The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 The NBA has now adopted a rule that puts the best 8 teams in each conference into the playoffs regardless of their division, and those 8 will be seeded according to best record. "Division winners" will no longer receive a higher seed just for winning a division. With the fact that some people are saying that it is a travesty that a 7-8-1 Panther team should be allowed into the playoffs over a 10-6 team just because the Panthers won their "division"....and thus are saying that the division winners shouldn't be automatically entitled to a playoff spot. That the teams with the best records should go in. Then I thought.....why have Divisions at all if that were the case. Just have a 16 team AFC and a 16 team NFC and let the 6 with the best record in each conference make the playoffs. Keep the byes for the two with the best record... This makes a certain amount of sense to me......but then I thought....what about scheduling. Eliminating the divisions could mean eliminating the home and home games against current division opponents. And it eliminates playing one division from the other conference and one from you own conference. How would scheduling be handled if there were no divisions? First, I though.....just have a team play all of the other 15 teams in their conference, plus one from the other conference. (maybe according to standing....the #1 AFC team plays the #1 NFC team, #2 plays #2 etc.). But then that would mean that decades could actually go by before you may play certain teams from the other conference. Then I thought.....keep 4 games against the other Conf......but play them in "Pods". #s1-4 with the best record from the previous year to play #s 1-4 from the other conf. #5-8 play #5-8. #9-12 play 9-12. #s 13-16 play 13-16. That would certainly perhaps increase "parity". Then what about intraconference games. You would need to play 12. Also...what about rivalries. Perhaps there should still be some "Designated Rivals" where you would play a home and home game each year. Maybe not the same one every year. Rotate rivalries among say the current division rival set up. The Browns say would play the Steelers home and home one year, then the Bengals the next year, then the Ravens. Something like that. In the next post I will explore what the Brown schedule under such a system may look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 It works in european sports, and there are plenty of rivalries. They tend to be more organic, rather than forced (by being in the same conference). Either way, the browns would have a rivalry with the ravens, naturally, and the bengals. Steelers? Not so sure, maybe geographically. Patriots will have a rivalry with the colts and seahawks the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 So, how about doing something like this.....break up the AFC and NFC into "Pods" based on records from the previous seasons. Here is what the Pods would look like this year based on 2014 records: NFC Pod A Seahawks Cowboys Packers Cardinals NFC Pod B Lions Eagles 49ers Panthers NFC Pod C Saints Vikings Falcons Giants NFC Pod D Rams Bears Redskins Bucs AFC Pod A Patriots Broncos Steelers Colts AFC Pod B Bengals Ravens Texans Chiefs AFC Pod C Chargers Bills Dolphins Browns AFC Pod D Jets Jags Raiders Titans So, the Browns being placed in Pod C, a proposed Browns schedule could look like this: 4 games vs. Pod C of the other conference: Saints, Vikings, Falcons, Giants 3 games vs. Pod C of the same conference: Bills, Dolphins, Chargers 2 games vs. Designated Rival.....lets say this year it is the Steelers. 4 games vs. one of the other Pods of the AFC....lets say for this Pod D: Jets, Jags, Raiders, Titan 3 games vs. teams in same Pod as this years designate rival: Patriots, Broncos, Colts. So...OK, this may obviously drastically complicate the scheduling. But it does accomplish pitting the good teams vs. good teams and bad teams vs bad teams. and the mediocre vs. the mediocre. "Parity" could then prevail....unless a team is just so good or so bad that it doesn't move out of its "pod" from year to year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 It works in european sports, and there are plenty of rivalries. They tend to be more organic, rather than forced (by being in the same conference). Either way, the browns would have a rivalry with the ravens, naturally, and the bengals. Steelers? Not so sure, maybe geographically. Patriots will have a rivalry with the colts and seahawks the next few years. The rivalries here are usually definitely geographic base. Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh and vs. Cincinnati definitely are. The Ravens rivalry is "history based" more than geographic. What could be tweeked is the development of rivalries now that are not so frequent because of placement of teams in different conferences. The obvious natural rivalry of the Jets/Giants say...or the Raiders/49ers (though not as much of the Raiders move to LA)....and the Redskins/Ravens. or same state rivals like Cowboys/Texans. Rams/Chiefs Dolphins/Bucs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like the division set up as is. Division winners should go into the playoffs, regardless of record. Whether they should get home-field over a WC with a better record is the question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Some of the bigger rivalries here come from teams competing against each other over a period of time. So Patriots and Ravens, have both been going after the AFC crown for years/decades now, and would be (are?) big rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like the division set up as is. Division winners should go into the playoffs, regardless of record. Whether they should get home-field over a WC with a better record is the question... Spoilsport. Old Fogey. Guy in a rut.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Some of the bigger rivalries here come from teams competing against each other over a period of time. So Patriots and Ravens, have both been going after the AFC crown for years/decades now, and would be (are?) big rivals. Yea, to me, that is NOT a rivalry. That is just two teams that happen to be good at the same time. I used this before: there is NO real rivalry between the Colts and Patriots. They just by happenstance were good at the same time. There was no real rivalry back in the 80s between the Browns and Broncos. They just happened to be the best two teams in the AFC at the time. Do the Cowboys and the Steelers have a real rivalry? No....they just happen to be the two teams that have played each other most in the Super Bowl. Most rivalries are backyard varieties....you compete over the same territory sometimes. Browns/Steelers compete for the Youngstown area. Browns/Bengals for Columbus. Proximity helps. Similarity of lifestyle helps. Cleveland and Pittsburgh/Cincy/Buffalo have that. Not so much Cleveland and NY/San Fran/Boston (Oakland? Maybe). There is no similarity between Boston and Indy....other than that the two cities have had great QBs at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Spoilsport. Old Fogey. Guy in a rut.. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm in a rut too, I don't like changing out of a division format. The NFL is obviously unique, as the 16 game schedule makes every game mean something. 3/8 of the schedule is in the division and heightens the importance. To me, games against Tennessee, Jacksonville, Miami for example just don't have any appeal, probably never will. NBA, NHL, MLB have so many games that it does make some sense to eliminate divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx214 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Divisions suck when you get stuck in one that has the best teams in the league... If the Browns were in one of the south divisions.... we would all love them... Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Also, don't overestimate the fact that a team with the record like the Panthers winning the division happens very infrequently. Since '02 it's only happened twice and both times that team actually won (seahawks, panthers). I'm with the idea that keep divisions the way they are and division winners get playoffs, but home field is determined by record. I also really like the way the NFL is set up now because it affords a ton of parity in playoff teams. Gipper could fill this in better, but it's something like 2-4 teams from the previous year of playoffs aren't in and new teams are. That has a lot to do with the way scheduling is made up currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm in a rut too, I don't like changing out of a division format. The NFL is obviously unique, as the 16 game schedule makes every game mean something. 3/8 of the schedule is in the division and heightens the importance. To me, games against Tennessee, Jacksonville, Miami for example just don't have any appeal, probably never will. NBA, NHL, MLB have so many games that it does make some sense to eliminate divisions. OK, this thread does not ask you if you want to stay with the current setup or switch. It asks what you think of the proposed set up...how you think it would work. How it could be tweeked. You are to make an assumption that a non-divisional setup would be in existed.......and how it could be implemented. It is obviously for shits and giggles as it would never be adopted. (though....like I said....some....including probably team owners, are not happy with the losing teams making the postseason....so something could happen in that regard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Spoilsport. Old Fogey. Guy in a rut.. Yes, we are. You are to make an assumption that a non-divisional setup would be in existence............... Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Also, don't overestimate the fact that a team with the record like the Panthers winning the division happens very infrequently. Since '02 it's only happened twice and both times that team actually won (seahawks, panthers). I'm with the idea that keep divisions the way they are and division winners get playoffs, but home field is determined by record. Don't underestimate the fact that owners hate that those losing team making the playoffs even those few times. I also really like the way the NFL is set up now because it affords a ton of parity in playoff teams. Gipper could fill this in better, but it's something like 2-4 teams from the previous year of playoffs aren't in and new teams are. That has a lot to do with the way scheduling is made up currently. My proposal could actually create even more parity. You would have the 4 winningest teams in one conference playing the 4 winningest teams in another conference....plus they would automatically play the 3 winningest teams from their own conference. In other words, the 8 winningest teams in the league one year would be playing a round robin the next year......and the same for the 8 losingest teams. Some teams are definitely going to slide down and some are definitely going to slide up. Does that seem fair? No.....but then it is not supposed to be, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like it the way it is now. Football has far fewer games than basketball obviously, so having the same type of playoff structure wouldn't be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like it the way it is now. Football has far fewer games than basketball obviously, so having the same type of playoff structure wouldn't be good. Any one that wants to say "I like it the way it is now" Just shut the fuck up. You are just being lazy and not responding to what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 If you went with the pod setup, you might run into problems with teams tanking towards the end of the season to get into an easier pod for the next year. You'd also run into the argument from consistently good teams that they are being punished with tougher schedules for being successful. I think the best option would be to keep the divisions but remove the seeding, if that hasn't been done already, and/or requiring at least a .500 record to make it into the playoffs. However, as jrb noted, it is infrequent and hasn't reached a point where any changes are really necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Like it the way it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Me, too DH... what do you like best about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 If you went with the pod setup, you might run into problems with teams tanking towards the end of the season to get into an easier pod for the next year. You'd also run into the argument from consistently good teams that they are being punished with tougher schedules for being successful. I think the best option would be to keep the divisions but remove the seeding, if that hasn't been done already, and/or requiring at least a .500 record to make it into the playoffs. However, as jrb noted, it is infrequent and hasn't reached a point where any changes are really necessary. Like I said...the owners of NFL teams that go 10-6 while a 7-9 record makes it may not agree with you that it hasn't reached a point where a change in necessary. And while you are right about the pod situation....teams tank now for draft positions. And, again, while you say "lose the seeding" what do you mean? That the divisional setup should be kept for scheduling only, but that for determining who makes the playoffs only the 6 best teams make it? If that were the case last year only 1 change would have happened: Carolina out, Eagles in. But then....if you win a division yet don't get a playoff berth....what is the point of having a division? Again, just scheduling? AFC would have been fine, looking like this: New England Patriots (1) 12 4 0 East Champion head-to-head record Denver Broncos (2) 12 4 0 West Champion Pittsburgh Steelers (3) 11 5 0 North Champion head-to-head record Indianapolis Colts (4) 11 5 0 South Champion Cincinnati Bengals (5) 10 5 1 Wild Card #1 Baltimore Ravens (6) 10 6 0 Wild Card #2 Houston Texans 9 7 0 conference win percentage Kansas City Chiefs 9 7 0 head-to-head record San Diego Chargers 9 7 0 head-to-head record Buffalo Bills 9 7 0 Miami Dolphins 8 8 0 Cleveland Browns 7 9 0 New York Jets 4 12 0 Jacksonville Jaguars 3 13 0 win percentage in common games Oakland Raiders 3 13 0 Tennessee Titans 2 14 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 NFC came out like this: Tm W L T Position Reason Seattle Seahawks (1) 12 4 0 West Champion conference win percentage Green Bay Packers (2) 12 4 0 North Champion conference win percentage Dallas Cowboys (3) 12 4 0 East Champion Carolina Panthers (4) 7 8 1 South Champion Arizona Cardinals (5) 11 5 0 Wild Card #1 head-to-head record Detroit Lions (6) 11 5 0 Wild Card #2 Philadelphia Eagles 10 6 0 San Francisco 49ers 8 8 0 New Orleans Saints 7 9 0 head-to-head record Minnesota Vikings 7 9 0 Atlanta Falcons 6 10 0 conference win percentage New York Giants 6 10 0 head-to-head record St. Louis Rams 6 10 0 Chicago Bears 5 11 0 Washington Redskins 4 12 0 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2 14 0 Carolina would have finished behind the 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Like it the way it is now. You mean with my dick in your mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Me, too DH... what do you like best about it? His dick in your mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Tradition. What traditions the two of you have in the privacy of your own bedroom is between you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 When have they even been a huge problem outside of last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 When have they even been a huge problem outside of last year? I would have to study it, but I think that just about every year or maybe every other year one team with a better record than another is left out of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Well, here is the study. I only went back to 2000 to determine if one team got into the playoffs over another with a better record. What I found was that it is starting to happen more frequently. Going to 4 divisions is the likely cause of this phenomena: 2014 Panther 7-8-1 got in over Eagles 10-6 2013 Packers 8-7-1 got in over Cardinals 10-6 2011 Broncos 8-8 got in over Titans 9-7 2010 Seahawks 7-9 got in over Bucs and Giants both 10-6 2008 Chargers 8-8 got in over Pats 11-5 and Jets 9-7 ........Cardinals 9-7 got in over Falcons 11-5 and Buccaneers also 9-7 but who would have gotten in with better conf. record 2003 Ravens 10-6 got in over Dolphins 10-6 (but better conf. record.) So, the switch to 4 divisions IS creating the phenomena of teams with better records staying home while teams with lesser records make the playoffs. And, by the way this is NOT "Tradition"......per se. This started in 2002 when the league went to those 4 division setup. The question is: is this what the NFL Owners want......or are these unintended consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Your Fantasy is showing, Gip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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