Al Queda Threats, Sequester, And Obammy Golfs

[FairHooker11]

cant get much clearer than that!

[FairHooker11]

I was gonna offer that I think the Al Queda threats / intercepted communiques are a red herring too!

 

Even in light of the (current up to date) news of a drone attack on 4 terrorists in Yemen.

 

What a great story to deflect from the scandals at home? the media / administration love affair is back!

 

have a nice day

[MLD Woody]

When the majority of posts are just "Liberals suck" "Obamao is Hitler" etc there isn't much of a point to spend the time making a post that has supporting references, etc because it is a useless battle. Cal has been proven wrong pretty conclusively multiple times and he'll do what he can to squirm out of it and not admit it. Add in all the "You're a stupid kid" and "Woodpecker" childish insult posts and I see no reason to give them a post that much higher intellectually than their own. It is a waste of time. I'll occasionally type out debate worthy posts, but its not like I ever get the same level back. Like you said, I took Cal's map and turned it around. Then I got a "source" that was a letter to the editor. Then I got a map of drug cartels which didn't have anything to do about what we were discussing. There's no point most of the time to give a long, debate worthy reply.

 

I wasn't bitching about your lack of stats. You are just trying to make the point you can win an election with just "free stuff". It would seen you have the burden of proof here, not me.

 

 

 

Your speech to text is pretty messed up today. Do you have a cold?

[Westside Steve]

Ha. You are correct in that.

Sometimes I neglect to edit this shit as quickly as I should. But just keep in mind who you are actually crabbing about.

 

and, as I always try to do, I try to avoid things like every or all or only.

 

I just think that when the majority wants free shit and the minority pays the taxes that weights and election.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And for the record I include myself in that as well. I've disagreed with Bob about the unions but let me tell you that if Musicians Union made sure I got a lifetime pension and couldn't really be fired or replaced and the taxpayers we're picking up the tab I'd probably be pro union too.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

There's a musicians union?

[Westside Steve]

Yes there is. It used to have some power even though that's pretty much gone now. The big boys saw some better shit but most of us local musicians just paid dues even though at one point we got stiffed and the Union made the club owner cough up the money. Pretty funny he refused to pay us because I did a disco sucks routine and his place was a disco as well as a rock club. We got together before a panel of octogenarian Italian American musicians who asked him what did the boys say that was offensive? He said disco sucks. The old paisan said pay the boys. But many many years ago I believe in the 70's there was a Musicians Union strike which affected the real guys out in Hollywood in New York. I remember The Smothers Brothers show theme song was sung acapella for a time.

 

the Union exists still today but I don't think any live music venues give a shit so...

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Sees no reason to post his own legit opinions because....

 

nope. bullhockey.

 

It's another thing libs do most all the time - they pick what sources are allowed, and they

pick the definitions of words, then they get all emotional and woodpeckerish about

being disagreed with. Anything that doesn't fit the pouty, "anti" narrative is bashed, ignored, etc.

 

I know I consider Mexico a hell hole. And the vast amount of geography that the drug cartels

control is one of the most important elements that I use to form that opinion. And I consider hell holes

third world countries. And I don't give a rat's rear end about the redefining of the term liberal wise.

 

And, btw, the editorial I linked to, simply referenced the author's opinions, which mirrored mine, and

saved me typing. Libs do that too - they demand scientific studies if you disagree with them, but if

they disagree with you, why, they don't go with their own criteria. They go with quotes from journalists

they have on their side of the fence, they go with personal insults, and they get mad when other folks

ask about those scientific studies. Weird.

[The Cysko Kid]

A good example of that is heck swearing up and down statistics on global warming are infallible and true 100% of the time. But when confronted with statistics that black people commit more violent crimes, abortions and child abuse then suddenly statistics are invalid. They don't tell the whole story, they are misleading etc etc etc...which is it? Statistics are valid or not? I guess it depends on how much you like the issue.

[MLD Woody]

A good example of that is heck swearing up and down statistics on global warming are infallible and true 100% of the time. But when confronted with statistics that black people commit more violent crimes, abortions and child abuse then suddenly statistics are invalid. They don't tell the whole story, they are misleading etc etc etc...which is it? Statistics are valid or not? I guess it depends on how much you like the issue.

They're pretty different things...

[MLD Woody]

Sees no reason to post his own legit opinions because....

 

nope. bullhockey.

 

It's another thing libs do most all the time - they pick what sources are allowed, and they

pick the definitions of words, then they get all emotional and woodpeckerish about

being disagreed with. Anything that doesn't fit the pouty, "anti" narrative is bashed, ignored, etc.

 

I know I consider Mexico a hell hole. And the vast amount of geography that the drug cartels

control is one of the most important elements that I use to form that opinion. And I consider hell holes

third world countries. And I don't give a rat's rear end about the redefining of the term liberal wise.

 

And, btw, the editorial I linked to, simply referenced the author's opinions, which mirrored mine, and

saved me typing. Libs do that too - they demand scientific studies if you disagree with them, but if

they disagree with you, why, they don't go with their own criteria. They go with quotes from journalists

they have on their side of the fence, they go with personal insults, and they get mad when other folks

ask about those scientific studies. Weird.

What are you talking about? Who are these phantom liberals you hate so much that are doing this? I made reference to what you are doing. You come back with "liberals this" and "liberals that". You really do have a problem. Have I done what you described? If so please show me. I'm guessing this will just lead to another example of you not understanding what makes a source good though.

[The Cysko Kid]

Statistics are statistics. Either you can argue them or you can't. Not only when it suits your purpose.

[MLD Woody]

Social science and science science aren't the same.

 

 

And to say "agree with all statistics or none" is stupid. It is easy to warp some stats into what you want. If you can take a stat and quickly turn it on its head then that's a bad sign. If you can't, and someone else can back it up and show its validity, then that's different.

[The Cysko Kid]

Well why don't you go to FBI.gov and see if you cam turn that stat on its head. Veteran spin man heck couldn't. That's why he took the stance he did. If he could have spun it he would have

[MLD Woody]

Your stance was what, that black people commit more crime because of their black culture?

[Browns149]

A good example of that is heck swearing up and down statistics on global warming are infallible and true 100% of the time. But when confronted with statistics that black people commit more violent crimes, abortions and child abuse then suddenly statistics are invalid. They don't tell the whole story, they are misleading etc etc etc...which is it? Statistics are valid or not? I guess it depends on how much you like the issue.

statistics are AWESOME when they prove your point of view, not so much when they disprove your point of view

[MLD Woody]

Except stats that say black people commit the largest percentage of crime don't prove they have an inferior culture. Just like a stat that says the majority of serial killers chew gum doesn't prove chewing gum makes you a murderer. Its causation vs correlation. It is not the same kind of stat that gets posted with global warming. Actual temperatures vs scientific models, different chemical readouts, water level changes, etc etc. All of which are uses by a global network of climatologists as the critique each discovery and revise their model and views.

[Westside Steve]

Maybe someone should take a stab at a definition of culture.

Maybe then we can decide if there's anything wrong with any subgroups culture.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Except stats that say black people commit the largest percentage of crime don't prove they have an inferior culture. Just like a stat that says the majority of serial killers chew gum doesn't prove chewing gum makes you a murderer. Its causation vs correlation. It is not the same kind of stat that gets posted with global warming. Actual temperatures vs scientific models, different chemical readouts, water level changes, etc etc. All of which are uses by a global network of climatologists as the critique each discovery and revise their model and views.

Maybe if you lived and worked with blacks in the Ghetto you would understand their culture white boy.

[MLD Woody]

The biggest thing I have against Cysko's culture rant was that he tied it all the way back to blacks in Africa. So even though it is totally not based on genetics, these two groups that literally have nothing in common but their skin car both have inferior cultures. That I guess over the few hundred years since slaves were forced here the one constant has been their inferior culture.... I'm not buying it.

[MLD Woody]

Maybe if you lived and worked with blacks in the Ghetto you would understand their culture white boy.

All blacks live in the ghetto? Or are you saying there is a blacks in the ghetto culture and a blacks not in the ghetto culture.

 

If you say that latter, this could be the first step to you realizing this isn't just a race thing.

[Westside Steve]

And you still haven't defined culture.

It seems as though you are saying that bad and sub par behavior in the 21st century can be blamed on something that happened in the 1800's and before.

If that is your position I'm not buying it.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

When did I say that?

[Westside Steve]

I said it seems as though.

2 posts back.

So you don't think slavery plays a major role in 2 days black culture in America? Or it does?

your argument cant just be anger at someone who pointed it out can it?

still waiting on your definition of culture. Does it begin in Africa does it begin when the slaves arrived to this continent?

 

Also I don't think anyone here is making the claim that the problems in black society are due to genetic inferiority. I think places with large concentrations of Negroes have been historically below average. I'm not claiming to know why that is. And I certainly wouldn't blame it on genetics.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Well, I think they've historically been at a disadvantage in America. You don't have to go back to slavery though. Civil rights movements were pretty recent. This along with living in a lot of worse off areas creates a recipe for crime, poor education, etc. Do whites with a family history of being in the lower class that live in the ghetto fair better in these stats than blacks?

 

I think its absurd to just say "black culture" and say that's that. Then to add Africans as an example... how does that have anything to do with the urban stats that have been brought up? Literally the only thing in common is genetics, not the culture.

 

We don't face any real oppression in any way as white males. We were all probably brought up in better situations. Its not just our "culture" that's the difference.

[Westside Steve]

Still waiting on a definition we can agree on. But it does seem Africa has been disadvantaged as far back as written history goes, correct? You can't blame slavery for that can you?

WSS

[MLD Woody]

I never did...

 

Africa's environment sucks. Humans originated there but spread out. It isn't very kind at promoting civilization I would say. When a large portion is desert and everything wants to kill you, not good.

 

I'm saying that counting any of this to "black culture" is Retarded, or wherever the hell Cysko was trying to go with that in the other thread

[VaporTrail]

I understand that you guys disagree with Woody, but can you try not projecting as much as you are? Some of these accusations are nowhere near the mark, and it's hard to have a conversation when everyone's just saying "Woody is a faggot."

 

I'll take a whack at Steve's question. Slavery was a contributor to the current situation in Africa where everything seems to be about a century behind the rest of the world. Slavery, however, was just one of the many facets of colonialism which is the ultimate reason things got so fucked up there. The places that resisted colonialism (and earlier, the Dark Ages and Crusades) were hubs of rich culture and scientific advancement under Islamic rule.

[calfoxwc]

Here's a nice article on the subject of poverty.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty

 

When I talk about the subculture in the black community (not restricted to the

black community, btw), I am referring to that subculture of "free stuff". As in, determining that it's good to just live on

the dole, because it's stupid to earn your living, when it will be handed to you.

 

I experienced that with some guys in the service. They happened to be black, and lived in

the neighborhoods with the mindset of gleaning free stuff in American life. Then, there is what is the majority that want to break free

of poverty. It's hard, when they don't have the ability to get those student loans for school, jobs aren't there,

and the neighborhoods are dangerous. And those who refuse personal responsibility, and refuse values like

work ethic, getting an education, etc... perpetuate the dangerous conditions in those neighborhoods. Which

perpetuate the lack of opportunities. What business wants to go there?

 

But, there are still those who reject the chance to learn a trade. Or go to school. Or enlist in the service. I knew

friends who SAID they enlisted, because that's the way out of those neighborhoods. They had the work ethic,

the determination to break out of it.

 

There are those who have the determination to stay in it. A minority, but a large minority.

 

If it was truly a matter of the influence of historical slavery, it would be overwhelmingly only relevent

to the black community - and that's certainly not the case.

 

Slaves were hard working, and oppressed. They were hard working after they were set free.

Racism surely has a part in hurting the opportunities of the black community in general. But the choice

to lay down, and be happy to be completely dependent on a living from the gov? That was a subcultural

choice.

 

I used to just listen to all sorts of friends back in my service days. Some were white, who still broke out of

that subculture that perpetuates itself through generations. Most were black. And they said what I'm talking about.

 

They tried to get friends to break out of those poverty stricken neighborhoods. They were ridiculed for it though, for

wanting to go to the service for an income. It wasn't for them. They didn't WANT to work. It was stupid.

 

It's the same thing as education. They were talking about friends who refused to work in school. It was

not cool, not "street".

 

And these friends? They worked hard as hell on their own, even outside of school, to learn. Listening to them,

man, I could have sworn they grew up in nice neighborhoods like I did.

 

but they didn't. Both sides were affected by racism. That isn't any kind of determining factor then. What was it?

 

The friends I had in the service, made a choice. Their own free will choice. That is what Dr. Sowell talks about.

 

And Bill Cosby. There are plenty of others. But there are plenty of those who get angry because they are called out

on their choice.

 

Exactly. And the Sharptons, and Jacksons, too many others, play on that, and declare it as "victimization" to

get votes by excusing the choices that subculture makes. There are black leaders in this country who

will say that there is no excuse to have no work ethic, and to simply choose to remain in that subculture.

 

There is no excuse for having no values that will work to better your situation in life. But having no values, and

refusing those values, is a killer.

 

That isn't from me, that's from my friends who lived it, broke out of it even before they left those neighborhoods.

 

My friend from Puerto Rico used to talk about the same thing. They were in *poverty*. But he couldn't convince them

to break out of it, and enlist with him. They were happy to stay right where they were.

. He was the guy I've mentioned before who used to send most of his paycheck

every time, back home. He wanted his two sisters to go to college. He was excellently

well spoken. He said I wouldn't be able to understand his friends back home, with their

slurring dialect and slang. That is one classy guy right there.

 

When we were on alert, 24? 48 hr? in SAC one of those years.... a msgt and I talked about a hell of a lot of stuff. ggg

 

He said there weren't any jobs. He said the same thing - Uncle Sam said he had a job for him, and the color

of his skin didn't matter. He lived in that poverty, amid racism that caused him to not get hired by some companies

that were hiring. He said he made a deal with Uncle Sam, and Uncle Sam sure kept his side of the deal.

 

He married, had kids, and lived in a really nice house and in a nice neighborhood. Went to college.
Got a degree, his Wife did too. And all his kids were going to college. One time he went back home,

he found out that several of his friends had been killed on the streets.

 

That's how I see it, but it doesn't come from me. It comes from my experiences with friends back in the day. Those conversations

taught me a hell of a lot about it all.