Why we need a QB in Top 5

[StinkHole]

 

The Steelers are one the most talent laden teams in the NFL.

Only if you take those 3-4 players. Otherwise their talent level is pedestrian. If they were so talented besides those guys, ALL that talent would have run over the "Very little talented Browns". Pretty much the opposite happened.

One meaningless game doesn't do your argument justice.

 

Pittsburgh is #12 in defense, Browns #31

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

 

You could say many teams that without their top 3 or four stars that they are "pedestrian" or as good as the browns...which of course would also be ridiculous.

 

What names in New England stand out besides Brady, Gronk and maybe Blount?

In Dallas...Dak, Elliot, and Bryant...but you cant exclude their offensive line,.... nor Pittsburghs nor New Englands.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/12/steelers-offensive-line-chance-set-franchise-record-sunday/

 

The Steelers without Ben, Brown, and Bell would still win a lot of games, therefore would still be better than the browns, not equal to them.

Williams is still a damn good running back, the Steelers have an arsenal of quality wide recievers and tight ends all better than Coleman. Landry Jones would be the weakest link, but the dude hardly plays. Given time I believe he would improve.

He did a hell of a job in the second half vs. the Browns.

 

[gftChris]

You could say many teams that without their top 3 or four stars that they are "pedestrian" or as good as the browns...which of course would also be ridiculous.

 

 

Browns without their best 3-4 players...oh dear

[Guest]

 

Browns without their best 3-4 players...oh dear

 

So who were our best players in 2016? I'd say:

 

1. Thomas

2. Jamie Collins for his half season. Guy is a beast

3. Crow. 4.9 yards per carry, not his fault they didn't give him the rock more..

4. Christian Kirksey ... he's turned into a heck of a player ... Farmer nailed one!

 

Honorable mention: I know it is cool to hate him, but I thought Joe Haden played well when healthy, Jamar Taylor turned into a nice free agent find. Danny Shelton is becoming the player we hoped for. Pryor makes a lot of mistakes, but makes up for it with his gifts, and the desire is there too, and the production can't be denied. The long snapper was tits.

 

There is 9 football players. The other 44 gotta get better or get replaced. Some look real promising, like Ogbah, but we need to get beyond promising and to production next year. Other good players, like Bitonio need to stay healthy to make this list.

 

Zombo

--Don't think I would have had a QB in my Top 30

[The Gipper]

 

 

If you can assure me that he's the next Aaron Rodgers then I'm all in. Draft him #1 overall and give him 10% ownership in the team as well. From what I've seen and what we also have as a history of guys with 1 year starting in college and how that transfers to a lack of NFL success, there are a lot of red flags about this kid. Besides all that, unless I've missed something, he hasn't even said he's coming out yet.

Well, of course, if he decides not to come out, then all bets are off.

 

While Stan may be absolutely right....that the kid could benefit from another year in school.....that doesn't always work out.

And if you are slated to be a Top 5 pick....and MT is that....you jump.

[The Gipper]

I wouldn't even count the most recent drafts for hits and missed, too early to tell. Looking through it 2007 - 2014 I have it 4-1-4 with Bortles being the tie.

Break that down a bit more if you would. And I do think that it seems safe to conclude that both Winston and Mariota appear on their way to being very good NFL QBs. But sure, there is time for them to fall flat. After RGs and Sanchez's first years you would have said they on their way to being very good. And, Yes, way to early on Goff/Wentz.

[The Gipper]

I don't think I accurately made my point, Gip,

 

I am not saying we ignore the QB position, I am saying we HAVE ignored it. We have ignored it by not going after the very top prospects, save Couch, and we have ignored it by not putting the QBs we have taken into a more QB friendly situation.

 

Yes, very fair point.

 

You simply cannot start out with #2 and #32, and come away with Coleman.

We got Ogbah at 32. Jury still out on both obviously.

 

As I pointed out, had the FO really positioned themselves to hold on to Gordon and Pryor, then the addition of Coleman was okay because THAT 3 WR tandem would indeed be a QB friendly move. Likewise, how the hell can a QB succeed when players continue to drop passes, fumble pick 6s at the goal line, make stupid penalties and miss tackles?????

 

This past Sunday it almost seemed like the Browns were jinxed that way.

 

I have always maintained the the QB is the main focus of a team. Without a great QB there is no winning. My point is that the QB is not currently the priority with the Browns. Understand my point, simply using the #1 pick on a top QB in itself is not an example of being committed to filling this hole. What if the next QB doesn't work out..................what is left for the next try to step in to? That's what the Browns lack.

 

I still think you go for it. What happens if it doesn't work out.....try try again.

 

I am sorry but how the fuck can anyone look at this team and with any credibility say that hue created a better machine for the next guy to step into.

 

Go ahead, pick a great QB....then put him into this shit. Our 2016 draft was a bust. Any time the NFL displays great rookie performances way better than your rookie pick, your draft is a failure. You cannot close the distance on your competitors when their 1st round picks make yours look like shit.

Well, what are we/the Browns supposed to do? Give up.....trade every first round pick they have for a pack of 3rd rounders. That won't work.

They just gotta keep pluggin' away. What else can they do?

[Tour2ma]

You classify it as a person having an instinct about talent. That is what is evident.

 

lol... thanks for that. Needed a laugh...

 

I don't think I accurately made my point, Gip,

 

I am not saying we ignore the QB position, I am saying we HAVE ignored it. We have ignored it by not going after the very top prospects, save Couch, and we have ignored it by not putting the QBs we have taken into a more QB friendly situation.

 

You simply cannot start out with #2 and #32, and come away with Coleman.

 

Without a great QB there is no winning. My point is that the QB is not currently the priority with the Browns. Understand my point, simply using the #1 pick on a top QB in itself is not an example of being committed to filling this hole. What if the next QB doesn't work out..................what is left for the next try to step in to? That's what the Browns lack.

 

I am sorry but how the fuck can anyone look at this team and with any credibility say that hue created a better machine for the next guy to step into.

 

For a clarification that was very confusing. Great teams do win without "great QBs", so why dilute your valid points with such a demonstrably wrong, absolute statement? Great teams don't win with "bad QBs"... and bad teams don't win even with good ones.

 

I've decried past drafts bypassing great talent, seemingly out of sheer ignorance, nearly as much as you have, yet I did not decry this last draft because I got what they were doing... or at least I think I did/do. This draft will be telling... this off-season will be telling.

 

And Hue has prepared the ground for building. How many other HCs have we had that could hold a team together thru 1 and 15? Give the man some credit for that. Not a lot? Fine... but some.

 

I'm 3-2-4 with bortles not a tie. Perspective is funny.

 

2-3-4 here... with Ryan and Luck as my "2", and only because "Matty Ice" finally won me over this year.

[jrb12711]

I wouldn't even count the most recent drafts for hits and missed, too early to tell. Looking through it 2007 - 2014 I have it 4-1-4 with Bortles being the tie.

 

Honestly, I think the thing to take away from your list is that of the QB's taken with the first overall pick only one was a hardcore bust in Russell. Bradford is "meh" (but far from a bust), but I'd sure as shit take Stafford, Luck, Ryan, Newton. Winston is quickly turning into franchise material and Goff is a we'll see.

 

Looking at it that way that looks pretty good in our favor if we like a certain guy with the number one pick, but of course that means a whole lot of nothing.

[Tour2ma]

Absolutely, ghoolie. We need to invest in O-linemen and make sure that the QB is protected and we can have a solid run game.

 

I'm sure you were trolling, but... OL is not only not high on my list of our needs, it's near the bottom.

 

LT is clearly set.

LG is set if Bito can get and stay healthy.

C is looking up with Reiter and Fabs competing, and only gets better if and when a healthy Greco returns.

RG has Paz and Drango competing, again with Greco lurking.

RT has Shon, Paz and even, yes, Cam in the mix.

 

That's four interior and four OT in the mix with one swing man... OK, three OTs... and Cam.

 

Only one left out was Bailey, who did some good work at RG, but stands to be the odd man out.

[The Gipper]

2-3-4 here... with Ryan and Luck as my "2", and only because "Matty Ice" finally won me over this year.

 

So, you don't think Newton and Stafford are bona fide?

[Tour2ma]

Honestly, I think the thing to take away from your list is that of the QB's taken with the first overall pick only one was a hardcore bust in Russell. Bradford is "meh" (but far from a bust), but I'd sure as shit take Stafford, Luck, Ryan, Newton. Winston is quickly turning into franchise material and Goff is a we'll see.

 

Sanchez is not a bust?

[Tour2ma]

2-3-4 here... with Ryan and Luck as my "2", and only because "Matty Ice" finally won me over this year.

 

So, you don't think Newton and Stafford are bona fide?

 

Obviously...

[The Gipper]

 

I'm sure you were trolling, but... OL is not only not high on my list of our needs, it's near the bottom.

 

LT is clearly set.

LG is set if Bito can get and stay healthy.

C is looking up with Reiter and Fabs competing, and only gets better if and when a healthy Greco returns.

RG has Paz and Drango competing, again with Greco lurking.

RT has Shon, Paz and even, yes, Cam in the mix.

 

That's four interior and four OT in the mix with one swing man... OK, three OTs... and Cam.

 

Only one left out was Bailey, who did some good work at RG, but stands to be the odd man out.

I still want a RT or OC taken high. Elflein, Ramczyk perhaps at top/mid 2d round.

[jrb12711]

 

Sanchez is not a bust?

 

I'm talking literally taken with the first overall pick in the draft like the guys I've noted. The Sanchize was drafted 5th that year, but did actually go to two AFC championship games..

[The Gipper]

 

Obviously...

What is your criteria then. Must they have won a Super Bowl?

[The Gipper]

 

I'm talking literally taken with the first overall pick in the draft like the guys I've noted. The Sanchize was drafted 5th that year, but did actually go to two AFC championship games..

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin

2011: QB taken #1 Newton

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan

2007: QB taken #1: Russell

So, give the hits and misses from this bunch.

[The Gipper]

If we go back another 10 years and look at the QBs taken in the Top 5 you have this list:

 

2006 Vince Young #3

 

2005 Alex Smith #1

 

2004 Eli Manning #1, Phillip Rivers #4

 

2003 Carson Palmer #1

 

2002 David Carr #1, Joey Harrington #3

 

2001 Michael Vick #1

 

2000 none

 

1999 Tim Couch #1, Donovan McNabb #2, Akili Smith #3

 

1998 Peyton Manning #1, Ryan Leaf #2

 

 

Here, it is definitely hit or miss. Major quality QBs, major busts.

[Guest]

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz Too Early

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota Hitting ... Hitting

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles Missing

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin Hit/Miss

2011: QB taken #1 Newton Hit

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford Missing

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez Hit/Miss

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan Hit

2007: QB taken #1: Russell Miss

[Mark O]

 

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz Too Early

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota Hitting ... Hitting

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles Missing

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin Hit/Miss

2011: QB taken #1 Newton Hit

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford Missing

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez Hit/Miss

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan Hit

2007: QB taken #1: Russell Miss

 

 

I'd go with that ranking as well. Except I'd say Bortles and Bradford are misses.

[Guest]

 

I'd go with that ranking as well. Except I'd say Bortles and Bradford are misses.

 

Ya, Bradford is no #1 overall in worth, but he can start a season for ya.

 

Bortles looks like just a guy as well.

 

Zombo

[Mark O]

 

Ya, Bradford is no #1 overall in worth, but he can start a season for ya.

 

Bortles looks like just a guy as well.

 

Zombo

 

 

Look what the Vikings gave up for him thinking they had a "super bowl team" and what did that get them? The same thing as the Browns, sitting at home watching the playoffs, except the draft picks they gave up for him.

 

Bortles isn't even just a guy...he just plain sucks.

[The Gipper]

I always have to laugh my ass off when someone blasts the Steelers by saying shit like.......... "Well, without Ben and Brown, they are pedestrian". What the Fuck does that mean? The Steelers suck dick because if you take their best players away they are not as good? So, what the fuck would the Browns have been without Jim Brown?

Well, that is sort of my point Ghoolie.....that the difference between the teams talent wise is merely a matter of 3-4 quality impact players.

I mean, yes, that is important, and makes all the difference......but the other point is that the gap between them, talentwise, is not all that great.

 

The Steelers are one of the best teams of 2016. Even in the SB years, the Steelers weren't blowing the Browns out. Division games are always tough. The Steelers played lesser players, the game had little meaning. It was th SB for the Browns, and even with Tom Selleck at QB, when it mattered, the Steelers do what they always do............they fuck the Browns right in the pussy.

Or, as often or not, like this past week....it is the Browns fucking themselves with stupid as shit mistakes and decisions.

 

I am not a huge fan of Tomlin, but I also would not be surprised to see the Steelers in the show, or at least the AFC championship game. I don't care if you hate the fuckers, but for the love of God people, their level of talent, intensity, aggression, discipline and execution is in a different league than the Browns.

Except, that on Sunday...it was not.....except for the discipline and execution part. The Browns matched...no...exceeded... the Steelers in talent, intensity, and aggression....but fucked up in discipline and execution.

 

This conversation is like listening to a guy making fun of the way your wife looks when he is with Whoopie GoldTurd. Get over it already. The Steelers are good team. They have a great culture and rabid fans. How the fuck do you knock down the team that spanks you every fucking year? It is like a Michigan fan shouting that Ohio State sucks.

 

Well, OK, but if you saw that Ohio State/Michigan game you would have to say that Michigan was just about every bit Ohio State's equal in that game.

And it took fuckups by Michigan to win.

Again, take BR, Brown, Bell....off the Steelers and on the Browns and which team do you think generally wins?

 

Moronic.

[The Gipper]

He was trolling. Everyone knows my feeling on OL men. Dime-a-dozen. Most SB winners wind up winning with a makeship OL with a lot of starters hurt. The OL is however vitally important. Ours sucks. At the same time, I don't any other team has given more draft and FA attention to the OL, as the Browns have. But that doesn't mean shit. there is adequate talent, there is no leadership.

And we can say also that no team has done what you have wanted and given more draft and FA attention to offensive skill players than the Browns. And that hasn't meant shit either. The talent they have gotten at those skill positions has NOT been adequate.

[tiamat63]

Had to go back and watch Rodgers at Cal to refesh myself.

 

I have no clue how you're drawing this comparison, Gip.

[hoorta]

 

I'm sure you were trolling, but... OL is not only not high on my list of our needs, it's near the bottom.

 

LT is clearly set.

LG is set if Bito can get and stay healthy.

C is looking up with Reiter and Fabs competing, and only gets better if and when a healthy Greco returns.

RG has Paz and Drango competing, again with Greco lurking.

RT has Shon, Paz and even, yes, Cam in the mix.

 

That's four interior and four OT in the mix with one swing man... OK, three OTs... and Cam.

 

Only one left out was Bailey, who did some good work at RG, but stands to be the odd man out.

 

Greco at center? Maybe Tour. But it's mighty dangerous to rely on Reiter or Fabulous Fabio after one game auditions for the position. It's why I want either Elflin or Pocic in the second round- if either is there.

[Tour2ma]

So much for Ghoolie talking football... and it's not even a full moon.

 

Greco at center? Maybe Tour. But it's mighty dangerous to rely on Reiter or Fabulous Fabio after one game auditions for the position. It's why I want either Elflin or Pocic in the second round- if either is there.

 

Although we cannot depend on Greco returning to form, at a casual glance both "the kids" looked promising to me, h. May change my tune after I grade Fabs and scout your two studlies...

 

I will say that I watched Elflein in a couple games, not religiously, but with periods of focus and I was not overly impressed. I saw "good" with a couple flaws. Again, however, my tune may change...

[tiamat63]

How do any of you know if this is a weak QB draft class or not?

 

I mean, most of you garlic gonad garglers thought RG3 was a GREAT signing for us. Seriously, if you thought that, then what the fuck do you know about who is a good QB in this draft or not?

 

 

You should probably go back and read my camps notes about Robert then.

[Tour2ma]

You should probably go back and read my camps notes about Robert then.

 

Meh... it has to be "most" tia. The "man" simply can't feel good enough about himself if the truth was most were skeptics.

[hoorta]

 

Meh... it has to be "most" tia. The "man" simply can't feel good enough about himself if the truth was most were skeptics.

 

I was strongly in the "Never Robert " camp, especially at the asking price. I do remember a few guys (some that are regulars on the other board) were saying he was going to set the league on fire. He did for a year, and then flamed out like Derek Anderson, once defensive coordinators got some tape on him. I hope since Hue sent Horton packing, he's going to realize that earth moving when he worked out Griffin was a garbage truck dumping a load right behind him. He might be OK as a backup, but that's about it, IMHO.

[Tour2ma]

You're preaching to the choir, h... while simultaneously supporting the point I made that you quoted.

 

 

And with that... I'm done talking about Ghoolie as well as reading him...