No one talking about the targeting hit on mayfield?

[gumby73]

14 hours ago, Flugel said:

IMO the most disturbing part of it all is that despite the official closest to the hit throwing his flag - the referee over-ruling him and waiving it off started that play positioned in our backfield 5-7 yards behind Baker and didn't move downfield until after Baker crossed the LOS.  Not only that, when Baker crossed from 1 side of the field to the other - the Referee that is trailing the action looks for blocks in the back and holding on all the pursuit also crossing from 1 side to the other.  In other words, there were a lot of obstructions and distractions for the Ref to see through in order to have a superior view that would enable him to waive off the flag.

ya know, the more i watch this play sadly, Baker should have blown up like a fake soccer player called Ben Brady..Instead, in his anger he sprung to his feet..FLipping ball 1st to official.Than sharing some words with Whitehead..Do you know if The trailing official you watched is the ref Bake tosses ball to? Ya never know how a ref will react to that. Now I think that the refs saw no injury risk (waiving off player safety) was done on hit, so refs ate that flag calling him a slide feet 1st runner imo due to Baker's reaction.(lesson learned?).which is the way wrong way to handle that call..thanks...nonetheless that Had to be a great 2nd half to watch live   

[Ghoolie]

5 hours ago, nickers said:

It's not the refs.. Its Fawking GOD'ell who is systematically ruining the integrity of the NFL itself.. And the way the game is , and should be played.... He is taking the honor and dynamics of the game and turning into a free for all money grab for the owners and for the players and fleecing the fans at the same time... The problem is simply because the NFL is kind of like an in house monopoly.. With no real competition for TV and concession revenue.... It's simply become a farce of what it started out from...

I have no argument with this. Godell is a piece of schidt. His lack of spine and moral compass has greatly diminished the league. He has allowed thug culture to prevail.

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

The ref actually said “a runner is allowed to be hit in the head” 

Is that true?! 

Yes and no...

Not all contact to the head has been outlawed... although in Preseason it seemed that it had been.

The keys are the position of the tacklers' helmet and whether a lowered helmet intiates the contact to the "head or neck area" of the player being tackled.

If the tackler both lowers his head and then the crown (or brow) of his helmet strikes his "target's" helmet first , then that is "targeting" and should be flagged with the possibility of ejection.

In this case Baker was clearly targeted.

The problem in the NFL is that calls are not "booth" reviewed in real time as they are in college.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

18 hours ago, Flugel said:

With all due respect, I don't think we should keep rolling with it.  The glass chin they keep shattering is knocking us out more so than our opponents are able to.  If that's not a problem worth fighting - we're all wasting serious time following this league.   The league seems to care more about pleasing customers in England and Mexico City than long time fans/customers like us and player safety of our 1st overall investment.  Somebody at the top of our organization needs to show us he has 2 testicles here with a video collage of specific examples the refs boning us up the asss without the vaseline. 

I just don’t see the point. As fans, there is nothing we can do.

fans of other teams hearing us complain probably just think we’re crazy/dumb fans. Until this team is good enough to overcome bad calls, it’s gonna be the same blaming the officials for the 1 or 2 terrible calls a game. As a fan, as long as the team scored on that drive, which they did, I don’t care. Baker can take a hit.

[Mark O]

2 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I just don’t see the point. As fans, there is nothing we can do.

fans of other teams hearing us complain probably just think we’re crazy/dumb fans. Until this team is good enough to overcome bad calls, it’s gonna be the same blaming the officials for the 1 or 2 terrible calls a game. As a fan, as long as the team scored on that drive, which they did, I don’t care. Baker can take a hit.

There isn't anything we can do about it, not really much the team can do about it either at least in season.    As someone who watches a lot of games every Sunday (and Monday and Thursday), there's rotten calls in every game.  Every team can say the same thing we do nearly every week.    And you're right..we just aren't good enough as a team (Yet) to overcome some of the bad calls we get.  

[jrb12711]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Yes and no...

Not all contact to the head has been outlawed... although in Preseason it seemed that it had been.

The keys are the position of the tacklers' helmet and whether a lowered helmet intiates the contact to the "head or neck area" of the player being tackled.

If the tackler both lowers his head and then the crown (or brow) of his helmet strikes his "target's" helmet first , then that is "targeting" and should be flagged with the possibility of ejection.

In this case Baker was clearly targeted.

The problem in the NFL is that calls are not "booth" reviewed in real time as they are in college.

For sure-if they are taking this crap seriously, they need to move to the college model. Keep the flag no matter what and have it auto reviewed. Seems like a fair compromise and this crap wouldn't have happened in the 1st place.

To think they threw the flag on this play and picked it back up is unconscionable. There's no way this can keep happening to this organization week after week in critical moments. To the crowd, is there a reason Haslam and the gang isn't asking filing some sort of grievance here? I know bad calls happen all the time, but this literally the 3rd week in a row our highlights have included the phrase "and the worst reffing error you'll see is here". What's it going to take to actually feel like the refs aren't actively looking to bone the team?

[jcam222]

My biggest takeway from the video is that Hochuli finally  quit juicing

[gumby73]

5 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

As a fan, as long as the team scored on that drive, which they did, I don’t care. Baker can take a hit.

That's not true. We did not score & why I hated the call after the game..Landry score was on the following drive..After Baker gets whacked with no flag,he hits Nojoke,than Bake hits Landry to 2 yard line on a 1st & 11.one incomplete,Chubb gets to 1 yard line than on 4th& goal Baker gets stuffed giving ball back to TB..That extra 15 yards with Bake juiced over hit,could lead to a different ending before us forcing OT..just under 8 mins left at that point flag gets pick-up.. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

32 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

That's not true. We did not score & why I hated the call after the game..That extra 15 yards with Bake juiced over hit,could lead to a different ending before us forcing OT..just under 8 mins left at that point flag gets pick-up.. 

You’re right, I don’t take the time to double check everything in that sense, my bad.

anyways, after more thought, the rule for targeting needs to be changed and it NEEDS to be reviewable, like it is in college.  That wasn’t right, even if Baker can handle it.

Terrible officiating, maybe if Baker just layed there on the ground in stead of getting in the dirty players face, they wouldn’t have picked it up LOL

[Mark O]

44 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

That's not true. We did not score & why I hated the call after the game..Landry score was on the following drive..After Baker gets whacked with no flag,he hits Nojoke,than Bake hits Landry to 2 yard line on a 1st & 11.one incomplete,Chubb gets to 1 yard line than on 4th& goal Baker gets stuffed giving ball back to TB..That extra 15 yards with Bake juiced over hit,could lead to a different ending before us forcing OT..just under 8 mins left at that point flag gets pick-up.. 

True we didn't score on that drive but I don't see how it really affected the outcome of the game.   We didn't score on 4th down.  The defense held and we got the ball in great field position (thanks to the Peppers return) and scored to tie up the game.

It was a terrible call and a flag that should never have been picked up but I don't think it changed the outcome of the game.

 

 

[gumby73]

22 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

You’re right, I don’t take the time to double check everything in that sense, my bad.

anyways, after more thought, the rule for targeting needs to be changed and it NEEDS to be reviewable, like it is in college.  That wasn’t right, even if Baker can handle it.

Terrible officiating, maybe if Baker just layed there on the ground in stead of getting in the dirty players face, they wouldn’t have picked it up LOL

nothing bad,you were at the game..Like myself, at games all the plays kinda run together,i get it..with the 15 yard penalty Nojuku scores easily, Landry getting to 2 yard line never happens.but who knows what's called than.With Hoc-u-zleese picking up the flag like it never happened,Hue was told Baker as a runner or targeting neither were reviewable..This is the crap that needs fixed, not the games in question of being fixxed.. 

[ATOM]

don't fines and apologizes come out tommorow

[WarriorsRpussies]

On 10/22/2018 at 3:29 PM, Mark O said:

The calls are pretty atrocious across the board in all games.  Dallas got totally hosed on the game tying FG attempt on a terrible call.  At least this time, not calling the false start helped us because we got a sack on the play.

It's the worst it's ever been. I thought when all the old refs retired this off-season it would get better, boy was soooooooo I wrong. Calls always go against the Browns and to be honest the last two years I didn't care because we sucked that bad and would have lost all those games regardless. It's different this year cause we been in every game except the Chargers game. To see all the pussy- butt roughing the passer calls though half a season, and then have our FQB take a helmet to helmet and these fags eat their whistles infuriates me to no end.

[WarriorsRpussies]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:10 PM, LondonBrown said:

The ref actually said “a runner is allowed to be hit in the head” 

Is that true?! 

God No! thats the problem

[jrb12711]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25066168/nfl-knows-hit-browns-baker-mayfield-flagged

Another week, another "we're sorry we messed up" from the NFL leading the airwaves against the Browns. You guys realize I've copied an pasted this link (with different scenarios) 4 times now right?

Haslam and the Browns organization needs to file a formal inquiry into why this keeps happening, at this level, to the team. If anything, that would send a clear message that they can't keep messing this up and expect no repercussions.

[Unsympathetic]

Those refs had better get heckled vs the Chiefs on 11/4.

[jiggins7919]

11 hours ago, WarriorsRpussies said:

God No! thats the problem

I almost choked on my pretzels when he said that.  He literally said he's ALLOWED to be hit in the head.  I was stunned, and I'm still stunned.  

It probably didn't cost us the game or anything, as this was the drive we got down to the 1 yard line and choked.  I wish someone could explain to me why we don't run the ball on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th there with a running back.  Obviously there's no kind of guarantee you're going to run it in, but what are the chances a defense can stop a RB 3 straight times?  If we run it 3 times and get stuffed, I wouldn't say a darn thing.  I'd tip my cap to the Bucs.  But that 2nd down pass play was TERRIBLE.  Njoku somehow fell down (I'm sure it wasn't defensive holding, noooo way), and I don't like the 4th down play with Baker.  

[FriendOfBernieKosar]

Hey guys, long time Buccaneers fan here. When I watched that play, I was confused too. I think the referees fixated on the sliding of the quarterback coming late and completely missed the helmet to helmet contact. Should of been a flag for that for sure though, quarterback, running back, makes no difference. All the best with Pittsburgh on Sunday.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25066168/nfl-knows-hit-browns-baker-mayfield-flagged

Another week, another "we're sorry we messed up" from the NFL leading the airwaves against the Browns. You guys realize I've copied an pasted this link (with different scenarios) 4 times now right?

Haslam and the Browns organization needs to file a formal inquiry into why this keeps happening, at this level, to the team. If anything, that would send a clear message that they can't keep messing this up and expect no repercussions.

Yeah after watching that video, it was (yet again) another blown call by the refs that went against the Browns. Not like there weren't a couple others in that game. 

Can we get a make up no call this week? Garrett goes Turkey Jones on Ben, and we missed it?

[Clevfan4life]

I was not aware that if Baker was a RB in that situation, that the hit would still have been illegal. These new contact rules are utterly flummoxing. I stand by my earlier assessment, I don't like where the NFL is now. These rules are bullsht. But if the rule IS in place, then why they keep "missing" them against the Browns is certainly aggravating given we saw Myles latch on to Ben and drag him down instead of flopping ontop him, and get flagged. NFL may be becoming unwatcheable soon. 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

I was not aware that if Baker was a RB in that situation, that the hit would still have been illegal. These new contact rules are utterly flummoxing. I stand by my earlier assessment, I don't like where the NFL is now. These rules are bullsht. But if the rule IS in place, then why they keep "missing" them against the Browns is certainly aggravating given we saw Myles latch on to Ben and drag him down instead of flopping ontop him, and get flagged. NFL may be becoming unwatcheable soon. 

If you watch the video I posted on page 1 of this thread, not only is a rule in place but it can even be called on the offensive player for leading with his helmet and initiating contact and then making contact.   There needs to be all 3, lowering of the helmet, initiating the contact, and then making contact using and leading with the helmet.

No clue how all 7 officials on the field missed this or didn't see it or correct it to make sure the rule was being enforced correctly but they all did.   Just another in an amazingly long line of bad calls in every game.

[Tour2ma]

There's nothing wrong with the targeting rule. It protects the targeter as much as it does the targetee.

It's the enforcement process that sucks.

Just as "observers" can call down for a player to be examined for a concussion, so should they be able to call down for review of a hit. And then, as with calls actually made on the field, the review should be thru the video process.

34 minutes ago, Mark O said:

... it can even be called on the offensive player for leading with his helmet and initiating contact and then making contact.

Bingo... but since preseason I've not seen it called on an offensive player. IIRC there was an "emphasis change" that came out of the last owners' meeting just before the season started.

[The Gipper]

When has this "targeting rule" EVER been called on an offensive player.  I have never seen it....ever.

And remember this:

We loved that play....but without doubt it should, under these new rules, be called a penalty...but I suspect that it would not be.

[Mark O]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

When has this "targeting rule" EVER been called on an offensive player.  I have never seen it....ever.

And remember this:

We loved that play....but without doubt it should, under these new rules, be called a penalty...but I suspect that it would not be.

According to the video that I posted, it absolutely should be called a penalty under the rules as they are written now.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, Mark O said:

According to the video that I posted, it absolutely should be called a penalty under the rules as they are written now.

Yes, I understand that......but WOULD it be?

Do you (or anyone else) have any video of any play where an offensive player was called under these new rules?

Maybe only something as egregious as this play by TR would have gotten a call.

[beare]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-admits-blow-baker-mayfields-head-drawn-flag-042728712.html

[BrownPile]

Honestly, not the way I saw it.

Defender did what he was coached to do.  Mayfield was upright, trying for first down when defender 'launches' his body at what-would-have-been his chest.  Not trying to tackle, but create a collision impact.

Only, Mayfield starts to slide and defender - already being in mid-air - hits him helmet to helmet.

Didn't look like he intended to hit him high and in the helmet.

It's the result of coaching the value of hitting over tackling.

[jrb12711]

4 hours ago, BrownPile said:

Honestly, not the way I saw it.

Defender did what he was coached to do.  Mayfield was upright, trying for first down when defender 'launches' his body at what-would-have-been his chest.  Not trying to tackle, but create a collision impact.

Only, Mayfield starts to slide and defender - already being in mid-air - hits him helmet to helmet.

Didn't look like he intended to hit him high and in the helmet.

It's the result of coaching the value of hitting over tackling.

Sure, I mean there's a debate to be had about the spirit of the rule and I don't think (most) would say this is wrong. But that doesn't negate by NFL rules this is a blatant penalty 100 times out of 100. Intent or not, it's a flag that they threw and then picked up. Can't happen.

[jiggins7919]

On 10/23/2018 at 12:55 PM, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I just don’t see the point. As fans, there is nothing we can do.

fans of other teams hearing us complain probably just think we’re crazy/dumb fans. Until this team is good enough to overcome bad calls, it’s gonna be the same blaming the officials for the 1 or 2 terrible calls a game. As a fan, as long as the team scored on that drive, which they did, I don’t care. Baker can take a hit.

It's like Baker said yesterday, the team HAS to get more points and put themselves in better position so that a call here and there doesn't impact the game so much.  Obviously easier said than DONE, but he's right.  We're the only team in the league that hasn't scored a TD in the first quarter.  We only have FIVE RED ZONE TRIPS in the first quarter through 7 games.  I've literally NEVER seen anything like it, except for maybe last year, and that's a standard we don't want to be mentioned with.  

[jiggins7919]

28 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Sure, I mean there's a debate to be had about the spirit of the rule and I don't think (most) would say this is wrong. But that doesn't negate by NFL rules this is a blatant penalty 100 times out of 100. Intent or not, it's a flag that they threw and then picked up. Can't happen.

I think it's the picking up the flag that has so many people infuriated, more than anything.  It's one thing if a ref just blows the call.  Maybe his view is obstructed, perhaps the other guy wasn't in position, or the play appeared to be something it wasn't.  But to come in and pick UP the flag, that's just ridiculous.  This stat doesn't exist, but I'm willing to BET the Browns lead the league in "flags picked up by the refs".  What hurts the most, maybe, is that these calls seemingly ALWAYS get called against us, so to have one picked UP is so completely crazy.  I mean, that roughing the QB on Ogbah?!  Jesus man.  What about the game against Baltimore I think when we went for it on 4th down and Baker threw a long pass to Landry who wasn't there.  Landry wasn't THERE because he got absolutely leveled.  Not tangled up, not tripped, not accidentally taken down....he got TACKLED.  Even the announcers were going absolutely ballistic.  They called it uncatchable because the receiver wasn't in the area.  Well no kidding!  It's hard to be in the area when you get destroyed.  

I don't get it, I really don't.  We better get it figured out soon because the Steelers are just starting to get hot, like they ALWAYS DO, and they've got to be excited to see us.  Their defense is playing much better, they've won 2 in a row, and I think they lead the division.  Sadly, we could've been right up there with them, but we haven't made the plays.  Well, that and the Oakland ref screwed us.  This Pittsburgh game is probably the fork in the road for the season.  We win this, and the story could be positive for the next few weeks.  We lose, and it's going to be freaking ugly.  Fair or not, that's how it is.

Edit:  We basically won the Ravens game because of a phantom "block in the back" call the refs made against the Ravens, so I need to remember that the door CAN swing both ways, it just doesn't seem like it sometimes.  Ravens got screwed...big time.  But I really don't care, hehe.