Watson Suspended for 11 Games and Fined $5 Million / and a bit OT and back.

[Dutch Oven]

7 minutes ago, Orion said:

If I were an owner, and Roger GoToHell disregarded what Sue Robinson had ruled and upped the penalty, I'd have to ask, "Then what the hell are we paying Robinson for!?"

Even if the player has an owner who gave him a fully guaranteed contract, which as a fellow owner you want nothing to do with?

I bet you might think differently, in that hypothetical situation. 

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Even if....

What.  My question is something you wouldn't ask?  If you were an owner?  I mean, put aside what you think about Haslem.  You wouldn't be asking your buddies, "So then, why did we bring in that chick judge?"    I mean, I can picture the Steelers front office after they hear that GoToHell changed the suspension to a full season, "Yeah!!!  Fuck them Browns!!!  But...not for nothin' guys, what's that Robinson chick good for?"  

[Vambo]

Ruling on Deshaun Watson was Never Going to be Satisfying

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/unsatisfying-deshaun-watson-ruling

 

The only guarantee with a resolution to Deshaun Watson's investigation by the NFL is it would be unsatisfying, dispiriting. Coming up with an adequate punishment for a series of charges with little proof was an impossible needle to thread, but the league was once again exposed for how ill equipped they are to deal with violence and mistreatment of women, despite countless opportunities to form a policy.   Sports leagues are never going to be an effective substitute for the criminal justice system and even though they are operating based on the preponderance of evidence as opposed to innocent until proven guilty, it was a system fraught with problems before Watson getting to the NFL was a consideration...

 

...Vague guidelines allow the league to protect its owners while being able to punish players inconsistently and often more harshly. In this case, it came back to haunt them. The same rules that enabled them to avoid any meaningful punishment for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, caught on camera soliciting prostitution in Florida, allowed Robinson to default to the same punishment for Watson as Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekiel Elliott despite 24 women accusing him of sexual assault and misconduct.

The NFL has allowed Washington Commanders owner Daniel Snyder to operate almost with impunity despite accusations that have been piling up for a decade which includes sexual assault. Until the league is willing to put pen to paper on a real policy that outlines punishments for both players and owners, they will continue to get what they view as unsatisfying results in cases like Watson.

[FY56]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

I see your points, but I respectfully disagree.  The NFL "may" try to lengthen the suspension to appease certain women's groups that would want nothing less than a  lifetime ban and castration. 

BUT.. as Ms. Arbitrator wrote in her opinion,  the Personal conduct policy agreed on in the player's contract says 6 game max for a violation.  You can't change the rules retroactively.  Take it to the bank if Goodell and the NFL TRY to add more games, the NFLPA is going to raise an unprecedented holy stink about it. It could drag out in Federal courts for months. 

 Six games for "a" violation?  Hmmm... 6 games X 24 violations = 144 games.

I'd say he got off with less than a slap on the wrist but rather a pat on the head saying "now run along and be a good boy Deshaun."

Interesting. It's likely he would have received the same punishment had he only been accused of misbehaving one time. That doesn't seem right.

[laiccm]

20 hours ago, FY56 said:

 

Dear Lord I can't believe people still aren't getting it.

Two grand juries would not indict him because he did nothing ILLEGAL, not that he didn't do anything wrong.

From the NFL personal conduct policy:

Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business.

It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. We are all held to a higher standard and must conduct ourselves in a way that is responsible, promotes the values of the NFL, and is lawful.

The perv had not been railroaded and deserved what he got.

More than that..you're downplaying it. i worked for a criminal defense attorney for 7 years after I left law school. .a grand jury will indict ANYONE...as the saying goes a ham sandwich. Ask Tyson...3 years in prison, no DNA, girl came to his hotel room alone at 1 am, had proven to falsely scream rape before....Watson was in TEXAS. The Freedom project which is young attorneys getting people out of prison who are falsely convicted exists because grand juries are little more than the prosecutor's fan club. Find 1 case where someone was facing more than just 10 charges and not 1 stuck. Watson had 22.....saw twice. Something was greatly wrong with their testimony(s)

[laiccm]

NFLPA stated they will go to court

This bleeds into first week easily

Then get to the DISCOVERY portion of the case. NFL is horrified of this. This is what make them pay Kapernick 50 mill when they were being tough at first. This means owner's text messages, emails, under oath testimony...etc. 1 case opens up another ...look at Gruden. Now see Snyder, Jones, Kraft...etc.

You're going against 2 grand juries and a judge's rulings. Not just other judges despise you attempting to bring other judges decisions to them but you agreed to this crafting of NFL issues being decided by this female judge. She intimated if Watson acted remorseful in public he probably would've gotten less games...

Good luck. Watson might not get a game...I worked for a defense attorney for 7 years out of law school. Court house is a different reality. It's the ultimate "F around and find out" scenario. The court house is not a Democracy. Judge is the King...or Queen. Period

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, hoorta said:

It would look real bad for Goodell to agree with the NFLPA on having an independent arbitrator hear disciplinary cases, and then right out of the gate say- six games isn't enough.  

Especially given how piss poorly he handled the Sexual Harassment issues at Daniel Snyder's work place. 

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

What.  My question is something you wouldn't ask?  If you were an owner?  I mean, put aside what you think about Haslem.  You wouldn't be asking your buddies, "So then, why did we bring in that chick judge?"    I mean, I can picture the Steelers front office after they hear that GoToHell changed the suspension to a full season, "Yeah!!!  Fuck them Browns!!!  But...not for nothin' guys, what's that Robinson chick good for?"  

In so many words, she did a great job of pointing out that her ruling could not exceed the precedent.  

[nickers]

I would just accept the punishment and move on... Enough money was wasted in this...

[ballpeen]

It would send a message of why even bother with the arbitrator.

 

I do get why the NFLPA went with this set up.  If goodell does overrule, in court they will have a much easier time hammering that the commish imposes penalty with prejudice and isn't unbiased in his dealings with players and owners. 

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, FY56 said:

 Six games for "a" violation?  Hmmm... 6 games X 24 violations = 144 games.

I'd say he got off with less than a slap on the wrist but rather a pat on the head saying "now run along and be a good boy Deshaun."

Interesting. It's likely he would have received the same punishment had he only been accused of misbehaving one time. That doesn't seem right.

Yeah, some folks IMHO pushing the "Me Too" agenda would rather see their team in the shitter for years, instead of realizing the opinion of an independent arbitrator (and former Federal judge)- this is what it is. Couldn't hand out a longer suspension, because it's in the CBA. Should Goodell & Company try for a lengthier time out, the NFLPA will take it to  Federal Court faster than you can say "Deshaun Watson". Count on it. 

The other side wanted NO suspension at all.  Said it earlier, I'm OK with six games. 

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

I would just accept the punishment and move on... Enough money was wasted in this....tiesP

I would love for someone or group to get all of the attorney fees, court costs and fees NFL penalties, costs, fees and and attorney fees and other  miscellaneous  costs that  ive missed so far.  there and any other hidden fees (I'm sure they're plenty)  and news coverage costs   see what this  whole miserable  mess  has really cost  everyone. 

I don't know about you but I'm completely  sick and tired of this whole miserable mess.    If you agree please let us know about what  YOU    think about this  Deshaun Watson national  travesty.

 

~AND~   are you   ready for some football  ?       Remember that the NFL HOF    Thursday  Night Football  Game   is on iat 8 pm. LAR versus  JAX. just     - 2 -    days with the introduction of this year's inductees shown throughout the game !

Me too.  ❤️ 

 

[jrb12711]

54 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, some folks IMHO pushing the "Me Too" agenda would rather see their team in the shitter for years, instead of realizing the opinion of an independent arbitrator (and former Federal judge)- this is what it is.

I can tell you without a moment of hesitation that I'd rather watch shitty football than win with Watson. I'll always be a fan of the Browns, but any success associated with Watson will feel like a tarnished crown to me. I just don't how on Earth I'll be able to cheer, or even be happy, assuming he has success playing the position. 

[nickers]

49 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I would love for someone or group to get all of the attorney fees, court costs and fees NFL penalties, costs, fees and and attorney fees and other  miscellaneous  costs that  ive missed so far.  there and any other hidden fees (I'm sure they're plenty)  and news coverage costs   see what this  whole miserable  mess  has really cost  everyone. 

I don't know about you but I'm completely  sick and tired of this whole miserable mess.    If you agree please let us know about what  YOU    think about this  Deshaun Watson national  travesty.

 

~AND~   are you   ready for some football  ?       Remember that the NFL HOF    Thursday  Night Football  Game   is on iat 8 pm. LAR versus  JAX. just     - 2 -    days with the introduction of this year's inductees shown throughout the game !

Me too.  ❤️ 

 

Don't forget incurred taxes!

[SdBacker80]

8 hours ago, laiccm said:

NFLPA stated they will go to court

This bleeds into first week easily

Then get to the DISCOVERY portion of the case. NFL is horrified of this. This is what make them pay Kapernick 50 mill when they were being tough at first. This means owner's text messages, emails, under oath testimony...etc. 1 case opens up another ...look at Gruden. Now see Snyder, Jones, Kraft...etc.

You're going against 2 grand juries and a judge's rulings. Not just other judges despise you attempting to bring other judges decisions to them but you agreed to this crafting of NFL issues being decided by this female judge. She intimated if Watson acted remorseful in public he probably would've gotten less games...

Good luck. Watson might not get a game...I worked for a defense attorney for 7 years out of law school. Court house is a different reality. It's the ultimate "F around and find out" scenario. The court house is not a Democracy. Judge is the King...or Queen. Period

And they are putting out their poorly drafted and egregiously interpreted Players Conduct Policy.  Reading the opinion yesterday that was definitely flagged by the Judge. 
 

If this is appealed and then a lawsuit follows I believe he plays the whole year next season and the optics of that look worse for the NFL especially down the road when they lose badly. 

[SdBacker80]

15 hours ago, FY56 said:

 Six games for "a" violation?  Hmmm... 6 games X 24 violations = 144 games.

I'd say he got off with less than a slap on the wrist but rather a pat on the head saying "now run along and be a good boy Deshaun."

Interesting. It's likely he would have received the same punishment had he only been accused of misbehaving one time. That doesn't seem right.

If I can add one bit of understanding to this situation.  As a rich man (which I am not but I know a few) Settling a civil case is not an admission of guilt.  Yet we have “intelligent” media members repeatedly bringing this up. You are certainly better off with an upcoming 350M payout paying a “victim” 100K than sitting in front of a jury that is aware of your known wealth.   Honestly if he was truly guilty they would have much much more and/or their lawyer stinks.  He seems like a d@mn good ambulance chaser to me 

[Westside Steve]

19 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

If I can add one bit of understanding to this situation.  As a rich man (which I am not but I know a few) Settling a civil case is not an admission of guilt.  Yet we have “intelligent” media members repeatedly bringing this up. You are certainly better off with an upcoming 350M payout paying a “victim” 100K than sitting in front of a jury that is aware of your known wealth.   Honestly if he was truly guilty they would have much much more and/or their lawyer stinks.  He seems like a d@mn good ambulance chaser to me 

Settling is not necessarily an admission of guilt neither is failure to indict a statement of Innocence. A legal system that forces you to go bankrupt defending yourself against BS or real allegations if that's what they are is a big big problem. That's life. It is what it is he got what he got time to live it or live with it.

WSS

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

I can tell you without a moment of hesitation that I'd rather watch shitty football than win with Watson. I'll always be a fan of the Browns, but any success associated with Watson will feel like a tarnished crown to me. I just don't how on Earth I'll be able to cheer, or even be happy, assuming he has success playing the position. 

Then how fast you've forgotten 1-15, 0-16...  🙄 Whoopee!!! Let's go back the the good old days of being the NFL doormat.  

Look, I'm not thrilled about Watson's past- yeah, it's disgusting... But I believe he deserves a second chance. And that second chance will be his last- if you've caught on to what the arbitrator wrote. 

There's Browns fans who aren't Browns fans anymore... Plenty like you who may hold their noses and still root for the Browns in spite of the Watson stink. Count me in that group, what's done is done, not a damn thing that I can do about it. It's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's plenty of high character guys on the Browns like Nick Chubb & Joel Bitonio, you want players like them to lose just because you feel that Watson is an unforgivable sleaze ball?   

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

I can tell you without a moment of hesitation that I'd rather watch shitty football than win with Watson. I'll always be a fan of the Browns, but any success associated with Watson will feel like a tarnished crown to me. I just don't how on Earth I'll be able to cheer, or even be happy, assuming he has success playing the position. 

The guy got some hand jobs, big frigging deal.  They are money grubbers trying to get as much as possible.  Watch someone else then.

[jrb12711]

27 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Then how fast you've forgotten 1-15, 0-16...  🙄 Whoopee!!! Let's go back the the good old days of being the NFL doormat.  

Look, I'm not thrilled about Watson's past- yeah, it's disgusting... But I believe he deserves a second chance. And that second chance will be his last- if you've caught on to what the arbitrator wrote. 

There's Browns fans who aren't Browns fans anymore... Plenty like you who may hold their noses and still root for the Browns in spite of the Watson stink. Count me in that group, what's done is done, not a damn thing that I can do about it. It's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's plenty of high character guys on the Browns like Nick Chubb & Joel Bitonio, you want players like them to lose just because you feel that Watson is an unforgivable sleaze ball?   

As I've used before, all I'm going to say in response is "a rotten apple spoils the bunch". Further, this isn't JUST Watson-it's owners and an organization who made a conscious choice to go this route.

I haven't forgotten those awful days, at all. But that doesn't change my mind at all either.

16 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

The guy got some hand jobs, big frigging deal.  They are money grubbers trying to get as much as possible.  Watch someone else then.

“Watson then started to masturbate," the suit said, and the woman immediately stopped the massage. “Apparently responding to the look of shock on (the woman’s) face, Watson said to (the woman) ‘Relax. It is okay to touch it.' ” the suit said.

When she refused, Watson stood and “continued masturbating more aggressively,” the suit said.

As he did so, he also asked the woman, “Where do you want me to put it?” the suit said, adding that the woman was “in complete shock and could not speak. She froze.”

Watson then quickly ejaculated, the suit said, and “some of his ejaculate got on (the woman’s) chest and face,” the suit said.

The woman immediately left the room to clean up. Watson dressed, “offered no apology or explanation for his conduct,” left and paid her $150 via Cash App.

The woman called her close friend afterward and told her what happened. “They were both mortified by Watson’s conduct,” the suit said.

Sure, just handjobs. At least admit you are ignoring things.

[Orion]

So, is this the end of day 2?    Of the 3 days that the NFL has to appeal?  

[gumby73]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

So, is this the end of day 2?    Of the 3 days that the NFL has to appeal?  

Per The Dan Patrick show.. This Thursday 9am is the cutoff time.. I chose to wait this out..

This whole 'process' is a suits cluster-fuk imo.. Sue Robinson is not the blame here.. D. Watson is..

while the NFLPA should have never signed anything on letting players, loss games/fines get back into God-dell's 'process' on appeal.

Tick. Tick.tick

[Orion]

22 hours ago, hoorta said:

as Ms. Arbitrator wrote in her opinion,  the Personal conduct policy agreed on in the player's contract says 6 game max for a violation.  You can't change the rules retroactively.

'nuff said.....in reality, right?  If they want to amend the policy, well, there's probably a procedure in place for that.  But what changes may or may not be put forth in the future doesn't apply in the here and now.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

[Orion]

22 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Per The Dan Patrick show.. This Thursday 9am is the cut time.

Thanks.  So we're just about half way through...

[FY56]

5 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I can tell you without a moment of hesitation that I'd rather watch shitty football than win with Watson. I'll always be a fan of the Browns, but any success associated with Watson will feel like a tarnished crown to me. I just don't how on Earth I'll be able to cheer, or even be happy, assuming he has success playing the position. 

Although I don't find myself going to that extreme, I don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.

But how would you feel if Watson was to serve a full year suspension rather than a six game?

Rizzo on KNR played a montage of media taking heads expressing their opinion on the suspension, and one believing Watson deserves a one year suspension stuck out as making a lot of sense....

He said that upon completion of Watsons lengthy one year suspension, fans most conflicted about Watson would come around and be of the mindset that the man has paid his dues ...and that it is now time forgive and forget and get back to playing football, and that's exactly how I would feel.

At this point he still remains a scumbag to a lot of Browns fans.

 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

As I've used before, all I'm going to say in response is "a rotten apple spoils the bunch". Further, this isn't JUST Watson-it's owners and an organization who made a conscious choice to go this route.

I haven't forgotten those awful days, at all. But that doesn't change my mind at all either.

“Watson then started to masturbate," the suit said, and the woman immediately stopped the massage. “Apparently responding to the look of shock on (the woman’s) face, Watson said to (the woman) ‘Relax. It is okay to touch it.' ” the suit said.

When she refused, Watson stood and “continued masturbating more aggressively,” the suit said.

As he did so, he also asked the woman, “Where do you want me to put it?” the suit said, adding that the woman was “in complete shock and could not speak. She froze.”

Watson then quickly ejaculated, the suit said, and “some of his ejaculate got on (the woman’s) chest and face,” the suit said.

The woman immediately left the room to clean up. Watson dressed, “offered no apology or explanation for his conduct,” left and paid her $150 via Cash App.

The woman called her close friend afterward and told her what happened. “They were both mortified by Watson’s conduct,” the suit said.

Sure, just handjobs. At least admit you are ignoring things.

I'm certainly not ignoring that... And the other sleazy instances...  She never saw a guy beat off before in her life though?  Eventually got way more than $150 bucks to help her get over the shock... High five $$$$$ figures? 

Regarding the Browns Office & coaching staff who signed off on bringing DW into town, they had better be right about his playing ability, or they're all going to be looking for employment elsewhere.  

[mjp28]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I'm certainly not ignoring that... And the other sleazy instances...  She never saw a guy beat off before in her life though?  Eventually got way more than $150 bucks to help her get over the shock... High five $$$$$ figures? 

Regarding the Browns Office & coaching staff who signed off on bringing DW into town, they had better be right about his playing ability, or they're all going to be looking for employment elsewhere.  

Something tells me some staff might have started that already.   Who knows.   Good night everyone.   

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

I don't know about "remorseful"..  At least publicly.  Was I wrong hearing it somewhere Judge Robinson said he might have gotten off lighter with an apology, instead of continually harping "I didn't do anything wrong"?  

[gumby73]

Can't find this posted.. so

 Here's Sue Robinson's 16 pages of findings..(pg.5)

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/01/sports/football/deshaun-watson-suspension-decision.html