson's report... she said exactly that- there were NO clear definitions that the NFL went by in making their determinations of Watson's misbehavior... OTOH, they made it up on the fly....  

I don't believe Robinson should have qualified to be judging game suspensions nor fines..Turning this back to a single NFL choice has to go also...

Robinson than agreed to follow by the NFLPA's request of past suspension findings of players.. (instead of NFLPA owners claims..they were used as Sue's pawns)  ...   

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

As I posted in Steve's thread... The NFLPA  is going to come out with guns blazing in Court.... You (the NFL) want to put the hammer down on Deshaun, but Bob Kraft is caught on camera visiting a prostitute, and crickets?  Suspend him for an equal number of games.  

 

In the first place it's two different issues. A prostitutes job is to suck your weiner. A massage therapists job is to rub your back. A prostitute isn't likely to be offended if you jerk off on them. A massage therapist or a barista or a Dollar General Clerk possibly will.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:39 PM, SdBacker80 said:

I see four teams that can beat themselves even if we aren’t functioning well.
 

1 team that we can bludgeon between the tackles. 

and 1 team that is extremely well coached and probably not going to make a lot of mistakes.

 

As to your first statement I guess if Watson had only beaten himself we wouldn't be having this problem.

WSS 

[mjp28]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

Too bad The Gipper isn't around anymore to comment... Robinson had to use the NFL's version of what "violence" is, not the legal version of one. You can read the report of what was considered "violence", I'm not going to repeat it here. However, for it to be "indecent exposure" it has to be in public, but I'm not a lawyer.    Yeah, it wasn't just a "massage" it was thinly veiled prostitution. But how many other NFL players have visited The Chicken Ranch or it's equivalent multiple times in the past?

And this reeks of nth degree hypocrisy Mr. Kraft.. You got off scot free... 

 

Wow the entire league and not just Cleveland  ?

Do you agree ?  Even coming from Kraft.  

[hoorta]

17 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

In the first place it's two different issues. A prostitutes job is to suck your weiner. A massage therapists job is to rub your back. A prostitute isn't likely to be offended if you jerk off on them. A massage therapist or a barista or a Dollar General Clerk possibly will.

WSS

Not really Steve.. Part of the NFL's case against DW was conduct besmirching the  "Shield". Kraft certainly did. But him and the other owners sign Goodell's pay checks. Double standard there. 

[hoorta]

13 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Wow the entire league and not just Cleveland  ?

Do you agree ?  Even coming from Kraft.  

Right now, it is what it is. Stay tuned in for the continuing soap opera " The Days of Deshaun Watson ". 

[FY56]

2 hours ago, jcam222 said:

My wife recognizes it for what it is. Gold digging and woke mob frenzy. 

Gold digging yeah, but I'm not seeing the woke mob thing.

What I'm also not seeing is the "me too" crowd showing up to support these female therapists. 

[laiccm]

So the league has bowed to the media crying last 2 days. If I'm the Union...GAME ON...I'm playing Watson game 1. I wish the same media members had the same energy for Kraft(WHO HAD A VIDEO), Snyder, Jerry Jones, Texans FO....

[Korsou Dawg]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

In the first place it's two different issues. A prostitutes job is to suck your weiner. A massage therapists job is to rub your back. A prostitute isn't likely to be offended if you jerk off on them. A massage therapist or a barista or a Dollar General Clerk possibly will.

WSS

In addition to what @hoortasaid, soliciting prostitution is actually a crime in Florida, whereas whatever DW is accused of is so far from a crime, Grand Juries won't even start a trail.  

[Unsympathetic]

6 hours ago, FY56 said:

I'm not seeing the woke mob

That's because it's not a thing.  It's just word salad added to something else which is tangible.  If there's "A Mob" that mob is present because of a policy dispute or historical event which is real.  It has no specific definition because "woke" is Whatever The Person Saying It Dislikes.

"Woke" is something stupid people say.. it's a value-free and meaning-free term that wastes both space and time.

 

It's the adult equivalent of the 4th grade insult "I'm not stupid, You're stupid."

 

I'd ask people to have the self-respect to stop using that word, but that's an insult to the people on this forum who have no self-respect.

[Westside Steve]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Not really Steve.. Part of the NFL's case against DW was conduct besmirching the  "Shield". Kraft certainly did. But him and the other owners sign Goodell's pay checks. Double standard there. 

That much is true. But the two situations are apples and oranges. Actually the Dan Snyder case is closer because he actually did have women filing complaints. They did come down on the Dolphins.

WSS

[gumby73]

cluster 💩 storm..

Several groups believe now that a Texas star like Watson should have never had his grand jury cases heard in the Houston area of Texas 🤠 

Yesterday..  the "race to the courthouse" started at 4 PM

 

 

 Robinson than gets railroaded, by using the NFL's past suspension standard train-wrecks of players in past 

 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/03/deshaun-watson-appeal-will-proceed-on-paper-only-with-no-hearing/

Now let's do what Rodger wants...

It's time to turn the channel on not hearing whats next for me.. 

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

In addition to what @hoortasaid, soliciting prostitution is actually a crime in Florida, whereas whatever DW is accused of is so far from a crime, Grand Juries won't even start a trail.  

Only because it's he said she said. I don't know what the illegal tapes showed with the Bob Kraft affair. Neither do you. If they have him on tape offering money and accepting the b****** that's one thing. Speaking of illegal, entrapment isn't one of the Hallmarks of the American justice system either.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

https://www.aol.com/nfl-warned-deshaun-watsons-suspension-030239558.html

It was a revelation that arbitrator Sue L. Robinson delivered, sources said. It instantly established an eyebrow-raising blow to the NFL’s effort to impose a l...

wSS

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

That's because it's not a thing.  It's just word salad added to something else which is tangible.  If there's "A Mob" that mob is present because of a policy dispute or historical event which is real.  It has no specific definition because "woke" is Whatever The Person Saying It Dislikes.

"Woke" is something stupid people say.. it's a value-free and meaning-free term that wastes both space and time.

 

It's the adult equivalent of the 4th grade insult "I'm not stupid, You're stupid."

 

I'd ask people to have the self-respect to stop using that word, but that's an insult to the people on this forum who have no self-respect.

It's used because folks like the person who said this are being told all day, every day, that the shit they disagree with is "woke culture". It's absolutely insane how much it's used in the news folks like that listen to and it clearly works.

Anywho-I don't think I'm going to disagree that this process is stupid. The fact that Goddell has the power over an arbitrator, let alone one who is a federal judge, is insane. I strongly disagree with her opinion, but that should have been the end of it for better or for worse. But, that doesn't mean what the NFL is saying is untrue. This is according to them the "most egregious" violation of the conduct policy in NFL history, and I'm inclined to agree. I could see a world where they bargain for 12 games to show 'good faith' that they will work with the NFLPA and somewhat respect the arbitrator, but I doubt it. It seems evident they want to make an example out of Watson, and I can't argue that they shouldn't. 

There's no more debate to be had with any of you if you think 25+ women formed a cabal to railroad a dude for strictly money. All I can say is go listen to some Bill Cosby standup and watch a Harvery Weinstein film with your fingers in your ears.

[FY56]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

That's because it's not a thing.  It's just word salad added to something else which is tangible.  If there's "A Mob" that mob is present because of a policy dispute or historical event which is real.  It has no specific definition because "woke" is Whatever The Person Saying It Dislikes.

"Woke" is something stupid people say.. it's a value-free and meaning-free term that wastes both space and time.

 

It's the adult equivalent of the 4th grade insult "I'm not stupid, You're stupid."

 

I'd ask people to have the self-respect to stop using that word, but that's an insult to the people on this forum who have no self-respect.

Agree, Woke is something stupid people say, as in #staywoke, actually an old term brought back to life and used exclusively by the stupidity on the left side of the aisle.  Anyone else using it is only to mock.

Again, I don't see the woke crowd coming to Watsons aid. No whining about "racism" or him being discriminated against.

 

 

[jcam222]

39 minutes ago, FY56 said:

Agree, Woke is something stupid people say, as in #staywoke, actually an old term brought back to life and used exclusively by the stupidity on the left side of the aisle.  Anyone else using it is only to mock.

Again, I don't see the woke crowd coming to Watsons aid. No whining about "racism" or him being discriminated against.

 

 

Your judging everyone using the term “woke”  as stupid is hypocritical. There are plenty of folks on the left and some on the other side who embrace and own the term woke for themselves.  That said perhaps it’s the wrong term to use here. Call it anything you like but the click bait media sensationalism and the me too crowd jumping on the bandwagon disregarding facts  are continuing to escalate this. It truly is mob frenzy. 

[FY56]

6 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

Your judging everyone using the term “woke”  as stupid is hypocritical. There are plenty of folks on the left and some on the other side who embrace and own the term woke for themselves.  Whether you call it woke or mob mentality this crowd along with click bait media sensationalism are continuing to escalate this. 

Just some on the other side embrace woke? Then they're stupid too, which obviously doesn't qualify me as hypocritical. The woke culture is of the left, by the left, and for the left.  It seems to me being more a case of you being in denial than of me being hypocritical.

I agree with your take media sensationalism and click bait. The media been the root for much of the discord we have today.

[jcam222]

3 minutes ago, FY56 said:

Just some on the other side embrace woke? Then they're stupid too, which obviously doesn't qualify me as hypocritical. The woke culture is of the left, by the left, and for the left.  It seems to me being more a case of you being in denial than of me being hypocritical.

I agree with your take media sensationalism and click bait. The media been the root for much of the discord we have today.

Overall I think we agree what is going on with the outcry in the Watson situation. Our disagreement lies in the word woke and I can respect you don’t like or agree with the term or how I’ve applied it. I haven’t and won’t call you or others stupid because we disagree. I think it’s no less wrong to directly call someone stupid when their opinion differs than it is to call a broader group “woke”. 

[crstphr2]

Watson loses 1 million dollars in salary if he is suspended the entire season this year.

 

Watson loses 1.5 million plus for EACH GAME if he files an injunction and drags this out until next year.

 

No judge will rule against the CBA.  It is negotiated and agreed upon by both parties.

 

CBA says basically that both parties could appeal to Goodell and he will use the facts from the case by Sue Robinson.  She clearly found him "guilty" of violating the Personal Conduct Policy.  Also, the NFL will say Watson's actions are unprecedented.

Worst thing Watson and NFLPA can do is appeal in federal court and get an injunction.  He will lose a ton more money.

[D Bone]

Ahhhh, the Browns. Can't we go back to talking about 1-31, Pilot Flying J  or the real Browns playing in Baltimore? (that last one's for you Gip) 

[laiccm]

Welp, he will be playing game 1....the NFLPA will now sue, injunction, then Discovery and the league will fold just like with kapernick because they don't want to give their text, emails...etc. The judge will probably be super angry the NFL brought this case to them because there's already been 2 grand juries and a retired federal judge they had an agreement with. 

[Canton Dawg]

Congratulations Roger, you managed to make a system look more foolish than Congress.

Take a bow douchebag.

[crstphr2]

35 minutes ago, laiccm said:

Welp, he will be playing game 1....the NFLPA will now sue, injunction, then Discovery and the league will fold just like with kapernick because they don't want to give their text, emails...etc. The judge will probably be super angry the NFL brought this case to them because there's already been 2 grand juries and a retired federal judge they had an agreement with. 

The NFLPA did not appeal the 6 game suspension.

So the debate is for week 7 this year or week 1 next year.

[hoorta]

51 minutes ago, laiccm said:

Welp, he will be playing game 1....the NFLPA will now sue, injunction, then Discovery and the league will fold just like with kapernick because they don't want to give their text, emails...etc. The judge will probably be super angry the NFL brought this case to them because there's already been 2 grand juries and a retired federal judge they had an agreement with. 

I love gumby's comment that the NFL threw their agreed upon arbiter Sue Robinson under the bus... Because they didn't like her decision. 

As I opined earlier in this thread, Goodell & the NFL had better appoint someone not affiliated with the league to hear their appeal, if they don't- in some quarters it's going to be viewed as a Kangaroo Court hellbent on imposing whatever punishment they wanted to meet out on Watson in the first place.

Anything significantly more- say 12 games or a humongous fine will certainly be challenged in Federal Court by the NFLPA. 

[hoorta]

On 8/1/2022 at 3:08 PM, mjp28 said:

Some of the women's groups are not happy or satisfied with this ruling in this case or the NFL's stance on penalties involving the treatment of women. 

This might  not be 100% over involving some of the women involved in this and other cases.

We'll see what if anything happens next.   

We know what happened.  Media pressure from some commentators and outraged women's groups that the punishment was insufficient, and the socially conscious NFL couldn't fold fast enough. Ban the scumbag for life!!! Don't try and tell me that the NFL doesn't bend over backwards trying to engage women who might be vaguely interested in football. The pink Critical Catch thing is just one example.  

[Unsympathetic]

3 hours ago, jcam222 said:

I think it’s no less wrong to directly call someone stupid when their opinion differs than it is to call a broader group “woke”

Thank you for agreeing to end your use of the word "woke" .

 

35 minutes ago, hoorta said:

in some quarters it's going to be viewed as a Kangaroo Court

Not quite a Kangaroo Court.. A Woke Court!  It was a long way to go but we finally got there.  I'll see myself out. 

The ridiculous part is that anything resembling a long suspension will definitely go to federal court - and discovery will be a female dog, hopefully as positive for NFLPA as alex jones, who will now be immortalized as a law school case study in perjury.  Probably wouldn't appeal if it was 7 or 8 but I'd pull the cord even at 9.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.aol.com/nfl-warned-deshaun-watsons-suspension-030239558.html

It was a revelation that arbitrator Sue L. Robinson delivered, sources said. It instantly established an eyebrow-raising blow to the NFL’s effort to impose a l...

wSS

Read the article Steve. If the person hearing the appeal gives the NFL exactly what they've wanted all along, it's see you in Court.  I would hope that there would be some room for compromise, like a couple extra games and a  $5 million fine. 

[Osiris]

20 hours ago, hoorta said:

Any lawyers out there?  It will probably start with an injunction being filed against the NFL to go pound salt.  I'll use a dirty word in this Forum "Political"...  What I've learned in my adventures in that sphere, the defense (in this case the NFLPA) can use a process called "discovery"... You can bet the ranch the player's association will drag up all the shit that the above owners (who are supposed to be held to a higher standard) got away with essentially scot free...  I have NO doubts the NFLPA's lawyers are already working overtime at producing a mountain of paperwork that will take a judge weeks to wade through.  

It's still possible that Watson and the NFL reach an agreement before anything goes to court, what you've posted certainly gives the NFL motivation to do so. From what I heard on a podcast, the NFL's minimum was 12 games + fines and Watson's maximum was 8 games. Maybe they just split the difference and agree to 10 games + a smaller fine than what the NFL wanted.

20 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Wow. So the commissioner doesn't want to honor the CBA he signed off on. 

Media pressure, particularly from profootballtalk.com, drove this. I think it makes Goodell look weak as hell 

Our world just keeps on getting crazier, & it's not a good thing.

Sadly, the CBA allowed for the NFL (and the NFLPA) to appeal the ruling made by the independent judge. The NFLPA tried to make it so NFL could make the initial ruling but any appeal would go to the independent judge (as it is in MLB) but they wouldn't agree to that.