Baker Mayfield

[calfoxwc]

Baker is terrific. His only weakness may be that he can't run and juke like Mahommes or Lamar Jackson. Speaking off, Jackson looked pitiful throwing vs the Bengals. I he couldn't run like a frightened jackrabbit, I don't know that he would be in the NFL.  Keeping him in the pocket is the hard part, and stopping him from throwing to a wide open Edwards is another thing.

Baker is seriously accomplished stats wise. He is the first Brown qb that I think is as smart as Bernie Kosar.

Strictly from a layman's point of view - do NOT start Baker vs the squealers. He's turn. "He won't hurt it worse" was ok to try until

his bone was broken. Gotta admire his desire to win, lead and leave it all out on the field every second of every game.

My concern is, he keeps injuring an injured shoulder, and repeated dislocations happen - it would stretch ligaments, damage cartilage, etc and ruin his career eventually. Let him heal, keep him on the sidelines. Keenum can play the game, he showed that already. The Browns won, and I figure his first game - instinctively he was a little rusty.

   Especially with both backup tackles out - I figure Wills will be fine in ten days...hopefully Conklin will be back.

"let Baker play" sounds pretty, but beauty is only skin deep. And the Browns will win the next couple of games with Keenum and they will be 6-3.

But it will take more than a few weeks for the fracture to truly heal, apparently.

https://woundcaresociety.org/long-fracture-take-heal

When it comes to different body parts, average healing times can span from three to ten weeks. For finger fractures, the average healing time lasts about three weeks,  metacarpal bones take four to six weeks, wrist fractures take four to six weeks as well, and lower arm will heal in eight to ten weeks. Humerus, a bone that runs from your shoulder to your elbow will need six to eight weeks to get back to normal, femur will need a little more than twelve weeks, and tibia, the bone that goes from your knees to your ankles will take about ten weeks to heal.

 

[hoorta]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:23 PM, D Bone said:

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired.  As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process.  MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the  first place Bengals in Cinci. 

7 hours ago, lodilobo said:

Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.

Well, Mahomes stunk against the  Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for  Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry  had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game.  The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency.  Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder,  but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit. 

Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as  Peyton. I'll happily take a couple  Super Bowl wins.

He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson.  However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive. 

[lodilobo]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired.  As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process.  MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the  first place Bengals in Cinci. 

Well, Mahomes stunk against the  Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for  Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry  had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game.  The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency.  Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder,  but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit. 

Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as  Peyton. I'll happily take a couple  Super Bowl wins.

He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson.  However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive. 

I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.

RE: Lamar- maybe.  Jackson gets away with a lot of crap because of his running ability. If you watched any of the Ravens- Bengals game, Cinci gave a clinic on how to contain him. And he took a bunch of serious hits both in the pocket and trying to run. He's a tough dude, but it's just a matter of time before he takes a kill shot that's going to limit his running ability.  

PS- watching that game, MHO- the Browns made a serious mistake letting Ogunjobi walk- he's playing lights out for the Bengals.   

[hoorta]

A few more random thoughts about Baker & the Browns... Is it his fault the Chargers put up 47 points against the Browns? It's been mentioned- the first time in NFL history a team scored 40+ points with zero turnovers- and lost.  Fire the defense, and trade Garrett immediately.   

Comparison wise- are any of you going to try and tell me Ryan Tannehill who's team just clobbered the Chiefs (Titan Up!!!) is any better than Mayfield? I don't think so. Some guys are never going to be happy regardless. We get a decent quarterback after 20 years in the football desert- and now that's not good enough- we need an all- time GOAT. FWIW, should the Browns win their next two games- we're right where we need to be. In the AFC- everyone is beating everyone else. 

Finally- practice today- Chubb and Conklin are back. Yay!!!  Baker was not. Reinforces my opinion. Sit him against the Steelers.  

[Neo]

I'm really at a loss for words right now when it comes to being a Browns fan. It seems there are people out there who don't want you to be happy no matter what, just doing whatever they can to drain whatever joy you have out of you. All this talk about wanting Baker to be traded for nobodies like Tua or whatever garbage qb is just disheartening. 

I have been critical of Baker but am not ready to give up on him by a long shot. It not just about winning,  it's about culture change and Baker leaves it all on the field. I cannot believe some of the shit I've read on this board and other places on the interwebs. He's already proved he can be a winner, he has proved he can improve, and he proved he can win playoff games. Give him a fucking chance and be patient!

[hoorta]

13 minutes ago, Neo said:

I'm really at a loss for words right now when it comes to being a Browns fan. It seems there are people out there who don't want you to be happy no matter what, just doing whatever they can to drain whatever joy you have out of you. All this talk about wanting Baker to be traded for nobodies like Tua or whatever garbage qb is just disheartening. 

I have been critical of Baker but am not ready to give up on him by a long shot. It not just about winning,  it's about culture change and Baker leaves it all on the field. I cannot believe some of the shit I've read on this board and other places on the interwebs. He's already proved he can be a winner, he has proved he can improve, and he proved he can win playoff games. Give him a fucking chance and be patient!

I've said it in the past- the Browns could win the Super Bowl and some of the Negative Nancys would tell you- we shoulda beat them worse..  

PS- I didn't want to edit my previous post, but the latest from the Blue Medical Tent is the Docs are telling Stefanski that Baker shouldn't play until he can reasonably protect himself from unnecessary hits.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

 PS- I didn't want to edit my previous post, but the latest from the Blue Medical Tent is the Docs are telling Stefanski that Baker shouldn't play until he can reasonably protect himself from unnecessary hits.  

I hate to say it, but for Baker's long term health and career it might be best to shut him down and have the surgery now. 

[Tour2ma]

31 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I hate to say it, but for Baker's long term health and career it might be best to shut him down and have the surgery now. 

Be still my heart...

[jiggins7919]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:23 PM, D Bone said:

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

This really breaks my heart. I tend to agree with you, but I don't think Case has enough to beat decent teams. That wind really affected his deep ball and I don't see the weather improving until around next June. We absolutely dominated the last game and only won by THREE. I definitely do not trust our defense, no matter of we on it gave up 14 points. If we didn't run out the clock and we punted, we would have lost that game. I'm sure of it. We need more points, we need more striking ability, and I think we need a defensive TD this Sunday in order to win. 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Be still my heart...

Nah Tour.. I'm 100% certain Baker is going to play sometime this season. Me and Ballpeen are also pretty upbeat that the Browns can handle the Steelers at home with Keenum at the controls. 

The following week on the road against the red hot Bengals? Not so much. 

[Neo]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

upbeat that the Browns can handle the Steelers at home with Keenum at the controls. 

The Steelers know we are hurting and Keenum will be running the show. Look for them to be throwing haymakers right out of the gate on both sides of the ball. If they can jump on us early and set the tone of the game, I don't think Keenum has a chance if we have to abandon our running game early. 

And we have to see how Stephanski calls the game. He's had a couple of head scatchers this year. 

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'm 100% certain Baker is going to play sometime this season.

If reapir by scope is possible then, yes...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

If reapir by scope is possible then, es...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

Scoping the shoulder might clean up some of the junk- but my research told me with a completely torn labrum- you have to do surgery to reattach it to the bone..  4 weeks healing time, minimum... That, and another 4-6 weeks of rehab to regain strength in the affected arm.  

LOL, Zombo told me Baker isn't my wife- true dat. But when Sue busted her humeral head in a ski accident- once she got her arm out of a sling, she couldn't even lift the affected arm to shoulder height.  

[Dutch Oven]

46 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If reapir by scope is possible then, yes...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Scoping the shoulder might clean up some of the junk- but my research told me with a completely torn labrum- you have to do surgery to reattach it to the bone..  4 weeks healing time, minimum... That, and another 4-6 weeks of rehab to regain strength in the affected arm.  

let's all first agree this may not be factual... he's not Baker's doctor... but, I've followed him for years, and he's mostly been spot on..

 

if i read questionable Friday? I also think Baker's a go 🤞

 

[jiggins7919]

Soooooooo, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I did totally tear my labrum and had the surgery. First off, the surgery wasn't bad, but the rehab was miserable. It felt like my shoulder would never be ok and it took months to get back to healthy. If he has a labrum surgery, he's gone. That simple. 

Case Keenum cannot win enough games to get us into the playoffs, that's the bottom line in my head. We absolutely dominated the Broncos and won by 3 effing points. That's not good enough. We can talk all day about how great our running game is but unless we get a vertical strike threat, we're toast. Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust. 

The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line. 

 

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust. 

Literal lol 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

And yet another?

 

 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

You call your friend an asshole this instant!

[Tour2ma]

We knew Schwartz was a raw sprinter when we drafted him.... give him some time.

[Tour2ma]

Oy vey....

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/baker-mayfield-still-hopes-to-face-the-steelers-sunday-and-definitely-has-a-chance-browns-insider.html

[hoorta]

23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Oy vey....

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/baker-mayfield-still-hopes-to-face-the-steelers-sunday-and-definitely-has-a-chance-browns-insider.html

Me and Z have been going at it..  Mayfield would want to play with a broken left arm, just put it in a cast, I'll be fine.....  Sorry Baker... you playing against the Steelers is a bbbbbbaaaaaddddd idea. Take another week off to get ready for the Bengals.  Case can handle those pesky Squealers for you.   

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

LOL, Zombo told me Baker isn't my wife- true dat. But when Sue busted her humeral head in a ski accident- once she got her arm out of a sling, she couldn't even lift the affected arm to shoulder height.  

when I had a rotator cuff completely popped apart, after surgery, my arm hardly worked much at all. ya end up doing "itsy bitsy spider crawls up the wall" (cute little physical therapist gal laughed at the look on my face when she explained it to me) exercises to work to get the ability to lift your arm again. As long as they can win with Keenum, Baker should stay on the bench. Nick Mullens still hasn't played much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the arm to make all the throws effectively. If Baker has to have surgery sooner rather than later... I can see signing Cam Newton to have a legit backup for the rest of the season.

[jrb12711]

14 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line. 

 

I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.

Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.

The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.

[tiamat63]

I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.

[calfoxwc]

23 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.

The Browns can pretty much bet that the Steelers will "stack the box".... the Broncos tried to stuff the run to start the game like other teams, but the Browns came out throwing the ball first drive. First play of the game, I believe. It goes back, again, to Bernie Kosar loving to throw a long throw on the first play once in a while, just to get into the defense's heads. I still think Stef has run too often on first down.

The "we will run on them..." thing gets to a point where they know you want to establish the run, so they work to stop the run. Then they can pick their blitzes on second and/or third down and long hopefully. It seems that Wills at LT is a key to the game. Another is, Hance really played well at RT.  Be unpredictable. ON defense, stop with the loose zone. It loses football games all too often against excellent wr's and good quarterbacks.

[ballpeen]

My feeling is if we are looking at Baker long term, we sit him for a while.  If not and don't care if he gets fucked up, play him.

[Unsympathetic]

32 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.

They're both on IR.

Alualu fractured his ankle on 9/19. Tuitt has an as-yet-undisclosed knee injury from training camp that teams don't have to reveal if on IR.. but he's played zero 2021 snaps.

 

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.

right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..