Kevin Stefanski's Number One Play: Outside Zone

[Vambo]

 

[tiamat63]

@calfoxwc

When I said I want my tackles to move and reach block when running OZ....

Please watch the above.

[SdBacker80]

A couple things...Nick Chubb is going to set records next year.  Ideal fit for him with the patient run style he employs.

And It ain’t a secret I don’t like NJoku.  I think we trade him and bring in a better Run blocking complement with this scheme.  We have Hooper as a red zone target and general pass threat target.  

[Canton Mike]

29 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

A couple things...Nick Chubb is going to set records next year.  Ideal fit for him with the patient run style he employs.

And It ain’t a secret I don’t like NJoku.  I think we trade him and bring in a better Run blocking complement with this scheme.  We have Hooper as a red zone target and general pass threat target.  

I don't like Njoku either, but with Stefanski running a lot of 2 tight ends, we may be stuck with him. Who knows what may happen, but if we trade him, I won't complain.

He may be a physical specimen, but it remains to be seen if & when he learns to block, run patterns, & hold onto the damn ball.

BTW, it's scary what Chubb will do in this ZBS.

Mike

[Tour2ma]

Holy over-explaining, Batman...

10 to 1 Cook got a little coaching in the RB room for not being a tad more patient and cutting off his LG's ass...

[The Gipper]

34 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

I don't like Njoku either, but with Stefanski running a lot of 2 tight ends, we may be stuck with him. Who knows what may happen, but if we trade him, I won't complain.

He may be a physical specimen, but it remains to be seen if & when he learns to block, run patterns, & hold onto the damn ball.

BTW, it's scary what Chubb will do in this ZBS.

Mike

Well,  also be aware that TE Ricky Seal-Jones was a FA that signed elsewhere.   So, with this  two TE set, unless you think the Browns would go for a TE high in the draft.....which we have no business doing....Njoku stays.   Pharoh Brown backs up.   Njoku, who is still young----ONLY 23,  is a likely better "prospect" than any TE that can be had in this draft. 

[SdBacker80]

59 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Holy over-explaining, Batman...

10 to 1 Cook got a little coaching in the RB room for not being a tad more patient and cutting off his LG's ass...

Yeah he clearly missed that spot.  Chubb would have found that made contact with someone 10/12 yards down the field and fallen forward for another 3 or 4. 

[SdBacker80]

55 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well,  also be aware that TE Ricky Seal-Jones was a FA that signed elsewhere.   So, with this  two TE set, unless you think the Browns would go for a TE high in the draft.....which we have no business doing....Njoku stays.   Pharoh Brown backs up.   Njoku, who is still young----ONLY 23,  is a likely better "prospect" than any TE that can be had in this draft. 

First, Seals has a redundant skill set with Hooper.  He left but is hereally a guy we need at this point? He’s a luxury. 

i think there is better value in the draft with a TE that has shown he can block effectively especially in this new scheme.  We may find a day three guy that can block better and has a better football IQ than Njoku.  I think there are quite a few guys out there that can.  I think that’s the biggest problem with Njoku he flashes a remarkable catch in the red zone and than appears to have brain farts throughout the rest of the game.  I think he would be good for a hold or two a game in this ZBS. 
 

When Njoku figures it all out he will be on his second contract with another team.  We can still get something for him now 

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, SdBacker80 said:

First, Seals has a redundant skill set with Hooper.  He left but is a really a guy we need at this point? He’s a luxury. 

i think there is better value in the draft with a TE that has shown he can block effectively especially in this new scheme.  We may find a day three guy that can block better and has a better football IQ than Njoku.  I think there are quite a few guys out there that can.  I think that’s the biggest problem with Njoku he flashes a remarkable catch in the red zone and than appears to have brain farts throughout the rest of the game.  I think he would be good for a hold or two a game in this ZBS. 
 

When Njoku figures it all out he will be on his second contract with another team.  We can still get something for him now 

Well....I don't think that  Njoku would ever be slated as the "blocking TE"....but why should he be?  His skills are going to be at catching the ball and running with it.   Which he CAN do.....though inconsistently at this point, sure. 

I am going to assume that Hooper will be more the blocker  (unless you think one of the backups would do that).  He is thicker, probably slower,  while stil being a real "hands" guy. A possession guy. 

[nickers]

21 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....I don't think that  Njoku would ever be slated as the "blocking TE"....but why should he be?  His skills are going to be at catching the ball and running with it.   Which he CAN do.....though inconsistently at this point, sure. 

I am going to assume that Hooper will be more the blocker  (unless you think one of the backups would do that).  He is thicker, probably slower,  while stil being a real "hands" guy. A possession guy. 

Isn't Steve Carlson still on the roster , too?

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, nickers said:

Isn't Steve Carlson still on the roster , too?

Yes.  (will we carry 4 TEs?)

[SdBacker80]

43 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....I don't think that  Njoku would ever be slated as the "blocking TE"....but why should he be?  His skills are going to be at catching the ball and running with it.   Which he CAN do.....though inconsistently at this point, sure. 

I am going to assume that Hooper will be more the blocker  (unless you think one of the backups would do that).  He is thicker, probably slower,  while stil being a real "hands" guy. A possession guy. 

Hooper wasn’t paid the big bucks just to block.  He was paid that money to do it all including the things that Njoku hasn’t been able to do at this point.   

[gumby73]

23 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

i think there is better value in the draft with a TE that has shown he can block effectively especially in this new scheme.  We may find a day three guy that can block better and has a better football IQ than Njoku.  I think there are quite a few guys out there that can.  

here's s a day 3 guy that could stay right here in Ohio.. had a good combine & they say he's the blocking TE ninja teams look for...may lose the Njoku redzone highpoint target?   but... 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/josiah-deguara/C3YabgX51G    still on board 5th thru 7th..why not?  

[SdBacker80]

21 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

here's s a day 3 guy that could stay right here in Ohio.. had a good combine & they say he's the blocking TE ninja teams look for...may lose the Njoku redzone highpoint target?   but... 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/josiah-deguara/C3YabgX51G    still on board 5th thru 7th..why not?  

He’s solid.  I remember him in the UC Memphis games (both) and the OSU game.  

[htownbrown]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Holy over-explaining, Batman...

10 to 1 Cook got a little coaching in the RB room for not being a tad more patient and cutting off his LG's ass...

Alexander Mattison.  Cook would have made the cut.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

We may find a day three guy that can block better and has a better football IQ than Njoku.

Hard to access their football IQs, but Stanford's Parkinson and Vandy's Pinkney certainly fill the bill blocking. Pass receiving? Well there's a reason they are on Day 3...

 

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

@calfoxwc

When I said I want my tackles to move and reach block when running OZ....

Please watch the above.

 

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Holy over-explaining, Batman...

10 to 1 Cook got a little coaching in the RB room for not being a tad more patient and cutting off his LG's ass...

 I honestly saw that hole open up inside the LG - by going wide, that defensive player might have been able to spin off the block and shut it down, or force it to a cutback,...

    so, this is trap blocking, or is that slightly? a different deal ?

Another dumb question - if the de went to his left, the ROG would have to go with him.. and the lb could shoot the gap?

If the defense does run stunts to confuse the blocking, the olinemen had better be quick on their feet, have great balance and be pretty smart, right?

Hey, this is good stuff. I don't mind asking. !

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

 

 I honestly saw that hole open up inside the LG - by going wide, that defensive player might have been able to spin off the block and shut it down, or force it to a cutback,...

    so, this is trap blocking, or is that slightly? a different deal ?

Another dumb question - if the de went to his left, the ROG would have to go with him.. and the lb could shoot the gap?

If the defense does run stunts to confuse the blocking, the olinemen had better be quick on their feet, have great balance and be pretty smart, right?

Hey, this is good stuff. I don't mind asking. !

 

A trap is when a backfield blocker picks up a deliberately unblocked defensive lineman.   Most commonly a fullback picking up a defensive interior.    But there are different names for some traps. For example, if a TE on the wing crosses the formation to pick up an edge, I know that as a "flash" block,  but it is a form of trap blocking.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

26 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

A trap is when a backfield blocker picks up a deliberately unblocked defensive lineman.   Most commonly a fullback picking up a defensive interior.    But there are different names for some traps. For example, if a TE on the wing crosses the formation to pick up an edge, I know that as a "flash" block,  but it is a form of trap blocking.

 

 

Learn something every day ! Thanks.

[Icecube]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well,  also be aware that TE Ricky Seal-Jones was a FA that signed elsewhere.   So, with this  two TE set, unless you think the Browns would go for a TE high in the draft.....which we have no business doing....Njoku stays.   Pharoh Brown backs up.   Njoku, who is still young----ONLY 23,  is a likely better "prospect" than any TE that can be had in this draft. 

Wow, only 23? But all I have seen is "potential" which doesn't cut it. He's a physical beast who ain't really a player. We'll see. 

[Icecube]

11 hours ago, Vambo said:

 

Vambo, you're excellent, but this vid took over 10 minute before it moved. LOL 

[Vambo]

1 minute ago, Icecube said:

Vambo, you're excellent, but this vid took over 10 minute before it moved. LOL 

Did you have the audio off? 

[Tour2ma]

There was audio?

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

A trap is when a backfield blocker picks up a deliberately unblocked defensive lineman.   Most commonly a fullback picking up a defensive interior.    But there are different names for some traps. For example, if a TE on the wing crosses the formation to pick up an edge, I know that as a "flash" block,  but it is a form of trap blocking.

How old are you?

The classic power trap is an OG pulling past the Center's butt to earhole an unsuspecting DT or DE who gets excited when he's left unblocked usually by the opposite side OT and gets a step or two across the line before he realizes he's in trouble.

Of course that's from the age when the Power game was the only run game.

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

1.  I honestly saw that hole open up inside the LG - by going wide, that defensive player might have been able to spin off the block and shut it down, or force it to a cutback,...
2.  Another dumb question - if the de went to his left, the ROG would have to go with him.. and the lb could shoot the gap?
3. If the defense does run stunts to confuse the blocking, the olinemen had better be quick on their feet, have great balance and be pretty smart, right?

1. Since blockers aren't really tying up their D assignment a quick defender might try to spin back in, but the OL does have inside leverage so that plus a decisive RB should mean he has to run through the arm tackle that the DL should at best get on him.
2. On a wide zone Left if the backside DE goes to his left (the Offense's right), then you let him go since he's taking himself out of the play. That frees the RG to flow to his Center and LG blocking in the middle, while being mindful of possible backside pursuit by another player.
3. Absolutely... this play developed into a collection of straight-up, strung-out, one-on-one "blocks", but closer spacing can lead to OL "handing off" defenders to one of their line-mates. You see a hint of this at the 14:00 mark with the Center (#56) scraping across the NT's face setting up his RG to take him while the Center continues to the LB. Back when I graded our OL I saw OL literally handing defenders to each other in what I used to call a "Conga Line". When they were all on the same page, working in unison, it was a thing of beauty.

Also note Cousins carrying out a play fake after getting the ball to the RB. If the D gets too aggressive, then a couple audibles to bootleg-right plays off the same look and action will cool some of that aggression.

[tiamat63]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

There was audio?

How old are you?

The classic power trap is an OG pulling past the Center's butt to earhole an unsuspecting DT or DE who gets excited when he's left unblocked usually by the opposite side OT and gets a step or two across the line before he realizes he's in trouble.

Of course that's from the age when the Power game was the only run game.

1. Since blockers aren't really tying up their D assignment a quick defender might try to spin back in, but the OL does have inside leverage so that plus a decisive RB should mean he has to run through the arm tackle that the DL should at best get on him.
2. On a wide zone Left if the backside DE goes to his left (the Offense's right), then you let him go since he's taking himself out of the play. That frees the RG to flow to his Center and LG blocking in the middle, while being mindful of possible backside pursuit by another player.
3. Absolutely... this play developed into a collection of straight-up, strung-out, one-on-one "blocks", but closer spacing can lead to OL "handing off" defenders to one of their line-mates. You see a hint of this at the 14:00 mark with the Center (#56) scraping across the NT's face setting up his RG to take him while the Center continues to the LB. Back when I graded our OL I saw OL literally handing defenders to each other in what I used to call a "Conga Line". When they were all on the same page, working in unison, it was a thing of beauty.

Also note Cousins carrying out a play fake after getting the ball to the RB. If the D gets too aggressive, then a couple audibles to bootleg-right plays off the same look and action will cool some of that aggression.

Old enough to tell you that Curtis Martin and Mike Alstott were my favorite running backs. I'm the generation who freaked out getting an N64. But young enough to yell you that Predator was already on cable TV before I watched it as a kid.  Censored on WGN, of course.

I'll be honest, I had all but forgotten about the classic power traps. I can't remember the last time I played any ball and saw one even.

Anymore these days it's all inline trap, flash and wham blocks.    Thanks for coming to my rescue. Can't leave out the OG style.

[Tour2ma]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I'll be honest, I had all but forgotten about the classic power traps. I can't remember the last time I played any ball and saw one even.

Anymore these days it's all inline trap, flash and wham blocks.    Thanks for coming to my rescue. Can't leave out the OG style.

lol... I figured as much... that or you were trying to make a geezer feel good by leaving him room to contribute.

Actually found it interesting that your first thoughts were of traps off a ZBS and mine were of "old school" ball.

Of course mine includes the most famous trap of all... or at least one of the best known...

https://www.chiefs.com/video/chiefs-greatest-moments-65-toss-power-trap

Now THAT's a trap!

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... I figured as much... that or you were trying to make a geezer feel good by leaving him room to contribute.

Actually found it interesting that your first thoughts were of traps off a ZBS and mine were of "old school" ball.

Of course mine includes the most famous trap of all... or at least one of the best known...

https://www.chiefs.com/video/chiefs-greatest-moments-65-toss-power-trap

Now THAT's a trap!

When you wrote power trap, that is literally the clip my mind went to LOL.

Most of where the running game has shifted to is IZ, split zone, inverted reads, etc etc.  Not much "pure power/pull" left out there.   No more student body left, student body right.

Also, reply coming momentarily you way in the other thread.  You caught me typing while over there.

 

 

[Tour2ma]

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 No more student body left, student body right.

Which is funny since in a wide zone literally everyone moves one way vs. in the phrase's heyday at USC(?) when it was basically the two OGs pulling plus a FB. Offside OT did crash, but play-side OT and TE, if any, drove block.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... I figured as much... that or you were trying to make a geezer feel good by leaving him room to contribute.

Actually found it interesting that your first thoughts were of traps off a ZBS and mine were of "old school" ball.

Of course mine includes the most famous trap of all... or at least one of the best known...

https://www.chiefs.com/video/chiefs-greatest-moments-65-toss-power-trap

Now THAT's a trap!

Thanks Admiral Akbar.    

[Icecube]

On 4/7/2020 at 11:56 PM, Vambo said:

Did you have the audio off? 

Yea, audio with no video movement for 10 minutes. 😁