Browns fans are a confusing bunch.

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

It was a very stupid move.

Time will tell.

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

then some of you guys could stop bringing up the other board here, ya?

and, it isn't about his private parts - I bashed the squealers qb all this time, why would I ignore the sluttiness of sleazy?

    it isn't just hanky panky with women - it's the offense of harrassment etc.

   Just like rapistblogger - it's the offense.

I'm not telling anyone to think differently - but it always seems certain people get enraged when they can't control the narrative. Not necessarily, you, Zombo, but I think several of us know who they are.

and you keep bringing the political figures indiscretions - many, many times I have said - I did not like him early on. But like Hunt - he changed.

"sleazy" is sleazy and apparently will never change.

and, get it right - I never said I was done with the Browns. That is what is snowflake.

  I said I will have better things to do than to spend all my time this fall watching their games. I'm done with that. My choice.

  It's pretty snowflakish to be afraid of the other board - but keep bringing it up over there where you have better numbers.

Just sayin......

So many contradictory statements in all that mish mash. Who'd a thunk it.🤣

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

1) then some of you guys could stop bringing up the other board here, ya?

and, it isn't about his private parts - I bashed the squealers qb all this time, why would I ignore the sluttiness of sleazy?

    it isn't just hanky panky with women - it's the offense of harrassment etc.

   Just like rapistblogger - it's the offense.

I'm not telling anyone to think differently - but it always seems certain people get enraged when they can't control the narrative. Not necessarily, you, Zombo, but I think several of us know who they are.

2) and you keep bringing the political figures indiscretions - many, many times I have said - I did not like him early on. But like Hunt - he changed.

"sleazy" is sleazy and apparently will never change.

and, get it right - I never said I was done with the Browns. That is what is snowflake.

  I said I will have better things to do than to spend all my time this fall watching their games. I'm done with that. My choice.

 3) It's pretty snowflakish to be afraid of the other board - but keep bringing it up over here where you have better numbers.

Just sayin......

1) be glad to... but since you want to have your typical last word in....

2) Incidentally I believe Ben has changed too, family man and all that. If he's still a sleaze, well by golly- a certain political figure is still one too.. Can I spell it for you?  It's Called h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. Oh, and if Hunt changed, do you want to tell me Watson can't change either?  LOL!!!!

3) Yes Cal, please run off to your safe space where the lack of moderation allows you to call posters Woodpeckers or Drunks if you don't agree with their POV.  Really, it's not "Discussion" it's what anyone with a couple unbiased functioning neurons would call a one sided "Diatribe". Sprinkled in with a a regular dosage of crackpot conspiracy theories. Frankly, it gets ever more embarrassing, and should be done away with. 

[Westside Steve]

41 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Oh, and if Hunt changed, do you want to tell me Watson can't change either?  LOL!!!!

 

I wish you guys would keep the politics out of here.

But to that one point of course he could change,(or at least stumble through a prepared Mia culpa)

Have you heard him say anything even resembling that? (Even if that soliloquy at the end of Rocky 4 was one of the most embarrassing pieces of moviedom ever.)

(And to be fair if all 22 chicks and the other 10 criminal accusations are downright lies he probably shouldn't.)

WSS

 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

I think that if he KNEW they would land Watson, he wouldn't have extended him.  

Without a doubt, but Berry screwed the pooch and admitted to it.

He can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

It all boils down to leverage, and the Browns don’t have any.

Berry fucked up by signing Baker’s contract extension BEFORE he went shopping for Mayfield’s replacement.

Other GM’s know this and are waiting for the price to drop.

What leverage did the Texans have? 

[Canton Dawg]

31 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

What leverage did the Texans have? 

To be honest, I don’t know all of the sordid details regarding Watson and the Texans FO.

I’m not sure if he was paid for not playing, or maybe he had pictures of some big shot in a compromising situation. 

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

To be honest, I don’t know all of the sordid details regarding Watson and the Texans FO.

I’m not sure if he was paid for not playing, or maybe he had pictures of some big shot in a compromising situation. 

And that's my point - the Texans should have had no more leverage with Watson than the Browns do with Baker. 

Watson was never playing for Houston again, and the Browns have no use for Baker. Plus, regardless of how talented Watson is, he was a PR-disaster, yet, three first rounders, a third rounder and two fourth rounders just lolly-gagged their way from Cleveland to Houston. (That's right - I said lolly-gagged.) 

[calfoxwc]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

1) be glad to... but since you want to have your typical last word in....2) Incidentally I believe Ben has changed too, family man and all that. If he's still a sleaze, well by golly- a certain political figure is still one too.. Can I spell it for you?  It's Called h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. Oh, and if Hunt changed, do you want to tell me Watson can't change either?  LOL!!!!3) Yes Cal, please run off to your safe space where the lack of moderation allows you to call posters Woodpeckers or Drunks if you don't agree with their POV.  Really, it's not "Discussion" it's what anyone with a couple unbiased functioning neurons would call a one sided "Diatribe". Sprinkled in with a a regular dosage of crackpot conspiracy theories. Frankly, it gets ever more embarrassing, and should be done away with. 

 

that is some stupid bs right there. We didn't trade 3 first round draft picks for rapistblogger. I thought you only failed to talk rationally at night.

Not good. not good at all. You should be ashamed of yourself...

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

And that's my point - the Texans should have had no more leverage with Watson than the Browns do with Baker. 

Watson was never playing for Houston again, and the Browns have no use for Baker. Plus, regardless of how talented Watson is, he was a PR-disaster, yet, three first rounders, a third rounder and two fourth rounders just lolly-gagged their way from Cleveland to Houston. (That's right - I said lolly-gagged.) 

I think the difference would be the Browns paid for 2 QB’s, and only need one.

Is lolly-gagged a verb? 😁

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I think the difference would be the Browns paid for 2 QB’s, and only need one.

Is lolly-gagged a verb? 😁

I mean, I'd love to get Baker off the roster and off the cap, but at the end of the day, they upgraded the position, have extended all the young players they wanted to extend, and will be fine financially this season. At the end of the season, at the worst, his money disappears. I don't really see how this is a disaster.

The disaster is if this Watson legal situation takes a (at this time) unexpected twist and all hell breaks loose, or the NFL decides to go scorch-earth on Watson and do a Trevor Bauer on the Browns with him. 

Oh yes, lolly-gagged is a verb!

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Is lolly-gagged a verb? 😁

It's a lazy verb. 

The Browns overpaid for Watson.  But if they didn't he would've signed elsewhere.

Baker of course, is a different story.  Because there, right now, is no elsewhere for him.  And frankly, when a spot finally opens up for his services, I bet Jimmy G gets the call first.

[Canton Dawg]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I mean, I'd love to get Baker off the roster and off the cap, but at the end of the day, they upgraded the position, have extended all the young players they wanted to extend, and will be fine financially this season. At the end of the season, at the worst, his money disappears. I don't really see how this is a disaster.

The disaster is if this Watson legal situation takes a (at this time) unexpected twist and all hell breaks loose, or the NFL decides to go scorch-earth on Watson and do a Trevor Bauer on the Browns with him. 

Oh yes, lolly-gagged is a verb!

Knowing the Browns luck, DW will get suspended the entire season and Mayfield will refuse to play. Then we would be forced to start Brisset go 2-15 on the season just to hand the first overall pick to Houston next year.

Sounds about right.

[Canton Dawg]

10 minutes ago, Orion said:

It's a lazy verb. 

The Browns overpaid for Watson.  But if they didn't he would've signed elsewhere.

Baker of course, is a different story.  Because there, right now, is no elsewhere for him.  And frankly, when a spot finally opens up for his services, I bet Jimmy G gets the call first.

No doubt Haslam and company are taking a huge gamble on DW.

I believe that Garropolo’s phone will be the first to ring in the off-season, and Baker will have to play second fiddle to him.

I think with the slim pickings of QB’s in this years draft will create somewhat of a demand for both of them.

[Dutch Oven]

7 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Knowing the Browns luck, DW will get suspended the entire season and Mayfield will refuse to play. Then we would be forced to start Brisset go 2-15 on the season just to hand the first overall pick to Houston next year.

Sounds about right.

Aren't you just a ray of sunshine!? 😉

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

No doubt Haslam and company are taking a huge gamble on DW.

I believe that Garropolo’s phone will be the first to ring in the off-season, and Baker will have to play second fiddle to him.

I think with the slim pickings of QB’s in this years draft will create somewhat of a demand for both of them.

Garoppolo is recovering from a throwing shoulder injury, while Baker had surgery on his non-throwing shoulder... 

So why do you think Jimmy will be in more demand? 

[mjp28]

19 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I think the difference would be the Browns paid for 2 QB’s, and only need one.

Is lolly-gagged a verb? 😁

Lollygag

verb (used without object), lol·ly·gagged, lol·ly·gag·ging.Informal.

to spend time idly; loaf.

to indulge in kisses and caresses; make love; neck.

 

In the BROWNS  case it might become a noun.  

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Garoppolo is recovering from a throwing shoulder injury, while Baker had surgery on his non-throwing shoulder...

I know you're not asking me, but I did say about the same thing.  It certainly depends upon each player's healing time...but by the time the need for one of the two arises, perhaps even into the regular season, if they're both healed up, I certainly would call Jimmy G before Baker.  And it's not that I think Jimmy G is just THAT much better of a football player than Baker, but the 'whole package' of the person/player probably favors Jimmy G.   Although Baker is a natural when it comes to making commercials.  And I do actually mean that as a compliment to Baker.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Orion said:

I know you're not asking me, but I did say about the same thing.  It certainly depends upon each player's healing time...but by the time the need for one of the two arises, perhaps even into the regular season, if they're both healed up, I certainly would call Jimmy G before Baker.  And it's not that I think Jimmy G is just THAT much better of a football player than Baker, but the 'whole package' of the person/player probably favors Jimmy G.   Although Baker is a natural when it comes to making commercials.  And I do actually mean that as a compliment to Baker.  

At this point, I fully expect the Browns will just have to release him and eat his contract.

So if they end up getting ANYTHING for him, I'll be thrilled. 

[Dutch Oven]

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, Orion said:

It's a lazy verb. 

The Browns overpaid for Watson.  But if they didn't he would've signed elsewhere.

Baker of course, is a different story.  Because there, right now, is no elsewhere for him.  And frankly, when a spot finally opens up for his services, I bet Jimmy G gets the call first.

The debate around here is how much we overpaid for him. The deniers\hatahs don't want to believe the rumors\speculation that's out there- there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks. 

We're sort of arguing in circles about the future value of money.  Rodgers is already going to make more this year than Watson. and Mahomes is damn close. It's been pointed out with the cap certainly going up- way up- in the next couple of years $230 million guaranteed may look cheap down the road. It wasn't that long ago that Kirk Cousins' $72 million guaranteed was considered insane. Pay attention to what the Ravens are going to have to cough up shortly to keep Lamar Jackson happy. Then Herbert and Burrow when they come off their rookie deals.   

The DW "would have signed elsewhere"? For sure, and the media backlash would have been every bit as condemning regardless of where he wound up. It's just that the Browns pulled the short end of the straw to get attacked by the morality police.   

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

The debate around here is how much we overpaid for him. The deniers\hatahs don't want to believe the rumors\speculation that's out there- there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks. 

We're sort of arguing in circles about the future value of money.  Rodgers is already going to make more this year than Watson. and Mahomes is damn close. It's been pointed out with the cap certainly going up- way up- in the next couple of years $230 million guaranteed may look cheap down the road. It wasn't that long ago that Kirk Cousins' $72 million guaranteed was considered insane. Pay attention to what the Ravens are going to have to cough up shortly to keep Lamar Jackson happy. Then Herbert and Burrow when they come off their rookie deals.   

The DW "would have signed elsewhere"? For sure, and the media backlash would have been every bit as condemning regardless of where he wound up. It's just that the Browns pulled the short end of the straw to get attacked by the morality police.   

As for the highlighted part yes somebody might have come up with the draft picks but no nobody was going to add an extra here and a guarantee.

As far as media backlash? I think the insane deal drew more scrutiny to the Cleveland Browns than it would have to another team. Especially Atlanta famous for the dog torturing Michael Vick. And just for the record just on a moral spaces I'd rather have Watson than Vick.

WSS

[gumby73]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Garoppolo is recovering from a throwing shoulder injury, while Baker had surgery on his non-throwing shoulder... 

So why do you think Jimmy will be in more demand? 

9'ers will soon need to settle on Debo or Jimmy G..

Jimmy G's contract is a easier GM trade fix, than Baker's 

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

9'ers will soon need to settle on Debo or Jimmy G..

Jimmy G's contract is a easier GM trade fix, than Baker's 

How much does he make this season?

Edit: I looked it up, it appears he makes $5 mill more than Baker. 

[Canton Dawg]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Aren't you just a ray of sunshine!? 😉

I consider myself an optimist…with experience!

[Canton Dawg]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Garoppolo is recovering from a throwing shoulder injury, while Baker had surgery on his non-throwing shoulder... 

So why do you think Jimmy will be in more demand? 

I base that on their respective resumes.

Garropolo has taken his team to the playoffs including the NFC Championship Game.

He’s also 4-1 in the post season.

[Unsympathetic]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks

People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements.  The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed.  Furthermore, the actual value of all 4 teams' proposed contracts were roughly equal.. unless you want to quibble about 0.3M on any one year, the approximation is equality between all the offers.. the value and total cap hit over contract years is the same.  The single item that set the Browns above the rest is the guarantee..

It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope.  Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers.  ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans had to be approved before Watson was allowed to get on a plane to even talk with a FO seeking to sign DW.

It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks. 

We didn't overpay.. Sure, you may not agree with allocating that much of a resource to the QB position -- but a ProBowl QB in his prime had his contract set roughly at that level before Berry proposed it.  Mahomes' cap is actually more per season than DW..

[hoorta]

39 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements.  The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed.  

It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope.  Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers.  ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans were approved beforehand.

It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks.

You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table.  I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.  

[Unsympathetic]

We may be somewhat vague in this thread on the difference between a guarantee vs non-guaranteed contract.. The guarantee means obviously he does get the money as stated. The non-guarantee means that the contract could be terminated after the guaranteed period for nearly any reason.

So even though it's theoretically possible the other teams' proposed contracts could end up with the same final value, reality is that the non-guaranteed status means he'd be pushing for a trade/extension in just 2,3 more seasons.  It's not that the headline total value of the deal is "more" or "less" -- it's that the Browns said you have a 100% chance of making this amount and all the other teams were only willing to say you have a 50% chance of making the same amount.

And so Watson went with the certainty.

[Gorka]

On 5/5/2022 at 3:35 PM, hoorta said:

You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table.  I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.  

I bet it was exactly why Watson chose Cleveland.

The Saints, NO, and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.

$35 million

 

The Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause.