Flugel Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Flug, with that MikToxic post, it's like watching Mik sit in with the narrators of Beliveland & i think he could .. Call it a curse but watching game 1 of Cavs showed it's something. Nothing that we work for ever goes our way. Just the refs making wrong calls that can't be reviewed for some godly reason was just more prove. Than of course what we did earn we would give right back off a foot or a knee. Every Cleveland sports teams have always been called competitive but that does not put us over the hump of being a winner. But it takes some Luck,, & Damn its our turn... LOL! I could totally see Mik sitting in with the narrators of Believeland. The more we purge out the dead wood and bring in the passion/hustle, instincts and muscle - the further we get from here we go again. 14 draft picks, a few veteran FAs, and some rookie FAs (all of which have nothing to do with this team losing 13 games last year) - the better the chance we have at turning the corner with all those worth keeping. You're right - it is our turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Bless you Toxic. Knew it was just not me. Edit--For those looking for a good article on our OL rebuild, bleacherreport.com has a good outlook of now & whats to come of our OL. rebuild. tried to post it won't let me, but maybe someone can? left side remain the same, C-Erving(lord help us. article says his natural position at FSU but LT was) RG-Greco/Pasztor RT-Bailey/Bowie/Shon Coleman. Drango looks to be the replacement of Greco due to a better power line blocker than Greco's ZBS technique. Sounds like Power Blocking scheme with a tweaking West coast offense to get RG3 out of the pocket on quick reads.. Read a similar article yesterday in Dawg Pound Daily. Did not think it was worth posting, but here it is... https://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Read a similar article yesterday in Dawg Pound Daily. Did not think it was worth posting, but here it is... https://dawgpounddai...sive-line-2016/ Tour **************************************************** You forget that I don't know a lot of this stuff - this was a great read - I read the rest of the pages, too. That explains a LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Side note. "Our weed smoking friends say it isn't addictive" Nope, that's absolutely not true. Addiction is defined by one thing and one thing only: Can you stop tomorrow? If not, you're addicted. Weed leads to seriously bad things, especially during withdrawal -- hallucination, severe depression/desire not to go outside, etc. Go listen to more Dr.Drew if you ever for one second listen to some pothead assert "Weed isn't addictive, I just don't want to quit." Or my other favorite, "it's not a physical addiction, it's a psychological addiction" -- hint: That's not a difference, every addiction is both physical and psychological. Clearest example: pain meds for lower back pain. If you stop taking the vicodin, the pain goes away... because the brain creates phantom pain due to the addiction. Your "body" is not actually in pain - rather, the brain creates the pain because of its desire for the drug [read: addiction]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Read a similar article yesterday in Dawg Pound Daily. Did not think it was worth posting, but here it is... https://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/ See it's things like this that make me super optimistic. Dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Read a similar article yesterday in Dawg Pound Daily. Did not think it was worth posting, but here it is... https://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/ Good read T. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Read a similar article yesterday in Dawg Pound Daily. Did not think it was worth posting, but here it is... https://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/ Nah Tour- according to Ghoolie all you need is some big fat slob Sumos- there's no technique or skill set required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 lol... The reason I originally did not post he article is that I thought it was bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawg2fan Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 IM JUST READY FOR SOME FUCKING FOOTBALL!!!!!!! IT'S JUNE AND IM SICK OF WAITING FOR THE PITCHERS IN BASEBALL. JUST THROW THE MFer!!!! I'm with you on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 lol... The reason I originally did not post he article is that I thought it was bullshit. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 The reason I originally did not post he article is that I thought it was bullshit. Thanks T, that's the exact same post i read in bleacher. As our OL coach explain your thoughts of BS please? The only BS I still see is what Farmer screwed up in drafting Erving. Letting Mack go get a offer from Jags instead of paying the man & same with Schartz? we gotta move on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 lol... The reason I originally did not post he article is that I thought it was bullshit. You don't ask your 4 batter who weighs 250lbs to steal 3rd..... Right tool for the right job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 It certainly explains what was going on. It also shows the complete stupidity of Farmer/Pettine and co. Meanwhile, I just saw the local sports...they had a quick interview with Danny Shelton. He said their coaches know what they are doing, etc. And, he really has lost weight, and looks a lot quicker on the short clip of him practicing. Seriously looking more athletic. That should scare offensive lines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 That little video clip I saw was crazy. That's a BIG guy moving like that. I used to play volleyball (indoor) with several Samoan guys, and they were each 6'2 and easily 300 pounds....but they could JUMP. It was the strangest thing, kind of like how a bumblebee isn't supposed to fly. LOL. We need several guys on our team to "make the leap", and I hope it happens soon. It happens to teams ALL the time in the NFL, and it's PAST time it happen for us. Like, what round was Antonio Brown drafted in? Did anyone think HE'D be the best WR in the league? We need some things like that to our way, and maybe it's time. Shelton, Xavier Cooper, Orchard, Kirksey, Ogbah, and Nassib...hell...even GILBERT. I want to see them be impact players! (wouldn't bet on it, but hopeful. LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Why? As our OL coach explain your thoughts of BS please? The only BS I still see is what Farmer screwed up in drafting Erving. Letting Mack go get a offer from Jags instead of paying the man & same with Schartz? You don't ask your 4 batter who weighs 250lbs to steal 3rd..... Right tool for the right job. The premises simply don't ring true... 1. The "incompatibility" of the ZBS with the Vertical passing game. I don't think we ran the vertical enough to be characterized by that passing attack. And we ran more effectively behind power-gap schemes in 2015. 2. Mack, Greco and Schwartz as ZBS-only, or even predominantly ZBS, OL... with the latter drafted specifically for the ZBS... right... cause TR was a ZBS back. Mack and Greco anchored well. Schwartz had to learn how to move under Shanny. Just BS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 The premises simply don't ring true... 1. And we ran more effectively behind power-gap schemes in 2015. 2. Mack, Greco and Schwartz as ZBS-only, or even predominantly ZBS, OL... with the latter drafted specifically for the ZBS... right... cause TR was a ZBS back. Mack and Greco anchored well. Schwartz had to learn how to move under Shanny. Just BS... 1. but are we correct in saying Erving just looked way over his head till we went full power-gap? 2. your dead right. never considered the TR factor. nor did he....Knowing Cam's pass protection leaves a lot to be desired, just looking for a positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 1. but are we correct in saying Erving just looked way over his head till we went full power-gap? Not that I recall. I recall Erving looking way over his head until Paztor replaced him. And, of course, there was always a mix of ZBS and Power-Gap... it simply shifted thru the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Not that I recall. I recall Erving looking way over his head until Paztor replaced him. And, of course, there was always a mix of ZBS and Power-Gap... it simply shifted thru the year. And the keys this year for the Browns IMO will be whether the two 2nd year players Erving in the OL and Shelton in the DL still look in over their heads or become productive, essential every down pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 The optimism started in 1946 when Paul Brown and Otto Graham teamed up for the very first time. After 10 consecutive years of competing in Professional Football Championships and winning 7 of those (including 6 championship games in the NFL) - our Plymouth Rock was established for many family football traditions to follow. Our sabbatical from winning began with the owner. Hopefully this ownership's willingness to accept accountability for rookie mistakes enough for changes made in 2016 - restores a lot of the excitement this fan base deserves. If the team in 2014 can win 7 games (3 or 4 of them without Alex Mack), there's no reason this team can't do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm interested to see our WR's, as I'm sure many people are. In the past several years, NFL fans have seen many WR rookies come in and immediately contribute, sometimes at a high level. Wouldn't it be something if that happened for us? Maybe like what the Jaguars did with Allen Robinson, Marquis Lee, and Hurns. I know that's not the norm, but as I've been saying, maybe it's time for some things to go our way for a change. I think the biggest aspect that will ultimately kill our team is our lack of depth. I could see us hanging tough for a while, maybe even having a 2-3 record through five games, but once the injuries start coming (and they always do to every team), I just can't see us having the requisite depth to overcome them. I honestly don't see us going 0-5, or winning 2-3 games like some analysts have said. I see us winning 5, which obviously isn't GOOD, but it could be progress. Many people I've talked to are acting like RG III is terrible, and his rookie year was complete luck and a result of a somewhat "gimmick system". What many don't realize is, RG III had some good moments in his next year. His numbers were drastically different, but the team was kind of a mess. You remember the heat the coach took for leaving him in the game at the end of the year? That kind of stuff destroys a team, and Robert had to recover from a serious knee injury. Things were a mess in Washington, something we know all too well. With a new team, RG III might just get his confidence back. He now has a coach with a reputation of working well with QB's, and a strong desire to run the ball (QB's best friend). I have totally realistic expectations for RG III and our offense. I don't think we're going to set the league on fire, and I don't think we're going to the damn playoffs or anything crazy like that. But I do think that RG III will play at a solid level. What's that mean? I believe he'll throw the ball away, he'll slide on scrambles, he'll make the necessary quick reads, and he'll have a completion percentage of over 60%. He has a history of injuries, and many QB's in the NFL miss SOME time, but I can see RG III having numbers like this: 21 TD's, 15 INT's, 3400 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing. That's the kind of year I expect for RG III in his first year with us, and if that happens, and he stays healthy...perhaps we finally have our guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm interested to see our WR's, as I'm sure many people are. In the past several years, NFL fans have seen many WR rookies come in and immediately contribute, sometimes at a high level. Many people I've talked to are acting like RG III is terrible, and his rookie year was complete luck and a result of a somewhat "gimmick system". What many don't realize is, RG III had some good moments in his next year. Agree on the WRs... if we end up with a legit #1, then there is hope for the group as a whole. As for RG3... we've already seen him. Don't forget he started his 2nd season instructing his HC and OC to shit can all the Baylor-ish sets and plays that brought much of his Rookie success. He was going to play from the pocket... and he couldn't handle it. Has RG matured? Is he ready to accept playing however the staff wants him to play? Maybe... But is he capable of playing Baylor ball anymore? Did he gain pocket wisdom while on the shelf for a year? Maybe there is something "to see." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 It certainly explains what was going on. It also shows the complete stupidity of Farmer/Pettine and co. love ur optimism cal. just afraid i'll be hearing the same thing said about this crew in 2 years..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 love ur optimism cal. just afraid i'll be hearing the same thing said about this crew in 2 years..... I don't think we'll be hearing the same thing about our current crew. For one thing, our new front office didn't sign any bloated veteran contracts, and that's a good thing, right? My biggest problem so far with the FO is that we let so many people go. I wanted to keep at least ONE of Benji, Schwartz, Mack, or Gipson. Time will tell if we made the right calls. We have no idea how our rookie class will do, but I have to admit I like it on paper. We addressed a ton of needs and we didn't trade back with EVERY pick like I was afraid we'd do. The one thing that I didn't like was when we traded back in the third round. I believe that was the round we had back to back picks, and I was excited at seeing who we would get...and then I saw "trade!" and I was furious. I wanted Connor Cook with one of those picks, and I thought it was perfect. Hopefully I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 My biggest problem so far with the FO is that we let so many people go. I wanted to keep at least ONE of Benji, Schwartz, Mack, or Gipson. Time will tell if we made the right calls. The one thing that I didn't like was when we traded back in the third round. I believe that was the round we had back to back picks, and I was excited at seeing who we would get...and then I saw "trade!" and I was furious. I wanted Connor Cook with one of those picks, and I thought it was perfect. Hopefully I'm wrong. Like a lot of your post. Hope this may help your opinion. Mack & Gipson were both lost by Farmers poor contract negotiations on his own home grown talent. Mack given a matching contract offer paper that Jags dictated his value. Gipson was given a 2nd round tender instead of a contract cause Farmer questioned his worth coming off knee issue. Farmer had time to fix his wrong,never tried. As for back to back picks. That was in the 3rd round. Hue got his much needed RT in S.Coleman#176. Jets taking Hackenberg in 2nd rd. pushed Hues hand in 3rd with pick #177. Luckily we were able to find a trading partner to trade down with Carolina cause Kessler nor Cook was worth value #177 imo. After all the pre draft visits with Cook i thought he was Hues pick also. But Hue had both options still at #193. Think Hues Cal background on Kessler & Cooks background took over from there. Cook went in 4th or 5th to who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I believe Cook went to Raiders in 4th or maybe 5th round. I didn't understand the pick, and God help our front office and coaches if Cook somehow turns out to be a stud and Cody flunk out. The good news is that Cook is obviously behind Carr (the OTHER guy I was screaming for), so we're not really going to see him play this year barring injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Kosar was impressed with how the qb's were doing in camp, and said RGIII was doing phenomally. That's good enough for me to not worry about the qb situation much. I wasn't high on Cook - just seemed like he wasn't a fit for some reason...personality/people skills.. .whatever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Bernie watched one practice weeks ago... and, this just in, he's a homer looking to stay involved with the team. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/19210/robert-griffin-iiis-offseason-work-lacked-that-wow-moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 and yet, he's pretty well known for being blatantly honest with his opinions...so there's that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 The good news is that Cook is obviously behind Carr (the OTHER guy I was screaming for), so we're not really going to see him play this year barring injury. Now that the Wammy is firmly in place so you say there's a chance? When does optimism start?=training camp. Live football with pads. All signs point to the QB we don't have. Well that's when it starts. Where & If do all these drafted & UDFA fit? Well again that's when it starts. How many of the Farmer Farm survive the new plan over the chosen plan? That's when it starts. Am Jacked!! All in knowing pieces will still be missing but theirs always next year to keep finding those pieces. Now for the optimism buzz kill. Lock Jimmy up for 2-3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 As for RG3... we've already seen him. Don't forget he started his 2nd season instructing his HC and OC to shit can all the Baylor-ish sets and plays that brought much of his Rookie success. He was going to play from the pocket... and he couldn't handle it. Has RG matured? Is he ready to accept playing however the staff wants him to play? Maybe... But is he capable of playing Baylor ball anymore? Did he gain pocket wisdom while on the shelf for a year? Maybe there is something "to see." I agree RG3 had to come back down to earth. However, as we previously discussed - Mike Shanahan clarified that stuff about RG3 allegedly wanting to be a cement shoe'd pocket passer all of a sudden was nothing more than RG3 telling the coaching staff exactly what Daniel Snyder wanted. The words might have come out of the puppet's mouth but the were created by the one paying the salaries of the franchise QB and coaching staff. I don't think RG3 wanted to be any more stationary than Cam Newton or Russell Wilson have had to be. For that matter, Tom Landry never wanted Roger Staubach scrambling all over the place but he realized something special unfolded when he did that. Some coaches understand you can't re-wire a QB. A lot of exciting history would have been re-written if Landry made Roger Staubach be Craig Morton instead. You can't make a Bernie Kosar out of a Cam Newton any more than you can make a Dan Marino or Tom Brady out of a Russell Wilson. I remembered hearing NFL analysts questioning how Randall Cunningham would work in a WCO vrs his previous offense in Philly. Well, he went 15-1 with the highest passer ratings of his career. Joe Theisman, who had to begin his pro football career up in Canada was allegedly never going to be a worthwhile NFL QB at 6'0" tall operating out of an NFL pocket. So what became important in order to make it happen for Theisman? Joe Gibbs, the Hogs, and bootleg/waggle passes outside the pocket offset with 5-7 step drops timing patterns to the post or flag/pylon. Riggins provided the solid ground game. Not that much of a contrast with the offense designed for RG3 in his rookie year. A lot of bootleg/waggle passes thrown outside of the pocket balanced with Alfred Morris' reliability on the ground. Deep passes to a deep third came from 5-7 step drops in the pocket. Hue can do a lot of the same things for RG3 IF he isn't the football version of Yao Ming - made in China stayed on sidelines. Like you alluded to above Tour with Baylor ball - the monkey-wrench question I have is how big is that IF? Hue kept emphasizing well rested and healthy when we signed RG3. If not, I think Connor Shaw brings a poor man's RG3 in terms of how quick/mobile he is. I'd like the arm to be a little stronger but I've seen Andy Dalton's arm get way stronger in 2015 so my guess is it's just as doable for Shaw. I think we can get compatible styles working here with these 2. That 25 TD to 1 INT ratio in the SEC Shaw had in an offense Spurrier has been known to hang his QBs out to dry with suspect pass pro has me more intrigued with Shaw than I am with Kessler at this time. We shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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