How The New Ohio Budget Affects Your Vagina: Mike Polk

[VaporTrail]

So clever responses (not really). Next. Lets hear something real. Like sluts are sluts. They are the ones in control of their bodies. They have control if they get pregnant or not. Vapor is a kid so I don't really give a shit what he says, Heck thinks he is clever. I think he misses his old fag bud mz the pussy the pussy the pussy.

 

Haha, Diehard, is that how you respond to any study on reproductive science? I can assure you that there are people older than me who are working on those problems, not that it matters. I just think it's funny that you equate age with wisdom.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, while you're ordering everyone to "step up" and admit things, why not start by stepping up and admitting that every single political opinion you have is based on resentment. Every. Single. One. If you have a coherent political philosophy, it's that.

 

I don't like ____. I wish they'd stop ______.

 

Abortion: I don't like sluts. I wish they'd stop being so irresponsible. I also don't like liberals. I wish they'd stop pretending they care about human life.

 

That's not much of a political opinion. It's simply animus.

[Westside Steve]

We already have a policy. its abortion at any time for any reason with absolutely no federal restriction.

I'm just telling you hypocrites to quit whining about it.

I realize it's tough for you since you seem to have some what of a problem with late term abortion for reasons of convenience

but...

 

If there's any animus it's yours directed at me.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

We already have a policy. its abortion at any time for any reason with absolutely no federal restriction.

 

Not true. Not true at all. There are also a myriad of restrictions at the state level. What world are you living in?

 

I'm just telling you hypocrites to quit whining about it.

 

Ha. See above.

 

If there's any animus it's yours directed at me.

 

Uh, no. My political views have quite literally nothing to do with you. And they're not a collection of reactions to people I don't like.

[calfoxwc]

Wait. Heckbunker infers that all liberals revere human life.

 

Except they favor abortion with no restrictions.

 

That is why Heckbunker loses his arguments -- he's too busy looking for another mz the pussy

 

to make sense of any legit subjects. You'd honestly think Heckbunker would get tired of Steve

 

kicking his ass, but not so far, eh?.

[Westside Steve]

Heck says there are plenty of federal restrictions against abortion. I'm sure he will list them here in due time.

 

And I find his last line very hard to believe.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

Haha, Diehard, is that how you respond to any study on reproductive science? I can assure you that there are people older than me who are working on those problems, not that it matters. I just think it's funny that you equate age with wisdom.

Okay Vapor, you're a med student or going to be. But that doesn't change the MORAL value of life. Life in my mind is more that just biology. If it is just cells and nothing else, fuck everything. Who cares about murder, rape, etc. No consequences. That is not what I, or others believe. If you do, so be it.

[MLD Woody]

Okay Vapor, you're a med student or going to be. But that doesn't change the MORAL value of life. Life in my mind is more that just biology. If it is just cells and nothing else, fuck everything. Who cares about murder, rape, etc. No consequences. That is not what I, or others believe. If you do, so be it.

 

Everything is just black and white, huh?

[Pumpkin Eater]

Even if "nearly" like you say, then what do you tell the young lady that is in no shape financially, mentally, etc. that did everything right but got pregnant anyway? "Tough shit"? Why, because of something from your religion? Because of something that's just emotion, not fact or science?

I would tell her not to have sex. Don't have sex unless you are a hundred percent prepared to deal with the consequences in a responsible manner. When did science come to a consensus that life begins at birth, as you are claiming? Science has come to the consensus that sex is for procreation, however. Unless you are an idiot you know that there is always a chance you will get pregnant.

[VaporTrail]

I would tell her not to have sex. Don't have sex unless you are a hundred percent prepared to deal with the consequences in a responsible manner. When did science come to a consensus that life begins at birth, as you are claiming? Science has come to the consensus that sex is for procreation, however. Unless you are an idiot you know that there is always a chance you will get pregnant.

 

And one of the ways of dealing with those consequences is with an abortion.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Heck says there are plenty of federal restrictions against abortion. I'm sure he will list them here in due time.

 

And I find his last line very hard to believe.

WSS

 

I didn't say there were "plenty of federal restrictions." You said there are no restrictions at all. I said that's not true (How about the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act? Do you not remember that fight in the Bush years? How about the Hyde Amendment? Are these not federal restrictions?) and said there were a myriad of restrictions at the state level. Because that's how abortion laws work in this country.

 

When you say we have "abortion at any time for any reason with absolutely no federal restriction" are you trying to be misleading by focusing on the federal government, as if that's where abortion restrictions typically come from? Because it's a strange thing to say in the weeks where we're watching state after state continue to limit abortion rights. It's in the news every day. Even a liberal state like Massachusetts has abortion restrictions after 24 weeks.

 

So I don't know why you're trying to suggest our abortion policy is "abortion at any time for any reason." It's not. I think it's 41 of 50 states with viability restrictions. All states have some manner of restrictions, on waiting periods, counseling mandates, insurance coverage, where they can be performed, how many doctors have to be there, parental notification laws, etc.

 

You're wrong about there being no federal restrictions, and your overall point is wrong.

 

So what are you saying? You'd like a federal abortion law that restricts ...what exactly? What do you believe? You know, rather than expressing your angst about what you imagine liberals believe.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I'll even give you the short version of what I believe: abortion should be restricted after viability, but only if you include health, rape, and incest exemptions for the mother.

 

And in order to reduce the number of abortions, the government should mandate that health insurance plans offer birth control at low or no cost. Things like Plan B should also be made available over the counter to anyone who wants. Both of those things are happening.

 

As far as government involvement beyond that, I don't see the wisdom of it. I think those decisions are best left to women, or couples, and their doctors, and should not involve the state.

 

You? Anyone else?

[Legacy Fan]

That's a reasonable position, heck.

 

The viability clause is a tough position to argue against, but as a person who believes that life begins at fertilization (ALL of your genes are established/ determined, as is your sex at this point), I don't like the idea of terminating a life after that point. Health, rape, & incest exemptions I can understand (absolutely the health of the mother) but again, I think there are alternatives to abortion (adoption) for the rape and incest cases. Certainly not easy, and certainly not anything i'd wish on anyone.

[MLD Woody]

I would tell her not to have sex. Don't have sex unless you are a hundred percent prepared to deal with the consequences in a responsible manner. When did science come to a consensus that life begins at birth, as you are claiming? Science has come to the consensus that sex is for procreation, however. Unless you are an idiot you know that there is always a chance you will get pregnant.

 

When did I claim life begins at birth?

 

Please show me

 

 

I'll wait....

[VaporTrail]

That's a reasonable position, heck.

 

The viability clause is a tough position to argue against, but as a person who believes that life begins at fertilization (ALL of your genes are established/ determined, as is your sex at this point), I don't like the idea of terminating a life after that point. Health, rape, & incest exemptions I can understand (absolutely the health of the mother) but again, I think there are alternatives to abortion (adoption) for the rape and incest cases. Certainly not easy, and certainly not anything i'd wish on anyone.

 

Yeah, but if you take away the option of abortions as a medical procedure in a clean environment, you really think that's going to make them stop? It's just going to put more people in danger when they try to do it with a coat hanger. Here's an article from an old doctor who practiced before roe v wade. I think it's a really good read.

 

 

 

With the Supreme Court becoming more conservative, many people who support women’s right to choose an abortion fear that Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that gave them that right, is in danger of being swept aside.

When such fears arise, we often hear about the pre-Roe “bad old days.” Yet there are few physicians today who can relate to them from personal experience. I can.

I am a retired gynecologist, in my mid-80s. My early formal training in my specialty was spent in New York City, from 1948 to 1953, in two of the city’s large municipalhospitals.

There I saw and treated almost every complication of illegal abortion that one could conjure, done either by the patient herself or by an abortionist — often unknowing, unskilled and probably uncaring. Yet the patient never told us who did the work, or where and under what conditions it was performed. She was in dire need of our help to complete the process or, as frequently was the case, to correct what damage might have been done.

The patient also did not explain why she had attempted the abortion, and we did not ask. This was a decision she made for herself, and the reasons were hers alone. Yet this much was clear: The woman had put herself at total risk, and literally did not know whether she would live or die.

This, too, was clear: Her desperate need to terminate a pregnancy was the driving force behind the selection of any method available.

The familiar symbol of illegal abortion is the infamous “coat hanger” — which may be the symbol, but is in no way a myth. In my years in New York, several women arrived with a hanger still in place. Whoever put it in — perhaps the patient herself — found it trapped in the cervix and could not remove it.

We did not have ultrasound, CT scans or any of the now accepted radiology techniques. The woman was placed under anesthesia, and as we removed the metal piece we held our breath, because we could not tell whether the hanger had gone through the uterus into the abdominal cavity. Fortunately, in the cases I saw, it had not.

However, not simply coat hangers were used.

Almost any implement you can imagine had been and was used to start an abortion — darning needles, crochet hooks, cut-glass salt shakers, soda bottles, sometimes intact, sometimes with the top broken off.

Another method that I did not encounter, but heard about from colleagues in other hospitals, was a soap solution forced through the cervical canal with a syringe. This could cause almost immediate death if a bubble in the solution entered a blood vessel and was transported to the heart.

The worst case I saw, and one I hope no one else will ever have to face, was that of a nurse who was admitted with what looked like a partly delivered umbilical cord. Yet as soon as we examined her, we realized that what we thought was the cord was in fact part of her intestine, which had been hooked and torn by whatever implement had been used in the abortion. It took six hours of surgery to remove the infected uterus and ovaries and repair the part of the bowel that was still functional.

It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. They have always been done, dating from ancient Greek days.

What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the full rights of first-class citizens — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such.

Waldo L. Fielding was an obstetrician and gynecologist in Boston for 38 years. He is the author of “Pregnancy: The Best State of the Union” (Thomas Y. Crowell, 1971).

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html

[heckofajobbrownie]

Leg, I wouldn't disagree with you that life begins after fertilization.

 

Would also agree that adoption would often be my preferred option. I just wouldn't want to make that decision for someone else. Nor do I feel it's the state's decision.

 

Once we're talking about viability, anywhere from 20-24 weeks, I think the state has a legitimate interest in setting restrictions. I know that seems somewhat arbitrary morally, but that's why so many people wrestle with this one. Which is also one of the best reasons to leave the state out of it, especially when you're dealing with cases that are often tragic and devastating to the mothers and fathers and families involved.

 

We've talked about this before, but go listen to a OB-GYN tell you some stories about what happens when expecting parents learn something has gone horribly wrong with their unborn child six months into the pregnancy. The options are never good. They're difficult and excruciatingly painful.

 

The last thing I'd want in these situations - quite literally the last thing - is some preening Washington jackass legislating what this couple and their doctor must do.

[Legacy Fan]

Agreed. A medical procedure should remain between doc & patient. State should absolutely not be involved. I'm not for the fed or the states banning abortions, I just don't think tax dollars should subsidize them.