Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Oh is that how christians are now explaining away the more undesireable elements of the OT? Just anlittle side action that god had going with the joos? Nothing to see here is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Who said it didn't? You must be referring to some of the passages that speak only to the Jews who were alive at the time that particular book was written. Well of course those don't apply today unless you are thousands of years old and were liberated from being a slave in Egypt. I mean... You can pull out dozens of crazy things from the OT. Most religious people then respond with, more or less, that the OT doesn't count. Jesus said so or something. It's just interesting that now it counts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Cleve, leave OBF alone. I enjoy the reasonable Christian vs unreasonable Christian Christian offs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 I look forward to watching those videos that "prove the Bible" later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 I look forward to watching those videos that "prove the Bible" later Archeology time after time has vindicated the truthfulness of the stories in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Archeology time after time has vindicated the truthfulness of the stories in the bible. Archeology has never proved definitively the existence of jesus or any other of the other "supernatural/esoteric" concepts found in the bible. All that has been corroborated are places and people found in some parts of the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Here is one example: Is the Bible accurate concerning the destruction of the walls of Jericho?Read more at: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Oh geez, like i said obf....the bible is likely accurate in some of its historical accounts. But the explanations for those events....thats where the nonsense begins. Like that link you posted...."clearly something supernatural" was at work on those walls. The only thing clear and evident is that the author was peddling an unfounded narrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Ahh, now we get to the bottom of it...."Is it further possible that the Palestinian Authority supported this dig for the express purpose of denouncing any Jewish connection to the site?" Case dismissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Oh geez, like i said obf....the bible is likely accurate in some of its historical accounts. But the explanations for those events....thats where the nonsense begins. Like that link you posted...."clearly something supernatural" was at work on those walls. The only thing clear and evident is that the author was peddling an unfounded narrative The walls came tumbling down Cleve...except the one the bible states didn't, the evidence of the fire Israel set to Jericho, the canisters with grain which Israel was not supposed to take (which is why they were still there)...all the details of the battle of Jericho being shown to be accurate by the archeology.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 i still don't understand what's so amazing about someone writing down something they saw or were told about by others who saw something....and likely embellishing a few things here or there. Nothing proves god tore that wall down. Again, after 300 years you'd expect some headway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 "I would rather stand with God and be judged by the world, than stand with the world and be judged by God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Oh is that how christians are now explaining away the more undesireable elements of the OT? Just anlittle side action that god had going with the joos? Nothing to see here is that it? Which parts? Why do you suppose there is an Old Testament and New Testament? Christians view the Old Testament through the lens of the New Testament. How does God telling people in a particular place during a particular time thousands of years ago before the arrival of Jesus reflect anything on Christians or their interpretation of the Bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Does master, i mean pastor, give u treats every sunday? Clev, are you just trying to be a shit head? I don't recall OBF talking to you like that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I am no believer at all but there is no point in being a rude douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Clev, are you just trying to be a shit head? I don't recall OBF talking to you like that at all. Obf knows im good natured withhim. The others, not so much. Obf i respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Obf knows im good natured withhim. The others, not so much. Obf i respect I'll bet I could beat the fuck out of your 1990 Ford Monarch in a race shit bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I'll bet I could beat the fuck out of your 1990 Ford Monarch in a race shit bird. And the drunk is yelling at me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Wtf is a ford monarch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 And the drunk is yelling at me again. I don't drink. Never have. I'm Mormon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I don't drink. Never have. I'm Mormon. Very beleivable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Obf knows im good natured withhim. The others, not so much. Obf i respect Thanks Logic but I wasn't offended. Cleve's comment made me laugh as I follow no man or church. I follow the truth and He is the way, the truth and the life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Here is where Christians, me being one myself, so I feel I have a right to comment, is that Christians focus way to much on proving the "Bible". Christians have elevated a collection of writings to that of Christ himself and that belief in the "Bible" is also necessary for one to be a Christian. But ask this question. Where, in the Bible, does it say that one must believe in the Bible the way that so many Christians do today. The Bible is also silent on its own inerrancy and infallibility. How can we fully trust a compilation of letters put together by the Roman Catholic Church that also murdered those that wrote or said anything contrary to what they felt should be in the cannon. Also, Martin Luther argued that some of the books, should be left out and not included, specifically, Hebrews, James, 1,2 & 3rd John and Revelation (I might have missed a couple). The actual cannon was still hotly debated. Jesus Christ said himself that no one comes to the father, but through him. But today, Christians also hold that one must also believe in "The Bible" as if it were also another part of the Trinity (Also, another Catholic Tradition not once spoke of by Christ or needed for Christianity to exist but is some how now part of Orthodoxy and can't be debated). Ask yourself another question, if the Bible, is so important, what did the first century Christians do? Most only had access to some letters and many were probably illiterate and couldn't read or write. My point is that many Christians suffer from and espouse Bibliolatry. Christians make the Bible say and mean things that it was never meant to say or do, nor EVER spoken of by Christ. If Christians would focus their energy on the actual hope of the Gospel and the life of Christ, and put away petty arguments, how much more could be done? I can see what you are saying although the importance of the word cannot be underestimated. Christians out doing good works and helping with the poor is also needed. Actually the good works prove one's faith and that one's faith is real. It is just important to realize we are saved by faith and not works. Our works only prove we have faith. In the bible the apostle Paul stresses faith alone but the apostle James seems to contradict that by focusing on works. They actually blend together and are not opposed to each other. Faith Without Works Is Dead James 2:14-17 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Ephesians 2:8 the apostle Paul Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV) 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The importance of the word: Jesus is called the word (John 1:1). The grass withers the flowers fade but the word of God endures forever (Isa. 40:8). When Jesus was tempted by satan he used the word of God against him. Jesus said man does not live by bread alone but by every word from God. The bible is that word. Before we had the written word the early Christians had the spoken word but it was still the word of God. And they went forth and preached everywhere (preached what? the word of God) and signs followed the preaching of the word of God. We are saved by faith. faith in what? The word of God. God says it and we believe it. God says in His word how to be saved and without the word nobody would know the way of salvation. In Romans the Apostle Paul lays out God's plan for salvation and note the importance of the word: Romans 10:8-17: But what does it say?“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”14How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,Who bring glad tidings of good things!”16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says,“Lord, who has believed our report?” 17So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I appreciate the response. But one has to assume that the Paul and all other NT writers were thinking about and knew about the Bible, as we understand it today. We can't confuse every reference to the word "word" as a reference to modern day Christian use of the word "word" and how we equally apply to the Bible. One should also understand that any reference to "Scripture" in the NT is talking about the Pentateuch and the Torah, the OT. Here is another question. If the same spirit resides in us that also resided in Paul and the Apostles, and this same spirit guided them and inspired them to write the NT, why can't we do that today, and why can't some works be considered on the same level as the Bible? My point is that many Christians take a very modern, westernized, version of the Christianity and take all that this "version" offers without ever going back into history to explore and understand. Many if not millions of Christians lived and died without access to the modern version of the Bible. How did they manage to be such good Christians without the Bible? They had nothing to read, nothing to memorize, nothing to do their daily devotions. And don't forget the middle ages where the Roman Catholic church basically locked down the Bible and only allowed the priests access to it for reading and interpretation. And let's not add to the many things that modernized Christianity took from the RCC, specifically this overly vaulted view of what is considered the Bible. Yet, today, we speak of the Bible as this absolute necessity to being Christian. How dare we forget those Christians that held on to faith while being martyred without ever having seen, held, or read a Bible. Now, before you label me a heretic, I still regard and consider the Bible as a valuable tool and reference for Christians. It is what we have and I believe it to be precious. But, we should never make it more than it was ever meant to be. It is a collection of letters assembled, centuries after the life of Christ. We call it the Bible. It is however not a book that in and of itself brings, healing, prosperity, and a whole host of other fiction attributes. The Bible never says of itself that we have to read it, nor does it say that we have to memorize it. Nor, is it ever spoken of by Christ. All I ask is that we take a healthy approach on scripture, let it be what it actually is and stop with making it something that has be believed in with no doubt to be a Christian. We are saved by faith in Christ. We are not saved in faith in the accuracy and infallibility of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The best way to go into error is straying from biblical teaching. There are many who want to speak for God but if the revelation they get does not line up with the bible I would reject it out of hand. I believe in miracles and I believe God has preserved His word as He promised and the bible is truly the word of God. There are two schools of thought on this. One school says the bible contains the word of God and the other the bible is the word of God. Those in the first school believe there is a percentage of the bible that is inspired scripture maybe 25 percent. The problem they have is how do they know what is truly inspired scripture? They don't. The best way to be sure is to believe all of the bible is inspired scripture which I do. The middle ages where the word was locked up in monasteries in a language most people didn't understand also produced the dark ages. With the invention of the printing press and mass production of bibles it created a huge boost in the light coming to the masses. Now the fight is not getting the bible out to the people but getting people to believe the bible. If you believe the bible is the word of God then you believe the word is like God Himself just as I am like the words I speak. Someone may never know me in person but by reading my words they can get a picture of me. I have never met Jesus but I know Him by His words. The bible in many places speaks of the importance of the word. King David even said God has magnified His word above His name. I have been in this "way" for many years and the word in your heart and in your mouth produces results. I have experienced it many times myself. Just memorizing scripture won't do it but getting that word into your spirit and speaking it out is a biblical principal seen all through the bible from God speaking the universe into existence to Jesus and the disciples. The Apostle Paul said: "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak". What did Paul blieve? The word. I believe God still speaks to His people but it has to line up with His word. That is our measuring stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 What if I wrote a book for my religion that said the browns went 0-14 in 2016 because they didn't believe in my god, then they all started praying to me, so their opponent missed a FG and they won a game. When historians dig in to the ESPN archives to see the 1-14 record, and the missed FG, does that prove my religion true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 What if I wrote a book for my religion that said the browns went 0-14 in 2016 because they didn't believe in my god, then they all started praying to me, so their opponent missed a FG and they won a game. When historians dig in to the ESPN archives to see the 1-14 record, and the missed FG, does that prove my religion true? No but it wouldn't prove it false either. It would only prove shallowness of your religion. (and I was happy to see that missed fg). So the bigger question you are hinting at does answer to prayer prove one's faith? For example someone is sick and you pray for them to be healed and they are healed. Was that a true answer to prayer or would they have just naturally gotten well on their own? Or on the silly side you pray for your team to win (no Christian should ever do it) and they score 4 td's in the fourth quarter and they pull off a "miraculous" upset. Some things we don't know but I will be thankful for any answered prayer regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 So what exactly is the archeology proving here? That the things that already happened that the Bible wrote about actually happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 So what exactly is the archeology proving here? That the things that already happened that the Bible wrote about actually happened? In the example I used the bible tells the story of the battle of Jericho where the walls came down and Israel entered the city. The bible also states that a prostitute named Rahab and her family would be spared (for helping Israel) if they stayed in their house which was attached to the wall. The bible also states Israel burned everything in the city and was forbidden not to take any of the foodstuff. Archeology shows the bricks that came down from the city walls. It shows one wall that did not come down corresponding to what the bible says that Rahab and her family would be spared whose house was attached to the wall, it shows evidence of everything being burned and jars filled with grains showing that Israel did not take any of the food in the city....the details of the battle of Jericho in the bible lining up with the archeology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Right... But the book depicting the battle was written after the battle, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.