Socialized medicine in Europe

[Westside Steve]

So Poland isn't a third world s*** hole and seemed to be reasonably up-to-date Fort Western technology agreed? Just wondering why a child has a heart problem that couldn't be treated there? Along with thousands upon thousands of Canadians Europeans Etc that travels the United States for medical care?

WSS

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/polish-olympian-auctions-silver-medal-for-infants-heart-surgery-keeps-it-thanks-to-winning-bidder-230743208.html

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Rank	Hospital	Country	City	Hospital Beds
1	Mayo Clinic - Rochester	USA	Rochester, MN	1,265
2	Cleveland Clinic	USA	Cleveland, OH	1,285
3	Massachusetts General Hospital	USA	Boston, MA	1,011
4	Toronto General (University Health Network)	Canada	Toronto	727
5	Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin	Germany	Berlin	3,011
6	The Johns Hopkins Hospital	USA	Baltimore, MD	1,007
7	Universitätsspital Zürich	Switzerland	Zurich	953
8	Singapore General Hospital (SGH)	Singapore	Singapore	1,400
9	Sheba Medical Center	Israel	Ramat Gan	1,990
10	Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset	Sweden	Solna	1,340
11	Aarhus Universitetshospital	Denmark	Aarhus	1,150
12	Hôpital Universitaire Pitié Salpêtrière	France	Paris	1,717
13	Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois	Switzerland	Lausanne	929
14	Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg	Germany	Heidelberg	1,988
15	University of Michigan Hospitals - Michigan Medicine	USA	Ann Arbor, MI	1,006
16	St. Luke's International Hospital	Japan	Tokyo	520
17	Brigham And Women's Hospital	USA	Boston, MA	804
18	The University of Tokyo Hospital	Japan	Tokyo	1,217
19	Rigshospitalet - København	Denmark	Copenhagen	1,118
20	UMC Utrecht	Netherlands	Utrecht	1,042
21	Hospital Clínic de Barcelona	Spain	Barcelona	844
22	UCSF Medical Center	USA	San Francisco, CA	782
23	Les Hôpitaux Universitaires de Genève HUG - Cluse-Roseraie	Switzerland	Geneva	1,054
24	Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre	Canada	Toronto	526
25	Helsinki University Hospital	Finland	Helsinki	2,546
26	Oslo Universitetssykehus	Norway	Oslo	1,625
27	Universitätsklinikum Hamburg-Eppendorf	Germany	Hamburg	1,436
28	Royal Melbourne Hospital - Parkville	Australia	Melbourne	571
29	Mount Sinai Hospital	Canada	Toronto	308
30	Klinikum der Universität München	Germany	Munich	2,058
31	National University Hospital (NUH)	Singapore	Singapore	1,200
32	Groupe hospitalier Pellegrin	France	Bordeaux	1,472
33	St Thomas' Hospital	United Kingdom	London	920
34	Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center	Israel	Tel Aviv	1,300
35	Stanford Health Care - Stanford Hospital	USA	Stanford, CA	477
36	The Alfred	Australia	Melbourne	638
37	Asan Medical Center	South Korea	Seoul	2,935
38	Hospital Israelita Albert Einstein	Brazil	Sao Paulo	663
39	New York-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia and Cornell	USA	New York, NY	2,410
40	Academisch Medisch Centrum	Netherlands	Amsterdam	1,002
41	Hospital Universitario La Paz	Spain	Madrid	1,268
42	Samsung Medical Center	South Korea	Seoul	2,157
43	Medizinische Hochschule Hannover	Germany	Hanover	1,520
44	University College Hospital	United Kingdom	London	720
45	Kyoto University Hospital	Japan	Kyoto	1,121
46	Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania-Penn Presbyterian	USA	Philadelphia, PA	780
47	Grande Ospedale Metropolitano Niguarda	Italy	Milan	961
48	Akademiska sjukhuset	Sweden	Uppsala	943
49	Clinica Universidad de Navarra	Spain	Pamplona	241
50	Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center	USA	Los Angeles, CA	445

[DieHardBrownsFan]

However, the USA rates 30th behind Mexico in health care.  (due to costs, etc.).

[Westside Steve]

38 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

However, the USA rates 30th behind Mexico in health care.  (due to costs, etc.).

Hey when I have chest pains I'm flying to Juarez. In other news McDonald's was rated higher than Giovanni's.

WSS

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Hey when I have chest pains I'm flying to Juarez. In other news McDonald's was rated higher than Giovanni's.

WSS

 

I suggest Tijuana Heart and weed specialists.

[The Cysko Kid]

I notice the people most against other people receiving adequate health care are the ones who can most afford the exorbitant costs.  Generally older people that are empty nesters and, strangely, the ones on Medicare which is America's version of socialized healthcare. 

Ok, let's play the game where we zzz keep our healthcare model. No one thinks it's fine as is do they? Does anyone believe it legitimately costs $3000 for an MRI? AN MRI is a diagnostic. Not even a treatment. There has to be some reckoning. I mean how much does it cost if you're in a hospital room that they haven't even cleaned for days and once every four hours some disinterested low-iq nurse comes in and changed the saline bag and gives you some oxy so you don't bother them? Quite a lot, sir. Quite a lot. Speaking of nurses why are they making so much money? Nurse practitioners sure. MSNs ok, but just your regular run of the mill nurse? They don't do that great of a job from what I can see. 

[The Cysko Kid]

And since I'm on an off topic tangent why are our healthcare professionals so fucking fat? I swear 50% of nurses are fat wheezing windbags. That does not scream good health to me. Do you know that healthcare is the largest industry in the country? Presumably because we're so unhealthy that even 5'3 female nurses are 180 lbs. 

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Rank	Hospital	Country	City	Hospital Beds
1	Mayo Clinic - Rochester	USA	Rochester, MN	1,265
2	Cleveland Clinic	USA	Cleveland, OH	1,285
3	Massachusetts General Hospital	USA	Boston, MA	1,011
4	Toronto General (University Health Network)	Canada	Toronto	727
5	Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin	Germany	Berlin	3,011
6	The Johns Hopkins Hospital	USA	Baltimore, MD	1,007
7	Universitätsspital Zürich	Switzerland	Zurich	953
8	Singapore General Hospital (SGH)	Singapore	Singapore	1,400
9	Sheba Medical Center	Israel	Ramat Gan	1,990
10	Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset	Sweden	Solna	1,340
11	Aarhus Universitetshospital	Denmark	Aarhus	1,150
12	Hôpital Universitaire Pitié Salpêtrière	France	Paris	1,717
13	Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois	Switzerland	Lausanne	929
14	Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg	Germany	Heidelberg	1,988
15	University of Michigan Hospitals - Michigan Medicine	USA	Ann Arbor, MI	1,006
16	St. Luke's International Hospital	Japan	Tokyo	520
17	Brigham And Women's Hospital	USA	Boston, MA	804
18	The University of Tokyo Hospital	Japan	Tokyo	1,217
19	Rigshospitalet - København	Denmark	Copenhagen	1,118
20	UMC Utrecht	Netherlands	Utrecht	1,042
21	Hospital Clínic de Barcelona	Spain	Barcelona	844
22	UCSF Medical Center	USA	San Francisco, CA	782
23	Les Hôpitaux Universitaires de Genève HUG - Cluse-Roseraie	Switzerland	Geneva	1,054
24	Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre	Canada	Toronto	526
25	Helsinki University Hospital	Finland	Helsinki	2,546
26	Oslo Universitetssykehus	Norway	Oslo	1,625
27	Universitätsklinikum Hamburg-Eppendorf	Germany	Hamburg	1,436
28	Royal Melbourne Hospital - Parkville	Australia	Melbourne	571
29	Mount Sinai Hospital	Canada	Toronto	308
30	Klinikum der Universität München	Germany	Munich	2,058
31	National University Hospital (NUH)	Singapore	Singapore	1,200
32	Groupe hospitalier Pellegrin	France	Bordeaux	1,472
33	St Thomas' Hospital	United Kingdom	London	920
34	Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center	Israel	Tel Aviv	1,300
35	Stanford Health Care - Stanford Hospital	USA	Stanford, CA	477
36	The Alfred	Australia	Melbourne	638
37	Asan Medical Center	South Korea	Seoul	2,935
38	Hospital Israelita Albert Einstein	Brazil	Sao Paulo	663
39	New York-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia and Cornell	USA	New York, NY	2,410
40	Academisch Medisch Centrum	Netherlands	Amsterdam	1,002
41	Hospital Universitario La Paz	Spain	Madrid	1,268
42	Samsung Medical Center	South Korea	Seoul	2,157
43	Medizinische Hochschule Hannover	Germany	Hanover	1,520
44	University College Hospital	United Kingdom	London	720
45	Kyoto University Hospital	Japan	Kyoto	1,121
46	Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania-Penn Presbyterian	USA	Philadelphia, PA	780
47	Grande Ospedale Metropolitano Niguarda	Italy	Milan	961
48	Akademiska sjukhuset	Sweden	Uppsala	943
49	Clinica Universidad de Navarra	Spain	Pamplona	241
50	Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center	USA	Los Angeles, CA	445

That doesn't even tell the whole story. For instance it says Cleveland Clinic had 1285 beds. I feel confident this doesn't reflect all of their hospitals, simply main campus downtown. They have the Jacobs building in Avon which just built two enormous towers. They have Marymount which has beds. They have Akron General which, I don't know because I haven't been there but I bet has a decent capacity. I'm sure I'm missing some actual admitting hospitals under their direct control. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I agree, probably just the main campus.  Not including Marymount, Hillcrest, Fairview, etc.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I remember when my Dad was in CCU his cardiologist was extremely fat.  I found that to be amusing.

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I notice the people most against other people receiving adequate health care are the ones who can most afford the exorbitant costs.  Generally older people that are empty nesters and, strangely, the ones on Medicare which is America's version of socialized healthcare. 

I would call b******* on the generalization but I will only speak for myself. I am not against other people having adequate Health Care protection. On the other hand I think that it's a very substantial service and that everyone who wants to benefit from it should pay for it. And even with a sliding scale it's going to wind up costing a lot more then Medicare costs the elderly today.

Ok, let's play the game where we zzz keep our healthcare model. No one thinks it's fine as is do they? Does anyone believe it legitimately costs $3000 for an MRI? AN MRI is a diagnostic. Not even a treatment. There has to be some reckoning. I mean how much does it cost if you're in a hospital room that they haven't even cleaned for days and once every four hours some disinterested low-iq nurse comes in and changed the saline bag and gives you some oxy so you don't bother them? Quite a lot, sir. Quite a lot. Speaking of nurses why are they making so much money? Nurse practitioners sure. MSNs ok, but just your regular run of the mill nurse? They don't do that great of a job from what I can see. 

 and the rant about fat nurses oh, I haven't noticed that to be the case. Nor do I care if it was.

 but of course my point was people with free medical care have to come to America to get the big shit taken care of.

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

 and the rant about fat nurses oh, I haven't noticed that to be the case. Nor do I care if it was.

 but of course my point was people with free medical care have to come to America to get the big shit taken care of.

WSS

You apparently missed the point where we have the top rated hospitals in the world. People that have the money are going to come here. We don't have the top hospitals in the world because of insurance companies though. 

[The Cysko Kid]

Why are you defending the insurance models here? I don't get it. I really really don't. 

You keep going on about some nebulous fake metric. "Everyone's got to pay"

Yes, Steve. We pay taxes. Even, I imagine, self employed musicians who are probably taking home a lot of money that's, you know, not exactly accounted for by the IRS pay taxes. I imagine you keep your tax forms current. You also know that many in your profession don't. And we all know the very poorest aren't paying, period. They're not paying now either. 

I get taxed far out the ass. I would greatly prefer that tax money went to a national insurance fund rather than giving the Taliban weaponry. That's just me though. 

 

 

 

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

 and the rant about fat nurses oh, I haven't noticed that to be the case. Nor do I care if it was.

 but of course my point was people with free medical care have to come to America to get the big shit taken care of.

WSS

You should care. Obesity is the top factor in the top killers in the country. And all the fat fuck type 2 diabetics are probably the greatest factor in driving premiums through the roof year after year as they linger on and on requiring more and more insulin and care as their limbs and open sores rot their bodies away but don't kill them. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

 I would call b******* on the generalization but I will only speak for myself. I am not against other people having adequate Health Care protection. On the other hand I think that it's a very substantial service and that everyone who wants to benefit from it should pay for it. And even with a sliding scale it's going to wind up costing a lot more then Medicare costs the elderly today.

and the rant about fat nurses oh, I haven't noticed that to be the case. Nor do I care if it was.

 but of course my point was people with free medical care have to come to America to get the big shit taken care of.

WSS

A couple observations Steve... 

1) There's folks out there who have no means of paying anything. The way it works out is those who can afford health insurance are already subsidizing those who can't. As to America going to socialized medicine- it's probably coming just not right away. Incremental. I've long said they should lower the eligible age for Medicare down to 62- the same age you can collect on social security. Then 59-1\2, 55.... You get where this is heading. MHO? Medicare works great- at least for me.  The basic costs $145 bucks a month.  You want first dollar coverage (like I do)? Tack on another $215.  

2) As to the insane high cost of medical bills... Hmmmm. Seems like satellite hospitals are popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. At least in SW Ohio they are. Hospitals wouldn't be doing that if they were going broke. $3,000 MRI?  I'll average the cost of a machine = $2 million.  Means you have to do around 700 procedures to break even- and the techs running the machine aren't working for free either...  Plus- that's what you might get billed- but I would posit once insurance gets into the act the hospital doesn't see anywhere near that.  

3) Nurses overpaid? Um- nope. Your BSN's have a four year degree.  About $75k a year.  If they're overpaid so are police who make about the same. 

4) But one way we could lower prescription drug costs is letting folks get their prescriptions from Canada or overseas. Big Pharma shut that down right quick.  :(  That drug safety propaganda is complete crap.  Some of the biggest prescription drug manufactures and suppliers in the world are located in Israel and India.  

5) RE: having the top rated hospitals.. you don't get something for nothing. 

[hoorta]

8 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

You should care. Obesity is the top factor in the top killers in the country. And all the fat fuck type 2 diabetics are probably the greatest factor in driving premiums through the roof year after year as they linger on and on requiring more and more insulin and care as their limbs and open sores rot their bodies away but don't kill them. 

That's true, but it's mighty harsh.  So would you rather have health insurance premiums based on how healthy you are?  The beached whales wouldn't be able to afford the premiums, and would wind up on Medicaid. I'd bet a lot of them already are. 

PS- I've told the story before- one of our hospital guards had an accident pushing a 600 pounder up a ramp in a wheelchair. It tipped over backwards and landed on top of him with the occupant in the chair.   

It's why Obamacare in it's original form had a mandate. Young and healthy individuals were skipping enrolling instead of paying for a service they thought they didn't need.  (Until they wound up in the hospital after a car wreck.) 

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

That doesn't even tell the whole story. For instance it says Cleveland Clinic had 1285 beds. I feel confident this doesn't reflect all of their hospitals, simply main campus downtown. They have the Jacobs building in Avon which just built two enormous towers. They have Marymount which has beds. They have Akron General which, I don't know because I haven't been there but I bet has a decent capacity. I'm sure I'm missing some actual admitting hospitals under their direct control. 

You’re correct about the bed count at the CC.

There are CC hospitals in Lorain, Stark, Medina, and Tuscarawas Counties.

There are also CC hospitals in Florida and Nevada.

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

A couple observations Steve... 

1) There's folks out there who have no means of paying anything.

 who would that be, that has absolutely zero ability to give $0.15? Where are there people so destitute that they get nothing in the way of benefits from anywhere? If those people exist it has to be a very tiny number. And absolutely no doubt they are Wards of the state. I know enough people on disability that get Medicaid. I wouldn't mind charging them 25,50, 75 100 200 bucks a month. Especially the ones that work on the side smoke cigarettes or drink beer

The way it works out is those who can afford health insurance are already subsidizing those who can't. As to America going to socialized medicine- it's probably coming just not right away. Incremental. I've long said they should lower the eligible age for Medicare down to 62- the same age you can collect on social security. Then 59-1\2, 55.... You get where this is heading. MHO?

 I do. And when everybody is finally on the Dole we'll get used to Medical Care that we wouldn't put up with today. It will just be what it is.

Medicare works great- at least for me.  The basic costs $145 bucks a month.  You want first dollar coverage (like I do)? Tack on another $215.  

 your point? I'm on Medicare now and I paid my own way for decades before. And a good portion of paying my own way made it possible they could take a hit on the 65 and over population.

2) As to the insane high cost of medical bills... Hmmmm. Seems like satellite hospitals are popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. At least in SW Ohio they are. Hospitals wouldn't be doing that if they were going broke. $3,000 MRI?  I'll average the cost of a machine = $2 million.  Means you have to do around 700 procedures to break even- and the techs running the machine aren't working for free either...  Plus- that's what you might get billed- but I would posit once insurance gets into the act the hospital doesn't see anywhere near that.  

 and part of the high cost of medical bills is the fact that they have to overcharge because they're only going to get back a fraction of what they ask for. Same as a warranty center for guitar repairs. Fender isn't going to pay an authorized repair guy $150 for 15 minutes set up.

3) Nurses overpaid? Um- nope. Your BSN's have a four year degree.  About $75k a year.  If they're overpaid so are police who make about the same. 

 nurses overpaid? That's ridiculous.

4) But one way we could lower prescription drug costs is letting folks get their prescriptions from Canada or overseas. Big Pharma shut that down right quick.  :(  That drug safety propaganda is complete crap.  Some of the biggest prescription drug manufactures and suppliers in the world are located in Israel and India.  

 No Doubt. Of course with the world clamoring for new and better medications and demanding research go through the roof it will come time to say goodbye to some of that inovacation

5) RE: having the top rated hospitals.. you don't get something for nothing. 

 exactly. But that's what people expect when the government starts picking up the tab for Stuff. Also I'm guessing most of the things you said weren't and direct counter to my statements oh, just general observations yes? No?

WSS

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

who would that be, that has absolutely zero ability to give $0.15? Where are there people so destitute that they get nothing in the way of benefits from anywhere? If those people exist it has to be a very tiny number.

 exactly. But that's what people expect when the government starts picking up the tab for Stuff. Also I'm guessing most of the things you said weren't and direct counter to my statements oh, just general observations yes? No?

WSS

Yes Steve- just general observations from my years in the medical field. 

OTOH... I keep an eye on (and contribute to) the Saint Vincent DePaul Society.  There's more than a few street people out there- and that number increases in direct correlation as to how cold it gets in the winter.  I mean- asking them to contribute 15 cents might be nice, but LOL- it wouldn't be worth the effort. Cost more in the long run to actually collect it.  

Ha- I had that personal experience myself way back. The Loan Company sent me a letter plus spending 17 cents on postage sending me a bill for the 14 cents I owed to pay off my student loan. I sent the bill back with a nastygram telling them how f'n stupid are you?  Could have saved a little money. Never heard from them again.    

[Westside Steve]

29 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yes Steve- just general observations from my years in the medical field. 

OTOH... I keep an eye on (and contribute to) the Saint Vincent DePaul Society.  There's more than a few street people out there- and that number increases in direct correlation as to how cold it gets in the winter.  I mean- asking them to contribute 15 cents might be nice, but LOL- it wouldn't be worth the effort. Cost more in the long run to actually collect it.  

Ha- I had that personal experience myself way back. The Loan Company sent me a letter plus spending 17 cents on postage sending me a bill for the 14 cents I owed to pay off my student loan. I sent the bill back with a nastygram telling them how f'n stupid are you?  Could have saved a little money. Never heard from them again.    

Oh well I don't seriously think that feral human beings really add into this debate.

Of course people who make less than oh, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen thousand whatever the limit is now, get Medicaid.

WSS

 

[TexasAg1969]

10 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Hey when I have chest pains I'm flying to Juarez. In other news McDonald's was rated higher than Giovanni's.

WSS

That won't end well.......prolly blow out your flip flop stepping on a pop top and end up with your head drinking from a blender.🤗💃

[Canton Dawg]

39 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That won't end well.......prolly blow out your flip flop stepping on a pop top and end up with your head drinking from a blender.🤗💃

Some people claim…there’s a woman to blame.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

8 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

That won't end well.......prolly blow out your flip flop stepping on a pop top and end up with your head drinking from a blender.🤗💃

And that brand new tattoo, where he got it he ain't got a clue.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

And that brand new tattoo, where he got it he ain't got a clue.

Prolly a Mexican "nurse". They gotta lit of nice girls down there. But then I might be mistaken {we can take this all over the place🎶🎸🤠...............if you got the time}.🤣

[Westside Steve]

17 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

You should care. Obesity is the top factor in the top killers in the country. And all the fat fuck type 2 diabetics are probably the greatest factor in driving premiums through the roof year after year as they linger on and on requiring more and more insulin and care as their limbs and open sores rot their bodies away but don't kill them. 

Okay, so what? That hasn't been my observation any time I've been in any medical facility. The staffs at any Hospital seemed to be just about like any average citizen. I guess some politician could advocate required physical education for every citizen like the Japanese. Good luck getting that passed.

As to the other subject yes people with money will come to the United States for their Healthcare. I wonder why is socialized medicine is great? A Kia is probably not a better car than a Mercedes-Benz because it costs less. But it sure the Kia can get you from point A to point B.

Maybe there could be some sort of public option similar to the free clinics back in college for people who are broke? Of course then poor people start whining that rich people get better care. Like rich people drive the Mercedes while poor people drive the Kia.

WSS

[hammertime]

There is always going to be a target.  First it was the smokers,  now the fat and soon the old.

 

step back and look at the big picture.  Good hospitalization has always been an incentive to work and strive to find a better job.

I think some focus should be to bring these po dunk small town hospitals out of the past an in tune with modern medicine.

[VaporTrail]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Okay, so what? That hasn't been my observation any time I've been in any medical facility. The staffs at any Hospital seemed to be just about like any average citizen. I guess some politician could advocate required physical education for every citizen like the Japanese. Good luck getting that passed.

As to the other subject yes people with money will come to the United States for their Healthcare. I wonder why is socialized medicine is great? A Kia is probably not a better car than a Mercedes-Benz because it costs less. But it sure the Kia can get you from point A to point B.

Maybe there could be some sort of public option similar to the free clinics back in college for people who are broke? Of course then poor people start whining that rich people get better care. Like rich people drive the Mercedes while poor people drive the Kia.

WSS

I can echo Cysko's experiences. Diabetics and hypertensives are the vast majority of people hospitalized.

More socialized medicine has its benefits. I'd rather get emergency care and surgery in Canada or Europe because that kind of shit can bankrupt financially responsible people here. For everything else, I'll get my care here.

[Westside Steve]

11 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

I can echo Cysko's experiences. Diabetics and hypertensives are the vast majority of people hospitalized.

Absolutely that's not what I'm arguing for or against. I know plenty of lazy cigarette smoking fat slobs on Medicaid.  It pisses me off.

More socialized medicine has its benefits. I'd rather get emergency care and surgery in Canada or Europe because that kind of shit can bankrupt financially responsible people here. For everything else, I'll get my care here.

 

So you have no medical insurance? I always have and as a self-employed musician, paod for it myself. And I have dealt with serious medical issues. No doubt it would be more fun to spend an extra thousand bucks on partying every month. Then again same deal if you drive your car without insurance and hit somebody. That can bankrupt you just as easily. Plus I guess there's a Trauma Center somewhere between Saskatchewan and Toronto... For what for what

WSS

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

 

Maybe there could be some sort of public option similar to the free clinics back in college for people who are broke? Of course then poor people start whining that rich people get better care. Like rich people drive the Mercedes while poor people drive the Kia.

WSS

Poor care is better than no care at all. But you're never going to keep that crowd happy regardless.  Our hospital had a free clinic for the uninsured where they could get treated. And our first year residents got to practice medicine on them.  One of the residents (actually saw this) pulled out a book to see what he was supposed to do when a patient was in full blown cardiac arrest.  We did get rid of him.  

The other problem is not all- but some- of our welfare crowd are great at scamming the system. Bogus claims, or walking into ER saying you're going to harm yourself gets you free meals and lodging up in the psych ward for a week.   

[Westside Steve]

24 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Poor care is better than no care at all.

it is. Or call it no frills care.

But you're never going to keep that crowd happy regardless. 

of corse not. That's the problem when people start assuming they should get something for nothing.

Our hospital had a free clinic for the uninsured where they could get treated. And our first year residents got to practice medicine on them.  One of the residents (actually saw this) pulled out a book to see what he was supposed to do when a patient was in full blown cardiac arrest.  We did get rid of him.  

Why? What if he research something on the Internet? Called another doctor? What's the problem? Imagine had he not looked in the book and the guy died?

The other problem is not all- but some- of our welfare crowd are great at scamming the system. Bogus claims, or walking into ER saying you're going to harm yourself gets you free meals and lodging up in the psych ward for a week.   

 So some, but not all, deadbeats are also crooks? I'm shocked. Soylent Green; problem solved.

WSS