Kvoethe Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 _ + Tom Pelissero | USA TODAY Sports 5:36 p.m. ET Jan. 26, 2017 MOBILE, Ala. Standing in the press box during practice this week at the Senior Bowl, Phil Savage echoed what a lot of NFL scouts are saying privately about the quarterbacks available in the 2017 draft. It's probably not a good year to say, Weve got to have one,' " Savage, the Senior Bowl's executive director and former Cleveland Browns general manager, told USA TODAY Sports. You never know, but theres questions with more guys this year. Others describe the group as somewhere between average and not very good nothing like the deep class of 2016, which saw 15 quarterbacks drafted, including Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, picked first and second overall, respectively, and instant star Dak Prescott in the fourth round. Theres talent in every draft, and this is no exception. Its still early in the evaluation process, especially for underclassmen. Quarterbacks tend to get pushed up the board because the position is so important. But at a time when so many NFL teams are looking for a starter, theres a strong sense of trepidation about putting any of these guys on the field in the short term. That none of the quarterbacks who come up as first-round possibilities North Carolinas Mitch Trubisky, Clemsons Deshaun Watson, Notre Dames DeShone Kizer and maybe Texas Techs Patrick Mahomes played in anything resembling a pro-style offense or operated much from under center is certainly a factor. (Thats one reason many teams preferred Wentz to Goff last year.) It goes beyond that, though. Conversations with scouts and personnel executives here pegged Trubisky as the top QB entering the draft process. Hes an accurate passer, has the physical tools and figures to put on a show at the scouting combine in March. But some scouts will be reluctant to put a really high grade on a guy who made just 13 college starts, sitting most of his first two years behind a non-prospect, Marquise Williams Watson has the track record and the makeup. He recovered from a disappointing first half of his junior season in 2016, capping it by wrecking Alabama in the national championship game. His accuracy is a question, though, as is durability given his body type. His mechanics need to be cleaned up. Declining his invite to the Senior Bowl Watson graduated early, making him eligible he passed on a chance to show he can fit and function in a different scheme. Some scouts draw the line there on first rounders, though Kizer certainly has the arm and athletic skills to join them. He looked like the No. 1 pick in the Irish's opener at Texas, only to end up getting benched along the way to a 4-8 finish. He will face questions about his intangibles, including how badly he wants to be a great player. Of the next group, Mahomes jumps out because he has loads of talent and improvisational ability. He also played in a one-read-and-go offense, so everyones trying to figure out how it will translate. None of the quarterbacks invited to the Senior Bowl the traditional six instead of the eight Savage invited last year because that was such a strong class is a lock to go in the first two rounds. Pittsburghs Nate Peterman, who has played in a pro-style offense, may be the best of the bunch. The outlook on this class may boost the value of young passers who could become available in free agency or trades (Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garoppolo, Tyrod Taylor, Mike Glennon). A short-term option (Jay Cutler, Tony Romo) also may appeal to a team already eyeing a 2018 draft class that could include the likes of USCs Sam Darnold and UCLAs Josh Rosen. Bottom line for the 2017 group: If you draft one, you better be prepared to wait and work. Of course, Prescott he performed well at last years Senior Bowl, as did Wentz is proof that development can accelerate quickly with the right coaches and pieces in place. Even the Dallas Cowboys didnt know what they had when they took Prescott after failed attempts to get into position to select Paxton Lynch and Connor Cook. Its a work-in-progress quarterback class, Savage said. I think its probably just OK. That doesnt mean that you cant find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Seems pretty much a common held belief now. And that's why we won't take a QB in the first round. That and having Kessler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Shocking revelation! I hopped off the Kizer train last nite... even at #33. Dude winds up almost as bad as Wheezy did. So I'm going to have to go deeper into the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I'd give anything to know what our plan is right now. Like, what is Hue Jackson's "best case scenario"? My guess is Garoppolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Pats want a 1st and another relatively high pick. For a second round pick who's played 3 games and has a year on his contract...ok then. I'll pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 "Heresy---------All Heresy!!"-The Gipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Pats want a 1st and another relatively high pick. Asking ain't getting... There must be a franchise QB in this draft that people are over looking. Russell Wilson was passed over. More than likely there is. May well be Trubs... may be Kelly... may be Dobbs... or ??? Few drafts go by without at least one emerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Mahomes will be in the league a long time because of his ability to throw the ball deep and on the run. Look for the 49ers to take him at the top of the second round maybe, he could be great in Kyle Shanahan's bootleg/rollout heavy system. Carlos Hyde leading the running game isn't terrible. Maybe they look at trading down, picking up an OL in the 8-12 range - Cam Robinson? Ryan Ramczyzkzzyzyzk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Seems pretty much a common held belief now. And that's why we won't take a QB in the first round. That and having Kessler. London, go look up Savage's draft record when he was GM of the Browns and you'll understand why Ghoolie calls him "Sewage". 2 decent picks, no brainier Joe Thomas, and Deqwell Jackson. Drafting Bums like Butterfingers Braylon, Quinn, trading with the Ravens taking Wimbley instead of Ngata- easy to understand why he's out of the NFL. His opinion don't mean crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 "Heresy---------All Heresy!!"-The Gipper No, its just that the only negative they have to say about Trubisky is "he didn't have that many starts". And that's it. And, for a guy like you that was not around for the Savage years, lets face it.....whatever he says....your best plan is to do the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 London, go look up Savage's draft record when he was GM of the Browns and you'll understand why Ghoolie calls him "Sewage". 2 decent picks, no brainier Joe Thomas, and Deqwell Jackson. Drafting Bums like Butterfingers Braylon, Quinn, trading with the Ravens taking Wimbley instead of Ngata- easy to understand why he's out of the NFL. His opinion don't mean crap. Really, just JT. To quote Zombo D'Qwell was "soft", even though he had "production" i.e. made a lot of tackles simply by being a MLB , they were invariably 5 yards down the field. and he was constantly out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 If theres a qb at 12 that hue likes, fine. But not the #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Shocking revelation! I hopped off the Kizer train last nite... even at #33. Dude winds up almost as bad as Wheezy did. So I'm going to have to go deeper into the class. Never saw his windup being THAT bad. Something happen over the course of the season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Yup, and the so called experts will be oohing and aahing on draft day over QBs and every other position who will be busts. Never fails. Eric Fisher was a cant miss Left Tackle who has been a disappointment in KC. Well, just go down the draft list of every first round in the last 15 years. You will likely see at least 1/3rd to 1/2 of them be considered busts. No matter what the position. Its just that with the Browns it has been more like 80%. We have had busted QBs, RBs, OCs, DBs, LBs, DTs, WRs The ONLY guys the Browns have drafted that perhaps no one considers a bust since 1999 are Faine, Mack, Thomas, Haden, and likely Shelton. That is 5 out of 21 1st round picks that were NOT busts. Let me rephrase: 16 out of 21 first round picks by the Browns since 1999 can be considered Busts!!! Or over 76% of our picks (well, Corey Coleman is included...to early on him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 And check out this list, these players by some standard can be considered the biggest bust drafted in round 1 since 2007: 1. AJ Jenkins WR 49ers 2. Marcus Smith LB Eagles 3. Derrick Sherod OT Packers 4. Dion Jordan DE Miami 5. Jonathan Baldwin WR KC 6. Darqueze Denard DB Bengals 7. Justin Gilbert DB Browns 8. Aaron Maybin DE Bills 9. Dave Wilson RB NYG 10. John P. Manziel QB Browns What does this tell us? First...that the Browns 2014 may go down as one of the epic bad drafts in history. Also....that it isn't just QBs that bust. DEs and LBs are in here too. Who are the 10 Best 1st round draft picks since 2007?: 1. Matt Ryan QB Falcons 2. Patrick Willis LB 49ers 3. Darrelle Revis DB Jets 4. Adrian Peterson RB Vikings 5. Cam Newton QB Panthers 6. JJ Watt DL Texans 7. Joe Thomas OT Browns 8. Joe Flacco QB Ravens 9. Calvin Johnson WR Lions 10. Matt Stafford QB Lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Never saw his windup being THAT bad. Something happen over the course of the season ? OK... I exagerated a lil' bit, but Kizer was routinely dropping the ball from mid-chest to belt level before coming back and up to throwing position. I do need to follow my own advice though and look at some 2015 tape to see if it was thee then as well. That's one thing I will give the Trub-crowd... Mitchy has a very compact motion. From mid-chest straight up and back to slightly behind his right shoulder. Eric Fisher was a cant miss Left Tackle who has been a disappointment in KC. ... but has salvaged his career by attaining mediocrity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 After the Browns passed on drafting ...Wentz last draft, it's tough to see them drafting Trubisky that high, unless the needs are far fewer and they have players throughout the rest of the draft that they have their eyes on, and can take the chance this draft. Anything can go on this draft - it's going to be amazing to watch it unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 I just... I wonder if anyone actually looked at the Colts roster. He took them to the playoffs as a rookie with that. Actually he did it sans Hilton. Re: Trub. a good portion of his perceived armed strength lies with his throwing motion which I remember being pretty compact. I'll have to give Kizer a second look. At this point Mitch is becoming the only QB I want to see in the first 2 rounds. I can't get on board with Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Trent Richardson is another bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 The more i think about it the more going with a mahomes/webb pick in round 2 and starting next year with kessler as the QB is the safest bet. I don't know if there is any really day 1 talent type players in this draft. If we don't sign a vet QB or Trade for one I could see Kessler starting the year as QB1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 After the Browns passed on drafting ...Wentz last draft, it's tough to see them drafting Trubisky that high, unless the needs are far fewer and they have players throughout the rest of the draft that they have their eyes on, and can take the chance this draft. Anything can go on this draft - it's going to be amazing to watch it unfold. As Hue said at the Senior Bowl- everything is on the table. The more i think about it the more going with a mahomes/webb pick in round 2 and starting next year with kessler as the QB is the safest bet. I don't know if there is any really day 1 talent type players in this draft. If we don't sign a vet QB or Trade for one I could see Kessler starting the year as QB1. I assume you meant QB. Garrett is a lock day one starter wherever he goes. Right now, It's Mitch or pass on day one. Mahomes may not last till day 2, and he's not a top 10 pick. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 i have a feeling mitch is going to come in undersized at the combine with an average athletic score. That being said he still is the most pro ready qb right now which is fine. i just think we need to focus on getting the D fixed up add a new solving the C situation an grabbing Webb/Mahomes in round 2-3. My preference is webb as his arm is the best in class and he has the prototypical size you want. I still attest that Kessler played very well for his rookie year and if he can improve his arm velocity and most importantly his throwing base in the offseason aswell as hitting the weightroom to add some strength/athleticism he can be the franchise guy. Guys like Webb have the physical advantage he wont have though.Garrett at 1 and hope for foster or a top flight DB/S at 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 i have a feeling mitch is going to come in undersized at the combine with an average athletic score. That being said he still is the most pro ready qb right now which is fine. i just think we need to focus on getting the D fixed up add a new solving the C situation an grabbing Webb/Mahomes in round 2-3. My preference is webb as his arm is the best in class and he has the prototypical size you want. I still attest that Kessler played very well for his rookie year and if he can improve his arm velocity and most importantly his throwing base in the offseason aswell as hitting the weightroom to add some strength/athleticism he can be the franchise guy. Guys like Webb have the physical advantage he wont have though. Garrett at 1 and hope for foster or a top flight DB/S at 12 I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 I think the browns are going to try and do what they can to fix the QB spot but they are not going to force it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 No, its just that the only negative they have to say about Trubisky is "he didn't have that many starts". And that's it. That's pretty much my biggest/only worry with Trubisky about this 1st overall pick. This collaterally envelopes reading progressions against much more complicated defenses ahead (ie; going from reading Wake Forest to New England). Trubisky has some great qualities I already specified some 6-8 weeks ago when I said I understood why you liked him. He's not being ranked as the #1 QB by accident in various places. I DO like the kid but that doesn't mean I shouldn't nit-pick at #1. Saying I see him as equitable to Derek Carr is not an insult at all. Derek Carr would be the top ranked QB of this class while he was a 2nd round QB in his class. We have about 3 months to decide on which pick of the litter we like best so why hurry into 1 corner? When Cardale Jones was only 3 starts old - he looked a lot more intriguing for NFL teams than he did when he played his way back into a backup role the next season. The "Fail for Cardale" parade never reached the 2nd block. I've watched a lot of film of Garrett in the last week and I'm not joining the hype. Yes, when he's not being blocked - he can close on a QB or make TFLs for a loss in a hurry. And he'll test like Courtney Brown and Mike Mamula at the Underwear Olympics in Indy. In the NFL, he'll face Left Tackles and get chipped constantly. War is a huge Aggies fan that recently posted he'd like us to draft Foster 1st. Allen isn't as "Big Sexy" with the sacks in an unselfish role in team defense on one of the highest rated defenses ever in college football. A lot of his teammates are going to be drafted in the first 2-3 rounds. What I like about him is he's flexible enough to play any technique exceptionally well while maintaining a pad height for superior leverage in the trench wars. Best of all, his head is always up so he finds the football and makes the tackle at first contact. He's a more compact version of Richard Seymour, who came in handy back when NE had so many injuries up front that BB had to switch for a 43 to a 34. Right now, Allen or Foster is my favorite pick at #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 No, its just that the only negative they have to say about Trubisky is "he didn't have that many starts". And that's it. And, for a guy like you that was not around for the Savage years, lets face it.....whatever he says....your best plan is to do the opposite. Yeah, who would figure that the amount of starts a college QB had would be such a huge bugaboo for teams considering on drafting them? I mean, its not like they're being drafted with the goal of playing QB in the NFL full time or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier. I'm not in love with what I've seen on film from Garrett; and I'm afraid most of it will get written off to the ankle injury. Just to illustrate how far away from the draft we are, he lasted less than 1 week on my wish list at #1 overall. Not only that, I haven't seen enough of Nate Orchard (IR in 2016) to totally write him off just yet. Hopefully, Gregg Williams will have a better place for him than Horton seemed to envision. As I just wrote to the other visitor (Gips) I had here in Nashville last October, the only question I have about Trubisky is the body of work (not to be confused with the body of the player). Love the build, arm strength and the elusiveness it equips him with behind a suspect protection upfront. If for some reason he is slightly under 6'2" - Warren Moon was only 6' like Brees while Russell Wilson is 5'11". Another guy that made Pro Bowls for 3 different play off teams (Garcia) was only 6' as well. He'll be ite. When Oakland drafted Derek Carr near the top of round 2, they protected the investment by improving their offensive line and later adding WR Amari Cooper in round 1 as well as former 1st round WR Michael Crabtree via free agency. They also drafted Khalil Mack in round 1 to improve their edge rush the same year they took Carr in round 2. We could have drafted both guys in that 2014 draft. We can do something similar to what Oakland did, with our choice being edge rusher #1 and QB at #12 vrs QB #1 and edge rusher at #12. Since the draft seems deeper at edge rusher than QB, it encourages me to keep more of an open mind about Trubisky at #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 When Cardale Jones was only 3 starts old - he looked a lot more intriguing for NFL teams than he did when he played his way back into a backup role the next season. The "Fail for Cardale" parade never reached the 2nd block. I've watched a lot of film of Garrett in the last week and I'm not joining the hype. Yes, when he's not being blocked - he can close on a QB or make TFLs for a loss in a hurry. And he'll test like Courtney Brown and Mike Mamula at the Underwear Olympics in Indy. In the NFL, he'll face Left Tackles and get chipped constantly. War is a huge Aggies fan that recently posted he'd like us to draft Foster 1st. Allen isn't as "Big Sexy" with the sacks in an unselfish role in team defense on one of the highest rated defenses ever in college football. First... thank God Shotgun did not declare a year earlier as he should have. Had he "Fail for Cardale" chants would still be echoing around Public Square... We are very close on Trubs... see the tools; question the resume. I do still agree that Allen is the safer, the higher floor pick, but I am evermore drawn to Garrett's ceiling. I am very curious to see what his bench rep count is at the "Underwear Olympics" (I loved that one...) to see what arm strength level he has been operating at. I feel I already know his lower body is of no concern. Like you, I suspect, I am not seeing a great deal of PassRush tech displayed, or at least not a wide variety of moves, but I see tech continually in his RunD. Where you see him "tied up", I often see him stacking the OT honoring run first. I discussed the assignment aspect of my view with a couple of our resident Ags back in season. Much as you describe Allen's unselfish play, I saw (see) the same in Myles' tape... him filling assignments and not free-lancing. Could he shed his stacks better? Yes... thus my upper body strength question. If he posts 25+ reps, my concern will grow. If he posts 20 or less, not so much as he has a "can add mass" look. Pass rush tech? Would love to see even more than I have, but as is often the case with superior athletes, and that Myles is one is undeniable, they tend to rely on their superiority. But he already has the most difficult tech in his arsenal: the speed-rush's, deep-dip when turning the corner... and I have seen it start with a quick rip to keep the OT's outside arm up and away from him. One thing we all have to bear in mind when evaluating, and perhaps drafting, an Edge rusher is that even the best fail to deliver far more than they succeed. And I am including hurries in that generalized tally. As for his getting chipped... while I agree it will happen, I do not see that as a negative. If teams have to game plan help for who should be their best PassPro OL, then that's a win before we take the field. Just as it is for HOU when Watt plays... or DNV for Miller... or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 I dont know what you guys think, but I am not impressed with Andy Luck. True, he had a tough act to follow, but he hasnt lived up to the hype. I've been thinking on and off about Luck for a while now. Here's my take... I think Luck did live up to the hype as a rookie. Even seen as the prospect of the decade, he really took the league by storm as a rookie. There was always that proviso tagged on... "as a rookie." As in, "Sure he threw 18 INTs, but he was a rookie and led his team to 11 wins." And in year 2 he improved cutting his INTs in half while increasing both his completion rate and his TD count. The wins did not rise, but "that was the team letting him down. They were not as explosive as they've been." Year 3 brought his TD explosion in a third 11-win season. "Sure his INTs popped as well, but he was carrying the team." Year 4? Injury limits him to 7 games, but when he played it was a total regression to his rookie stats... "but the team sucked." 5? Recovery... but still not back to his peak, 3rd season showing... "but the team still sucks." Bottom line: Luck regressed... for whatever reasons, he regressed. And he came out as the prospect who was going to, and early on did, improve year after year after year... until he did not. So I think he did satisfy "the hype(d)" up expectations initially. He simply has not followed through and sustained let alone continued to raise his own "bar" five years running. I'd still take him... I think the browns are going to try and do what they can to fix the QB spot but they are not going to force it. And that is the key... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 There must be a franchise QB in this draft that people are over looking. Not necessarily... Few drafts go by without at least one emerging. Every few....to be exact.... 5 times in the last 15 drafts there have been zero franchise qb's....which is once every 3 drafts.....33%.....once every few.... 2013-10-7-6-2.....plus a few years where the franchise QB might be considered questionable......2011-5-3.... Based on the above....Id say we are due to have a no franchise draft..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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