DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't see any of this as "race-baiting" whatsoever. I wonder what part you think is. I thought it was very measured. But the man can't say anything anymore. The reaction you guys have to him is visceral. It wouldn't matter if he told your mom that he liked her hat. In all my years following politics, I've never seen anything quite like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 "And then, finally, I think it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. You know, there's been talk about, should we convene a conversation on race? I haven't seen that be particularly productive when, you know, politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have. On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there's a possibility that people are a little bit more honest and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy." ...That's some race-baiting shit right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It is when he again says Martin "could have been his son".... because Martin is black, and he's black. And, upping the ante with "could have been me 35 years ago"... because Martin is also black, and did dope. And this trial was bogus, and it was NOT ABOUT RACE AT ALL. Then he proceeds to lever it with "judging people ...not on the color of their skin..." Step right up and slurp it up as you always do, cherry picker. The plain truth is, Obamao stepped in it before the trial, and now he's stirring it up. Pretty much pimping Martin for political gain. You don't think very prominent conservative media don't agree with me? Hell, even Jimmy Carter and Bill Cosby are on the same page as I am. It is NOT about race. Except for Obamao making it about race. It's his base, and he still wants their loyalty. You think Obamao's Holder INJustice dept will try Zimmerman? I say NO. Never happen, nothing is there, and now the FBI says their investigation says it isn't about race. Natually, the stupid dipsheet president runs his mouth on the opposite premise, again with no evidence whatsoever. Except that Martiin was black, and Zimmerman was not. Of course you don't get it. On purpose, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 very simply - the POTUS has spent FAR too much attention on this ONE case Dont you think? Obama being quick to mention "context" they intended to wring all the political mileage that they can. he says its not about race.... but it is in his mind! it all boils down to what side you take. If Obama were more honest... He shouldnt even be weighing in on this... imo so we get the same lame leadership from this administration - and I agree with Diehard.... it will create more division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yes, if there's one thing I've gathered from reading all of your opinions on this case it's that this has nothing to do with race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Yes, if there's one thing I've gathered from reading all of your opinions on this case it's that this has nothing to do with race. Get your head out of the sand heckofanostrich. One of the false hopes that white guilt liberals had in '08 was that this black god from Kenya would be the great uniter of race in this country, turns out he is the most racially divisive potus ever. Obama can't even get that right. Along with "Trayvon could have been my son" comment...from an article wrtten by a black... "However he has not governed as a post racial president. He has become the most racially divisive president in recent history. He has allowed himself and those in his administration to show preference for one group over another; allowed himself to become a black president rather than an American president. He took the side of a black professor against a white policeman, rather than remaining neutral and recognizing there were mistakes made on both sides. He automatically drew a conclusion without knowing all the facts. It was not his job to mediate the situation and use the power of the White House to pressure anyone." The author forgot to mention that Obama did say that he was not a black president, but rather everybodys president...another lie. He has allowed his Attorney General, Eric Holder to engage in selective prosecution, choosing not to prosecute members of the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation and hate speech at the Philadelphia polling places in 2008. He has sent a message to his supporters that he supports these black radical activists." http://al007italia.blogspot.com/2010/07/obama-most-racially-divisive-president.html What the fraud shoud be saying to unite is shut the fuck up to the likes of Al Sharpton who is calling for national "day of justice for Trayvon", Jesse Jackson calling for U.N. intervention, Stevie Wonders boycott, Martin Luther King III's call to boycott Florida orange juice.,, and the rest of those racist idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 I feel bad for respectable, black males, and I don't really mind the president starting a conversation on race, but I have sincere doubts that anything can actually be done. The problem that Obama, and many in the black community, are focusing on is that they're being unfairly racially profiled. I can somewhat relate to them because I've got bronze-ish skin and black, Asian hair, and my life as a 13 year old was rather miserable after 9/11. So why is this a problem? It's because racial profiling is not a cultural phenomenon, but a human phenomenon; a leftover relic from gaining evolutionary fitness through tribal communities. Tribe or pack mentality is a trait that is exhibited in multiple apex predators, including lions, hyenas, wolves, and humans. A tribe becomes strong by showing favor to group members and suspicion to outsiders. Furthermore, it's pretty well-established that people are bad at differentiating features among those of different racial groups than their own. The result is that when a white witness sees a white criminal, they might describe them as a redneck, a biker, or a punk. When that same witness sees a black criminal, the typical description would be a young, black male. I'm sure we've all locked our doors more often when it's a black guy walking past than when it's a white guy. This is simply the way humans are wired, so this talk of trying to fix the legal aspects around this seem somewhat misled, as this discussion paints the situation as an institutional problem rather than a problem with human nature. On the other hand, current laws assume equivalent treatment for equivalent situations, with the exception of abortion and rape laws. The life of a young, white male is not the same as the life of a young, black male, so an argument could be made that the laws need to reflect this inequity. Where do the legal lines get drawn up in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 very simply - the POTUS has spent FAR too much attention on this ONE case Dont you think? Obama being quick to mention "context" they intended to wring all the political mileage that they can. he says its not about race.... but it is in his mind! it all boils down to what side you take. If Obama were more honest... He shouldnt even be weighing in on this... imo so we get the same lame leadership from this administration - and I agree with Diehard.... it will create more division. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 That was an excellent post, Vapor, but you lost me on the last part about making laws reflect that inequity. I don't agree...but you are very correct in appraising it as a human phenomenon. Back in my fifth grade days, living in the suburb of Ohio, one of my best friends that year, was a new kid in school. Greg was funny, we were a lot alike, had fun teasing the girls, making them laugh, and playin softball. Later that year, I had just come back from a family funeral out of state, and had to make up a homework and a test and was late gettin out to the playground. I couldn't find ole Greg, until some other kids told me he was running out past the ball field. I go out there, and he was running for his life, being chased by oh, eight kids, with sticks and throwing stones at him He was terrified. They were calling him every name in the book. I got out there, and some kind of rage came over me. I was just a good kid, not big, funny, didn't know what fighting was, for cryin out loud. He came running through the trees, and from my football watching, I intercepted the crowd chasing him through two trees, and threw a body block into the pack. And Greg got away. What I hadn't thought about, was that the crowd got all hurt and banged up falling over me and each other, and I ended up getting stomped, kicked, and hit with those sticks myself, until they took off and chased him again. Greg was the only black kid in our school. Never happened again. But I was hated just as much as he was, after those kids came off suspension from school. Everything was fine, until the next year,we moved way out into the country in Ohio. Way out. Made new friends. There were three roughneck, psycho hillbilly types - brothers - who hated everybody, and all the kids were afraid of them. The psychoes ruled. And somehow, being from the "city", I was not one of their favorite people. But it was only a matter of them saying I didn't belong there, I was an outsider, a "rich" city kid. What did I do to deserve that? Nothin. Well, until the day they started knocking books out of kids' hands. I was sweet on the prettiest girl in our class. Her and her sister in the next grade up were daughters of a pastor in that area, and they were really cool. So, I ended up carrying her books for her out to the school bus. A couple of other guys told me to stop that, in dreadful tones. But, I just laughed and said she's great, and there's no way I'm stopping carrying that girl's books. So, it turns out, that the psycho hillbillies' families hated that pastor. And the psychoes hated those girls. And knocking the books out of other kids' hands was their specialty. And, knocking the books out of those two daughters' hands was at the top of their list, since they started with the book knocking. So, with me carryin her books, one psycho sauntered up and went to slap the books under my arm, but I held onto the books tightly, and the one psycho hillbillie hurt his hand, and the other two laughed at him.. And, in a fit of stupidity, I turned to them, and angrily told them to go away, and leave us alone. So the one guy grabs me by the shirt, and the principal runs over and raises hell at them. And the book knocking never happened again. And, this is a true story. She kissed me on the cheek, and all us kids had a nice time in school after that. Then, one night, at the county fair, months later the next school year, my family got to the fair, and I went to meet ole Cindy at the ferris wheel, (she made me promise to ride it with her)...halfway to the ferris wheel, this kid in a different grade told me that my friend Eugene was hurt, and wanted us to help him get back up to the fair. So, I go out to the edge of the parking lot, and I got jumped by six of these psycho hillbillies. And, I got the heck beaten out of me. Sure enough, I was fighting has violently as I could, but I was getting shoved, punched, kicked from every side. Then, there was a bunch of yelling, and the sickoes took off running. I was on the ground. I was saved by Cindy. She saw me across the way, standing with her parents, and they followed my detour, and saw the six wailing on me. So, my parents and her parents were there, the sheriff was there, and I tried desperately to act like I wasn't hurt much. Black eye, busted lip, ribs hurt like hell...lol. So, those idiots were gone from school, and their cousins from some God-forsaken place never came back to town, I guess. And by golly, Cindy and I rode that ferris wheel, had a great time. I hadn't remembered that for...probly decades, ? It isn't just a racial thing. Anybody can be victimized by profiling, for being an outsider. It isn't just racial. You can get beat up, hated, just for being from another part of the country. You can be hated out of jealousy. God help you if you are the only black kid in school, carrying the books for the prettiest girl in your class, eh? Btw, as a side note...Cindy's family moved away later that year. Her Father took a pastorship at a bigger church out of state. NC, I think it was. The next year, we moved back to our previous home in Ohio. In Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Security is/was part of that triangle. I think it was water, food, and then security. Belonging to a group... Mob mentality. People feel secure in a group. So, an emotional catch phrase, a cause, can be completely unjustified, completely invalid....but the mob will adopt it, and adhere to it angrily. Not because it's a just cause. Because it makes them a secure group. And in that secure group, that belonging, there is power. And that desire for collective power overrides any lie, any bogus cause. We don't need to change laws to favor any side that is victimized. We need to change our significant subculture of no perceived accountability for breaking laws, bad personal or group conduct. All too often, it's a lack of respect for the individual for himself/herself, and a lack of respect for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 That was an excellent post, Vapor, but you lost me on the last part about making laws reflect that inequity. I don't agree...but you are very correct in appraising it as a human phenomenon. I don't necessarily agree with the implementation of that hypothetical law either, but the precedent is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Oh, that's how I took it. I just meant that I don't agree that a legit argument can be made. Good thing I type fast. That was a long story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Wow. This should be watched by every race baiting lefty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Excellent video WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 No mean comments on my story? Boring? Stupid? Maybe a "What the..." ??? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 No mean comments on my story? Boring? Stupid? Maybe a "What the..." ??? LOL not at all - I think that it IS / WAS a way of life for some of us to help out someone in need, and especially you reaching out to help defend an outnumbered black kid is admirable, but not out of the ordinary? Probably because you grew up in a home that taught that... I did too, grew up (then) in Maple Hts predominately white blue collar middle class. My parents moved from Cleveland Hts when they bought their first home. SO much racial tension even back then, but I took my cues from my parents who NEVER degraded someone by careless comments.... little did I know that it helped form my beliefs today that we all carry responsibility in the race issue. And like cysko wrote truthfully in the Paula Deen thread regarding the black mans plight, it rests squarely on the black men / fathers to raise up their generation into responsible young tax paying citizens too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Wow. This should be watched by every race baiting lefty. as a precursor to the next step of Obamas quest in gun control too. stand your ground is the target.... its all the rage on the sunday talk shows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 as a precursor to the next step of Obamas quest in gun control too. stand your ground is the target.... its all the rage on the sunday talk shows! True enough. Still let me repeat this is not a stand your ground case. Stand your ground is a red herring. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Probably because you grew up in a home that taught that... FairHooker **************************************************** Yes, I did. My parents always taught me that. Seems that racial hostility is ..learned at home, too, eh? What a sad cycle of hate, to have that bigotry passed down to kids. And the video you posted? That is awesome. I'm going to send the link to a lot of folks. Is that a show on TV ? Never heard of it before... And, yes, this case has absolutely nothing to do with "Stand Your Ground". It is strictly self-defense with no option to get away. Too bad this video info hasn't been on Fox, unless I missed it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I feel bad for respectable, black males, and I don't really mind the president starting a conversation on race, but I have sincere doubts that anything can actually be done. The problem that Obama, and many in the black community, are focusing on is that they're being unfairly racially profiled. I can somewhat relate to them because I've got bronze-ish skin and black, Asian hair, and my life as a 13 year old was rather miserable after 9/11. So why is this a problem? It's because racial profiling is not a cultural phenomenon, but a human phenomenon; a leftover relic from gaining evolutionary fitness through tribal communities. Tribe or pack mentality is a trait that is exhibited in multiple apex predators, including lions, hyenas, wolves, and humans. A tribe becomes strong by showing favor to group members and suspicion to outsiders. Furthermore, it's pretty well-established that people are bad at differentiating features among those of different racial groups than their own. The result is that when a white witness sees a white criminal, they might describe them as a redneck, a biker, or a punk. When that same witness sees a black criminal, the typical description would be a young, black male. I'm sure we've all locked our doors more often when it's a black guy walking past than when it's a white guy. This is simply the way humans are wired, so this talk of trying to fix the legal aspects around this seem somewhat misled, as this discussion paints the situation as an institutional problem rather than a problem with human nature. On the other hand, current laws assume equivalent treatment for equivalent situations, with the exception of abortion and rape laws. The life of a young, white male is not the same as the life of a young, black male, so an argument could be made that the laws need to reflect this inequity. Where do the legal lines get drawn up in this situation? Your entire post is an abortion. You post this garbage trying to form some kind of solution while ignoring the root cause of the problem. Look up the stats of how many violent crimes and murders are commited by blacks vs, other races. Look up the stats on how many blacks drop out of school as compared to other races. Look up the stats to how many blacks are born raised by a single mother as compared to other races. And yet you wonder why a little old white lady clutches her purse extra hard when a nigga walks by? ...and SHE'S a motherfukin racist to you assholes. These are the issues Obama and so called black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton should be deeply concerned with. Not Zimmerman or the Duke lacrosse team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Your entire post is an abortion. You should have been an abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 "In 2008, Obama seemed to believe that with the right leadership, America was ready to move forward on race. “We are the ones we have been waiting for,” he said. In 2013, he seemed to believe political leaders might simply make matters worse, and that, on this issue at least, we are not the ones we have been waiting for. The ones we are waiting for, he seemed to say, are still coming." - Ezra Klein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 True enough. Still let me repeat this is not a stand your ground case. Stand your ground is a red herring. WSS You keep saying that because your lawyer friend told you this months ago. Problem is, it was part of the case. It was part of the jury's instructions. Go back and look. The judge told the jury that even if they didn't believe Zimmerman's story that under Florida law he had the right to stand his ground: "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony." That's her explaining the SYG law to the jury. Those were her instructions - whether or not you believe he followed Trayvon and caused the altercation, or that he could have avoided the altercation, under Florida Law he has no duty to retreat because he "had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force." And if you don't believe me, you can read them here. That is Stand Your Ground law in the trial of George Zimmerman. Additionally, however you feel about the case, there are lots of people who had never heard of SYG laws until this, and think the law creates a legal burden that is much too low, and would like to revisit them. I think they're right, and that Stand Your Ground laws are problematic in that it becomes way too easy to prove you shot and killed someone legally because you feared for your life or great bodily harm. So I don't know what's red herring about it at all. It really was part of the Zimmerman case, and it's now part of the national discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 But that was not the plea, it was self defense with no option to retreat. Everybody knows that. But you on the left WANT it to be, so you can make it a political lever to go after it. T he Stand Your Ground law is problematic? No, it is not. If I shoot someone, unarmed, and there was no PROVABLE threat to my person, then that is murder pretty much in court. If they have a weapon - big knife, club, etc. that is self defense. If, in a fight, it gets out of hand, and the person isn't just tryin to stomp on me a few times, and starts to really come after me, that's self defense. This Zimmerman trial WAS NOT ABOUT STAND YOUR GROUND. Of course he had the right to STand his Ground. He also had the right to Vote, and free speech, Heckbunker. You want to go after the 1st amendment? His right to vote? Then why go after his right to Stand his Ground, which isn't what the trial was ABOUT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Don't try and explain anything to Heckbunker. He is closed minded., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 So, it's different to say "Stand Your Ground laws were brought up in the jury's instructions by the dingbat, dishonest judge"... and what the trial was about. The right to self defense with no option to retreat, which is when Zimmerman was pinned down and was getting his face smashed and bounced off the sidewalk, is different than claiming that Zimmerman should have run back to his car because he looked into a crystal ball and saw himself be attacked, so he wouldn't have to get involved in getting possibly fatally assaulted. So, the judge, who did not allow very pertinent evidence to be used in court for the defense, brought up the Stand Your Ground law improperly, apparently/obviously to bring it up for political reasons for the anti gun lobby. The charges had nothing to do with Stand Your Ground, and the defense did not use Stand Your Ground as a basis for self defense. The judge had a political agenda in the eyes of a lot of folks, due to the antagonism towards Zimmerman and his lawyers on decisions, and initerference with Zimmerman, trying to shut Zimmerman's legal counsel out, and questioning Zimmerman about not testifying. The only remote chance the prosecution had, was to go after Zimmeran, put words in his mouth, and rattle him badly in front of a jury. Obviously, the judge knew the case was blown from the beginning, and put Zimmerman on the spot about it. It was a kangaroo court, and STILL the jury wisely decided he was not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 By the way, what does "Heckbunker" mean and why is it supposed to insult me again? I forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 And SYG law was part of the jury's instructions, fellas. Are you suggesting that it wasn't? It wasn't made part of the case, but it did end up being part of the trial. The judge told the jury that even if they didn't think Zimmerman did his best to avoid the situation, or started the situation, or followed Trayvon, that under Florida law he had a right to stand his ground. Then she explains what the SYG law is. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 You railed against bunker, and Woody claims anybody who disagrees with him a lot is bunker... so I simply did the same to you. I have been waiting for you or him to object. HA ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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