dem lawmaker says the violent berkeley riots were " a beautiful sight"

[Clevfan4life]

see? You disagree with Osiris, his Muslim highness, and he won't ever let you be allowed

to get away with it, nosiree. The old dishonest liberals flock together thing. History repeats itself.

"yawn"

 

Like u flock together with ur old dishonest conservatives?

[calfoxwc]

we don't attack on cheapshot personal levels, and go after

one poster to antagonize him/her like a pack of weasels.....

[marcus]

Actually Marcus the example of the founding fathers and the colonies tends to support my position more than yours. That is if your position is people get together as a team to do whatever it is they do. We didn't come here for any of those slogan type of reasons. We're here for a long time before anybody decided that the richest 1% didn't want to send any more tax money to King George with which to fight the French. And then we didn't all get together to settle our differences to move forward in some grand and glorious union. What do we do? We killed as many of those who disagreed with us as we could. I would be shocked if any of them cared about religious freedom except for the fact it in England the churches were kind of a pain in the ass.

WSS

I'll admit my knowledge of that era is limited. Rest assured it's my newest research project. I guess when your knowledge base is what you learned in school probably not the era you lay the foundation of your debate on.

 

I think that division to some degree is what makes us individuals. However there are times to put pride away and unite for the good of all. It took unity to some degree to come this far. In some ways it took division too. For all I know maybe this is the next rallying point. A guy can dream.

[Westside Steve]

Well people do like to rewrite history. Usually the guy that wins the war gets to paint the losers as a bunch of animals who deserved to die.

 

But just basically as far as the colonists oh, the big bunch of religious people that fled the old country were the Puritans. That's certainly not a group that embraced religious freedom but a pretty strict bunch that were outcasts from the Catholic Church and the C of E.

Others were just starving in Europe and had the balls to take a chance on life in the New World. The major cities of Europe were filthy and overcrowded.

 

So the reasons for emmigration weren't much different than they seem to be today in many cases. Many were so desperate to leave the squalor and poverty of the old country that they sold their freedom for Passage.

 

I'm sure there were also a bunch of entrepreneurs looking to cash in on whatever natural resources were available.

 

The colonies had been up and running for a good long time before anyone realized they didn't really need King George and his taxes.

 

But there was a big contingent of loyalists as well.

And everyone knows how the founders dealt with them.

WSS

[Osiris]

Well people do like to rewrite history. Usually the guy that wins the war gets to paint the losers as a bunch of animals who deserved to die.

 

But just basically as far as the colonists oh, the big bunch of religious people that fled the old country were the Puritans. That's certainly not a group that embraced religious freedom but a pretty strict bunch that were outcasts from the Catholic Church and the C of E.

Others were just starving in Europe and had the balls to take a chance on life in the New World. The major cities of Europe were filthy and overcrowded.

 

So the reasons for emmigration weren't much different than they seem to be today in many cases. Many were so desperate to leave the squalor and poverty of the old country that they sold their freedom for Passage.

 

I'm sure there were also a bunch of entrepreneurs looking to cash in on whatever natural resources were available.

 

The colonies had been up and running for a good long time before anyone realized they didn't really need King George and his taxes.

 

But there was a big contingent of loyalists as well.

And everyone knows how the founders dealt with them.

WSS

 

 

I suppose to be honest, what the colonists were or weren't doesn't really matter all that much. What matters more is what the people who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights and fought for our independence wanted. It's pretty clear they wanted religious freedom but a government that was secular.

[Westside Steve]

 

 

I suppose to be honest, what the colonists were or weren't doesn't really matter all that much. What matters more is what the people who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights and fought for our independence wanted. It's pretty clear they wanted religious freedom but a government that was secular.

I'm not sure it's so clear but that's not the point. The point I was making was that during the Revolutionary War two sides didn't work together for a common goal which would be bringing this nation to fruition. It was the Colonials versus the loyalists and we had a big war and kill more of them.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

the colonists demanded to abolish the church of england, whereas

the Church was also the gov, where the king was the papal authority.

 

It wasn't to say that nobody in the gov is allowed to be religious, or

to vote how they believe.

 

Means the state is not allowed to be the church, the state cannot

establish a state church.

 

Of course the liberals want to make it mean they win when they aren't

religious, especially not Christian. They get to have everything their way.

 

That isn't the meaning behind "separation of church and state". Of course Christians..

Muslims, whoever, have every right to pray whenever they want to.