UPDATE: Navy recommends reinstating captain of coronavirus-stricken aircraft carrier

[Tour2ma]

Seems pretty popular with his crew...

 

 

[Tour2ma]

The GOAT...

 

[calfoxwc]

oh, not AGAIN !

You did it again, Mr. ???

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and now, for the REST OF THE STORY Tour doesn't tell.

The commander was wrong in HOW he did it. Letting the information become public is a disgrace -

I suppose politically motivated. Why do I say that?

Because one of the most fundamental requirements in the military in dealing with problems, is going

through the CHAIN OF COMMAND. he violated that, hugely. He never went through the chain of command.

That is UCMJ, Tour, from the gitgo.

   and, letting it become public - puts America's defense at risk - the destroyer is known to be unable to be deployed

over the virus being on the ship. Can you imagine if china was ready to come after us militarily to whatever degree... that they knew this ship and a few other ships, like aircraft carriers, were unable to be deployed over this virus??? It's an open invitation to start up military hostilities in areas of the world they want to take over.

  Classified military information - is like the maintenance of aircraft engines, wheel bearings, etc. Why? because collectively, an enemy could accrue enough of that kind of information to give them an advantage in battle. If they know how many hrs our planes can fly until they are grounded for repairs, they could try to figure a chance to really hit us at the right time. Stuff like that.

  Now, sailors with a disease, how many? of course that should have been handled secretly, up through the chain of command. It wasn't. The commander is lucky that it may not have been his fault, but still...it reeks of political partisanship to embarrass a president he doesn't like.

  The fact that he was a very popular commander doesn't absolve him from following military protocol.

 

[calfoxwc]

https://www.businessinsider.com/uss-theodore-roosevelt-commander-fired-after-unclassified-email-2020-4

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

He never went through the chain of command.

And you know that how?

 

I am well aware of the Chain of Command, cal. Pretty sure the Capt. was as well... don't ya think?

So I have to believe that something drove him to go outside it... likely an unresponsive chain. And why wouldn't it be given the indecisive dolt at the top?

I am sure we'll find out when the Captain is called before the House Armed Services Committee.

The point is he knew the likely consequences and yet he went outside the chain anyway.... he put his crew before his career.

In my book that's brave. His crew seemed to think so, too.

As for our national security... I don't feel one iota less safe from a military attack tonite than I have the past 3 years, 2 months and 14 days.

 

And "The Big Stick" is an aircraft carrier, Private...

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

Now, sailors with a disease, how many? of course that should have been handled secretly, up through the chain of command. It wasn't. The commander is lucky that it may not have been his fault, but still...it reeks of political partisanship to embarrass a president he doesn't like.

Last count I heard was 150 have tested positive... out of roughly 5000. Two days ago it was ~100.

How long would you wait for orders while watching your case count climb exponentially before you took action?

 

lol... "he might not like our President"... lol ... Such an easy dismissal... such a sensitive nose... "Everyone is against our President..." lol...

You're a frickin' case study for PPD...

 

Have I ever mentioned I was a semester away from a second degree in Psych? Problem was I needed a year's residency in that BA college after graduating with my BS ChemE. I could have handled 4-1/2 years of undergrad, but not 5...

[MLD Woody]

This is one of those stories where if it happened during the Obama administration I know Cal's response would be the complete opposite.

 

I mean just about all of his responses are based on party, not his own values, but this one especially I know would be reversed.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I am sure we'll find out when the Captain is called before the House Armed Services Committee.

The point is he knew the likely consequences and yet he went outside the chain anyway.... he put his crew before his career.

In my book that's brave. His crew seemed to think so, too.

your book is wrong. That is just irresponsible. He put his crew in danger - if we were attacked militarily, like at Pearl Harbor, he made his aircraft carrier an easy target, if the pandemic disabled his ship from putting out to sea. I worked with commanders, Tour. I was an expert on the UCMJ. Commanders would come to me and ask me what regs pertained to a particular concern, and I'd know them.

  I even designed a new way to organize them. My commander submitted paperwork to recommend the new way of organizing them to become established as official.They had been organized in numerical order. volumes and volumes. I was selected to serve on the entire Air Force INSPECTOR GENERAL's inspection of our base as our squadron's only rep. That is a high honor.

  You may know what "chain of command" is, you can look it up. I've lived it in very high places, Tour. I KNOW what I'm talking about. He blasted out unsecured ...how many memos? WTF?

   No excuse from me. It's good he took action - but he broke protocol for no good reason. What the reason is, who knows, but I suspect he has TDS.

   Your college learnin' doesn't negate my experience in the military, plain and simple.

'The official cause for Captain Crozier's firing is showing "extremely poor judgment" in bringing attention to the spread of coronavirus amongst his crew. His sending of a letter calling for help "demonstrated extremely poor judgment in the middle of a crisis," Modly says. "Because what it's done is, it's created a firestorm. It's created doubts about the ship's ability to go to sea if it needs to. It's created doubt among the families about the health of their sailors, and that was a completely unnecessary thing to do in the midst of the crisis." '

**************************************************************

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/acting-navy-secretary-defends-firing-of-captain-who-warned-of-virus-outbreak-162877

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said Friday that his firing of the captain who raised the alarm about a coronavirus outbreak onboard a U.S. aircraft carrier was the "hardest thing that I've ever had to do."

"I know that in my heart and in the heart and mind of this particular officer, every single thing that he was doing was [with] the best interests of the crew in mind, for their lives and their safety," Modly told conservative talk radio host Hugh Hewitt of Capt. Brett Crozier, who was relieved Thursday of command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

"I know that he loves this crew. I know that the crew loves and respects him. But that's not an excuse for exercising the judgment that he did," Modly said. "So it was very, very difficult for me. I had wished that I would never have to make a decision like this."

 

Crozier's ouster came after he wrote a searing letter to Navy leaders notifying them of a spike in cases of Covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, among sailors on the carrier. The San Francisco Chronicle, Crozier's hometown newspaper, published the letter Tuesday.

In his letter, Crozier had requested that the Navy remove the "majority of personnel" from the carrier, writing: "If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset — our sailors."

Modly has argued that Crozier did not follow the proper chain of command in reporting his concerns, which Modly claimed were already being addressed at the time Crozier sent his letter.

Modly also faulted Crozier for sending the letter, which contained no classified information, over "non-secure, unclassified email" and copying "a broad array of people" on the correspondence.

Crozier should have instead conveyed his warning via the "direct line" Modly said he established between them "way before his letter was written."

The remarks from the acting secretary came shortly after several videos began circulating on social media Friday morning showing Crozier disembarking from the carrier while a throng of crew members cheered his name and offered loud applause for their former commanding officer.

Modly said Friday that roughly 140 people onboard had tested positive for Covid-19. Of that total, 42 sailors are asymptomatic and 95 are expressing "largely mild to moderate flu-like symptoms," he said.

"This is not an indictment of his entire career," Modly said of his decision to relieve Crozier. "He's had an absolutely incredible career. I'm envious of it. He's done some amazing things. But at this particular time, I needed a CO there that could help manage us through this crisis, and I just didn't think — based on those actions — that [he] could do that."

Rear Admiral Select Carlos Sardiello, the carrier's former commanding officer, will take over for Crozier and is expected to arrive in soon in Guam, Modly said. The ship berthed there amid its deployment to the Pacific region as the health crisis onboard worsened.

Modly said Tuesday that he had been working to offload sailors from the carrier for several days, but was experiencing difficulty finding available space for them to be quarantined in Guam.

Pacific Fleet Commander Adm. John Aquilino also said he was establishing a "rotational process" by which the sickened sailors would be quarantined on the island, tested and possibly sent back aboard if deemed healthy.

Modly said Friday that "there have been some amazing strides" made since the carrier and its 5,000 crew members pulled into Guam last week.

"We really didn't have a lot of places to put these guys and women," he said. "But within a week, we're up to about 3,700 different places that we're rolling people off to where they can stay and be in quarantine in some level of comfort while we go through the testing protocols and ensure that we have a crew on the ship that can operate all the things that need to be operated and safeguarded."

Despite Modly's optimism and the Navy's new response efforts, the episode is likely to further damage Defense Secretary Mark Esper's standing within the administration after the Pentagon has already come under criticism for its handling of coronavirus hot spots within the U.S. military.

Media reports indicate the disease has hit sailors on a second aircraft carrier that is pierside in Japan, the USS Ronald Reagan, as well as dozens of Marine recruits and staff members at the service's East Coast recruit training center at Parris Island, South Carolina — where additional arrivals have been suspended for the foreseeable future.

The Navy's boot camp at Great Lakes, Illinois, took the same preventative measure. But after four Air Force recruits at Joint Base Lackland-San Antonio, Texas, tested positive for the virus in less than a week, the service continued shipping recruits to basic training.

**************************************************

I figure the commander panicked and acted way overboard. Too bad, he lost his command. His crew will be without him.

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

I think we need a new book in the Bible. Let's call it the Book of Cal.😜 

1. And God sent forth his other chosen one and replaced his crown of thorns with the preferred one in the alternate universe.🤴 

LOL!😹

[calfoxwc]

which means nothing.

I have experts on my side:

https://www.redstate.com/darth641/2020/04/04/opinion-navy-captain-properly-relieved/

Mike Ford, a retired Infantry Officer, writes on Military, Foreign Affairs and occasionally dabbles in Political and Economic matters.

[Gorka]

43 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I think we need a new book in the Bible. Let's call it the Book of Cal.😜 

1. And God sent forth his other chosen one and replaced his crown of thorns with the preferred one in the alternate universe.🤴 

LOL!😹

The post right above yours was not the Book of Cal. It was the truth. It was what happened.

Cals military knowledge puts yours to shame. If you were in the military you would know all about the chain of command. Violating it is taken very seriously.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Bottom line is this.  And this is from me, 22 years in t he Navy retired.  He knew when he did this he would be relieved of command.  No question.  It would have happened during any Presidents term.  He knew his career would be over, and he would retire as an O6.   But his crew obviously loved his decision and for that I give him my respect.  However, letting your enemies know that one aircraft carrier is now not operational could cause harm to the country.  

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Gorka said:

The post right above yours was not the Book of Cal. It was the truth. It was what happened.

Cals military knowledge puts yours to shame. If you were in the military you would know all about the chain of command. Violating it is taken very seriously.

I'm just teasing cal and he knows that. Buy yourself a sense of humor. I have to give him a hard time now and again about the length of his posts. It's my job.

However I do believe that there was a breakdown in the response up and down the chain of command. At some point we may learn a lot more about what he did and why directly from him. Think I will wait on a final opinion once I've heard all sides of the story.

And I'll not be baited into another military experience comparison. End of that story.

[calfoxwc]

7 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm just teasing cal and he knows that.

WHAT ??????????????

lol

[Gorka]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm just teasing cal and he knows that. Buy yourself a sense of humor. I have to give him a hard time now and again about the length of his posts. It's my job.

However I do believe that there was a breakdown in the response up and down the chain of command. At some point we may learn a lot more about what he did and why directly from him. Think I will wait on a final opinion once I've heard all sides of the story.

And I'll not be baited into another military experience comparison. End of that story.

 

And I'm just teasing you. Buy yourself a sense of humor.

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, Gorka said:

 

And I'm just teasing you. Buy yourself a sense of humor.

Then next time "Smile when you say that Pilgrim".😁

[Gorka]

58 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Then next time "Smile when you say that Pilgrim".😁

That's no fun. I'd just rather keep you in suspense.

[Tour2ma]

On 4/4/2020 at 11:34 AM, calfoxwc said:

Section A:

• your book is wrong.
• Tour. I KNOW what I'm talking about. He blasted out unsecured ...how many memos? WTF?
• No excuse from me. It's good he took action - but he broke protocol for no good reason. What the reason is, who knows, but I suspect he has TDS. '

**************************************************************

Secton B:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/acting-navy-secretary-defends-firing-of-captain-who-warned-of-virus-outbreak-162877

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said Friday that his firing of the captain who raised the alarm about a coronavirus outbreak onboard a U.S. aircraft carrier was the "hardest thing that I've ever had to do."

**************************************************

Section 😄

I figure the commander panicked and acted way overboard. Too bad, he lost his command. His crew will be without him.

A: You may know of what you speak, but your bias is so strong that what you say can not be taken on face value, cal... and suspecting "TDS" does not help you make your case.

B: I have to wonder if your "Acting Secretary's resigning" the next day was harder... and the funny thing is he thought he was anticipating Trump's anger and of course your boy now says going to look at reinstating him... how embarrassing for him... and you.

C. Are Captain's in the Navy susceptible to panic? Would seem to me those prone to panicking would be weeded out earlier than that.
 

[Tour2ma]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:33 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

Buy yourself a sense of humor.

No way Gorka can afford that...

[Tour2ma]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:19 PM, DieHardBrownsFan said:

However, letting your enemies know that one aircraft carrier is now not operational could cause harm to the country.  

Only until it no longer can...

Lockstep with you on the rest of the post, Homie... but given we are, and were, at DEFCON Alert Level 5... I ain't losing any sleep.

https://www.defconlevel.com/current-level.php

[DieHardBrownsFan]

28 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Only until it no longer can...

Lockstep with you on the rest of the post, Homie... but given we are, and were, at DEFCON Alert Level 5... I ain't losing any sleep.

https://www.defconlevel.com/current-level.php

That may or may not be the true 'defcon' level.  But the Captain of a ship should never broadcast any weakness.  

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

That may or may not be the true 'defcon' level.  But the Captain of a ship should never broadcast any weakness.  

I'll concede the general point... but does nothing mitigate the "never"? Ever?

What if he had tried "proper channels" one or more times and found his brass unresponsive, or worse in denial?

What is his recourse? Ask again?

[calfoxwc]

what if?

TDS is in conspiracy mode bigtime.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll concede the general point... but does nothing mitigate the "never"? Ever?

What if he had tried "proper channels" one or more times and found his brass unresponsive, or worse in denial?

What is his recourse? Ask again?

Broadcast to the outside where a weakness is found is forbidden, period.  Ships have many secure lines of communication open that he could have used.  He choose unsecure email that was leaked to a San Francisco area News org.  

[TexasAg1969]

Well stay tuned. The NYT published an article this morning that those in charge of the investigation are seriously considering reinstating Capt. Crozier to his command of the Roosevelt. So I still would not jump to any conclusions one way or another until this fully plays out, but it does tell me there was more than meets the eye up and down the chain of command. And now in light of hundreds aboard that ship positive for COVID-19 with one death, maybe he actually had a better handle on it than anyone else.

Ironically it looks like it got aboard ship in a well planned in advance docking in Da Nang, Vietnam in cooperation with the Vietnamese government to show we are on their side against an increasing naval Chinese encroachment of Vietnamese waters.

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well stay tuned. The NYT published an article this morning that those in charge of the investigation are seriously considering reinstating Capt. Crozier to his command of the Roosevelt.

*****************************************

Wait...DUDE,.... those in charge of the investigators are military and cannot overrule the PResident - he is COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the Armed Forces. That is for the folks who have never been in the military and might not know.

*****************************************

So I still would not jump to any conclusions one way or another until this fully plays out, but it does tell me there was more than meets the eye up and down the chain of command. And now in light of hundreds aboard that ship positive for COVID-19 with one death, maybe he actually had a better handle on it than anyone else.

********************************************

     Still, the logistics are what he didn't know. There were only so many beds available on Guam, dude. If I read it right - he wanted EVERY SAILOR off the ship. That is logistically impossible - unless they all infected the entire base at Guam. They were getting some of them off- but the Captain ...panicked? and wanted everybody off the ship, to quarantine the sick ones ?

That would have been a disaster. The Captain's motivations were sincere, but his actions were a violation of the UCMJ... and I think if CHINA AND THE WHO HAD NOT LIED TO THE WORLD -they would not have stopped over in Vietnam. Just what I think.

Ironically it looks like it got aboard ship in a well planned in advance docking in Da Nang, Vietnam in cooperation with the Vietnamese government to show we are on their side against an increasing naval Chinese encroachment of Vietnamese waters.

   There may be "more to the story" I'm sure. Maybe we'll find out eventually - but his actions are still a violation, regardless.

 

[TexasAg1969]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

I think I will leave it up to the investigators to sort out. And whatever they decide I expect Trump to support since he is the one who fired the Sec. of the Navy over his criticism of the Captain.

[Axe]

He'll be reinstated.

[Tour2ma]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:51 AM, Axe said:

He'll be reinstated.

Gonna call you "The Prophet"...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-recommends-reinstating-captain-of-coronavirus-stricken-aircraft-carrier/ar-BB139TKQ?ocid=spartandhp

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Gonna call you "The Prophet"...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-recommends-reinstating-captain-of-coronavirus-stricken-aircraft-carrier/ar-BB139TKQ?ocid=spartandhp

This shows the true disaray the armed forces are in with Trump as CIC.  Can't wait until Biden takes over in January.

[Tour2ma]

Quote

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy's top officials recommended Friday that the captain relieved of duty after sounding the alarms of a growing coronavirus outbreak aboard an aircraft carrier should be reinstated.

The decision to reinstate Navy Capt. Brett Crozier's command of the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt sits with Secretary of Defense Mark Esper. The Pentagon boss, who was briefed on the recommendations following a U.S. Navy investigation, has yet to sign off on the reinstatement of the captain. He is expected to make a decision Friday.

Stay tuned...