The Myth of the Winnable Culture War - Taibbi

[VaporTrail]

Read this today and thought it was interesting. Source: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-difference-between-smearing

This was a response to one of his paid articles where he commented on the manufactured outrage and venom that Tucker Carlson received after he reported that a whistleblower said he was being spied on by the NSA. Here are some of the highlights.

Quote

Here’s what we do now, instead of arguing: we fling terms like “white supremacist,” “transphobe,” “conspiracy theorist,” and “fascist” around, knowing that if the words stick, they lead to outcomes: boycotts, firings, removal from Internet platforms, etc. When Brian Stelter and Oliver Darcy compare Carlson to Alex Jones, they do this knowing Jones was booted off the Internet, so it’s a not-so-subtle way of voting for that same outcome.

Fine, many of you will say; I want Tucker Carlson booted off the air, and the Internet. I’d argue there are a lot of problems with thinking that way (this is exactly what censorship proponents said they wouldn’t do three years ago when the Jones situation happened, i.e. start arguing for removal of more mainstream conservatives), but beyond that, the technique isn’t limited just to Carlson.

...

Anyone even considering going on Fox now can expect to spend years answering questions about abetting fascism and white supremacy. Argument goes out the door: the discourse becomes entirely about courage and career risk. How much flak are you willing to take? How much can you afford to take?

This is why people who probably have very different or even opposite politics on the policy level, like Greenwald and Carlson, are suddenly in a broadcast partnership. They’re part of a dwindling club left in major media who are defying these tactics. In a hypothetical universe where this moral panic era subsides, one could envision them going back to violently arguing with one another over immigration, spending, policing, etc. But for now they’re on the same side, not on issues, but against a tactic.

It’s become fashionable especially in Democratic Party politics (but more lately on the Republican side, too) to embrace this maximalist form of debate on the grounds that it works. De-platforming works, boycotts work, shaming works, they say; shaming is how we effect change. These people like to point to the fact that Alex Jones is effectively a non-factor in public life now, and Milo Yiannopoulos has vanished, even Donald Trump is a sideshow, and so on.

...

Remember how Republicans in the Bush era talked about blue-state enemies? Their conventional wisdom was that liberals equated with terrorists, liberalism was a “mental disorder,” liberalism was “treason.” Their rhetoric did not include a vision for the other half of America outside of conversion or expulsion. Plenty of this is still going on, but the updated version is prevalent now among Democrats, who are trying to make a strategy of absolute non-engagement stick with additional tools like platform censorship and domestic surveillance.

That part I italicized at the end is what I find most troubling about the current state of affairs. 

[MLD Woody]

I think that, at least in the excerpt, takes a lot of the blame off of people like Tucker, who are actively stoking the fires of a culture war. He wants to go on about Dr Seuss, Mr Potatohead, Trans people playing sports, etc. because it gets his audience, the conservative base, going. You can blame the left for their reaction but the right, at least people like Tucker, are actively trying to push this "culture war" to line their own pockets. To see how well it is working just look at what is posted here...

If your whole political strategy is to "own the libs" then any attempt at actual discourse is already out the window.

But yes, this IS coming from both sides, in some respect. In most cases the culture war is overblown and it is just there to drive views. 

 

 

and, at the beginning of that quote... sorry... conspiracy theorists are what they are. I'm not equating a Q believer to someone falsely accused of being racist because he has a criticism of a black person (or whatever story you want to put there). JAFBF's mega thread and the growing number of people that believe that nonsense is a growing area of concern for this country. 

[Vambo]

Critics slam the White House after Psaki reveals it's consulting with Facebook to 'flag misinformation'

'What could go wrong?'

 

CENSORED BY WHITE HOUSE

Outrage erupts over Biden admin regularly 'flagging' Facebook posts

[Axe]

I hesitate to use the term "POS" in this forum because one it's participants is extremely butt hurt by being so accurately badged.

But in this thread, the term cries out to be used...

Vambo, you may be excused..

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I think that, at least in the excerpt, takes a lot of the blame off of people like Tucker, who are actively stoking the fires of a culture war. He wants to go on about Dr Seuss, Mr Potatohead, Trans people playing sports, etc. because it gets his audience, the conservative base, going. You can blame the left for their reaction but the right, at least people like Tucker, are actively trying to push this "culture war" to line their own pockets. To see how well it is working just look at what is posted here...

If your whole political strategy is to "own the libs" then any attempt at actual discourse is already out the window.

But yes, this IS coming from both sides, in some respect. In most cases the culture war is overblown and it is just there to drive views. and, at the beginning of that quote... sorry... conspiracy theorists are what they are. I'm not equating a Q believer to someone falsely accused of being racist because he has a criticism of a black person (or whatever story you want to put there). JAFBF's mega thread and the growing number of people that believe that nonsense is a growing area of concern for this country. 

 Oh, look, an actual response of more than one line from the woodpecker. Except - Tucker has PROVEN his contentions - and has been CORRECT in his contentions - he has serious connections in gov/intel. He doesn't have to blabber superficial biased nonsense.

And, to deny there is a serious culture war going on by the left ? SERIOUSLY? and the feeble attempt, again and again and again, to equate nonsense ("Q" etc.) to a legitimate question?

    Pitiful try. But, you may as well always be saying stupid stuff like " If your whole political strategy is to "own the libs" then any attempt at actual discourse is already out the window. "....

  How about "if pigs had giant wings they could fly!" That would probably make you feeeeeeeelllllll just as smug and arrogant.

But it's nonsense. You are just disagreeing to be obstinate. You make zero valid points. But, at least you didn't type "you're a moron" for the thousandth? time.....

[Vambo]

WOKE LIBERAL STORY TIME Goes WAY Beyond Cringe!

 

[Vambo]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566434/actor-bare-bottomed-fake-penis-monkey-kids-event/

AN actor in a bare-bottomed monkey costume with fake penis appeared at an event to encourage children to read.

Worried mums and dads complained after snaps appeared online of the rainbow-coloured character at a event.

2

Man wearing a rainbow coloured monkey costume with fake penis and bare bottom - to read to kids at a library

[Vambo]

California leftists trying to combat 'racism' in math classes

 

[FairHooker11]

shaming works, they say; shaming is how we effect change. These people like to point to the fact that Alex Jones is effectively a non-factor in public life now, and Milo Yiannopoulos has vanished, even Donald Trump is a sideshow, and so on.

the pecker HERE on BB -as well as the left has gotten lazier using the internet and media to "shame" rather than the age-old tactic of face-to-face dialog. You know, the kind they used on college campuses to "cancel" opposing  (conservative) viewpoints by violence and derision.

 

  

[Westside Steve]

That's a good post vapor. And it's true a lot closer to Orwell than most of this s*** we speak about. And of course hosts of news related opinion shows throw out red meat to the base. I know it's hip now to hate Carlson I'm assuming because his show must be doing well. On the other hand ridiculous s*** like CRT BLM screaming racism every other word putting millions of people on permanent welfare mr. Potato Head Aunt Jemima et al removing gender-related pronouns eliminating words like mother or father (Newspeak if anybody is actually aware of Orwell)... Assuming women can have penises... Yes those get attention because they are batshit crazy. And anybody that supports those ideas is batshit crazy. And certainly deserving of ridicule. And that's why those stories get traction, because there were actual people out there implementing this crap.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

21 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I think that, at least in the excerpt, takes a lot of the blame off of people like Tucker, who are actively stoking the fires of a culture war. He wants to go on about Dr Seuss, Mr Potatohead, Trans people playing sports, etc. because it gets his audience, the conservative base, going. You can blame the left for their reaction but the right, at least people like Tucker, are actively trying to push this "culture war" to line their own pockets. To see how well it is working just look at what is posted here...

If your whole political strategy is to "own the libs" then any attempt at actual discourse is already out the window.

But yes, this IS coming from both sides, in some respect. In most cases the culture war is overblown and it is just there to drive views. 

and, at the beginning of that quote... sorry... conspiracy theorists are what they are. I'm not equating a Q believer to someone falsely accused of being racist because he has a criticism of a black person (or whatever story you want to put there). JAFBF's mega thread and the growing number of people that believe that nonsense is a growing area of concern for this country. 

I'm going to respond to this with another quote from Taibbi - this one is paywalled. 

Quote

Democrats provided even better foils. Instead of responding to the disaster of 2016 by re-focusing on health care, the economy, our incessant foreign military entanglements, or other actual issues, blue-state pols and media reduced all content, all thought, to a single word: Trump. They made Trump a mandatory obsession and forbade describing him as anything but an absolute, Hitlerian evil. All Carlson had to do to soar toward the top of the ratings was focus on literally anything else.

...

The problem with critics who want to make the term stick is they’re the same people who dole out words like transphobe, misogynist, racist, conspiracy theorist, Assadist, Putin-lover, traitor, and a hundred other bazooka terms toward everyone from Sanders to Rogan to Jill Stein to all non-Biden voters and, now, all critics of the intelligence services. At some point even the Nicolle Wallaces of the world must realize flinging absolute moral insults in all directions through the tube is a numerically untenable broadcast strategy. Until then, Carlson gets to welcome every type of person marked with Scarlet Letters to his audience, and frankly he’ll deserve every ratings bump he gets from this.

This is the full article. He's been my go to guy since the media went full Retard in 2016. Definitely recommend subscribing to him.

 Spying and Smearing is "Un-American," not Tucker Carlson - by Matt Taibbi - TK News by Matt Taibbi (substack.com)

[MLD Woody]

16 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

I'm going to respond to this with another quote from Taibbi - this one is paywalled. 

This is the full article. He's been my go to guy since the media went full Retard in 2016. Definitely recommend subscribing to him.

 Spying and Smearing is "Un-American," not Tucker Carlson - by Matt Taibbi - TK News by Matt Taibbi (substack.com)

The end of that quote just seems to ignore the fact people like Carlson added to the very problem the offer is describing. 

 

But it would be interesting to know the exact point modern politics really went off the rails. The right is going on about a culture war now. Before that the left went on about trump. Before that trump and the right went on about the left an Obama. Etc etc. The idea that the left caused Trump, etc. 

[Westside Steve]

6 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

The end of that quote just seems to ignore the fact people like Carlson added to the very problem the offer is describing. 

by speaking out against the batshit crazy ideas of the left? That offends you?

But it would be interesting to know the exact point modern politics really went off the rails. The right is going on about a culture war now. Before that the left went on about trump. Before that trump and the right went on about the left an Obama. Etc etc. The idea that the left caused Trump, etc. 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Woody (people like him) are destroying our great country with their lunatic ideas.

[Ibleedbrown]

I read the article in the op and thought it was pretty good. There’s a saying in newscasting, “if it bleeds it leads.” This is why any given night the lead story on the nightly news is the most horrific thing that happened that day. Shootings and fatal car crashes and such. It tends to stun viewers and pull them in to the broadcast.

It’s an element used more and more in news about politicians. By throwing out loaded words like nazis and racists it has a similar effect. Sort of adds a level of intensity to it all, gets people all fired up about their political news. And most importantly keeps the viewers glued and the clicks clicking. 

It’s not really for me, but l get it that sensationalism is sensational. Like Steve put it, red meat for the base. I guess you always gotta worry about the overly excitable folks who overindulge in their overly exciting news, but business is business. 

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I read the article in the op and thought it was pretty good. There’s a saying in newscasting, “if it bleeds it leads.” This is why any given night the lead story on the nightly news is the most horrific thing that happened that day. Shootings and fatal car crashes and such. It tends to stun viewers and pull them in to the broadcast.

It’s an element used more and more in news about politicians. By throwing out loaded words like nazis and racists it has a similar effect. Sort of adds a level of intensity to it all, gets people all fired up about their political news. And most importantly keeps the viewers glued and the clicks clicking. 

It’s not really for me, but l get it that sensationalism is sensational. Like Steve put it, red meat for the base. I guess you always gotta worry about the overly excitable folks who overindulge in their overly exciting news, but business is business. 

woody's roommate? seriously? I posted the nazi correlation in several ways. Your pablum generalization means nothing.

The truth is, the comparison to nazis coming to power is absolutely legitimately similar to the left doing what they are doing now.

Serious pertinent discussion makes me think you are woodpecker stoned.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I read the article in the op and thought it was pretty good. There’s a saying in newscasting, “if it bleeds it leads.” This is why any given night the lead story on the nightly news is the most horrific thing that happened that day. Shootings and fatal car crashes and such. It tends to stun viewers and pull them in to the broadcast.

It’s an element used more and more in news about politicians. By throwing out loaded words like nazis and racists it has a similar effect. Sort of adds a level of intensity to it all, gets people all fired up about their political news. And most importantly keeps the viewers glued and the clicks clicking. 

It’s not really for me, but l get it that sensationalism is sensational. Like Steve put it, red meat for the base. I guess you always gotta worry about the overly excitable folks who overindulge in their overly exciting news, but business is business. 

Sure 'Ibleedbrownmao'.

[Westside Steve]

23 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Sure 'Ibleedbrownmao'.

But of course he's right. I've said this before and it's probably always been true just getting worse and worse as the news media continues to rot but the idea is not to change anyone's mind AS MUCH as to sell patent medicine automobiles financial products rubbers and video games to the viewer.

WSS

[Browns149]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:53 PM, Vambo said:

Critics slam the White House after Psaki reveals it's consulting with Facebook to 'flag misinformation'

'What could go wrong?'

 

CENSORED BY WHITE HOUSE

Outrage erupts over Biden admin regularly 'flagging' Facebook posts

As soon as someone starts their post with “Critics slam”  ANYTHING. It isn’t worth reading

 

[Ibleedbrown]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

woody's roommate? seriously? I posted the nazi correlation in several ways. Your pablum generalization means nothing.

The truth is, the comparison to nazis coming to power is absolutely legitimately similar to the left doing what they are doing now.

Serious pertinent discussion makes me think you are woodpecker stoned.

The “you’re some other dude!” angle again? You’re so weird man. Is being woody’s roommate a step up or down from actually being woody? 

Nothing l said was directed at you or anyone here, just an observation of the op article. If comparing democrats to nazis gets your panties wet, go for it man. You aren’t the media. My comments were about advertising-space-selling media outlets and what they have to gain by amping up the language. It’s a form of manipulation that isn’t exclusive to one side or the other. 

[Ibleedbrown]

3 hours ago, Browns149 said:

As soon as someone starts their post with “Critics slam”  ANYTHING. It isn’t worth reading

 

The money phrase in that article heading is “outrage erupts.” That’s the call to action.

“What did those slimy bastards do now?”... click. And that’s how they get ya.

Think about it. They could have gone with “Biden admin regularly ‘flagging’ Facebook posts is cause for concern,” but do you think that would get more clicks than “Outrage erupts?” Probably not.

[Vambo]

3 hours ago, Browns149 said:

As soon as someone starts their post with “Critics slam”  ANYTHING. It isn’t worth reading

 

All Browns 149 posts. must start with...“Critics slam”

[Vambo]

Media

AOC ripped for being a 'communist sympathizer' and the scathing words don't stop there

[Axe]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:53 PM, Vambo said:

Critics slam the White House after Psaki reveals it's consulting with Facebook to 'flag misinformation'

'What could go wrong?'

 

CENSORED BY WHITE HOUSE

Outrage erupts over Biden admin regularly 'flagging' Facebook posts

[Browns149]

2 hours ago, Vambo said:

All Browns 149 posts. must start with...“Critics slam”

But yet you commented 

[Vambo]

24 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

But yet you commented 

So did you!  You smack yourself often! 🤣

[Axe]

 

[Vambo]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:04 PM, MLD Woody said:

I think that, at least in the excerpt, takes a lot of the blame off of people like Tucker, who are actively stoking the fires of a culture war. He wants to go on about Dr Seuss, Mr Potatohead, Trans people playing sports, etc. because it gets his audience, the conservative base, going. You can blame the left for their reaction but the right, at least people like Tucker, are actively trying to push this "culture war" to line their own pockets. To see how well it is working just look at what is posted here...

If your whole political strategy is to "own the libs" then any attempt at actual discourse is already out the window.

But yes, this IS coming from both sides, in some respect. In most cases the culture war is overblown and it is just there to drive views. 

 

 

and, at the beginning of that quote... sorry... conspiracy theorists are what they are. I'm not equating a Q believer to someone falsely accused of being racist because he has a criticism of a black person (or whatever story you want to put there). JAFBF's mega thread and the growing number of people that believe that nonsense is a growing area of concern for this country. 

 

[calfoxwc]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:34 PM, Axe said:

 

How Social Media Helps Dictators - Foreign Policy

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/16/how-social-media-helps-dictators/

How Social Media Helps Dictators It's been hailed as "liberation technology." But it has a darker side. By Erica Chenoweth. November 16, 2016, 1:46 PM.

 

The Press in the Third Reich | Holocaust Encyclopedia

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-press-in-the-third-reich

Establishing Control of the Press When Adolf Hitler took power in 1933, the Nazis controlled less than three percent of Germany's 4,700 papers. The elimination of the German multi-party political system brought about the demise of hundreds of newspapers produced by outlawed political parties.

Nazi Propaganda and Censorship | Holocaust Encyclopedia

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda-and-censorship

Nazi Propaganda and Censorship The Nazis wanted Germans to support the Nazi dictatorship and believe in Nazi ideas. To accomplish this goal, they tried to control forms of communication through censorship and propaganda. This included control of newspapers, magazines, books, art, theater, music, movies, and radio. How did the Nazis use censorship?

[calfoxwc]

How Kremlin Controls Major Russia Media

https://www.kremlinwatch.eu/userfiles/how-kremlin-controls-major-russian-media.pdf

How Kremlin controls major Russian media Mass media in Russia have changed significantly since the days of President Yeltsin and the contrast with the free and independent media in Russia of just 20 years ago has been ever so evident for the past three years, with Russia's media turning from a market into a state-organized system of propaganda

How the Kremlin gained control of Russia's media | Reuters ...

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/risj-review/how-kremlin-gained-control-russias-media

How the Kremlin gained control of Russia's media. Allegations of Russian interference in global affairs, including the US and French presidential elections and the UK's Brexit referendum, have highlighted the Kremlin's influence on some of the biggest political issues. In her new paper, 'Human wrongs: How state-backed media helped the Kremlin ...

The Man Behind the Kremlin's Control of the Russian Media ...

https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/the-man-behind-the-kremlins-control-of-the-russian-media

Credit: kremlin.ru Alexey Gromov. Described as an unassuming man whose passions include collecting antique coins, Gromov is nonetheless a key manager of the Putin government's control over what gets said — or not — in Russia's major print and broadcast media. He is also a co-creator of RT, the international propaganda network formerly ...

Putin's Press: How Russia's President Controls The News ...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vladimir-putin-russia-news-media_n_56215944e4b0bce34700b1df

Media outlets became more firmly incorporated into the Kremlin's policy efforts, moving from supporting the government with biased news to actively participating in an "information war" with its perceived adversaries.

Russian state media: The Kremlin controls too many ...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/07/russian-state-media-the-kremlin-controls-too-many-journalists.html

Equally important, however, is the question of where they all went. Despite the auspicious beginnings, almost all of the Russian media have come under direct or indirect control of the Kremlin.