National teachers union, courted by Biden, launches effort to fight critics of critical race theory in schools

[Vambo]

U.S.

National teachers union, courted by Biden, launches effort to fight critics of critical race theory in schools

[MLD Woody]

It's pretty obvious no conservative even knows what CRT actually is and this is just the new boogey man for the party. Create a problem, drive fear, and then offer a solution. Get the base going. 

Cancel Culture

CRT

Etc

[The Cysko Kid]

How many black people were in your engineering classes at Michigan?

[Vambo]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

It's pretty obvious no conservative even knows what CRT actually is and this is just the new boogey man for the party. Create a problem, drive fear, and then offer a solution. Get the base going. 

Cancel Culture

CRT

Etc

Well then please explain it to us...if you can and you're not just talking out your ASS!

[Vambo]

 

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

How many black people were in your engineering classes at Michigan?

They were very much a minority. Why does that matter exactly?

 

The same group on here fainting over CRR didn't even know it existed a few months ago. This is the right wing inventing a problem to rally their base around. That's it. 

[Vambo]

8 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

They were very much a minority. Why does that matter exactly?

 

The same group on here fainting over CRR didn't even know it existed a few months ago. This is the right wing inventing a problem to rally their base around. That's it. 

Well then please explain it to us...if you can and you're not just talking out your ASS!

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Vambo said:

Well then please explain it to us...if you can and you're not just talking out your ASS!

you can bet nobody around here knew about crt until biden's handlers brought it up.

they aren't serious about critical race theory - it's a weapon they use with force.

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

They were very much a minority. Why does that matter exactly?

 

The same group on here fainting over CRR didn't even know it existed a few months ago. This is the right wing inventing a problem to rally their base around. That's it. 

Is it because the university of Michigan is racist? Or math? Were they unable to do the math because of racism?

[Vambo]

3 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

They were very much a minority. Why does that matter exactly?

 

The same group on here fainting over CRR didn't even know it existed a few months ago. This is the right wing inventing a problem to rally their base around. That's it. 

Biden calls top donor NEA ‘one of America’s indispensable organizations’

Biden told members of the teachers union, 'You deserve a raise'

CRITICAL RACE THEORY TO BE TARGETED, ‘RESEARCHED’ BY NEA TEACHER'S UNION 

[VaporTrail]

3 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The same group on here fainting over CRR didn't even know it existed a few months ago. This is the right wing inventing a problem to rally their base around. That's it. 

Are they rallying their base around it? Absolutely. Are they inventing the problem out of thin air? I don't think so. 

You have polls such as the above suggesting that millenials are approaching a 50/50 split of whether or not the government should censor things because minorities find them offensive. 

Higher education is getting rid of standardized exams because black and hispanic students not performing as well as the white and asian students. These same people also discriminate against asians and basically require higher test scores to get into medical school than their black and hispanic counterparts. The AAMC stopped publishing the above data in 2016 with no explanation as to why. 

This has me, a classical liberal, wondering how the fuck almost half of liberals have wholeheartedly gotten onboard with wanting the government to curb free speech and using systemic racism in the fight to end systemic racism. 6-7 years ago, I never would have believed I'd be closer to Steve and Cal on this issue than you. There's plenty of insidious racism, such as the example I've pointed out above that is an issue worth discussing (though hardly anyone is).

Your argument against the conservatives here is a semantic one, and you're right in that the academic definition of CRT is not what they're rallying against. What they're rallying against is the more cartoonish racism and idiocy that has been pumped out by multiple mainstream media outlets and social media since the death of George Floyd and the ensuing riots (e.g. - "in defense of looting," "white fragility"). To say it's something they're completely making up is pretty disingenuous. 

[MLD Woody]

6 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Are they rallying their base around it? Absolutely. Are they inventing the problem out of thin air? I don't think so. 

You have polls such as the above suggesting that millenials are approaching a 50/50 split of whether or not the government should censor things because minorities find them offensive. 

Higher education is getting rid of standardized exams because black and hispanic students not performing as well as the white and asian students. These same people also discriminate against asians and basically require higher test scores to get into medical school than their black and hispanic counterparts. The AAMC stopped publishing the above data in 2016 with no explanation as to why. 

This has me, a classical liberal, wondering how the fuck almost half of liberals have wholeheartedly gotten onboard with wanting the government to curb free speech and using systemic racism in the fight to end systemic racism. 6-7 years ago, I never would have believed I'd be closer to Steve and Cal on this issue than you. There's plenty of insidious racism, such as the example I've pointed out above that is an issue worth discussing (though hardly anyone is).

Your argument against the conservatives here is a semantic one, and you're right in that the academic definition of CRT is not what they're rallying against. What they're rallying against is the more cartoonish racism and idiocy that has been pumped out by multiple mainstream media outlets and social media since the death of George Floyd and the ensuing riots (e.g. - "in defense of looting," "white fragility"). To say it's something they're completely making up is pretty disingenuous. 

 

 

I believe they are inventing there being a problem with CRT and I believe most of them have no idea what it really is. Anything that makes whites (generally older, conservative ones) uncomfortable about race is something they're trying to end. This has gone from a study of systemic racism and how it affects people in this country to, somehow, kindergarteners being taught that it is bad to be white... or whatever ridiculous shit Tucker is feeding the base. It creates a fake problem to get everyone going. An individual in the conservative / MAGA base gets to create their own definition of CRT, not like what that definition means for them, and then complain about it happening (though it isn't). Then they can latch on to the politicians and media that agree with their fabricated belief and that want to fix it.

 

Standardized tests are also going away because there are questions around how well they actually determine the qualifications of a college applicant, regardless of race.

I don't agree with govt. censorship of a regular individual's speech, believe me. I would be surprised if you really are aligned more towards Cal, and you may be giving him too much credit.

The "issue" of CRT is a fabricated one. We should understand our country's racist past, the policies created in the mold of that racism, and how it still affects society today. We should also understand current examples of systemic racism for the same reason. Yes, this will paint some white people from the past in a potentially bad light. No, it isn't teaching white kids to "hate themselves" or whatever the hell is being made up currently. Conservatives wanting to stop any studies or talks like this because it makes them uncomfortable, essentially, is ridiculous. 

I would agree that we should look just as closely are current policies that are potentially hurting asians, whites, etc. It would be interesting digging into those acceptance numbers more, but I am sure there is a diversity bonus in many instances. It would also be worth it to see how those black and hispanic students turn out.

 

At the end of the day, I'm commenting on the mostly made-up and exaggerated "issue" of Critical Race Theory by the right as a way to rile up the base. After never discussing it to being all they discuss, it is clear what is being attempted here. And posters like Cal and others are eating it up. I am not sure what the Republican part actually stands for or believes at this point, but they've decided to turn this collegiate, academic theory into the biggest issue facing America to score points with MAGA conservatives. That is clear. The gay agenda, cancel culture, trans rights, etc. This is just the next fake issue.

 

 

 

The democratic party is full of a bunch of pussies that seem to not want to actually do anything.

The republican party is full of people actively trying to move us backward.

All of them are bought and sold by lobbies

Our options suck. We need more than two parties.

[VaporTrail]

You're still focused on the academic definition of CRT and ignoring the the deluge of woke mobshit that's become intertwined with it. Here are some posts from John McWharton on the topic. He's a black, ivy league professor of linguistics. Probably about as opposite of a person as you can think of from some of the posters here that you are bashing. 

What Is Third-Wave Anti-racism? - The Atlantic

YOU ARE NOT A RACIST TO CRITICIZE CRITICAL RACE THEORY. - by John McWhorter - It Bears Mentioning (substack.com) "Dismiss those pretending that if you don't like what's happening in our schools, you're a jingoistic moron who doesn't want kids to learn about racism."

I ask you to read them, especially the second one, because the subheader of the article is describing what you are doing in this thread. He is making the counter argument to basically everything you're saying much more eloquently than I could. 

[Westside Steve]

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[VaporTrail]

If McWharton was teaching the country on the topic of American history and race relations, I think that we'd be in a better place. Unfortunately, people who are able to see that folks on both sides of this issue have valid points are few and far between. And I certainly don't trust the education majors I graduated with to lead an open, nuanced, and rational discussion on this complex issue. 

Quote

The democratic party is full of a bunch of pussies that seem to not want to actually do anything.

The republican party is full of people actively trying to move us backward.

All of them are bought and sold by lobbies

Our options suck. We need more than two parties.

You're right in that the system needs an un-fucking. What would also be helpful to an open discourse and discussion would be acknowledging that the other side has valid points instead of summarily dismissing their complaints as imaginary. I've seen you call people out for gaslighting, and that's exactly what you're doing in this thread. 

[Westside Steve]

One should admit that lowering the standards to get into the U of M engineering program kind of take some of the shine off earning a diploma.

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

Well vapor showed up and did a much better job getting to the root of the issue than me and then posted some links for you to read someone that gets to it even better than that. 

 

Still what I want you to do is acknowledge either that the university of Michigan, math and engineering is racist 

 

Or...

That black people could have gotten into the engineering program if they'd simply fucking wanted it. 

[MLD Woody]

10 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

You're still focused on the academic definition of CRT and ignoring the the deluge of woke mobshit that's become intertwined with it. Here are some posts from John McWharton on the topic. He's a black, ivy league professor of linguistics. Probably about as opposite of a person as you can think of from some of the posters here that you are bashing. 

What Is Third-Wave Anti-racism? - The Atlantic

YOU ARE NOT A RACIST TO CRITICIZE CRITICAL RACE THEORY. - by John McWhorter - It Bears Mentioning (substack.com) "Dismiss those pretending that if you don't like what's happening in our schools, you're a jingoistic moron who doesn't want kids to learn about racism."

I ask you to read them, especially the second one, because the subheader of the article is describing what you are doing in this thread. He is making the counter argument to basically everything you're saying much more eloquently than I could. 

I read the second one. The guy makes a lot of sense. Honestly though, I think he is giving the group opposing CRT too much credit. I don't think there is any understanding of nuance in that group. The term has been weaponized and skewed to perform a political operation. That would be my biggest criticism with that article. It seems like an academic describing something with the impression all sides he's describing are also academic. 

He definitely is far from the posters on here. I won't doubt you there. 

The discussion of the concepts of CRT (or "modern" CRT) and what to teach in school and the argument/debate going on around it in PTA meetings and shown on conservative media are two different things. That's where my main disagreement with the author of the article you posted would be. 

You can criticize the use of anti CRT rhetoric (spurred on for political gain) and still think we shouldn't teach "don't trust the white kid next to you" in class. That's where I'm falling on this.

[MLD Woody]

4 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

If McWharton was teaching the country on the topic of American history and race relations, I think that we'd be in a better place. Unfortunately, people who are able to see that folks on both sides of this issue have valid points are few and far between. And I certainly don't trust the education majors I graduated with to lead an open, nuanced, and rational discussion on this complex issue. 

You're right in that the system needs an un-fucking. What would also be helpful to an open discourse and discussion would be acknowledging that the other side has valid points instead of summarily dismissing their complaints as imaginary. I've seen you call people out for gaslighting, and that's exactly what you're doing in this thread. 

 

At best I see valid points to problems that don't exist. 

I'm not joining the anti wokeness crusade, sorry. In many cases it's overblown. That's somewhat of a different discussion. 

[Vambo]

1 minute ago, MLD Woody said:

 

At best I see valid points to problems that don't exist. 

I'm not joining the anti wokeness crusade, sorry. In many cases it's overblown. That's somewhat of a different discussion. 

Well then please explain it to us...if you can and you're not just talking out your ASS!

 

 

[MLD Woody]

3 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Well vapor showed up and did a much better job getting to the root of the issue than me and then posted some links for you to read someone that gets to it even better than that. 

 

Still what I want you to do is acknowledge either that the university of Michigan, math and engineering is racist 

 

Or...

That black people could have gotten into the engineering program if they'd simply fucking wanted it. 

Is that what you were attempting to do earlier? That was your gotcha? Alright...

 

Do you really think those are the only two options here? That much of a black and white reality?  There's a lot that goes into this and you just want A or B. And if you don't get one of those you'll claim victory. This exact type of post is why a deeper understanding of race and policies affected by it would be a beneficial part of education.

 

I would break everything down by economic status first. Regardless of race what's the breakdown based on family income, education level, etc. Also what's the breakdown for students that already have had exposure to STEM classes in high school, where are those high schools located, and what are the racial makeups of those schools (and "why" are they that way). How about the breakdown if the student already has an engineer in their family. Etc etc etc

 

Math and engineering aren't racist. There are policies during the history of our country that are affected by systemic racism that could result today in worse performance in those fields by different groups. 

 

I don't think anything I say here will get us to see eye to eye. So just go tell black people to not be lazy or whatever you're working towards. 

[Vambo]

10 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Is that what you were attempting to do earlier? That was your gotcha? Alright...

 

Do you really think those are the only two options here? That much of a black and white reality?  There's a lot that goes into this and you just want A or B. And if you don't get one of those you'll claim victory. This exact type of post is why a deeper understanding of race and policies affected by it would be a beneficial part of education.

 

I would break everything down by economic status first. Regardless of race what's the breakdown based on family income, education level, etc. Also what's the breakdown for students that already have had exposure to STEM classes in high school, where are those high schools located, and what are the racial makeups of those schools (and "why" are they that way). How about the breakdown if the student already has an engineer in their family. Etc etc etc

 

Math and engineering aren't racist. There are policies during the history of our country that are affected by systemic racism that could result today in worse performance in those fields by different groups. 

 

I don't think anything I say here will get us to see eye to eye. So just go tell black people to not be lazy or whatever you're working towards. 

Translation... Woody has no clue what CRT is!

[Canton Dawg]

28 minutes ago, Vambo said:

Translation... Woody has no clue what CRT is!

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Is that what you were attempting to do earlier? That was your gotcha? Alright...

 

Do you really think those are the only two options here? That much of a black and white reality?  There's a lot that goes into this and you just want A or B. And if you don't get one of those you'll claim victory. This exact type of post is why a deeper understanding of race and policies affected by it would be a beneficial part of education.

 

I would break everything down by economic status first. Regardless of race what's the breakdown based on family income, education level, etc. Also what's the breakdown for students that already have had exposure to STEM classes in high school, where are those high schools located, and what are the racial makeups of those schools (and "why" are they that way). How about the breakdown if the student already has an engineer in their family. Etc etc etc

 

Math and engineering aren't racist. There are policies during the history of our country that are affected by systemic racism that could result today in worse performance in those fields by different groups. 

 

I don't think anything I say here will get us to see eye to eye. So just go tell black people to not be lazy or whatever you're working towards. 

What policies, exactly, keep black people from excelling at math or reading a book? 

I bet the university of Michigan is absolutely bending over backwards to get them into stem programs, isn't it?

But...they're still not signing up, are they?

[The Cysko Kid]

You know what would be a great decision? Lower the standards. Why? So you can have a whole new generation of Kansas City Hyatt Regency disasters. 

[Vambo]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Is that what you were attempting to do earlier? That was your gotcha? Alright...

 

Do you really think those are the only two options here? That much of a black and white reality?  There's a lot that goes into this and you just want A or B. And if you don't get one of those you'll claim victory. This exact type of post is why a deeper understanding of race and policies affected by it would be a beneficial part of education.

 

I would break everything down by economic status first. Regardless of race what's the breakdown based on family income, education level, etc. Also what's the breakdown for students that already have had exposure to STEM classes in high school, where are those high schools located, and what are the racial makeups of those schools (and "why" are they that way). How about the breakdown if the student already has an engineer in their family. Etc etc etc

 

Math and engineering aren't racist. There are policies during the history of our country that are affected by systemic racism that could result today in worse performance in those fields by different groups. 

 

I don't think anything I say here will get us to see eye to eye. So just go tell black people to not be lazy or whatever you're working towards. 

Proponents of new math say the way the subject currently is taught is suffused with White supremacy. They say it handicaps some minority students by insisting on what they consider racist concepts — such as arriving at correct answers.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jun/6/is-mathematics-racist-california-could-blaze-pathw/

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

What policies, exactly, keep black people from excelling at math or reading a book? 

I bet the university of Michigan is absolutely bending over backwards to get them into stem programs, isn't it?

But...they're still not signing up, are they?

An example would be racist housing policies in the past, leading to segregated neighborhoods, and investments/resources being split historically. Then you get naturally worse education in some areas that students need to overcome to get into top schools, perform better on tests, etc. The issues are, in many cases, decades old. Again, a breakdown by economic status makes more sense. 

 

If you want to think black people are naturally dumber or something, go ahead. You do you. 

[Canton Dawg]

43 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Then you get naturally worse education in some areas that students need to overcome to get into top schools, perform better on tests, etc. The issues are, in many cases, decades old.

This is a myth that was dispelled in the 70’s with the failed bussing segregation laws.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

8 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

This is a myth that was dispelled in the 70’s with the failed bussing segregation laws.

That's what he was taught by his commie professors.