Knock Knock

[Westside Steve]

Counselor, if I may ask, what in the living fuck were you thinking???

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Who's there?

[heckofajobbrownie]

I thought it was kind of funny, but unlike the jury members I wasn't the butt of the joke.

 

"Knock, knock."

 

"Who's there?"

 

"A bunch of shitheads who are so oblivious they don't know who George Zimmerman is."

 

 

...Way to win them over, dude.

[Westside Steve]

Yep.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaah

 

I can't believe this wasn't the onion. Team Trayvon 3 - The Zimmermen 0

[calfoxwc]

Team Trayvon 3

 

The Zimmermen 21

 

hahahahahahahahah

 

"mistakenly" bs...

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/george-zimmerman-records-mistakenly-released-684512

[DieHardBrownsFan]

The lawyer fucked up, but that has nothing to do with the facts of the case. I don't see any way they can convict him of second degree murder. It was clearly self defense.

[VaporTrail]

The lawyer fucked up, but that has nothing to do with the facts of the case. I don't see any way they can convict him of second degree murder. It was clearly self defense.

 

Did you ever imagine OJ would get away with killing his wife? The jury's not going to listen to someone they don't like. I don't understand how this guy passed the bar or a single mock trial in law school. He has to have been paid off by Team Trayvon.

[Westside Steve]

Remember the old joke, you're putting your life in the hands of a bunch of people too stupid to get out of jury duty.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

There was this terrible huge case years ago now. I was called up for jury duty.

When it came my time to be interviewed as a potential juror.. the defense attorney was asking me

a couple of questions, and then asked if I had read about the case. I said "yes". Then, asked me

if I had any strong preconceived notions, and all I said was

 

"well, yes, I just have this strong perception that the state would never have brought these terrible charges against the defendant if they didn't

have a ton of clear evidence against him already."

 

He paused, and asked me if I could still be impartial, I said "Sure, it would be my duty to be impartial".

 

He crossed me off the list. And I didn't even grin until I was dismissed and out of there.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I've served on Jury's and it's different then looking at it from TV. Remember, they have to find that BEYOND A REASONABLE doubt that it was intentional. I don't think so. The OJ trial was racially motivated which the defense team played the whole way. This is a hispanic and a black. I think he fucked up shooting him, but I also think he was getting his ass kicked and shot in self defense.

[Dste Ace]

When I see George Zimmerman, I see a pathetic figure. Someone who had dreams of being a police officer but couldn't measure up to the

requirements of the job so he joined neighborhood watch. I honestly don't think he went into the situation that night with the intent of killing

Trevon Martin. However, I also think him falling back on the 'Stand Your Ground' defense is a crock of shit.

 

I understand the basic premise of Stand Your Ground: If I'm out with my wife and children and I'm legally carrying a firearm and someone

is behaving in a manner which is directly threatening the safety of my family, then I have the right to defend my family. I get it. Unfortunately,

the law has the strong potential to be abused by wanna-be badasses with delusions of grandeur. IMO, George Zimmerman, who definitely

seems to have delusions of grandeur, initiated a confrontation with Martin. It sounds like he basically cornered Martin and Martin, like many

people who find themselves cornered, started kicking Zimmerman's ass.

 

This is my problem with Stand Your Ground--pathetic wannabes go out and legally buy a firearm and now you have someone who normally

wouldn't say boo to anyone feels like they can now right all of the wrongs of their personal little world. If George Zimmerman had not been

carrying a gun I seriously doubt that he would have had the gonads to confront Trevon Martin. If he had simply stayed in his car and waited

for real LE to arrive, Trevon Martin would still be alive. Instead, he initiated a confrontation with an unarmed man who was not breaking the

law and when he started getting his ass kicked he shot and killed the unarmed man.

 

You can't have it both ways. If Martin had dragged Zimmerman out of his car for no reason and started beating his head on the sidewalk,

then yes, that is a case of self-defense. When I was growing up, if you picked a fight and got your ass kicked, people said that you got what

was coming to you. Zimmerman picked a fight with an unarmed man, got his ass kicked, shot and killed the unarmed man, and then claimed

self-defense? Sorry, but that sounds like a crock of shit.

[Westside Steve]

you are assuming that Zimmerman picked a fight. That he was the aggressor. If so martin would be the guy employing the stand your ground statute.I believe that in stand your ground you have to reasonably feel threatened. If in fact martin attacked Zimmerman because he was merely following him I don't see how that rises to t:he necessary level.

it seems as though martin attack before he realized Zimmeeman was armed.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Whether he is a wannabe cop or not, it doesn't give anyone the right to attack him. And if he had a gun and shot him, it was self defense if in fact he was getting hit and felt in danger.

[calfoxwc]

But there are a few problems with that, as I see it. Zimmerman never cornered him. Martin clearly disappeared from sight.

And, as that was settled, Zimmerman had no choice but to either stand there stupidly all alone, or to walk back toward his truck.

That's hardly "cornered".

 

Martin apparently doubled back and surprised Zimmerman and attacked him. And real LE doesn't just show up because

some guy is walking down the sidewalk staring down different houses, from different angles, and then running and hiding behind

some houses.

 

Zimmerman clearly quit following him. It's hardly correct to appraise the guilt as being on Zimmerman. He was doing his

official job - watching. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, he could have been safer, but still attacked in a vulnerable

position. And he didn't know if Martin had a gun or not. Or a bunch of friends to show up with him. How could Zimmerman pick a fight

with somebody who disappeared from his sight, behind some houses?

 

No, the conflict was initiated by Martin. And, Zimmerman was getting his head beaten in on concrete. That could kill or disable him for life.

It's an awful situation. But the only one who broke a law, was Martin as he doubled back, came back out of hiding, and assaulted

Zimmerman.

 

And, btw, it's ridiculous - to walk that distance to buy some chips? Seriously? Or maybe he walked down that street to help a

little old lady to cross the street? No, Martin was up to no good, was casing a house to break into, for money, I think. Innocent

walkers don't escape to safety, then angrily come back and sucker attack some weirdo they were "afraid" of earlier.

[Dste Ace]

That's the problem with this case--we have to assume because the only witness to the entire situation is Zimmerman.

I feel pretty confident that he isn't going to say anything that puts him in anything other than a good light. Based on

what I've read and heard concerning this case, there are a few facts that we know. Trevon Martin was walking through

a strange neighborhood in the rain with his hood pulled up over his head. We can see Zimmerman's attitude and state of

mind through the 911 call. "Fucking punks". "These assholes always get away". The 911 operator asking Zimmerman if

he is out of the car following Martin: "...you don't need to be doing that...".

 

I've tried to put myself in Martin's shoes and ask what I would have done differently. I'm in a strange neighborhood,

walking home from the store. I see a car following me. I keep walking--suddenly the driver of the car gets out and starts

following me. As an adult with many years of perspective under my belt, I can tell you what I would do now. As a 17 year old?

My reaction might be a lot different.

 

Everything else we may know comes from Zimmerman and quite frankly, given his statements and behavior over the past year

I take everything he says with a grain of salt. Everything else is conjecture. I think that the case may turn on whether the judge

allows the past 911 calls made by Zimmerman to be heard by the jury. Given what I've heard, those calls certainly are not going to

help Zimmerman.They paint him as a pathetic wannabe cop trying to live up to a self image that exists only in his mind. If the judge

doesn't allow them, I think there's a pretty good chance that he walks. His attorney doesn't impress me, though.

 

I can't say I that I believe Zimmerman deserves to go to prison for 10 years. Again, he strikes me as a pathetic wannabe with a

skewed self-image of what he wants to be, and that self-image goaded him into instigating a situation that turned to shit in a way

that he never imagined. I believe that if he didn't have a gun he never would have gotten out of his vehicle and followed Martin.

I don't think Z will be convicted. He'll write a book and be a hero to a certain segment of the population and a gutless villain to

another segment and he'll be sued in a civil suit by Martin's parents, etc., etc., etc.

 

For the record, I own several firearms. 3 shotguns and a British Enfield .303 given to me by my grandfather.I believe in the 2nd Amendment.

I also believe that there are people who have no business owning a gun. Just like alcohol gives some people instant courage, a firearm

can give some people (and I believe Zimmerman is one of them) a false sense of self-confidence that leads them to do things they would

normally never do.

[MLD Woody]

Damn Cal, you should be called as a witness

[calfoxwc]

Again, he strikes me as a pathetic wannabe with a

skewed self-image of what he wants to be, and that self-image goaded him into instigating a situation that turned to shit in a way

that he never imagined.. Dste Ace

**********************************************

And that is a very solid way of describing him, except that I prefer Zimmerman having initiated the incident, and Martin

became the aggressor by instigating the confrontation. It's a sick, sad situation. True, if Z hadn't had a gun at all...

who knows. Maybe he would have gotten stabbed in the neck as he sat in his truck by Martin. Martin would flee the crime scene,

Z would be dead, and nobody would ever know what happened. I think there's no way Z gets convicted, but he will pay a high price

for having the incident turn out so tragically anyways, for the rest of his life. If only Zimmerman had had tear gas to stop

one attacker from coming at him, he could have pepper sprayed Martin as he confronted and attacked him, and gotten away,

and they would both be okay today. Then, had that not worked and Martin came after him with some knife, there would be no

controversy or alleged liabilty on Zimmerman's part. Truth is, I have a dim view of both of them as people.....

[Dste Ace]

 

Again, he strikes me as a pathetic wannabe with a

skewed self-image of what he wants to be, and that self-image goaded him into instigating a situation that turned to shit in a way

that he never imagined.. Dste Ace

**********************************************

And that is a very solid way of describing him, except that I prefer Zimmerman having initiated the incident, and Martin

became the aggressor by instigating the confrontation. It's a sick, sad situation. True, if Z hadn't had a gun at all...

who knows. Maybe he would have gotten stabbed in the neck as he sat in his truck by Martin. Martin would flee the crime scene,

Z would be dead, and nobody would ever know what happened. I think there's no way Z gets convicted, but he will pay a high price

for having the incident turn out so tragically anyways, for the rest of his life. If only Zimmerman had had tear gas to stop

one attacker from coming at him, he could have pepper sprayed Martin as he confronted and attacked him, and gotten away,

and they would both be okay today. Then, had that not worked and Martin came after him with some knife, there would be no

controversy or alleged liabilty on Zimmerman's part. Truth is, I have a dim view of both of them as people.....

 

 

Initiated is a better way of describing the situation. I was searching for a better word than instigating but couldn't come up with it.

And it is a sick, sad situation. Zimmerman, while he probably won't be convicted (although with his attorney all bets are off), will live

with this for the rest of his life. Looking at him sitting in the courtroom, you can almost see the thought bubble above his head, "How

in the fuck did this ever get so out of control"? I don't think he's evil--just a sad, weak man. SMH.

[heckofajobbrownie]

A man with wannabe cop issues who is carrying a loaded gun gets out of his car, unadvisedly, and follows an unarmed teen until some sort of confrontation ensues, and then he doesn't just pull the gun on him, but shoots the unarmed teen dead with a single shot.

 

If I were on the jury, he'd have a long way to go to prove to me that he doesn't deserve any jail time.

 

And forget the knock knock joke. If a defense attorney tried to suggest that the teen really was armed because the pavement is a deadly weapon, he'd have even longer to go.

 

That's fucking laughable.

[Westside Steve]

Probably a good thing you aren't on the jury then. If a white man were being followed by a black man would that be sufficient reason for the white man to turn around and attack?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

A man with wannabe cop issues who is carrying a loaded gun gets out of his car, unadvisedly, and follows an unarmed teen until some sort of confrontation ensues, and then he doesn't just pull the gun on him, but shoots the unarmed teen dead with a single shot.

 

If I were on the jury, he'd have a long way to go to prove to me that he doesn't deserve any jail time.

 

And forget the knock knock joke. If a defense attorney tried to suggest that the teen really was armed because the pavement is a deadly weapon, he'd have even longer to go.

 

That's fucking laughable.

Your response is laughable.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Probably a good thing you aren't on the jury then. If a white man were being followed by a black man would that be sufficient reason for the white man to turn around and attack?

WSS

 

What a silly question.

[Westside Steve]

What a silly question.

 

One would think. But you seem to think that if the races are reversed it's an acceptable action.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Talk about straw man. dang. I thought you despised those straw men?

 

Ah, only when YOU get to use them.

 

Meanwhile, the main witness's cred is wracked into pieces.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

The star witness was a joke. Some ghetto girl who couldn't even speak english. They had to repeatedly ask her to repeat herself. This whole trial is a waste of money.

[heckofajobbrownie]

One would think. But you seem to think that if the races are reversed it's an acceptable action.

WSS

 

Oh, stop it. You'll notice I didn't mention race at all. You did. And then you assume that I believe the opposite of your supposition. One of these days you're going to get why it's so irritating to discuss these issues with you. It's not going to be soon, but maybe someday.

 

I'm saying something different. I'm saying that when you're packing heat and decide to follow someone against the wishes of the 911 dispatcher, and the fact that you followed someone is part of what initiates a confrontation, and then you use lethal force to end the confrontation, you've got to go a long way to prove that you really, really needed to take that person's life in order to save yours.

 

He was armed, and knew that when he followed him. Then he took another man's life. That's a substantial burden to overcome in my eyes.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

Oh, stop it. You'll notice I didn't mention race at all. You did. And then you assume that I believe the opposite of your supposition. One of these days you're going to get why it's so irritating to discuss these issues with you. It's not going to be soon, but maybe someday.

 

I'm saying something different. I'm saying that when you're packing heat and decide to follow someone against the wishes of the 911 dispatcher, and the fact that you followed someone is part of what initiates a confrontation, and then you use lethal force to end the confrontation, you've got to go a long way to prove that you really, really needed to take that person's life in order to save yours.

 

He was armed, and knew that when he followed him. Then he took another man's life. That's a substantial burden to overcome in my eyes.

Only problem with your opinion is that it is the prosecutions duty to prove he is guilty, not the other way around genius. I don't see it happening. Of course, after the OJ trial anything is possible.

[calfoxwc]

With libs, if they don't like you, you are guilty, and if you can't prove you

 

are innocent with no doubt, then you are still guilty.

 

Unless you are one of them, then you are innocent no matter what the evidence.

[calfoxwc]

Joke star witness, blech, ends up with a lot of deleted Twitter messages.

 

Hide facts, they want to convict Zimmerman.

 

She was a mistake to put on the stand. Interesting, when she got miffed at the

 

prosecutor's questioning...she all of a sudden spoke louder and clearer.

 

"oops", main witness.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/zimmerman-witness-gets-twitter-scrub-748092