Don't Visit Tennessee Any Time Soon (potentially)

[jbluhm86]

I have a golf trip scheduled for this spring in Nashville; I'm not too concerned about constitutional carry people. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[Gorka]

6 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

I have a golf trip scheduled for this spring in Nashville; I'm not too concerned about constitutional carry people. 

 

Good point.  I guess I wont cancel my trip to Nashville after all..

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, Gorka said:

No. The article does say that the 700k possess enhanced permits, but the bill hasn't passed yet.

I bet these 700k have the enhanced permits most likely obtained by qualifying through one of these criteria in the link below:

This 8 hr. course is for everyone else wanting an enhanced permit if the bill passes.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/safety/documents/handgun/EHCPTrainingRequirements.pdf

 

 

Right, I realize it hasn't passed. I'm speaking to the ridiculousness of the proposed bill. Eight hours on hand gun safety is no where near enough for someone to be considered "law enforcement".

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, Neo said:

Anybody that has a gun and approaches me telling me that they are a police officer that are not in uniform or not holding a badge is getting blasted no matter what state I'm in. Hell, anybody approaching me with a gun that I feel threatens my life is getting blasted.

Yee haw

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

I have a golf trip scheduled for this spring in Nashville; I'm not too concerned about constitutional carry people. 

The law is gonna be so damn enforced. 

[Vambo]

6 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Right, I realize it hasn't passed. I'm speaking to the ridiculousness of the proposed bill. Eight hours on hand gun safety is no where near enough for someone to be considered "law enforcement".

How much training do Congress need to be able to write the laws?   AOC for example?

[Vambo]

10 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Yee haw

[Vambo]

9 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

The law is gonna be so damn enforced. 

[Neo]

4 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Yee haw

I've already had somebody in my lifetime pull up behind me,  flash their high beams, and try to pull me over. I didn't know what he wanted at the time so I pulled off to see what he wanted, thought maybe he needed help. He pulled up beside me and started asking me questions like he was a cop. He had no red or blue lights or a uniform or badge. I drove away and called the police.

Imagine if he had a gun and pointed it at me and tried to arrest me for no reason. Of course I would shoot him, anyone would.

[Westside Steve]

18 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Oh Steve, you must be new to America and guns. 

The article I linked states there are almost 700,000 enhanced carry permits in Tennessee. 

There are only about 16,000 cops in Tennessee, who are, btw, against this bill. 

And all you have to do to get one is pay $100 and take an 8 hour training course (which is waived of you're ex military, security guard, etc ). (It's even less training to get a concealed permit btw)

I'm going to go out on limb and say there's a little more training involved in being a cop (which is still arguably not enough training). 

The "enhanced" permit was added in 2020. I would be surprised if part of the naming was to make people think it was harder to get, more training involved.... Fyi, exactly what you thought. 

I know I won't change your mind or make you any more rational but I just thought I would leave you with this one idea. This is part of your MO. You get angry if anybody, especially me, doesn't agree with you one hundred percent in whatever petty outrage you post. And let's be clear the stuff you post on your own is never much of a problem. You get angry because other people are us versus them but you're the worst of the bunch. If we are to agree that there's a dark side to the gun culture in the United States we should at least be able to agree that the worst part of it doesn't have very much to do with people in Tennessee having licenses or extended training or assisting in law enforcement. As a matter of fact anybody with that extended permit is registered. So that's a step in the right direction isn't it oh, at least for you?

So at the end of the day I don't think this issue even if it passes which it probably won't is going to lead substantially to the numbers of people killed illegally with handguns. And probably not at all. And maybe less. Personally I'd like to see a longer and more stringent training period. 

And if it does pass I don't think anybody on the board besides you possibly, would take steps to avoid visiting Tennessee.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

3 hours ago, Neo said:

I've already had somebody in my lifetime pull up behind me,  flash their high beams, and try to pull me over. I didn't know what he wanted at the time so I pulled off to see what he wanted, thought maybe he needed help. He pulled up beside me and started asking me questions like he was a cop. He had no red or blue lights or a uniform or badge. I drove away and called the police.

Imagine if he had a gun and pointed it at me and tried to arrest me for no reason. Of course I would shoot him, anyone would.

Of course that really doesn't apply to the proposal. But I would imagine a decent attorney could have cleared you in that exact situation. But yes someone using a handgun to intimidate somebody for no reason is putting himself at risk. Anybody participating in this program should reasonably be expected to have their s*** together better than to try something like that. Agreed. Regardless of whether he's just some jerk off with a gun or an actual police officer who draws his weapon on you merely for the reason of harassing you. Right? 

WSS

 

[calfoxwc]

I still think the point of the possible bill that hasn't even had hearings yet....

is to make a point.

Defunding the police - look up "citizen helps police in trouble".

Assaults on police are skyrocketing - this possible law is probably to

protect those who respond to cries of help by police, male or female.

Protection from frivolous fake lawsuits would be one.

There are plenty of corrupt people who try to "win the lottery" with a

fake lawsuit via false claims. 5.6 BILLION ?

The False Claims Act - United States Department of Justice

https://www.justice.gov › civil › false-claims-act

Many Fraud Section investigations and lawsuits arise from such qui tam actions. The Department of Justice obtained more than $5.6 billion in settlements and judgments from civil cases involving fraud and false claims against the government in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2021.

 

[Gorka]

12 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Right, I realize it hasn't passed. I'm speaking to the ridiculousness of the proposed bill. Eight hours on hand gun safety is no where near enough for someone to be considered "law enforcement".

Yes, I understand, and I agree with your take.

But you have to understand that you had again alluded to the 700K mentioned in the article by saying:

700k people running around Tennessee being considered law enforcement because they did a one day class on handguns makes me want to visit Tennessee less. 

These 700k mentioned in the article with enhanced permits did not just complete a one day class. These are former military, Department of Corrections, POST personnel etc., whose training is lengthier and more in-depth.

Going forward will be instituted this one day class for those desiring an enhanced permit.

Had you used "tens of thousands", rather than 700K, then there would have been no ambiguity.

 

[Gorka]

What a great idea for those demonrat run cities with thoughts of abolishing their police departments.

 

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Yes, I understand, and I agree with your take.

But you have to understand that you had again alluded to the 700K mentioned in the article by saying:

700k people running around Tennessee being considered law enforcement because they did a one day class on handguns makes me want to visit Tennessee less. 

These 700k mentioned in the article with enhanced permits did not just complete a one day class. These are former military, Department of Corrections, POST personnel etc., whose training is lengthier and more in-depth.

Going forward will be instituted this one day class for those desiring an enhanced permit.

Had you used "tens of thousands", rather than 700K, then there would have been no ambiguity.

 

Excellent point, and background checks - every single concealed carry license requires them. It would have to be dire, serious circumstances for me, as a voting member of the Tenn. gov, to vote for that bill.

But as to Gorka's point - the ability, in a serious crisis - to protect some retired police, military, etc and giving them the ability to HELP without frivolous lawsuits...isn't some glaring crackpot idea.

Personally, I wouldn't get a license like that - unless the SHTF, I suppose - but if I was the sheriff of a city in Tenn. and my friend who was special forces back in the service - it would be great to get him that extended license to have his help - but it still seems far fetched. I rather think that the point of the "bill" is to make a point.

[Gorka]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Excellent point, and background checks - every single concealed carry license requires them. It would have to be dire, serious circumstances for me, as a voting member of the Tenn. gov, to vote for that bill.

But as to Gorka's point - the ability, in a serious crisis - to protect some retired police, military, etc and giving them the ability to HELP without frivolous lawsuits...isn't some glaring crackpot idea.

Personally, I wouldn't get a license like that - unless the SHTF, I suppose - but if I was the sheriff of a city in Tenn. and my friend who was special forces back in the service - it would be great to get him that extended license to have his help - but it still seems far fetched. I rather think that the point of the "bill" is to make a point.

The intentions are definitely good. The issue for me is the little time that is required for training if this is a "police substitute" permit.

[MLD Woody]

22 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Yes, I understand, and I agree with your take.

But you have to understand that you had again alluded to the 700K mentioned in the article by saying:

700k people running around Tennessee being considered law enforcement because they did a one day class on handguns makes me want to visit Tennessee less. 

These 700k mentioned in the article with enhanced permits did not just complete a one day class. These are former military, Department of Corrections, POST personnel etc., whose training is lengthier and more in-depth.

Going forward will be instituted this one day class for those desiring an enhanced permit.

Had you used "tens of thousands", rather than 700K, then there would have been no ambiguity.

 

They aren't all former military, etc. I'm sure that's a portion, but the 700k number is just everyone with an enhanced permit. You can get an enhanced permit by taking one 8 hour course. 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Gorka said:

The intentions are definitely good. The issue for me is the little time that is required for training if this is a "police substitute" permit.

Absolutely. Back in the day, Air Force, I was interviewed one time before I became a civilian again. I was sponsored to join OSI.

It was a tremendous honor - my commander said he had, in all his years, never had someone be nominated for OSI, not ever. He said he agreed with it - I should go and talk to them.

I would have had to re-enlist for 6 yrs, with a year and a half of training. Me with a bad knee, I was so honored, but told the Lt. Col. I didn't think my knee would make it through all that, it barely made it through basic, lol. He grinned and said for me to not sell myself short, lol, and asked me about something I did back at Keelser, which surprised me, and said they screened seriously before deciding - Truth is, I didn't want to go overseas, etc, and I planned all along to go to college and be a civilian again.

anyways, compare that to an 8 hr class - just seems 8 hrs is just worse than seriously inadequate.

[Neo]

Sounds like they are giving more rights to gun owners and taking away the rights of the owners of the establishments to say who can or cannot enter their business. Does it not?

 

 

 

 

"State Sen. Joey Hensley, who introduced the state Senate version of the bill, told ABC News that the goal of the bill was to allow enhanced gun permit carriers to carry their weapons into locations where off-duty law enforcement enter, such as a store or restaurant that prohibits guns inside their business. Hensley said the bill would not allow enhanced permit holders to bring their weapons into courts or schools."

 

[Westside Steve]

47 minutes ago, Neo said:

Sounds like they are giving more rights to gun owners and taking away the rights of the owners of the establishments to say who can or cannot enter their business. Does it not?

 

 well you understand the slippery slope involved when you start forbidding otherwise law-abiding people from entering your establishment.

WSS

 

 

"State Sen. Joey Hensley, who introduced the state Senate version of the bill, told ABC News that the goal of the bill was to allow enhanced gun permit carriers to carry their weapons into locations where off-duty law enforcement enter, such as a store or restaurant that prohibits guns inside their business. Hensley said the bill would not allow enhanced permit holders to bring their weapons into courts or schools."

 

 

[Neo]

11 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

well you understand the slippery slope involved when you start forbidding otherwise law-abiding people from entering your establishment.

WSS

It's the same as " no shirt or shoes, no service" They aren't forbidding anyone from entering the store, as long as you're fully dressed. Same thing goes for guns, they're not denying you ownership of a gun, just own it in a locked box in your car. Or you can decide to go to another store if you don't want to leave it in the car. Both the business and the customer have the right to choose.  I don't think it's right to basically tell some one I'm going to enter your business with a gun and there's nothing you can do about it. 

That's like you inviting someone into your house that has a concealed gun but you don't want them wearing it in your house and they say "well, there is a law saying I don't have to take it off' You're not going to let them in are you?