Baker Mayfield

[jbluhm86]

Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not  Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

You only watched the opening drive then and proceeded to shut your eyes immediately after.

See how Josh Johnson has been playing since when the Cincy defense isn't exchanging yards for time?   

He's at 47% since that drive.

So, I fell asleep. lol. Good call... dammit. Great food. My Wife told me how it ended. Now, We'll see the Chiefs play without Kelce and how it goes. Great Christmas food leftovers! And my own recipe pumpkin pie .... is way too good.

[Browns149]

If Desaun Watson isn’t in jail, he is who the Browns need to go after. He is actually 5 months younger then Baker

And he is a proven, pro bowl player. With MVP potential. 
Plus he is already signed to a contract, that by next year, will be team friendly 

[Unsympathetic]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

I'm speculating that Wilson is on the decline. He, like Baker this season had/has injury problems

At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.  

Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.

[Browns149]

18 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.  

Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.

Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland 

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, Browns149 said:

Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland 

So who then? NYG?

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Browns149 said:

If Desaun Watson isn’t in jail, he is who the Browns need to go after. He is actually 5 months younger then Baker

And he is a proven, pro bowl player. With MVP potential. 
Plus he is already signed to a contract, that by next year, will be team friendly 

Problem is... Great- the Browns offer the Texans Baker, but that's not going to be close to enough.  Berry won't trade away a truckload of picks to get a guy with questionable moral issues. 

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not  Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.

Overall, I agree jb... BUT if Baker posts a couple more stinko 50ish qbrs in the last two games, and the Browns go 7-10? MHO is Baker isn't going to have the starters job gift wrapped for him in 2022.   

That Mayfield is Mr. Anti-clutch with the game on the line- should already be giving Berry cause for concern. 

[hx214]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

So who then? NYG?

That was the rumor.

Then he came out and said he ain't leaving and plans to be in Seattle for 20 more years

Type his name into Google though. 20 teams names pop up as reported suitors.

Sounds like a massive price tag to me. And he just lost to the Bears... Against Nick Foles. 

[Browns149]

2 hours ago, Bob806 said:

So who then? NYG?

Yes

[Dutch Oven]

I won't lie, I chuckled when I came across this today.... 

[Browns149]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I won't lie, I chuckled when I came across this today.... 

It was Christmas.  The season of giving 

[Furious Styles]

9 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.

I’d pass on this “Riddle” guy whoever that is 😐

[gumby73]

17 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.

Well thought out/fair post...

So we have our system QB in 26 y.o. Nick Mullins...  size says 6' 1" (which looks shorter walking up to full grown *** men in the trenches)

I'm a favorite of accurate 6'3/6'4 QB's... Mayfield/Mullins all read of size just over 6ft...(bs) Corral/Zappe/Howell/Willis fall into here

So we need to agree on a better than< Nick Mullins future? Drafting such in 2nd or 3rd round? (Much after pick 50-75 is a real dice roll in this draft totally)

Pickett 6'3'.... Ridder 6'4.....Carson Strong 6'4"..... Tanner McKee 6'6"

Well... I think I may have a 4 man list? 🤔

Nick Mullins--- Undrafted... from Brett Farve St of Southern Miss.... Verse a Fab 4?             stay tuned......

 

[Chicopee John]

OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.

Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO:  Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.

Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB.  However, he has little to nothing between the ears.

If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake.  Talk about his injuries all you want.

He is WAY overhyped.  MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs.   Maybe in the bottom third.

I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer

 

FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.

 

 

 

 

[hoorta]

10 hours ago, Furious Styles said:

I’d pass on this “Riddle” guy whoever that is 😐

Well, he's the quarterback of THE Cincinnati Bearcats. You'll have a chance to scout him this Friday when they play Alabama in the National semifinals.

[SdBacker80]

Just say no to Mitchell Trubisky.  

Nick Mullins ain’t the guy and has never been the guy.

Deshaun Watson…Is intriguing…although comes with a price tag and whatever baggage he may or may not be cleared of.  So I’m leaning to no…and by some accounts he is touch passer (not a rifle arm that is needed off the shores of Lake Erie).

Jimmy G.- is a better or worse version of Baker Mayfield depending on the Sunday.  

and now the they won’t come here because it is the Browns…

But why…you have arguably the best lines and backfield in all of football and WR corp that can be fixed/patched up quickly. 

Aaron Rodgers- has he mended the fence with the Packers FO?  If it is no- he’s got to be in play.  We have some guys in their prime the time is now. 
 

Russ- has never had a line or backfield that he would have in Cleveland.  Can live here from August to January and then be anywhere else he wants.  Is he sticking around post Pete (he’s a goner in a couple weeks).

Draftees- Pickett (first round) and Tanner Morgan (3rd day gamble) both worth developing IMO.

 

 

[hoorta]

32 minutes ago, Chicopee John said:

OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.

Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO:  Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.

Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB.  However, he has little to nothing between the ears.

If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake.  Talk about his injuries all you want.

He is WAY overhyped.  MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs.   Maybe in the bottom third.

I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer

FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.

Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.  

FWIW, I don't much fault picking up OBJ or Baker. Kyler Murray came out of the same college and system, seems to be doing OK, and he's even shorter than Mayfield.  

If you've been following,  our resident film breakdown guru has well documented Baker's numerous failures to make post snap adjustments to what the defense is doing though. 

We could have done a lot worse than  Baker in 2018. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen qualify as first round busts. Cal's fave Josh Allen has miraculously improved his accuracy,  and it remains to be seen how good Lamar Jackson will be when he no longer has the wheels of a Kareem Hunt.  

[tiamat63]

23 minutes ago, hoorta said:

 

If you've been following,  our resident film breakdown guru has well documented Baker's numerous failures to make post snap adjustments to what the defense is doing though. 

Aww, shucks. You shouldn't have.

[Chicopee John]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.  

Same to you, Larry.  Also to your Little Feat - lovin' wife!

I take no pride in coming out of hibernation, only to blast the Browns.  I'd like nothing better than for Mayfield to prove me wrong and for folks to tell me I was wrong, wrong, wrong.   Lord knows, folks around here are laughing at me for predicting the Browns would be playing in the AFC Championship Game this year.

PS  Did the OBJ pickup remind you of the Andre Rison acquisition - the outcomes, at least.

Health and Happiness in 2022

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Notes:

Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.

I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.

But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit

number one.

    Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.

   Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.

I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).

   First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.

With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.

    And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.

The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.

You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.

So, there ya go...that's how I see it.

[SdBacker80]

28 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Notes:

Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.

I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.

But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit

number one.

    Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.

   Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.

I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).

   First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.

With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.

    And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.

The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.

You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.

So, there ya go...that's how I see it.

A few responses to some of these comments…

1. Keenum did step up and beat a .500 football team and it looked like the coaching staff had more trust in Keenum than they had with Mullens.

2.There’s a lot more to Murray than just having better WRs.  He moves much better in the pocket and outside of the pocket and He’s more accurate whether inside or outside of the pocket.  Two critical traits that make or break a QB.  And When the play breaks down (which happens 20-25%) there aren’t too many others I would take over Murray.

3.The Browns have the best engine (Oline) in the league. And it would like 10x better if our QB could process coverage quickly. 

[tiamat63]

Aaron Rodgers stats without Adams.

10-1 W/L, by the way. 

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-game-log-without-davante-adams

 

Why? Rodgers is an elite QB.   Having Adams makes the offense dangerous. But Even without him the offense is efficient, consistent and good. That's because Rodgers, not the skill  players, not the Oline and not the running game, is the foundation of GB.

 

It's a QB driven league.

[SkippinTurtles]

For competition sake, this team could have taken Mayfield and Josh Allen.  Maybe Allen never would have developed here.  CB's like Ward are potentially great.  Not like a freaky talent QB prospect when you have the 1st and 4th pick in the draft.  DB's don't change your franchise.

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, Zombo said:

I say we stick with Baker Mayfield.

He's on a team-friendly contract next year, and should be healthy, which should mean another playoff year like 2020.

I like him.

Z

So do the Packers, the Ravens and Patriots.

 

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Aaron Rodgers stats without Adams.

10-1 W/L, by the way. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-game-log-without-davante-adams

Why? Rodgers is an elite QB.   Having Adams makes the offense dangerous. But Even without him the offense is efficient, consistent and good. That's because Rodgers, not the skill  players, not the Oline and not the running game, is the foundation of GB.

It's a QB driven league.

Odd, I clicked on Green Bay every single year, and Devonte Adams was there with a lot of catches. He missed some games and they still won. OK, but that is 114 games over all the years that they DID have Adams playing. It's a team game. Did they lose games because Rodgers was just an "average" qb? Did Rodgers ever play most of a season with a broken shoulder, badly torn labrum ?

Makes some folks wonder how Rodgers would have done with no Adams. That's 652 catches for 7,930 yards they would have lacked.

  Rodgers is great, so on, and so on. But Rodgers would have suffered badly had he gone to the Browns.

Baker piloted them to the playoffs last year. This year is a debacle. Getting rid of Baker does not fix the wide receiver problem the Browns have had for some years.

https://www.nfl.com/players/davante-adams/stats/career

Receiving

YEAR	TEAM	G	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	1st	1st%	20+	40+
TOTAL		114	652	7930	12.2	436	72	397	60.89	102	25
2021	Green Bay Packers	14	106	1362	12.9	59	10	73	68.87	18	4
2020	Green Bay Packers	14	115	1374	12	56	18	73	63.48	18	5
2019	Green Bay Packers	12	83	997	12	58	5	54	65.06	12	2
2018	Green Bay Packers	15	111	1386	12.5	57	13	64	57.66	18	5
2017	Green Bay Packers	14	74	885	12	55	10	45	60.81	8	3
2016	Green Bay Packers	16	75	997	13.3	66	12	45	60	17	4
2015	Green Bay Packers	13	50	483	9.7	40	1	20	40	6	1
2014	Green Bay Packers	16	38	446	11.7	45	3	23	60.53	5	1

[Dutch Oven]

13 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Odd, I clicked on Green Bay every single year, and Devonte Adams was there with a lot of catches.

https://www.nfl.com/players/davante-adams/stats/career

Receiving

YEAR	TEAM	G	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	1st	1st%	20+	40+
TOTAL		114	652	7930	12.2	436	72	397	60.89	102	25
2021	Green Bay Packers	14	106	1362	12.9	59	10	73	68.87	18	4
2020	Green Bay Packers	14	115	1374	12	56	18	73	63.48	18	5
2019	Green Bay Packers	12	83	997	12	58	5	54	65.06	12	2
2018	Green Bay Packers	15	111	1386	12.5	57	13	64	57.66	18	5
2017	Green Bay Packers	14	74	885	12	55	10	45	60.81	8	3
2016	Green Bay Packers	16	75	997	13.3	66	12	45	60	17	4
2015	Green Bay Packers	13	50	483	9.7	40	1	20	40	6	1
2014	Green Bay Packers	16	38	446	11.7	45	3	23	60.53	5	1

Jesus, you are dense.

Yes, he's played in a lot of games, but if you take 12 seconds anyone with third grade math skills can see he's missed some games over his career.

And lo and behold, tia has produced a fact that Aaron Rodgers is 10-1 in his career in games Adams has not played.

It's not as difficult as you always make every thing, cal. 

[tiamat63]

50 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

Makes some folks wonder how Rodgers would have done with no Adams. 

 

Without Adams? ....... Rodgers won a super bowl with two 2nd round WR's and a 6th round rookie RB who didn't take his first NFL snap until December of said rookie season. 

Even more funny - Rodgers averages 66.5% comp without Adam's.  Meanwhile your benchmark for Bakers "return to form" season of 2020 he averaged 62.8% comp. 

Rodgers is damn near 4% full points higher than Baker - WITHOUT Adams, compared to Mayfield's best season. That also includes a higher average in passing attempts as well vs Bakers 2020 average.  

 Any skill player currently on the Browns roster becomes an absolute weapon with Rodgers throwing to them.  Meanwhile do you think Devonte puts up similar stats if he swapped places and came to CLE?   Why is that?

So the difference has to be the level of play from your signal caller.

Elite QB's take average skill players and make them good. There is a long history to speak to this.     The other way around? Not so much.  

[calfoxwc]

49 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Without Adams? ....... Rodgers won a super bowl with two 2nd round WR's and a 6th round rookie RB who didn't take his first NFL snap until December of said rookie season. 

Even more funny - Rodgers averages 66.5% comp without Adam's.  Meanwhile your benchmark for Bakers "return to form" season of 2020 he averaged 62.8% comp. 

Rodgers is damn near 4% full points higher than Baker - WITHOUT Adams, compared to Mayfield's best season. That also includes a higher average in passing attempts as well vs Bakers 2020 average.  

 Any skill player currently on the Browns roster becomes an absolute weapon with Rodgers throwing to them.  Meanwhile do you think Devonte puts up similar stats if he swapped places and came to CLE?   Why is that?

So the difference has to be the level of play from your signal caller.

Elite QB's take average skill players and make them good. There is a long history to speak to this.     The other way around? Not so much.  

and how long has Rodgers been playing the same system? with the same coaches? How long has he been in the league?

All sorts of qb;s who were NOT elite have been to the superbowl. They had defenses and talented players around them to get them there. Baker is hurt, still playing, which I thought before the squealers game he should have sat on the bench....and he doesn't have a star wr to make the offense work right. and a rookie coach last year. another new system.

It's more complicated than "Baker sucks, any other qb because I'm mad we didn't get to the playoffs maybe"

Baker isn't Rodgers, he isn't easily replaceable when healthy.

Like I said earlier, Brady laid an egg two games ago - couldn't even muster a field goal. Your idea of "the qb makes the wr's around him superstars" whatever.....I just disagree with. The Bucs lost 9-0. But, Both Evans and Godwin were hurt. Zero points.

Did Brady forget how to "raise the level of play" etc etc ? nope. He didn't have his star wr's, that is what the story is.

Furthermore, look at the difference between Brady and Gronkowski, and  Brady without Gronkowski - a star elite TE makes a huge difference.

So, Baker doesn't even have a #1 wr on the roster. Give him a star wr and see how much a huge difference that makes.

If the Browns want to upgrade, I'm happy with it. It will have to be PIckett, Strong or Corral, and they will probably all be gone if the Brown win their last two games.

I don't care who the qb is - if wr's don't get open, he can't throw completions to them a lot of the time. Outside of Landry - vs man to man, nope. That's why Higgins hasn't played much at all. I just wish Schwartz could have made a bigger difference his first year.

    Baker got the Browns to the playoffs last year. Do you think that Devonte Adams would not have made any difference?

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

and how long has Rodgers been playing the same system? with the same coaches? How long has he been in the league?

All sorts of qb;s who were NOT elite have been to the superbowl. They had defenses and talented players around them to get them there. Baker is hurt, still playing, which I thought before the squealers game he should have sat on the bench....and he doesn't have a star wr to make the offense work right. and a rookie coach last year. another new system.

It's more complicated than "Baker sucks, any other qb because I'm mad we didn't get to the playoffs maybe"

Baker isn't Rodgers, he isn't easily replaceable when healthy.

Like I said earlier, Brady laid an egg two games ago - couldn't even muster a field goal. Your idea of "the qb makes the wr's around him superstars" whatever.....I just disagree with. The Bucs lost 9-0. But, Both Evans and Godwin were hurt. Zero points.

Did Brady forget how to "raise the level of play" etc etc ? nope. He didn't have his star wr's, that is what the story is.

Furthermore, look at the difference between Brady and Gronkowski, and  Brady without Gronkowski - a star elite TE makes a huge difference.

So, Baker doesn't even have a #1 wr on the roster. Give him a star wr and see how much a huge difference that makes.

If the Browns want to upgrade, I'm happy with it. It will have to be PIckett, Strong or Corral, and they will probably all be gone if the Brown win their last two games.

I don't care who the qb is - if wr's don't get open, he can't throw completions to them a lot of the time. Outside of Landry - vs man to man, nope. That's why Higgins hasn't played much at all. I just wish Schwartz could have made a bigger difference his first year.

    Baker got the Browns to the playoffs last year. Do you think that Devonte Adams would not have made any difference?

Cal, you're just arguing in circles. 

1) Baker isn't an "elite" qb by a long shot.  Pretty good, if everything around him is perfect.

2) If  you think a super stud WR is going to make a huge difference in his play. I disagree on a couple counts. 1) He's a 1\2 second slow 90% of the time getting the ball out. 2) When his #1 option is covered, he dances like a ballerina trying to go through his progressions, and takes far too many needless sacks. 3) Way too often he's forcing the ball into coverage, while if he had better field vision- he'd notice there's other WRs who are wide open.  

3) Yeah, Brady had a lousy game against the Saints- even the great ones do on occasion. Only game this year he's been under a 60 qbr...  Don't think you can say that for Baker. 

4) Aw, he's hurt. You get zero sympathy points from the opposition.