the browns plan at QB going forward.

[Silver slayer]

They are 29th against the run

5th against the pass

9th overall defense in yards per game 

We're 2nd overall

3rd against the pass

3rd against the run 

 

We're #2 at not giving up 1st downs (60)

They are 20th (86)

[hoorta]

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Wait, what?  By design a 2 high removes an extra defender from the box. That is why it's literally called a box count - numbers.   The commitment to the running game tends to force the additional body to help limit damage.  Yes, this opens things up vertically in different ways across the field. 

Odell and Schwartz can run past anyone they wish, if Baker can't reliably get them the ball (because he is in fact injured and you refuse to acknowledge that reality) then we have a serious issue.

There is no failure of logic on my part. I've detailed this rather plainly. So now you're just bordering on insults.    

It isn't that hard to say "I disagree and we'll see how this plays out". Which is where I think we'll leave this for now.

Yeah, a 100% healthy Baker, I'd be more confident that he's due to have a rebound game. But he's not 100% healthy.  A torn labrum takes time to heal. Z saying "I just know he's going to have a great game" is just hoping he will. For the record so do I. As the Boomer says "that's why they play the game". 

[hoorta]

55 minutes ago, Zombo said:

The failed logic in this thread is that Baker's passes are going to sail on him like they did last week. He won't allow that, I'm telling you right  now.

Z

If anyone's logic is failing, it's probably yours. Just might happen Baker's mind will tell him "I can do it", but his body won't. 

[SdBacker80]

37 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, a 100% healthy Baker, I'd be more confident that he's due to have a rebound game. But he's not 100% healthy.  A torn labrum takes time to heal. Z saying "I just know he's going to have a great game" is just hoping he will. For the record so do I. As the Boomer says "that's why they play the game". 

I don’t think anyone is denying he is hurt and the injury is likely contributing to his accuracy issues.  He will adapt this year with the injury.

I counted six passes last week four of which had TD potential the other two were set for 25-30 plus yard gains.  0 for 6 in those spots.  He hits on two of those we win 28-7 against a playoff caliber opponent in their building (a team we dominated in all other facets but QB play).  
 

If I had to think about this week I’d definitely say that Baker misses on a  few again…but 0 for 6?  
 

I love the Chargers safeties.  Nasir Adderely is an emerging Pro Bowl talent.  We know about Derwin James.  They will March up to the line of scrimmage if we don’t hit a couple and if we go 0 for 6 again - we will likely lose…but I think a few of us on here are betting against that.  
 

Edit: I watched some of the Vikings game…wow the Vikings back 7 tackled really well. The Chargers better do the same we were a couple shoe string partial turf Monster assists from breaking big ones
 

 

 

 

[SdBacker80]

45 minutes ago, Silver slayer said:

They are 29th against the run

5th against the pass

9th overall defense in yards per game 

We're 2nd overall

3rd against the pass

3rd against the run 

 

We're #2 at not giving up 1st downs (60)

They are 20th (86)

29th against the run and one of the games was the Chiefs.  Anyone remember what the Chiefs run game looked like against the Browns?  Zeke and his backup did a number against them too.
 

The Test will be this week for them and the following week against the Ravens.  

[Unsympathetic]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

a 2 high removes an extra defender from the box

Counting the box, yes.. OSU [now] has its CB's come down in run-support once run is identified..

Helps out by forcing a cut towards the center of the field on jet sweeps and the far-outside pitches.

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Counting the box, yes.. OSU [now] has its CB's come down in run-support once run is identified.. Helps out on jet sweeps and the far-outside pitches..

CB's are always in the run fits when they're flat/cloud defenders.  Even then, when you're in a deep 1/3 you still have to get downhill and limit runs that might beat the spill & run force.

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Zombo said:

The insulting part is that you assume I don't understand defenses. I'm the one that had to bring you back to reality when you thought Andrew Billings was going to be the anchor of our defense, remember?

 

Me:

"I think you might be too quick to dismiss Billings earning another contract with the Browns should his level of play from the 2019 season carry over to 2021."

 

You

"Yes we have his rights for a year, him playing himself into another contract is one scenario. Point it is, its a position that needs addressed as we move forward". 

- April 18th

 

The man was a top 10 IDL in terms of run stop percentage when he was with his best years in Cincy.   There was no "reality" you brought me back to.   Malik McDowell however, IS the outlier.   That just rarely happens.

 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Zombo said:

You are betting on an outlier as if it were a trend. There is no way Baker repeats that performance, no way.

Hopefully he gains your respect this week.

Z

Sorry Z I worked in Laboratory Medicine for 40 years. 60% < 70% against the Bears is your outlier...  45% is definitely < 70%. You can call it whatever you like- I'll call that a trend. 

OK, great- Baker goes back to his 70% completion percentage against the Chargers, you can come back here Sunday evening and tell me- and everyone else "TOLD YA SO"....  I'll bet you a six pack of Joe Thomas Great Lakes he won't. 

 

 

  

[nickers]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Sorry Z I worked in Laboratory Medicine for 40 years. 60% < 70% against the Bears is your outlier...  45% is definitely < 70%. You can call it whatever you like- I'll call that a trend. 

OK, great- Baker goes back to his 70% completion percentage against the Chargers, you can come back here Sunday evening and tell me- and everyone else "TOLD YA SO"....  I'll bet you a six pack of Joe Thomas Great Lakes he won't. 

 

 

  

So you admit you're a "Lab Rat" 😂

[calfoxwc]

meanwhile, Garrett is "questionable" vs the Chargers (Cleveland.com) but is fully expecting to play.

Chris Hubbard is RULE OUT.

So, if Wills can't go.....

Hudson at LT ?

Nick Harris is now on injured reserve.... hope Tretter doesn't have to leave the game.

The Browns will have a tough game, but I still believe they win.

The Chargers might stop the run for a little while, then they rampage all over them, and the Browns will run more screens with Hunt, Felton and Schwartz. The latter will have his biggest game yet, I think.

and Baker not have the same bad game two games in a row. bank on it. He's proven it his entire life.

My concern is at LT - and Baker gets a big hit again on that shoulder, could be Keenum steps up. The Browns will still win.

[Dutch Oven]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

3) A healthy Herbert is better than a dinged Baker.

An argument can be made that a healthy Herbert is better than a healthy Baker. 

[tiamat63]

6 hours ago, Zombo said:

Oh, I can find example after example of you talking about how important Billings was, and me telling you to chill on that guy. 

You were an arrogant fuck then too, acting like you needed to explain defenses to me.

I was telling you that Billings was just a guy long before we found a better guy.

Z

Billings position was/is important.  

You telling me to "chill" on him is  more of an understanding that Richardson and Jackson wouldn't get it done alone.  

McDowell coming out of nowhere was damn near a minor miracle.  Again, him taking that much time off just doesn't happen. 

So I place my belief in proven NFL players of Billings caliber until they demonstrate they Can't be effective. That's hardly arrogant, that's actually pragmatic. 

[hoorta]

9 hours ago, nickers said:

So you admit you're a "Lab Rat" 😂

Hospitals don't keep rats in their labs anymore.  I will say the level of sophistication between the 1970s and now is stunning. I've been retired going on 5 years, and my wife took me on a tour of their core lab that services multiple hospitals. Unless it's some weird specialty test it's hands off. You just put a bar coded tube on a rack and it's off to grand prix land.  Follows a track around the lab and stops at the instruments that know what tests to run on it. 

FWIW, my specialty was Transfusion Medicine  (Blood Banking). In Dayton's Reference Lab. When hospitals had a problem they couldn't solve, they'd send it to us. QC on products we were sending out to the hospitals.  And dealing with folks with super rare blood types. In our line of work, AB negative 1:167 is as common as dirt. We had one guy with a very uncommon flavor of Rh negative blood- and with some other funky antibodies, he was a 1:50,000 character. Like only seven other known folks in the country who could safely donate blood for him. 

 

[ballpeen]

Either way it is bound to be a close game, and was bound to be so before the baker news.

 

My feeling is if Stefanski plays Baker, then he is good to go.  If he plays a obviously injured player and has ignored a poor weeks worth of observation during practice, then Stefanski needs to be fired.  Stefanski is always talking about putting the players, and thus the team, in to the best position to succeed.  If starting Keenum is the best thig to do, he will, or should do that.  At minimum make a change in the 2nd qtr.

I am with Z on this one.  If he is starting, he will be fine.  As to winning the game, I'll stay out of that one because this has always been a losable game.  If we lose and Baker is obviously sailing the ball time and time again, it isn't on baker.  it's on a coach who can't make a hard decision.

 

I have been a solid supporter of Stefanski, and still am, but last week I did see some goofy calls that seemed ego based that weren't sound football decisions.   I don't have a vast array of stats and data to support this statement, but after years of watching football if seems to me that not getting 3 points early in a game come back to hurt you more often than gaining an extra 4 helps.  

How many times have we missed a field goals at some point in a game and we end up to lose by 1-2 points and we blame the kicker for the loss?  Had we tried to kick the field goal on that first drive and missed, how many people would have been bitching and moaning all game long about how that was going to end up costing us the game?

[nickers]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Hospitals don't keep rats in their labs anymore.  I will say the level of sophistication between the 1970s and now is stunning. I've been retired going on 5 years, and my wife took me on a tour of their core lab that services multiple hospitals. Unless it's some weird specialty test it's hands off. You just put a bar coded tube on a rack and it's off to grand prix land.  Follows a track around the lab and stops at the instruments that know what tests to run on it. 

FWIW, my specialty was Transfusion Medicine  (Blood Banking). In Dayton's Reference Lab. When hospitals had a problem they couldn't solve, they'd send it to us. QC on products we were sending out to the hospitals.  And dealing with folks with super rare blood types. In our line of work, AB negative 1:167 is as common as dirt. We had one guy with a very uncommon flavor of Rh negative blood- and with some other funky antibodies, he was a 1:50,000 character. Like only seven other known folks in the country who could safely donate blood for him. 

 

Yeah... I still can't get an honest answer to what exactly my blood type is... I have some unusual things like running an abnormal high red blood cell count.. So every couple of months or so.. I have to go to phlebotomy and "Let blood" as it were.. it's the only thing thats worked so far to stabilize my blood..

[hoorta]

36 minutes ago, nickers said:

Yeah... I still can't get an honest answer to what exactly my blood type is... I have some unusual things like running an abnormal high red blood cell count.. So every couple of months or so.. I have to go to phlebotomy and "Let blood" as it were.. it's the only thing thats worked so far to stabilize my blood..

Nickers I'll take this to PM, not today though. I have a long road trip to pick up my wife at her brother's house. 

[BernieSuperbowl]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Billings position was/is important.  

You telling me to "chill" on him is  more of an understanding that Richardson and Jackson wouldn't get it done alone.  

McDowell coming out of nowhere was damn near a minor miracle.  Again, him taking that much time off just doesn't happen. 

So I place my belief in proven NFL players of Billings caliber until they demonstrate they Can't be effective. That's hardly arrogant, that's actually pragmatic. 

Don't mind Zombo, he's a piece of shit he doesn't understand football.

[tiamat63]

37 minutes ago, BernieSuperbowl said:

Don't mind Zombo, he's a piece of shit he doesn't understand football.

That hasn't been my experience.  He's always been rather good with me.

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, BernieSuperbowl said:

Don't mind Zombo, he's a piece of shit he doesn't understand football.

Insults and hot takes are pretty played out here. If you have something with substance on why Andrew Billings is an asset to the team that would be much more interesting to read. Or maybe try to be funny or something? There’s a variety of ways to add positive value here.

The shit stirring stick is easy to find. It’s the one that smells like shit. 

[Flugel]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:58 AM, EastSideDawg said:

i don't think baker is going to be the guy going forward,  if he was berry would have signed him already.  so what should we do?

1. baker is not worth 40 mil a year.. berry knows it.

2. this QB draft class sucks not really anyone of note. Maybe they draft a developmental QB?

3. free agents pretty much all older guys and retreds..... except for Mitch Trubisky. 

 

that is my vote let baker play his 5th year while grooming trubisky as a backup plan if things dont go well as well as drafting a Developmental QB in next years draft.

How about that fresh off an 11-5 season punctuated with a playoff win AT PITTSBURGH?  

Having said that,  I do realize we have some guys in here that really miss the caliber of football and QBing we had leading us to 0-16 football the year before Baker arrived.  The Browns were also 1-15 the year before that.  Continuing the inability to win, the Browns started Baker's rookie year 0-1-1 with a 14 point deficit to the Jets before Baker got his first action. Adding all that up into a Pre-Baker trend, that's 1-32-1 football looking ready to go 1-33-1 if they don't put Baker in that Jets game.  After Baker came in, the Browns erased the deficit to win.  All of a sudden, there was FREE beer in Cleveland!  In fact, as soon as Baker took the field the Browns went 7-7 while he set a rookie record for throwing 27 TD passes (this later got bettered by Herbert who had 2 more starts than Baker).    

I think 100% of us would agree that Baker's performance and decision making was AWFUL last week.  No need to race to pretend that's been the rule instead of the exception to it. I'm more worried about who is going to be playing Left Tackle against the next 2 opponents.  

[nickers]

4 hours ago, Zombo said:

Who's this Motherfucker?

Lol. 😆 

Z

Any "Mother" worth her salt would not let this loser within 50 feet of her... So I highly doubt he's fucking any ones Mother or Mothers as it were...

[hoorta]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:30 PM, Zombo said:

This is Baker's team.

He is the unquestioned leader, and he's not coming out.

You guys are nuts. And I will remind you all of this week.

Z

OK, I've (sort of) changed my mind. Not that I don't believe you Z- but I'll believe Alex VanPelt who actually played the game at QB. According to his "expert" opinion- that type of injury isn't that big of a deal. And as we all observed, Baker had a truly shitty game. One thing he did mention- Baker was holding onto the ball way too long. Only one of his three sacks were the fault of the o-line. So throw it away before you get hit or take a sack. 

[tiamat63]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:35 PM, Dutch Oven said:

An argument can be made that a healthy Herbert is better than a healthy Baker. 

For whatever reason my mind randomly came back to this post last night.  I was attempting to understand ways to convey Herbert's improvement as a passer and that he should be taken more seriously; while also expressing concern for Baker and hoping he improves from season 1 to season 2 in Stefs offense.  Then I realized I can do an apples to apples breakdown of a connected throw for a TD vs Baker missing the TD on similar offensive designs working against similar defensive designs. 

I'm just posting this now as a reminder to myself to get busy on this when I'm done with my day.    

Appreciate the reminder.