Perfect storm for Baker haters

[Westside Steve]

As you know I think the Lion's Share of the problems with Baker fall squarely on Stefanski's shoulders. (or Haslam if he's been calling the shots which he's been known to do) But that's for another thread.

There will always be a percent of "fans" who hate the starting quarterback no matter what. For them this week should be a godsend. Or at least could. Unless they are stupid the Bengals are going to sit most of their good players Burrow for sure. The Browns will too; on top of that they have absolutely nothing to play and risk injury for. But there's a chance that the guys on the bubble might play their hearts out hoping to keep their jobs for another season. The Browns actually could win this final game with Keenum under center. At this point the haters will have a new Mike Pagel to follow. At least until he loses his first game at which point the haters will be pawing through the trash heap of quarterbacks on the trade block like it was Long John Silver's treasure chest.

shit.😠

3 2 1....

WSS

[Dutch Oven]

Like I've said before, I'm alright with the idea of improving the offense this offseason, getting Baker rehabbed and trying this again next season, if they can't find an improvement over Baker. 

But don't we already have a 35+ page thread that tells all of us how Baker Mayfield supporters are the true Browns fans, and Baker Mayfield "haters" are inferior, poor fans? 

[tiamat63]

I'm supposed to believe there's a grown ass man on the other side of this post and not a 16 year old sound cloud rapper?

How many times can we use the word "haters"? Today kids? I don't know, but let's find out.

[Westside Steve]

28 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Like I've said before, I'm alright with the idea of improving the offense this offseason, getting Baker rehabbed and trying this again next season, if they can't find an improvement over Baker. 

But don't we already have a 35+ page thread that tells all of us how Baker Mayfield supporters are the true Browns fans, and Baker Mayfield "haters" are inferior, poor fans? 

Well Dutch that's the reason I kept this one particular thread to that one issue. And that's the Bengals game this Sunday. The reasons for or against success or failure are certainly represented in another thread. And when I posted it I was pretty sure the wheels would come off like they do and so many threads. Didn't think it would be this quick.

Bottom line here is whether or not a meaningless win I guess Cincinnati makes Case Keenum a folk hero.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

24 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I'm supposed to believe there's a grown ass man on the other side of this post and not a 16 year old sound cloud rapper?

How many times can we use the word "haters"? Today kids? I don't know, but let's find out.

I don't care what you believe. Insults aside, maybe you remember the laundry list of backup quarterbacks that temporarily  played the role of Messiah.

WSS

 

[Bob806]

42 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

.... maybe you remember the laundry list of backup quarterbacks that temporarily  played the role of Messiah.

WSS

 

Can I start? How about Paul "pick 6" McDonald, who finally got a starting gig when Trump signed Sipe to the NJ Generals USFL in 1984. That sucked big time.

Holcomb for Couch,ugh. Ok, I'll stop, it's way to early in the day.

Go Browns!!!

[calfoxwc]

insults are sanctioned unless you say something that doesn't have you know who's permission.

I think it's more just outrage venting. Lashing out. I don't understand why giving him a chance to get healed,

and getting him a #1 weapon isn't a unanimous decision.

   What good does it do, to pay a price for another qb to come in, with a top #1 added to the offense?

Like I said, Burrow's performance and their wins skyrocketed when they added Ja'Marr Chase to the offense.

It's better to fix one thing at a time - Baker was fine last year.

 

[Bob806]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

insults are sanctioned unless you say something that doesn't have you know who's permission.

I think it's more just outrage venting. Lashing out. I don't understand why giving him a chance to get healed,

and getting him a #1 weapon isn't a unanimous decision.

   What good does it do, to pay a price for another qb to come in, with a top #1 added to the offense?

Like I said, Burrow's performance and their wins skyrocketed when they added Ja'Marr Chase to the offense.

It's better to fix one thing at a time - Baker was fine last year.

 

While I tend to agree, I'm just hoping Baker's confidence isn't shot. The shoulder should heal, the mind is more of a concern. 

[BernieSuperBowl2]

This is a passive-aggressive garbage post by the OP. Nobody gives a shit about this final game, we are out of contention for the playoffs. There will be no “I told you so” if we win with Keenum, while the Bengals should damn well be resting their stud starters.

I’ll turn the tables. Last year was the “perfect storm” for Baker. In 2020, Baker benefited from the best o-line in the NFL and the best running game in the NFL. Stefanski made him look better than he did. We had no major injuries on offense outside of Odell in 2020, who Baker had zero chemistry with because Baker is a one read quarterback. This year our RB’s were banged up, we had injuries to the o-line, and we asked Baker to step up and be the man. He couldn’t do it.

Out of the last 20 years, including more than 100 QB’s, Baker is near dead last in 4^th quarter crunch time stats. He has no athleticism and has the mental/emotional maturity of a 12 year boy. We will never win a Super Bowl with him ever. This year wasn’t a down year for Baker, this year is the normal for Baker - you’re not going to have the number one o-line and running game each and every year. A quarterback needs to be able to pass the ball, not turn the ball over (Baker has more interceptions than any other QB since 2018 and we're a run heavy team), and lead us to a field goal or a touchdown in the 4^th quarter. It's not his shoulder, it's not the lack of a #1 WR - we had a #1WR and Baker sucked so bad he went to another team where he's scoring a touchdown every game. 

 

 

[Westside Steve]

36 minutes ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

This is a passive-aggressive garbage post by the OP. Nobody gives a shit about this final game,

 

Fair enough but that means the rest of your commentary is meaningless because that was the basis of the OP of which you've entirely disregarded. But even if you're correct about last season and stefanski making Baker look good, which is the head coach's job, why did he change his ways? Either of them?

we are out of contention for the playoffs. There will be no “I told you so” if we win with Keenum, while the Bengals should damn well be resting their stud starters.

I’ll turn the tables. Last year was the “perfect storm” for Baker. In 2020, Baker benefited from the best o-line in the NFL and the best running game in the NFL. Stefanski made him look better than he did. We had no major injuries on offense outside of Odell in 2020, who Baker had zero chemistry with because Baker is a one read quarterback. This year our RB’s were banged up, we had injuries to the o-line, and we asked Baker to step up and be the man. He couldn’t do it.

Out of the last 20 years, including more than 100 QB’s, Baker is near dead last in 4^th quarter crunch time stats. He has no athleticism and has the mental/emotional maturity of a 12 year boy. We will never win a Super Bowl with him ever. This year wasn’t a down year for Baker, this year is the normal for Baker - you’re not going to have the number one o-line and running game each and every year. A quarterback needs to be able to pass the ball, not turn the ball over (Baker has more interceptions than any other QB since 2018 and we're a run heavy team), and lead us to a field goal or a touchdown in the 4^th quarter. It's not his shoulder, it's not the lack of a #1 WR - we had a #1WR and Baker sucked so bad he went to another team where he's scoring a touchdown every game. 

 

 

 

[Unsympathetic]

Baker was given everything but the fact is he played badly.  Multiple All-Pro QB's [Derek Carr, Matt Ryan] have NEVER had as much talent as the Browns have had the last couple of years on O and yet Baker could still not make it work.  How, exactly, is Baker going to do better on a worse team?

Baker made enemies where he could have friends with his comments about the blocking plan this past game vs Pitt.

Baker's shoulder didn't make his bad decisions to repeatedly force it into double coverage all year.. he hurt his football team.

The roster of Cleveland is way too talented not to get a new QB this offseason.

 

 

OP and others: When you use the word "hater" .. it makes you a "lover," it's not some sort of magic phrase that inoculates you from criticism or Baker from the objective reality of his game film performance.

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Baker was given everything but the fact is he played badly.  Multiple All-Pro QB's [Derek Carr, Matt Ryan] have NEVER had as much talent as the Browns have had the last couple of years on O and yet Baker could still not make it work.  How, exactly, is Baker going to do better on a worse team?

Baker made enemies where he could have friends with his comments about the blocking plan this past game vs Pitt.

Baker's shoulder didn't make his bad decisions to repeatedly force it into double coverage all year.. he hurt his football team.

The roster of Cleveland is way too talented not to get a new QB this offseason.

 

 

OP and others: When you use the word "hater" .. it makes you a "lover," it's not some sort of magic phrase that inoculates you from criticism or Baker from the objective reality of his game film performance.

Again not the point at all. I'm not surprised. I'm talking about a very small attitude window that would concern this upcoming game.

Neither to praise nor bury Caesar.

WSS

[Kegeratorz]

Baker has a (dwindling) cult like following that like him, are thin skinned and defensive.

I hope he gets it together and balls out next year. If he doesn’t, can we be honest about it?

[Icecube]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

While I tend to agree, I'm just hoping Baker's confidence isn't shot. The shoulder should heal, the mind is more of a concern. 

If there is one guy who won't get a shot confidence, it's Baker. 

[Icecube]

1 hour ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

This is a passive-aggressive garbage post by the OP. Nobody gives a shit about this final game, we are out of contention for the playoffs. There will be no “I told you so” if we win with Keenum, while the Bengals should damn well be resting their stud starters.

I’ll turn the tables. Last year was the “perfect storm” for Baker. In 2020, Baker benefited from the best o-line in the NFL and the best running game in the NFL. Stefanski made him look better than he did. We had no major injuries on offense outside of Odell in 2020, who Baker had zero chemistry with because Baker is a one read quarterback. This year our RB’s were banged up, we had injuries to the o-line, and we asked Baker to step up and be the man. He couldn’t do it.

Out of the last 20 years, including more than 100 QB’s, Baker is near dead last in 4^th quarter crunch time stats. He has no athleticism and has the mental/emotional maturity of a 12 year boy. We will never win a Super Bowl with him ever. This year wasn’t a down year for Baker, this year is the normal for Baker - you’re not going to have the number one o-line and running game each and every year. A quarterback needs to be able to pass the ball, not turn the ball over (Baker has more interceptions than any other QB since 2018 and we're a run heavy team), and lead us to a field goal or a touchdown in the 4^th quarter. It's not his shoulder, it's not the lack of a #1 WR - we had a #1WR and Baker sucked so bad he went to another team where he's scoring a touchdown every game. 

 

 

While everything you wrote is true, we still got to see Baker sans all the injuries to know what we got. I can't imagine trying to play an NFL QB with a busted shoulder, even it being the left, non-throwing one. I think the more glaring problem lies with a meddling owner. 

[Axe]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

While I tend to agree, I'm just hoping Baker's confidence isn't shot. The shoulder should heal, the mind is more of a concern. 

First the body, then the mind will follow

[nickers]

The first thing that needs to happen is we need to get the Tennesee Hucksters to sell the team to someone who knows wtf they are doing...

[Canton Dawg]

I wonder if Baker had serious thoughts of starting a home game, and likely getting boos from Browns fans before the game even started.

[MDDawg]

Nobody's going to think Case is the answer if he beats JV Bengals. Baker and Stefanski deserve all the criticism especially Stef as he should've played Case for the first Steeler's game.

[calfoxwc]

7 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

While I tend to agree, I'm just hoping Baker's confidence isn't shot. The shoulder should heal, the mind is more of a concern. 

I think his mind will be fine, he's always thrived vs adversity. But his reputation has taken a beating - from hater fans who don't understand it's a team game.

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I wonder if Baker had serious thoughts of starting a home game, and likely getting boos from Browns fans before the game even started.

Nope, MHO is Bakers agent told him if he started against the Bengals and had yet another shit game he could deduct at least $2 million off his next contract, if he ever gets one at all...  

And cripes sake Steve...  We can't level very legit criticism about Baker's crap play?  That makes us haters? Blow me- that makes us objective.  And now guys are taking the long view that his stats not only don't measure up to the elite QBs, but he's struggling to maintain a very mediocre sub Andy Dalton level of performance.  Bo-hoo, he's hurt, just like Rocky- I'm going to get in the ring regardless and get beaten to a pulp to take one for the team.  

 

[Westside Steve]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Nope, MHO is Bakers agent told him if he started against the Bengals and had yet another shit game he could deduct at least $2 million off his next contract, if he ever gets one at all...  

And cripes sake Steve...  We can't level very legit criticism about Baker's crap play?  That makes us haters? Blow me- that makes us objective.  And now guys are taking the long view that his stats not only don't measure up to the elite QBs, but he's struggling to maintain a very mediocre sub Andy Dalton level of performance.  Bo-hoo, he's hurt, just like Rocky- I'm going to get in the ring regardless and get beaten to a pulp to take one for the team.  

 

Apparently you've been drinking again. There are haters and there are apologists. Consider me the latter if you must. But that's not the point of the o p. Neither is this next sentence: Baker doesn't decide who starts at quarterback nor does he call the plays predictable or not. Kevin stefanski does. If we lost more games because of that that's his fault. Is it your opinion that Baker should have been benched at the point of the injury and gone straight to surgery?

If that's your opinion without any insult I think you're wrong. Aside from that if it was Stefanski's incorrect decision that's bad but if Jimmy Haslam ordered him to do it that's worse.

And again that's a discussion for the other thread. This one is about who will be the darling of the haters. Mariota? Bridgewater? Watson? Dalton? Bum off the street?

WSS

[Bob806]

20 hours ago, nickers said:

The first thing that needs to happen is we need to get the Tennesee Hucksters to sell the team to someone who knows wtf they are doing...

I think we all have a little bit of that in our head. The guy was a minority shareholder in the (despised) Steelers organization. As much as we hate the Steelers, they certainly seem to run their team in a well thought out manner.

I want to give Haslam some credit for laying low the last couple years. I think he realized he was meddling way too much, impeding any progress. 

Now comes the tough time for Haslam....the losing and finger pointing by players,fans, local & national sportswriters/broadcasters....can he remain in the background? Easy for me to say, he needs to TRUST Andrew Berry and let him handle things. 

Please, let's not go backwards & do the lather, rinse, repeat thing of firing everybody and starting over. 

[Kegeratorz]

11 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

from hater fans who don't understand it's a team game.

Sometimes I wonder if Baker understands it’s a team game?

[Icecube]

6 hours ago, Bob806 said:

I think we all have a little bit of that in our head. The guy was a minority shareholder in the (despised) Steelers organization. As much as we hate the Steelers, they certainly seem to run their team in a well thought out manner.

I want to give Haslam some credit for laying low the last couple years. I think he realized he was meddling way too much, impeding any progress. 

Now comes the tough time for Haslam....the losing and finger pointing by players,fans, local & national sportswriters/broadcasters....can he remain in the background? Easy for me to say, he needs to TRUST Andrew Berry and let him handle things. 

Please, let's not go backwards & do the lather, rinse, repeat thing of firing everybody and starting over. 

Word is that Jimmy has begun to do just that: meddling again. He's been since about halfway through the season, so hold on. 

[Gorka]

Funny that Baker never once woke up saying he felt dangerous.

Maybe with his injuries he knew his limitations.

 

[Orion]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:03 AM, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

I’ll turn the tables. Last year was the “perfect storm” for Baker. In 2020, Baker benefited from the best o-line in the NFL and the best running game in the NFL. Stefanski made him look better than he did. We had no major injuries on offense outside of Odell in 2020, who Baker had zero chemistry with because Baker is a one read quarterback. This year our RB’s were banged up, we had injuries to the o-line, and we asked Baker to step up and be the man. He couldn’t do it.

Out of the last 20 years, including more than 100 QB’s, Baker is near dead last in 4^th quarter crunch time stats. He has no athleticism and has the mental/emotional maturity of a 12 year boy. We will never win a Super Bowl with him ever. This year wasn’t a down year for Baker, this year is the normal for Baker - you’re not going to have the number one o-line and running game each and every year. A quarterback needs to be able to pass the ball, not turn the ball over .....and lead us to a field goal or a touchdown in the 4^th quarter. It's not his shoulder, it's not the lack of a #1 WR - we had a #1WR and Baker sucked so bad he went to another team where he's scoring a touchdown every game. 

...that certainly is not going to be a popular view.  But it is a well stated view.  Baker has had 4 years to show that he's great.  But he really hasn't.  And I'd have liked to have been in the meeting room with Berry and OBJ after OBJ's Dad's tweet.  What did OBJ have to say?  Could it have been something like, "The QB is not too good.  The coach wants 3 TE's and 2 thousand yard RB's.  My stats and value are going to go into the shitter here.  I don't want to be here".   If he felt the QB wasn't gettin' him to a SB then I can see a guy like OBJ plotting to get out.

Early on, I felt like we had a chance at the end of games with Baker.  Perhaps mostly because I hadn't felt ANYTHING like that in the previous 20 years.  But over Baker's 4 years I gradually lost that feeling.  And the reason is mostly because he DOESN'T bring us down the field for the wins.  He may make some throws, mixed with some Chubb long runs and scores...and we get out to a nice lead....but we're always trying to cling on to that lead.

Baker has had some good games.  But he's had too many not too good games.  We need better than that from our QB to win a championship.  Whether that's attainable any time soon...who knows right now.  We may have to ride with Baker.  All that said, he's still about the best QB we've had this century....but, the bar wasn't incredibly high.

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

...that certainly is not going to be a popular view.  But it is a well stated view.  Baker has had 4 years to show that he's great.  But he really hasn't.  And I'd have liked to have been in the meeting room with Berry and OBJ after OBJ's Dad's tweet.  What did OBJ have to say?  Could it have been something like, "The QB is not too good.  The coach wants 3 TE's and 2 thousand yard RB's.  My stats and value are going to go into the shitter here.  I don't want to be here".   If he felt the QB wasn't gettin' him to a SB then I can see a guy like OBJ plotting to get out.

Early on, I felt like we had a chance at the end of games with Baker.  Perhaps mostly because I hadn't felt ANYTHING like that in the previous 20 years.  But over Baker's 4 years I gradually lost that feeling.  And the reason is mostly because he DOESN'T bring us down the field for the wins.  He may make some throws, mixed with some Chubb long runs and scores...and we get out to a nice lead....but we're always trying to cling on to that lead.

Baker has had some good games.  But he's had too many not too good games.  We need better than that from our QB to win a championship.  Whether that's attainable any time soon...who knows right now.  We may have to ride with Baker.  All that said, he's still about the best QB we've had this century....but, the bar wasn't incredibly high.

As much as I hate to admit it... Baker is becoming a cancer...

[Vambo]

 

[Browns149]

33 minutes ago, nickers said:

As much as I hate to admit it... Baker is becoming a cancer...

He would be better off to go dark on social media and just have surgery, go to Texas and rehab in silence 

But he won’t