Legacy Fan Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I am guessing, since the Bible has been translated so many times, no one knows what the original words were that some dudes wrote down. Probably not a good idea considering the 10 commandments were written in Hebrew and are still part of the Torah. Despite Palestine's (and Iran, and Syria, and Germany, and... ) current efforts people who read, write, & speak Hebrew are still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Probably not a good idea considering the 10 commandments were written in Hebrew and are still part of the Torah. Despite Palestine's (and Iran, and Syria, and Germany, and... ) current efforts people who read, write, & speak Hebrew are still around. It has been translated and edited numerous times. Sections were removed by the church at points in history. We probably do not have the exact story book that was written down hundreds of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yeah but not the Torah. Where the 10 commandments are found. Which is at the center of what we are talking about (I thought). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm not trying to dominate anyone. I'm thinking that the best way to reduce gun crime isn't necessarily to make sure everybody has a gun. Back to this point (& the OP topic)- Nobody is saying that we should make sure everybody has a gun. Just that if you're responsible, you shouldn't be restricted in owning one and what you want. That's one of the effective points about concealed carry. Criminal's don't know, and they're less likely to act. It's different from open carry (another discussion entirely and while I support any American's decision to open carry, I think it's dumb. Guess which person was killed first in that DC Navy shipyard shooting a while back? The only MP who was openly carrying his weapon. Opposition eliminated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Let's not frame the gun discussion in only people vs people, eh? Outside of hunting, there's protection from wild animals. Mountain lions/bears/wolves/anything rabid/alligators/boar/coyotes/rattlensakes/... eh....er....sasquatches... out in the wilderness. Or even on a farm. Not many folks want to live their lives in a little rental room in the city, next to a police dept. And it is well known in outdoor circles, that 3 gunshots is a audio version of "HELP, I'M HERE" to someone lost/injured in the outdoors.. But being responsible for your own self-defense is a right that cannot be taken away. When guns are taken from a society, crime skyrockets. Look at Australia. Criminals won't give up their guns, nor will they register them. So any attempt to take them away from everybody is worse than dangerous. Extremely ignorant and pie in the sky... or there's ulterior motives involved. Take yer pick. "Both" is also a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Let's not frame the gun discussion in only people vs people, eh? Outside of hunting, there's protection from wild animals. Mountain lions/bears/wolves/anything rabid/alligators/boar/coyotes/rattlensakes/... eh....er....sasquatches... out in the wilderness. Or even on a farm. Not many folks want to live their lives in a little rental room in the city, next to a police dept. And it is well known in outdoor circles, that 3 gunshots is a audio version of "HELP, I'M HERE" to someone lost/injured in the outdoors.. But being responsible for your own self-defense is a right that cannot be taken away. When guns are taken from a society, crime skyrockets. Look at Australia. Criminals won't give up their guns, nor will they register them. So any attempt to take them away from everybody is worse than dangerous. Extremely ignorant and pie in the sky... or there's ulterior motives involved. Take yer pick. "Both" is also a choice. The whole animal defence thing is an great point and it's something that my fledgling philosophy needs to deal with. Obviously you need to be able to defend yourself AND your family if a bear attacks. That being said, I suspect - please tell me if I'm wrong - that the larger amounts of violent crime of any kind occur in the city. And not just in total, I suspect per capita it's higher in urban areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The whole animal defence thing is an great point and it's something that my fledgling philosophy needs to deal with. Obviously you need to be able to defend yourself AND your family if a bear attacks. That being said, I suspect - please tell me if I'm wrong - that the larger amounts of violent crime of any kind occur in the city. And not just in total, I suspect per capita it's higher in urban areas. You just deal with different sorts of crazy. I lived outside of Camden, NJ growing up. You can be a victim of crime at any time of the day and it will likely be a thug. The flipside is that some meth junkie could find you broken down on the side of a rural road. Both situations are equally dangerous. My wife and I were broken down on the side of the road in Mingo County, WV. We were on our way to her grandparents' house and the car died in a big way (radiator blew; piece of shit Eclipse). No cell service. We had to start walking back towards where we knew there was a gas station. Three very sketchy guys in a car pulled up and asked what we were up to. I said we were broken down but that we were walking to our "friend's house up the road". Guy in the passenger seat just straight up said that they would kick the shit out of my wife if we didn't give up her purse and my wallet. I drew on them and they tore out of there. Had I not had the gun,it could have ended horribly. If some people had their way, they would have preferred I fist fought with three guys (god knows what weapons they had in the car) on a rural road with my wife in tow. To wrap it up, we did make it to the gas station. The people there were nice and we were able to get a tow truck. My wife was scared to death during the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm not trying to dominate anyone. I'm thinking that the best way to reduce gun crime isn't necessarily to make sure everybody has a gun. Then in realistic terms what do you think would actually be the best way to reduce gun crime? As you say the gun crime is much higher in areas that have much stricter regulations, right? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Then in realistic terms what do you think would actually be the best way to reduce gun crime? As you say the gun crime is much higher in areas that have much stricter regulations, right? WSS Short term, I honestly don't know. But long term, looking at the motivation behind the crimes would be where I'd start. If you have a gang fight, then it doesn't matter whether it's with guns, bats, clubs, knives or whatever, outlawing everything they would use is pointless. So, why do they commit these crimes? Off the top of my head, gun crimes are generally related to getting something they don't have, like robbing a store or mugging someone. So then why do they feel they need to do that? Two reasons - either they can't get the money legally or they don't want to get the money legally. The first one needs to be addressed by having a better economy, where people can actually have a decent life. The second one is a little harder to resolve, and involves having a better moral grounding for people, making them realise that to get nice things you need to actually work at life. As long as people feel like they can just take a gun, go some place, get what they want and then get away with it, they won't stop. Not easy, and certainly not achievable any time soon, it'd take a long time for anything implemented to take effect, because it's a ground up strategy. And yes, I'm being idealistic - but someone needs to be. If everyone just starts accepting what crime there is as inevitable, then not much will be done to reduce it. So that's my political-sounding answer - how about everyone else? Whether you're pro-gun or anti-gun, clearly we need to deal with the nutcases ruining/ending life for everyone. I've heard tougher sentences for people leaving their guns accessible - sure, why not, but I doubt that'd end it on it's own. What else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 More funding for mental health in the U.S. would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Logic - that's how I felt during that drive across Louisiana to Texas. Engine conks out, you're stranded, wrong people drive by... That's horrific - glad you had your gun. That kind of thing might only happen once or twice in a lifetime. That actually did happen to you and your Wife...scary stuff. But NJ? Wrong turn into a low life part of town? Gun control on good solid citizens isn't the answer to any of these concerns. And I've never met anybody who doesn't think that criminals and mental health risks should ever have access to a gun. But, it keeps happening. Thanks for nothing, obamao and holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Logic - that's scary shit, and I don't want to pretend I have all the answers. I honestly don't know what you would have done without a gun at this moment. But how could you be sure that the guys in the car didn't have a gun and it would result in a shoot out? I guess you don't and you have to take your chances anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Logic - that's scary shit, and I don't want to pretend I have all the answers. I honestly don't know what you would have done without a gun at this moment. But how could you be sure that the guys in the car didn't have a gun and it would result in a shoot out? I guess you don't and you have to take your chances anyway. Would you rather be in a shoot out with a possibility of you getting out alive or just being a victim dependent upon the mercy of people who drive around looking for people to rob/injure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I would rather chance my getting shot or injured instead of hoping that degenerates only decide to rob me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I know that I mentioned before the situation I had in D.C. where a friend was shot. Goes back to the concept of depending on the mercy of horrible people. I was 19 and used to be in a punk band (young, stupid, and naive kids wandering around). We played at a club called The Nation in D.C. It was in a very sketchy part of D.C. but we didn't consider D.C. to be any worse than Camden. Again, dumb kids. My friend Josh had to go to an ATM machine. While we were at the ATM machine, two guys pulled up in a car. Passenger gets out and immediately shows us a gun. I remember that the driver put the emergency lights on....during a robbery. I had left my wallet with my gear but Josh clearly had his wallet. Josh handed his wallet over and stepped back. The guy took his wallet and then shot him while running to the car. I had reflexively stepped back behind something so I think that is what kept him from taking a shot at me. I yelled for someone to call the cops. I didn't want to leave him because I didn't know if they would double back. A lady living in the neighborhood called the cops. Josh lost a hunk of intestine out of the deal but is doing pretty well now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Chris - you have no chance to defend yourself without a gun against hoodlums who commit these kind of crimes: **************************************** About 567,000 results (0.28 seconds) Search Results Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia ... en.wikipedia.org/.../Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_... They were raped, tortured, and murdered after being kidnapped the evening of January 6, ... charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison. ..... "Critics say news media ignoring Knoxville couple slaying". Alex Linder - Leonard Pitts - Riverbend Maximum Security ... Vehicle found after man fatally shot in New Jersey mall carjacking ... www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/.../man-shot-killed-in-nj-mall-carjacking/ Dec 16, 2013 - A Range Rover stolen after a man was shot and killed in front of his wife... two suspects who confronted the couple in the parking garage of the ... Husband Shot, Killed in Mall Carjacking - ABC News - Go.com abcnews.go.com/.../jersey-mall-shooting-husband-shot-killed-carjacking-21... Dec 16, 2013 - A manhunt is underway in New Jersey after couple attacked while Christmas shopping. Mall at Short Hills victim defending wife from carjackers when shot ... www.nydailynews.com/.../hunt-underway-suspects-short-hills-mall-shootin... Dec 16, 2013 - Dustin Friedland, 30, was shot and killed during a violent carjacking at the .... mourned the handsome young couple who regularly came by for ... They Did Some Really Nasty Things - truTV www.trutv.com/library/crime/.../they-did-some-really-nasty-things.html A Tennessee couple is brutally tortured and murdered in a Knoxville home. ... In the wee hours of that Sunday morning, Newsom and Christian were carjacked at ... New Jersey Mall Carjack Suspects Plead Not Guilty to Felony ... www.nbcnewyork.com › news › local Jan 8, 2014 - Four men charged in the fatal carjacking of a young lawyer at an upscale... The carjackers confronted the couple and Friedland was shot in the ... Lawyer killed in mall carjacking was protecting wife | New York Post nypost.com/2013/12/16/man-fatally-shot-at-nj-mall-idd/ Dec 16, 2013 - The couple was toting so many bags, they looked as if “they were trying to get all their Christmas shopping done in one night,” a source at the ... Busted NJ carjack suspects have long rap sheets | New York Post nypost.com/2013/12/.../four-arrested-in-deadly-nj-mall-carjacki... by Kevin Sheehan Dec 21, 2013 - Authorities refused to name the triggerman who shot Friedland... her Newark neighborhood before he moved out a couple of years ago. “I don't ... snopes.com: Murders of Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian www.snopes.com › Home › Politics › Crime When the couple had failed to return by the following morning, their parents notified ...gagged and blindfolded; he was dragged outside and shot in the back of his ... Boyd was convicted in federal court of being an accessory to the carjacking ... NJ Mall Carjacking Victim Identified; Range Rover Found In Newark ...newyork.cbslocal.com/.../authorities-nj-mall-carjackin... Dec 16, 2013 Friedland was shot in the head, Murray said. ... at one of thecouple's favorite restaurants — Zafra Kitchen ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Channon Christian/Chris Newsome case is fucking vile. I remember reading about this. Those involved should be burned to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Channon Christian/Chris Newsome case is fucking vile. I remember reading about this. Those involved should be burned to death. I hadn't heard of the case so I had a quick look. I now feel physically sick. I agree, death penalty is too good for them. Fuck, burning to death is probably too good for them. They poured bleach down her throat while she was alive, to remove the DNA? I'm not generally a fan of Shari'a law, but there's a good case for the offenders having to suffer the same thing. Then slowly suffocating in a garbage compactor. Perhaps they should do like John McClane, but have to walk in to down town Islamabad wearing a sign saying "Fuck Allah, I'm off for a pork chop and a pint" and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 More funding for mental health in the U.S. would be a good start. I have just about 0 amount of respect for the mental health sciences as they stand today. I really don't think these people no shit from shinola. I guess we could incarcerate anyone who seems a little bit fucked up... Open the floodgates the civil rights litigors in about 2 seconds. WSS WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have just about 0 about of respect for the mental health sciences as they stand today. I really don't think these people no shit from shinola. I guess we could incarcerate anyone who seems a little bit fucked up... Open the floodgates the civil rights litigors in about 2 seconds. WSS WSS I worked with therapists and social workers while working juvenile corrections. They are for the most part totally worthless because there is zero money in it. There are people in the profession who aren't fucking dumb but they demand a premium. Throw more money around and you may attract those types to jobs where they can actually help the type of fucking loons who would shoot up a mall before they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Side note: therapists and social workers should be nowhere near criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Side note: therapists and social workers should be nowhere near criminals. Guess who is "rehabilitating" them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Guess who is "rehabilitating" them? Man, it ends up being a fucking mess. We would get newbie therapists and the criminal shit heads would play them like a fiddle. We lost two female therapists because they started blowing some of the juvies. One of them got a bigger surprise when she discovered that the kid had herpes. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 There are some jobs I just don't think I could ever do. Especially considering what they get paid, idk how anyone does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I worked with therapists and social workers while working juvenile corrections. They are for the most part totally worthless because there is zero money in it. There are people in the profession who aren't fucking dumb but they demand a premium. Throw more money around and you may attract those types to jobs where they can actually help the type of fucking loons who would shoot up a mall before they do it. Never try to teach a pig to sing. It waste your time and annoys the pig. Read what you said fucking loons who would just as soon should you as look at you. Now honestly tell me that it's only Low salary that keeps people who can change this from doing it. Some folks, in my opinion, are just greedy and one of the reasons that society is fucked up. Everybody seems to think unless you are making twice the state average, which isn't all that much, that you have a right to be miserable. I don't see it. But still I don't think you can change these people into happy productive citizens anymore then you can train a homosexual to jerk off to photographs ofwomen. Much like my opinion of teachers. They make twice the state average yet the students aren't any better or worse off than they'd be if they had a grad assistant who cared about the job working for minimum wage. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 And Woodster not to fuck with you but could you give me what you consider the proper definition of black culture? I think when Cysko mentions it he's not talking about jazz and basketball. I think he's talking about an inner-city culture of welfare under performance and high truancy in school drugs violence gangsta rap single teenage parents and violent aggressive music all blamed on white society. I see similar shit among white East Ohio hillbillies as well and would not think to try and defend that type of culture. : I will grant you that there are some white ministers that preach fire and brimstone but if you reversed the race with Jeremiah Wright and had a white Minister screaming about the black man you think you were at a Klan rally and not in the church with the president sat with his family. I think if more mainstream citizens disavowed this type of shit the inner cities as well as the Appalachians would be much better off. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I just think it goes back to human nature. I want. The Bible refers to it as "dominion over the birds of the air and creatures on land & sea" (paraphrasing). Not a unique mentality to the bible. I want to eat that bird/cow/plant whatever. Oh, so does he. Now what? Logic, and morals allow for appropriation of said want. The absence of that even if for a split second causes the Cain/Abel situation. Pretty sure Abel probably wishes he had a rock too. The morality/logic, (whatever you want to call it) is an innate yet also learned behavior that must be continuously reinforced/taught. At a very basic level, the absence of that (for whatever enormous variety of reasons) in the black culture (what cysko is referring to) leads to what we presently recognize as crime. I'm not entirely convinced about the extensiveness of it (even when faced with Cysko's convincing stats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Never try to teach a pig to sing. It waste your time and annoys the pig. Read what you said fucking loons who would just as soon should you as look at you. Now honestly tell me that it's only Low salary that keeps people who can change this from doing it. Some folks, in my opinion, are just greedy and one of the reasons that society is fucked up. Everybody seems to think unless you are making twice the state average, which isn't all that much, that you have a right to be miserable. I don't see it. But still I don't think you can change these people into happy productive citizens anymore then you can train a homosexual to jerk off to photographs ofwomen. Much like my opinion of teachers. They make twice the state average yet the students aren't any better or worse off than they'd be if they had a grad assistant who cared about the job working for minimum wage. WSS Oh I definitely agree with you but people get a little jumpy when you suggest locking away people forever for being crazy. It is the most rational approach but sometimes rational hurts feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 An aside, I dealt with a ton of sex offenders. There is no fixing them. A bullet is all they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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