Why we need a QB in Top 5

[Browns1216]

To throw a wrench into everything

 

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/bengals-aj-mccarron-ready-for-a-trade/381358220

 

offer up one of our many late-round draft picks for A.J. McCarron and use our early round picks drafting BPA. Browns have so many holes, it doesn't matter what position they draft as long as they get the best possible football player they can get. Or just stick with Kessler, save the draft picks and fix this horrible defense and get some depth on the offensive line. Just don't waste a high draft pick on a QB that will end up getting killed on this team.

[RoyceRolls]

i looked up "red flag" in the dictionary and it turns out the definition is when an NFL team is willing to trade a quarterback within the division.

[TexasAg1969]

To throw a wrench into everything

 

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/bengals-aj-mccarron-ready-for-a-trade/381358220

 

offer up one of our many late-round draft picks for A.J. McCarron and use our early round picks drafting BPA. Browns have so many holes, it doesn't matter what position they draft as long as they get the best possible football player they can get. Or just stick with Kessler, save the draft picks and fix this horrible defense and get some depth on the offensive line. Just don't waste a high draft pick on a QB that will end up getting killed on this team.

 

Defensive pass rushers round one (with this deep class there will be two there @ 1 and 12) and C plus OL round 2. Round 3 should still have a good Safety available. I could also live with a pass rusher and a CB at 1 and 12 since Ogbah will get better with a pure pass rusher on the opposite end.

[The Gipper]

Gip picked a guy so he has to ride it into the ground. It is his thing. Facts don't matter. Trubisky said he wants to be a Brown thus Aaron Rodgers haha.

Facts do matter.......but this IS a matter of talent evaluation.....which is obviously based on opinion.

 

But here is a fact: In my opinion this guy has Aaron Rodgers like talent and aptitude. It has nothing to do with where he is from.

 

The Browns passed on BR. They passed on Rodgers. They passed on Carr. And others....and we have been in QB hell. I just want us to get out of Hell. And I think this guy can get us there better than anyone.

[The Gipper]

What about Trubisky's game reminds you of Aaron Rodgers? Any particular game we should check out?

Similar size....both about 6'3 I believe. Both have quick release. Strong arm. Accurate arm. Mobility. Moxy. Both tangibles and intangibles.

Again, not perfect. Obviously Rodgers wasn't considered perfect since he lasted until #24.

[jiggins7919]

Bengals management has never traded within the division, and they said they never will. They're apparently "old school", and one of our beat writers said this would never happen. However, I believe his contract is up in 2018, so anything is possible then. I don't remember if the Bengals have ever traded with us, but can't really think of anything off hand.

[The Gipper]

To throw a wrench into everything

 

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/bengals-aj-mccarron-ready-for-a-trade/381358220

 

offer up one of our many late-round draft picks for A.J. McCarron and use our early round picks drafting BPA. Browns have so many holes, it doesn't matter what position they draft as long as they get the best possible football player they can get. Or just stick with Kessler, save the draft picks and fix this horrible defense and get some depth on the offensive line. Just don't waste a high draft pick on a QB that will end up getting killed on this team.

Or....maybe get the QB at #1...and use the other 12 picks or whatever we have, plus free agency to bolster the OL.

Start with drafting Elflein or Pocic at OC. Maybe take Ramczyk at RT. Or get a Free Agent or two. Westside Steve brought up Eric Steinbach as an example of what we should do. It wouldn't hurt the Browns to sign a decent FA or two to fill some holes, would it?

[Tour2ma]

Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....

 

Yup... all bass-ackwards...

[Taco918]

Similar size....both about 6'3 I believe. Both have quick release. Strong arm. Accurate arm. Mobility. Moxy. Both tangibles and intangibles.

Again, not perfect. Obviously Rodgers wasn't considered perfect since he lasted until #24.

So are we sitting Mitch for three years to get the whole "Rodgers" effect as well?

[The Gipper]

So are we sitting Mitch for three years to get the whole "Rodgers" effect as well?

Only if you think that RGIII is the equivalent of Brett Favre.

[The Cysko Kid]

When I thought this board was gonna close I checked into the tard for the first time in years. Y'all's buddy shep is in love with trubisky. What do ya'll think of that?

[Mark O]

When I thought this board was gonna close I checked into the tard for the first time in years. Y'all's buddy shep is in love with trubisky. What do ya'll think of that?

 

Did he talk about how fast Triblowski's spin rate is?

[MLD Woody]

no no no no

 

No one worth that high of a pick

[hoorta]

Gip,

 

the debates of where to find a QB and how important the QB is, are exhausted. We all know there is no guarantee and we all know the QB is the most important ingredient to a successful team. I have two problems with the Browns franchise as it applies to QBs.

 

Save Tim Couch, the Browns have not gone after another top prospect. Quinn and Manziel were guys who nobody else wanted. Let's be honest. Picking these guys was nothing more than the management doing something to cover their ass and say " See, see...we do go after QBs.

 

As you pointed out, great QBs come from many different round spots. You just never know. Personally, I liked the Cody Kessler pick. I still do. But here is where my dissatisfaction starts. Whether it is finding a diamond in the rough, or spending a high pick on a top prospect, the Browns organization does not have a QB mentality. There was no logic or system in place to put Kessler into the best situation our money and talent allowed.

 

Spending our top pick on Coleman was wrong. There never was a chance Coleman was going to be an Antonio Brown of Julio Jones. As a #3 WR? yeah, I am down with it. HOWEVER............ if that was the logic then the FO should have done every fucking thing possible to kiss Josh Gordon's ass and use every fan, social media and even racial/political dirty trick to get this guy happy, straight and on board. Belichik wouldn't now have let him walk over this kind of shit.

 

So, if I can go back in time.................. Secure Gordon, Pryor and add Coleman? Fuck....yeah....I am excited about that. THAT would have been QB culture in helping Cody get a good start. So then maybe you take one of those fatass OL I hate with the next pick...........?

 

Now, it adds up......... impressive WR team, TE are ok, Crowell...not bad............... get Thomas some help?

Add to that offensive play calling that makes defenses worry about deeper patterns?

 

YES YES YES............now maybe Kessler doesn't get destroyed, now maybe we win a few of those winnable games,

 

But these fucking morons didn't do any of that. As hard as I have been on the Browns, we have some nice players. I believe decent enough talent to say that we do have some kind of a foundation.

 

My concern is that the FO doesn't have a clue about building a QB culture, and instead just reacts to put out fires in the media.

 

So, I will give the devil his due, but I think the entire group, including Hue have underachieved.............. mostly in getting the most out of what we have. Drafting a new QB isn't going to fix that.

 

 

And to Woody- yes, yes, yes. The first pick is what it is. as someone said- somebody has to use it whether it's worth the talent level or not. That will bring me to my point. To those who have a man-crush on Garrett. Defense wins championships and all that. Let's take a stroll down memory lane of recent DL studs. Bruce Smith- made the SB, never won one. Reggie White had the advantage of playing with a guy named Brett Favre. Ndamukong Suh is the most recent example, and damn I was creaming my pants seeing him playing in college- I won't ever forget his 15' rag doll toss of Colt McCoy. Yup he's a super stud alright- but both him and Fairley (who isn't exactly a slouch either) never got the Lions to a Super Bowl, and I'm betting the Dolphins are going to fall short this year too.

 

So- we can debate the merits of offense-defense until April. but we have that #1 overall. Ghoolie pointed out all those other picks (Quinn, We-done, Manziel) were not the pick of the litter. They were all, in one way or another reaches- and I always love to point out the potential guys we could have had if we hadn't stupidly gifted the future first round pick to Dallas the following year to draft busto Quinn. Toss in "projects" Frye and McCoy. That qb jersey is getting mighty long, and it's about f**king time for it to stop.

 

It's time to not be wimps. so should we go the bargain bin route again with Mahomes or Allen? I've seen enough of Trubisky, plenty of other board members and draft board pundits have too- think he's worthy of the first pick. I see a slightly less polished version of Wentz, and he went #2 overall. I've mentioned it in another thread- around 12 years ago the ping pong balls spit out another NE Ohio kid LeBron James. I think this just might be the year where history is going to repeat itself. The Brown's #1 overall IMHO is playing with house money- we still have the #12 to go for the "safe" pick.

[ATENEARS]

i looked up "red flag" in the dictionary and it turns out the definition is when an NFL team is willing to trade a quarterback within the division.

 

Excellent point.

[ATENEARS]

 

And to Woody- yes, yes, yes. The first pick is what it is. as someone said- somebody has to use it whether it's worth the talent level or not. That will bring me to my point. To those who have a man-crush on Garrett. Defense wins championships and all that. Let's take a stroll down memory lane of recent DL studs. Bruce Smith- made the SB, never won one. Reggie White had the advantage of playing with a guy named Brett Favre. Ndamukong Suh is the most recent example, and damn I was creaming my pants seeing him playing in college- I won't ever forget his 15' rag doll toss of Colt McCoy. Yup he's a super stud alright- but both him and Fairley (who isn't exactly a slouch either) never got the Lions to a Super Bowl, and I'm betting the Dolphins are going to fall short this year too.

 

So- we can debate the merits of offense-defense until April. but we have that #1 overall. Ghoolie pointed out all those other picks (Quinn, We-done, Manziel) were not the pick of the litter. They were all, in one way or another reaches- and I always love to point out the potential guys we could have had if we hadn't stupidly gifted the future first round pick to Dallas the following year to draft busto Quinn. Toss in "projects" Frye and McCoy. That qb jersey is getting mighty long, and it's about f**king time for it to stop.

 

It's time to not be wimps. so should we go the bargain bin route again with Mahomes or Allen? I've seen enough of Trubisky, plenty of other board members and draft board pundits have too- think he's worthy of the first pick. I see a slightly less polished version of Wentz, and he went #2 overall. I've mentioned it in another thread- around 12 years ago the ping pong balls spit out another NE Ohio kid LeBron James. I think this just might be the year where history is going to repeat itself. The Brown's #1 overall IMHO is playing with house money- we still have the #12 to go for the "safe" pick.

 

Bruce Smith played in four straight, if we can make ONE, I'd take him. How many of the Super Bowl careers of these #1 overall drafted QB's would you take over Bruce Smith's? Eli's maybe?

 

2012 Andrew Luck QB Indianapolis

2011 Cam Newton QB Carolina

2010 Sam Bradford QB St. Louis

2009 Matt Stafford QB Detroit

2007 JaMarcus Russell QB Oakland

2005 Alex D. Smith QB San Francisco

2004 Eli Manning QB San Diego

2003 Carson Palmer QB Cincinnati

2002 David Carr QB Houston

2001 Michael Vick QB Atlanta

1999 Tim Couch QB Cleveland

[ATENEARS]

 

I've mentioned it in another thread- around 12 years ago the ping pong balls spit out another NE Ohio kid LeBron James. I think this just might be the year where history is going to repeat itself. The Brown's #1 overall IMHO is playing with house money- we still have the #12 to go for the "safe" pick.

 

C'mon Shep wannabee, Mitch Trubisky is not the next LeBron James. Don't go getting all senile on us for fucksake.

[The Gipper]

Gip,

 

the debates of where to find a QB and how important the QB is, are exhausted. We all know there is no guarantee and we all know the QB is the most important ingredient to a successful team. I have two problems with the Browns franchise as it applies to QBs.

 

Save Tim Couch, the Browns have not gone after another top prospect. Quinn and Manziel were guys who nobody else wanted. Let's be honest. Picking these guys was nothing more than the management doing something to cover their ass and say " See, see...we do go after QBs.

 

As you pointed out, great QBs come from many different round spots. You just never know. Personally, I liked the Cody Kessler pick. I still do. But here is where my dissatisfaction starts. Whether it is finding a diamond in the rough, or spending a high pick on a top prospect, the Browns organization does not have a QB mentality. There was no logic or system in place to put Kessler into the best situation our money and talent allowed.

 

Spending our top pick on Coleman was wrong. There never was a chance Coleman was going to be an Antonio Brown of Julio Jones. As a #3 WR? yeah, I am down with it. HOWEVER............ if that was the logic then the FO should have done every fucking thing possible to kiss Josh Gordon's ass and use every fan, social media and even racial/political dirty trick to get this guy happy, straight and on board. Belichik wouldn't now have let him walk over this kind of shit.

 

So, if I can go back in time.................. Secure Gordon, Pryor and add Coleman? Fuck....yeah....I am excited about that. THAT would have been QB culture in helping Cody get a good start. So then maybe you take one of those fatass OL I hate with the next pick...........?

 

Now, it adds up......... impressive WR team, TE are ok, Crowell...not bad............... get Thomas some help?

Add to that offensive play calling that makes defenses worry about deeper patterns?

 

YES YES YES............now maybe Kessler doesn't get destroyed, now maybe we win a few of those winnable games,

 

But these fucking morons didn't do any of that. As hard as I have been on the Browns, we have some nice players. I believe decent enough talent to say that we do have some kind of a foundation.

 

My concern is that the FO doesn't have a clue about building a QB culture, and instead just reacts to put out fires in the media.

 

So, I will give the devil his due, but I think the entire group, including Hue have underachieved.............. mostly in getting the most out of what we have. Drafting a new QB isn't going to fix that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that this FO may have little clue about what to do with their drafts.

But I disagree that you ignore the most important need of this team. If they draft the right QB....a lot can change in my opinion.

So I don't think that we should not do something because we are afraid that if we do it won't work.

Maybe it won't work....then we are no worse off than we are now.

But...maybe it will work.

[Tour2ma]

Let's take a stroll down memory lane of recent DL studs.

Bruce Smith- made the SB, never won one.

Reggie White had the advantage of playing with a guy named Brett Favre.

Ndamukong Suh is the most recent example, and damn I was creaming my pants seeing him playing in college- I won't ever forget his 15' rag doll toss of Colt McCoy. Yup he's a super stud alright- but both him and Fairley (who isn't exactly a slouch either) never got the Lions to a Super Bowl, and I'm betting the Dolphins are going to fall short this year too.

• I'd argue White won in spite of Favre, but the simpler case is to count how many SBs Favre won without Reggie.
• Bruce Smith played with Jim Kelly who last I looked was in the HoF.
• Suh/ Fairley played with Matt Stafford, no slouch there.

So your points fall a little flat. No doubt that QB is the single-most important piece of the puzzle. But there are many, many other important pieces.

 

There are many examples of average QBs riding their D to SB wins: Flacco and Dilfer with the Ravens, Plunkett (Raiders), McMahon (Bears), Hostetler (Raiders), Johnson (TB), Big Ben's 1st (Steelers), Manning's last (Broncos). I'd even argue the bulk of Aikman's SBs qualify.

 

Add that there are more than a few great QBs who never won a SB and...

 

 

Bottom line: If you see your QB, if you see "the one", then by all means go get him. But don't see things that aren't there just because he's the most important piece of the puzzle.

[The Gipper]

 

C'mon Shep wannabee, Mitch Trubisky is not the next LeBron James. Don't go getting all senile on us for fucksake.

OK, no, perhaps not LeBron James....but as I said, I think I see a lot of Aaron Rodgers in him......and I think we can use that.

Fair to say?

[The Gipper]

 

• I'd argue White won in spite of Favre, but the simpler case is to count how many SBs Favre won without Reggie.
• Bruce Smith played with Jim Kelly who last I looked was in the HoF.
• Suh/ Fairley played with Matt Stafford, no slouch there.

So your points fall a little flat. No doubt that QB is the single-most important piece of the puzzle. But there are many, many other important pieces.

 

There are many examples of average QBs riding their D to SB wins: Flacco and Dilfer with the Ravens, Plunkett (Raiders), McMahon (Bears), Hostetler (Raiders), Johnson (TB), Big Ben's 1st (Steelers), Manning's last (Broncos). I'd even argue the bulk of Aikman's SBs qualify.

 

Add that there are more than a few great QBs who never won a SB and...

 

 

Bottom line: If you see your QB, if you see "the one", then by all means go get him. But don't see things that aren't there just because he's the most important piece of the puzzle.

 

No one would debate that there are not other pieces of the puzzle.

But, its like chess......you need rooks, Knights, Bishops and pawns.

But, most importantly you need your Queen.

Your QB is your Queen....your most important, vital, and powerful weapon.

So, we get a Queen with #1.

We get a Rook at #12 (DB/LB)

We get a Bishop at #33 (OL?)

We get a Knight at #52 (defender)

And we take pawns after that....and hope some of them can pull some muscle on the chess board.

[jrb12711]

The big "issue" for us regarding the QB position is that two teams behind us (SF and Chicago) are very likely looking at the same position as well. If a guy like Mitch raises his stock until draft day I wouldn't be surprised at all if he becomes the #1 pick because he wouldn't fall far.

[Tour2ma]

But until he raises it...

[Douche Nozzle]

I know you are a big proponent of the philosophy that a team can't be competitive without a great QB and that belief is true. However, where you are usually foolish about this is in thinking that a great QB will make the Browns competitive, which is not true.

 

History should tell you that drafting a top-rated QB is a foolish mistake unless you either have, or are a whisker away from having, a solid team. The Browns are at least another year from that only next year will tell if it is one more year or more.

 

I know you believe that all the QB's the Browns have tried are all bums but, again, a little common sense might tell you that anyone on the team the Browns have sported for the majority of the last 25 years is going to look like a bum due to a lack of talent, lack of scheme, lack of coaching, lack of leadership, etc. Did the Browns try a host of bums at QB or did the Browns turn every QB prospect into a bum?

 

The Browns need to establish a system, fill the giant void of talent at key positions, show improvement, and then draft a top 5 QB.

[ATENEARS]

OK, no, perhaps not LeBron James....but as I said, I think I see a lot of Aaron Rodgers in him......and I think we can use that.

Fair to say?

 

The #24 overall pick Aaron Rogers that sat for three years behind an All-Pro and took over a 13-3 team? That Aaron Rogers?

 

Like I said, if Mitch Tubisky was gonna sit for a few years and mature, and if he was coming into a quality system, sure let's gamble ... but he is not the polished QB that we take as the #1 and toss him into a COMPLETELY screwed up franchise with no all-stars.

 

No, not like Aaron Rogers .... I'll give you the Tim Couch scenario and how how we abused him though as an anology.

[gftChris]

I think for the same reason we passed on Wentz, we pass on Trubisky and Kizer. They're not looking for a 'project' guy, who has great physical attributes but needs some 'seasoning' in the pros, they're looking for a guy that will for sure have a long career as a starter.

 

Just my inkling.

[Mark O]

 

 

Bottom line: If you see your QB, if you see "the one", then by all means go get him. But don't see things that aren't there just because he's the most important piece of the puzzle.

 

 

 

Exactly the same thing I've heard Billick say numerous times. "Need is a terrible evaluator of talent". We need a QB so we're going to over value a QB just because we need one. I think we've done it with Quinn, Manziel, Weeden, etc etc.

 

The need for a QB doesn't make Tribusky or any of the other QB's in this draft any better.

[Harry Buffalo]

I don't think any of these qbs this year are worth a top 10 pick.

[The Gipper]

I know you are a big proponent of the philosophy that a team can't be competitive without a great QB and that belief is true. However, where you are usually foolish about this is in thinking that a great QB will make the Browns competitive, which is not true.

 

Without BR, the Steelers would be about as good as the Browns. So, your statement is foolish. That is because the Steelers are not otherwise all that talented.

While true that a great QB won't make a bad team great, it is still a required commodity. Other things are needed for sure.

But your assumption is that the Browns CANNOT get ahold of those other things. They could, if they do things right.

 

History should tell you that drafting a top-rated QB is a foolish mistake unless you either have, or are a whisker away from having, a solid team. The Browns are at least another year from that only next year will tell if it is one more year or more.

 

I know you believe that all the QB's the Browns have tried are all bums but,

Name one that wasn't a bum? Maybe Hoyer a bit.

 

again, a little common sense might tell you that anyone on the team the Browns have sported for the majority of the last 25 years is going to look like a bum due to a lack of talent, lack of scheme, lack of coaching, lack of leadership, etc. Did the Browns try a host of bums at QB or did the Browns turn every QB prospect into a bum?

Look how good all those QBs did elsewhere: They were bums here, and they were bums after they left.

So, while the Browns may have had all those other problems....lack of yada yada....they also had bums for QBs.

 

The Browns need to establish a system, fill the giant void of talent at key positions, show improvement, and then draft a top 5 QB.

 

The biggest void is AT the most key position: QB.

This offense is really not that far away from being pretty good. Its need an OL or two plus a QB.

The defense, yes, is further away.

But, by all means....lets follow your philosophy: Don't draft a possible franchise QB in fear that he will fail. Guarantee failure by not taking one.

[Douche Nozzle]

 

I know you are a big proponent of the philosophy that a team can't be competitive without a great QB and that belief is true. However, where you are usually foolish about this is in thinking that a great QB will make the Browns competitive, which is not true.

 

Without BR, the Steelers would be about as good as the Browns. So, your statement is foolish. That is because the Steelers are not otherwise all that talented.

While true that a great QB won't make a bad team great, it is still a required commodity. Other things are needed for sure.

But your assumption is that the Browns CANNOT get ahold of those other things. They could, if they do things right.

 

History should tell you that drafting a top-rated QB is a foolish mistake unless you either have, or are a whisker away from having, a solid team. The Browns are at least another year from that only next year will tell if it is one more year or more.

 

I know you believe that all the QB's the Browns have tried are all bums but,

Name one that wasn't a bum? Maybe Hoyer a bit.

 

again, a little common sense might tell you that anyone on the team the Browns have sported for the majority of the last 25 years is going to look like a bum due to a lack of talent, lack of scheme, lack of coaching, lack of leadership, etc. Did the Browns try a host of bums at QB or did the Browns turn every QB prospect into a bum?

Look how good all those QBs did elsewhere: They were bums here, and they were bums after they left.

So, while the Browns may have had all those other problems....lack of yada yada....they also had bums for QBs.

 

The Browns need to establish a system, fill the giant void of talent at key positions, show improvement, and then draft a top 5 QB.

 

The biggest void is AT the most key position: QB.

This offense is really not that far away from being pretty good. Its need an OL or two plus a QB.

The defense, yes, is further away.

But, by all means....lets follow your philosophy: Don't draft a possible franchise QB in fear that he will fail. Guarantee failure by not taking one.

 

You are a glue head with virtually every one of those statements.

 

The Steelers are one the most talent laden teams in the NFL.

 

Who's to say the playing for the Browns didn't ruin the QB's?

 

There is VERY little talent on the Browns, AT ANY POSITION, and the few key players which are talented are on their way to retirement. When a guy like Pryor stands out, it's not because he is great or even good, it's because he looks head and shoulders better than the void around him.