ClevelandBrowns.com Preview Show

[OconRecon]

Thoughts from the show (Zach Jackson, et al), not a whole lot new, but its been a slow Browns news day:

 

- Browns need to stop M. Lynch and make Edwards beat them. Edwards has been the main source of the Bills turnovers lately, so laying it on his shoulders is a good thing.

 

Comments on Quinn:

 

- Quinn changes the dynamic of the offense

- Need to get him out of the pocket, because he can

- Double tight end sets worked well and Quinn made the right reads against Denver

- Quinn compares very well to the first start of Kosar, Sipe, etc. Except it was mentioned that Kosar fumbled the ball for a turnover on his first play from scrimmage. Sipe fumbled the ball on a "center the ball" play setting up for the game winning field goal on his first start. Quinn didn't make those mistakes.

 

QB coach Scherer comments:

 

- Says it was not difficult to get Brady ready because he works hard, but it was a challenge to get his practice reps up.

- Up til now, Quinn has been getting about 5% of the snaps with the 1st team offense in practice, not much. This long prep time will help.

- Game plan will now be geared to Quinn's strengths. Knowing the entire playbook is not an issue - he knows it.

- The game plan vs Denver was based more on the Denver D then having Quinn make safe passes.

- Says he has as strong of arm as anyone in the NFL. Says "we all know that".

- Most impressed with his poise and field presence.

- The most important thing is to play within himself and the system. Should not try to force the big play.

 

 

Injury report:

 

- Steinbach is probably a go

- Vickers is out

- Williams and Rogers are probably a go

- D line has been too banged up to see its full potential

 

Keys to victory:

 

- Stop Lynch

- Win line of scrimmage

- Brady has to out play Trent

- Defense needs to step up

- Need a repeat of Monday night magic, like against the Giants

- Play loose and take it one game at a time

 

Again, not thrilling stuff, but its whats on today. The QB coach comments interesting though.

[Guest Masters]

Thanks for posting that. Another thing I miss by not being able to have satellite. Good stuff.

[Vegasdogg]

QB coach Scherer comments:

 

- Says it was not difficult to get Brady ready because he works hard, but it was a challenge to get his practice reps up.

- Up til now, Quinn has been getting about 5% of the snaps with the 1st team offense in practice, not much. This long prep time will help.

- Game plan will now be geared to Quinn's strengths. Knowing the entire playbook is not an issue - he knows it.

- The game plan vs Denver was based more on the Denver D then having Quinn make safe passes.

- Says he has as strong of arm as anyone in the NFL. Says "we all know that".

- Most impressed with his poise and field presence.

- The most important thing is to play within himself and the system. Should not try to force the big play.

Must be a Quinn fag....

[Riffer X]

Thoughts from the show (Zach Jackson, et al), not a whole lot new, but its been a slow Browns news day:

 

 

 

Comments on Quinn:

 

- Quinn changes the dynamic of the offense

- Need to get him out of the pocket, because he can

- Double tight end sets worked well and Quinn made the right reads against Denver

- Quinn compares very well to the first start of Kosar, Sipe, etc. Except it was mentioned that Kosar fumbled the ball for a turnover on his first play from scrimmage. Sipe fumbled the ball on a "center the ball" play setting up for the game winning field goal on his first start. Quinn didn't make those mistakes.

 

QB coach Scherer comments:

 

- Says it was not difficult to get Brady ready because he works hard, but it was a challenge to get his practice reps up.

- Up til now, Quinn has been getting about 5% of the snaps with the 1st team offense in practice, not much. This long prep time will help.

- Game plan will now be geared to Quinn's strengths. Knowing the entire playbook is not an issue - he knows it.

- The game plan vs Denver was based more on the Denver D then having Quinn make safe passes.

- Says he has as strong of arm as anyone in the NFL. Says "we all know that".

- Most impressed with his poise and field presence.

- The most important thing is to play within himself and the system. Should not try to force the big play.

 

 

Can someone please explain to me why this franchise has been dicking around with DA for this long?

 

This team is a joke.

[Guest Masters]

They screwed around too long with DA this season. But CLE had to give him a shot after last year. They just had too. RAC stuck to his guy for too long. But that is one of RACs faults.

 

I read your rant in the Lerner thread. I'll just say this, what I am most upset about with Phil at this point with the CLE team is that despite popular belief, he doesn't dictate or get involved with who is playing and who is not. As seen from past stories, he simply asks questions (a management technique so many use these days) and makes people outline why they are doing, then lets them go on their way. It works sometimes for people to realize they are on the wrong path, but you can't stay passive with that forever. Phil did I think. I don't want him medling day in and day out, but if ever there was a time he should have, it was earlier this season.

[Guest 88fingerslewy]

What I want to know is "who are these idiots accountable to?" It looks like the inmates running the asylum.

[Guest Masters]

Accountable to Lerner and Savage. Lerner leaves most to Savage and that dude he finally hired as president. I don't think any of those 3 are happy or believe the team is performing the way they can or should. But I don't think there was anyone on the staff they felt they could hand the team over to this season once it went down hill. I don't think any of the guys on that staff would really do better than RAC is doing, over all as a HC. Maybe Chud, but he can't fix the D. No one on this staff can fix the D.

[Riffer X]

They screwed around too long with DA this season. But CLE had to give him a shot after last year. They just had too. RAC stuck to his guy for too long. But that is one of RACs faults.

 

I read your rant in the Lerner thread. I'll just say this, what I am most upset about with Phil at this point with the CLE team is that despite popular belief, he doesn't dictate or get involved with who is playing and who is not. As seen from past stories, he simply asks questions (a management technique so many use these days) and makes people outline why they are doing, then lets them go on their way. It works sometimes for people to realize they are on the wrong path, but you can't stay passive with that forever. Phil did I think. I don't want him medling day in and day out, but if ever there was a time he should have, it was earlier this season.

 

Giving DA a shot was the safe thing to do, but certainly not the ballsiest or best decision. They needed draft picks and he presented them. They could have been proactive about the whole situation but were so worried in being wrong about DA that it swayed all natural process. DA showed what he was last year and everybody knew it, then he topped it off with a miserable performance in the Pro Bowl that expounded all his flaws. They could have went out and got a decent backup and turned the reins over to Quinn.

 

Those picks could have been used on some big time help on defense and rest be assured they would be getting plenty of playing time on this team by now. Meanwhile, Quinn is handed over the reins and this offense is actually using the whole playbook from the get go. If nothing else, at least if the record was the same or sorse as it is now they would be developing the younger draft picks and getting Quinn his reps.

 

Mik, I don't buy your opinion on Phillip not dictating how things are run. He dictated everything when he chose to keep DA around and at that point told everybody that DA is the QB, no questions asked. There was no camp battle, no nothing that gave RAC a voice. Yeah, it was ultimately RAC's decision to finally yank him, but Phillip is the one who put him and this team in position to have to stay with the starter as long as possible.

 

Phillip made this bed, plain and simple, and it was because he took the safe way out instead of making the hard decision. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Think of how two high picks would have supplemented this team while still adding Williams and Rogers. DA is going to be released now for nothing but a cap hit in the offseason. He showed enough poor play last year to never warrant this kind of investment when you have a quality kid like Quinn and a defense that needs bodies.

 

This was a franchise killing maneuver, one that will bite us in the ass for awhile. It's already cost this season, and those picks would have been huge down the line.

[Greythan]

Again, as I pointed out in the past, the best run franchises that are perennially competitive aren't afraid to cash in a starter at his peak value if they have a player they are high on behind him on the depth chart. New England and Philadelphia are two examples that jump to mind. Have made trades that had their fanbase fully puzzled, but not nuts. Why? Because they've seen it work more times than not.

 

We choked on the opportunity to move DA at what very well may end up being his peak value (this past offseason).

 

Safe play? Sure was. Game changing? Nope. We sure could have used that 1st/3rd (regardless of where).

 

All that said, Quinn's played one game. Has a number of gates to run before we can declare him "the answer". DA is, at least, a more than capable backup and there is value to that. Just look around the league at most teams (New England's the freak) who lose their starting QB.

[Riffer X]

QUOTE (88fingerslewy @ Nov 14 2008, 04:13 PM) *

I was talking to an Ashtabula guy, Ravens weekend; and he mentioned Lerner might be selling because of an upcoming divorce. I didn't know he was married, and secondly I couldn't pick him out in a crowd. He's not a very visible owner. Anyone else hear this?

 

 

I'm originally an Ashtabula guy, and although there are some hardcore Browns fans there I don't know why one of those dudes would know about Lerner more than anyone else.

 

I don't consider it my business when it comes to his families personal life, but there could be some lingering effects from the tragedy a few years back involving the little boy. That was a terrible thing to happen to a family regardless how much money they have.

 

One thing I've never understood is blaming the owner. I use to ask one guy why he hated Modell and he'd say it was because he's a hands off owner. Then I'd turn around and ask another dude and he'd say it was because he was too hands on.

 

Lerner has done nothing but run a class organization. He's spared no expense on anything and has stayed out of the spotlight. His hires have looked good when he got them, I don't recall too many bitching about Policy and Clark and then he went out and got Butch, who everybody was excited about. Savage was a good hire and RAC 'n ROLLS had a recently good pedigree and track record. He made the right call on the Collins/Phillip feud and listened to the fans.

 

I really could care less if the guy has a soccer team over in England, that has no effect on me. Only thing that bothers me is this means the dude must like soccer, and that is a bit worrisome. Liking soccer enough to buy a team overseas makes me wonder about his sports knowledge and fandom, but I know he loves the Browns.

 

If anything, I think he may need to rein in Phillip a little bit, I think he's gotten a little carried away with himself. I mention this a lot, but it's my opinion that Savage is the guy who single handily forced this entire franchise into buying into Derek Anderson. I saw it first hand at the Browns Backers meeting last spring when he held a mic into about 15 scouts and personnel people and forced them to say DA is the QB. It was Napoleonesque in every way, and this whole franchise was force fed DA, despite what a ton of us knowledgeable fans out here knew. We expected to win this year and putting the entire franchise on the back of the Oregon Beaver Boy was foolish.

 

We saw enough last year to know DA wasn't the guy to lead a consistent playoff team. He should have been moved and picks acquired while he still had value, plain and simple. This would have justified using the draft picks on Rogers and Williams a helluva lot more.

 

Seriously, I'm not one to go apeshit and start blaming everybody from the owner on down when a team fails, but Lerner is not my worry, Savage is. Not a lot, but enough to make me take notice. This DA transgression is something that could have set this franchise back a few years. Watching the guy destroy our season and lose any value he had because of stubbornness by the guy up top is scary.

 

RAC 'n ROLLS is done, but I've been nothing but not impressed with Chud and Tucker, they've been downright terrible. Both have shown flashes when things were going well, but then turned around and cost us games. The Baltimore fiasco of rushing three on 3rd and 16 when Flaxico was ready to get knocked out is downright stupid and I shouldn't have to watch morons lose big games like that. Sorry, I've invested too much time into being a fan of this team this long to watch that kind of stupidity in coaching. Chud has shown no imagination when needed and we're sitting around letting playmakers like Cribbs and Harrison rest when we're trying to force feed Lewis into 9 man run blitzes. The goal line debacles have been downright embarrassing, as these guys have never heard of a QB sneak or putting someone like Rogers in the backfield.

 

This rant started as a stick up for Lerner thing but evolved into more. Basically, the problems I see are straight up coaching by RAC 'n ROLLS and his staff. I think Savage has done a decent enough job with talent and most of his decisions I have agreed with, however, IMO he is the man responsible for the DA fiasco after drafting a guy like Quinn and giving up two picks. Nobody else, it's all on him and that's what he wanted.

 

I don't like change, but at this point I think the coaching staff should be gutted after the season and Phil needs to have his power checked a bit.

[Guest Masters]

Giving DA a shot was the safe thing to do, but certainly not the ballsiest or best decision. They needed draft picks and he presented them. They could have been proactive about the whole situation but were so worried in being wrong about DA that it swayed all natural process. DA showed what he was last year and everybody knew it, then he topped it off with a miserable performance in the Pro Bowl that expounded all his flaws. They could have went out and got a decent backup and turned the reins over to Quinn.

 

Those picks could have been used on some big time help on defense and rest be assured they would be getting plenty of playing time on this team by now. Meanwhile, Quinn is handed over the reins and this offense is actually using the whole playbook from the get go. If nothing else, at least if the record was the same or sorse as it is now they would be developing the younger draft picks and getting Quinn his reps.

 

Mik, I don't buy your opinion on Phillip not dictating how things are run. He dictated everything when he chose to keep DA around and at that point told everybody that DA is the QB, no questions asked. There was no camp battle, no nothing that gave RAC a voice. Yeah, it was ultimately RAC's decision to finally yank him, but Phillip is the one who put him and this team in position to have to stay with the starter as long as possible.

 

Phillip made this bed, plain and simple, and it was because he took the safe way out instead of making the hard decision. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Think of how two high picks would have supplemented this team while still adding Williams and Rogers. DA is going to be released now for nothing but a cap hit in the offseason. He showed enough poor play last year to never warrant this kind of investment when you have a quality kid like Quinn and a defense that needs bodies.

 

This was a franchise killing maneuver, one that will bite us in the ass for awhile. It's already cost this season, and those picks would have been huge down the line.

 

 

Hindsight is 20/20 on the picks CLE might have gotten for DA (or Quinn). They hedged their bets and it didn't work. They just couldn't give up on DA after his numbers last season.

 

See you go to what Phil said about DA, but I think that had more to do with making DA all cozy, and fending off their being a QB contraversy than Phil making absolutes that DA would start. Remember, RAC was the one that first started pimping DA when he was a RFA and CLE was looking to sign him. I highly doubt Phil told RAC to have no real QB battle or to not give Quinn a chance to win the job. That was RAC. I mean we all heard him when he talked about DA when he was struggling. This is also the same RAC that since last year never refers to Quinn by his name. It's always the kid, the other guy, etc. Like he was Parcells talking about the guy he didn't want, TO.

 

Phil went safe. No question. But there are few GMs who would have made a balsy move there. Plus, how big was the market truly for DA? We don't really know. He signed awefully quick with CLE rather than seeing what was out there. That is a little telling about the true DA market. I don't buy that anyone would have given up a 1 and 3 for him, and that was the tender on him.

 

I can't say that move was a franchise killer. A season killer, yes. But franchise? That is a stretch.

[Mr. T]

Can someone please explain to me why this franchise has been dicking around with DA for this long?

 

This team is a joke.

 

Fragile Egos?

[Riffer X]

Hindsight is 20/20 on the picks CLE might have gotten for DA (or Quinn). They hedged their bets and it didn't work. They just couldn't give up on DA after his numbers last season.

 

See you go to what Phil said about DA, but I think that had more to do with making DA all cozy, and fending off their being a QB contraversy than Phil making absolutes that DA would start. Remember, RAC was the one that first started pimping DA when he was a RFA and CLE was looking to sign him. I highly doubt Phil told RAC to have no real QB battle or to not give Quinn a chance to win the job. That was RAC. I mean we all heard him when he talked about DA when he was struggling. This is also the same RAC that since last year never refers to Quinn by his name. It's always the kid, the other guy, etc. Like he was Parcells talking about the guy he didn't want, TO.

 

Phil went safe. No question. But there are few GMs who would have made a balsy move there. Plus, how big was the market truly for DA? We don't really know. He signed awefully quick with CLE rather than seeing what was out there. That is a little telling about the true DA market. I don't buy that anyone would have given up a 1 and 3 for him, and that was the tender on him.

 

I can't say that move was a franchise killer. A season killer, yes. But franchise? That is a stretch.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and I don't normally bash GM's for what might have beens. A good case in point is Shapiro getting rid of Brandon Phillips. The Tribe did everything they could to give that guy the job and he didn't take it. Finally, they were out of options and Wedge picked his guy (Vasquez) over Phillips to be his utilityman. Hence, Phillips goes to Cincy and blows up with his fresh start. Here, he couldn't hit 250 in AAA.

 

Anyways, you weren't posting much back when this was going on and many of us discussed this at length. We beat it into the ground as a matter of fact, and this probably kept the offseason talk going more than anything else. Many of us here who weren't on board with DA were in favor of this move. Hell, I had a list of backups available every week for awhile. I just don't get it, DA has been treated with kid gloves by this franchise and it has pissed me off. They were too afraid to even get a look at Quinn last year and crapped their pants after he drove downfield at will for the one drive against San Fran, almost panicking to get DA back in there in a completely meaningless game.. Meanwhile, they waited and decided to not take any offers for DA and probably gave him more than what he even should have got.

 

There were trades out there Mik, the one rumor for a first and third via Dallas through Bmore may not be substantiated, but I'll guarantee you they could have gotten something done with somebody. You just don't put this much investment into a one dimensional, scattershot QB. No way, no how, and not when you have someone with Quinn's pedigree just sitting there waiting. Draft picks are always a risk, which is why you need as many as you can get. Grey put it great and has in the past in that good organizations know when to pull the trigger. Somehow, the Pats keep getting multiple high round picks every year. Phillip had his chance to cash in on a Scott Mitchell and instead we played the part of the Lions. Then we're stuck with a guy the whole franchise (led by Phillip) considers so goddamn fragile that they can never open up a fair competition or dare pull him for incompetent QBing.

 

It's really, really frustrating for me because I knew all along what DA was yet still hoped for the best and bought into what Phil said. A bunch of us did. His excuse of not wanting the season to go into the dumps if Quinn were to go down without a backup is BS, there was plenty of time to get a decent backup in here. The freakin Steelers pulled Fat Albert off the scrap heap and they didn't even have time to do much shopping after Charlie's a Batch went down. The Browns had all off season. Two more picks in the top four rounds would have been huge this season, instead we're all going apeshit over Beau Bell and Martin Rucker and looking at eating 5 million in cap money after the season.

 

It's really simple to me. This team would be much better now if Quinn wast the starter coming in with a Cleo Lemon type as a backup, along with two extra high round picks......then what they currently are now. What they are now is certainly not all the fault of starting DA, but it was a bad decision, period. It ranks right up there with not taking all the picks for Couch , and they still haven't dug out from that one.

 

I seem to be in the middle with Phillip. Others seem to either not like him at all (Flugs) or always have his back (you). I've told you in the past I have issues with some of the things he's done and this ranks first by far on his list of transgressions. It completely blows away the Oklahoma draft fetish.

[Gips]

Accountable to Lerner and Savage. Lerner leaves most to Savage and that dude he finally hired as president. I don't think any of those 3 are happy or believe the team is performing the way they can or should. But I don't think there was anyone on the staff they felt they could hand the team over to this season once it went down hill. I don't think any of the guys on that staff would really do better than RAC is doing, over all as a HC. Maybe Chud, but he can't fix the D. No one on this staff can fix the D.

 

/agree our coaching staff is a pathetic collection of nfl rejects from rac down and anyone from this staff taking over as HC or even staying onboard once rac is fired will be a detriment to this club for 4 more years..none of them are naturally gifted coaches or masters of the game chud is the best we have and to me he hasnt proven he is capable of being a head coach he is way to wishy washy on his overall gameplans he often panics and abandons the run way to soon without switching backs if things arent going well and he repeatedly calls plays the opposing defense is totally aware of and ready for..

 

Mel tucker is a complete flop as DC this guy should be delivering water to the players instead of coaching at all and rip scherer is as undisiplined a qb coach as i have ever seen he talks a good game but the qbs show no polish from his coaching because he sucks....

 

This whole inbred staff has to go to get anything done but it means nothing without a motivational in your face get it done or we will get someone who can coach...

 

These attemped ass saving double talks by chud and rip"the qb butcher"scherer should serve as proof enough they suck by saying things like they wanted bq to play earlier bla bla bla until they said this all i heard from them was DA was the guy bq was just not ready etc etc..

 

Savage is still learning the ropes he may be ok lerner is not a good owner and thats where the problem is he should sell the team to someone who loves football and understands the business end of the game because running the browns like citibank doesnt work running a winning football is more like a dictatorship than a free enterprise..lerner needs to move closer to the sucky euro soccer he loves than the football city he doesnt...

Mike keenan as president yet another blunder this guy has done nothing to boost the confidence of this organization since around 2004 or so yet they make him prez gee i wonder why this team and organization suck we teeze the squealers about being inbred but their inbred gene pool is far superior to ours at least they do bring in fresh talented people while cleveland keeps recycling the same below mediocre talent that keeps us losing..

[Riffer X]

Savage is still learning the ropes he may be ok lerner is not a good owner and thats where the problem is he should sell the team to someone who loves football and understands the business end of the game because running the browns like citibank doesnt work running a winning football is more like a dictatorship than a free enterprise..lerner needs to move closer to the sucky euro soccer he loves than the football city he doesnt.

 

 

This is what I don't understand. What does Lerner have to do with what's going down on the field? You just said Savage is okay yet don't like Lerner and claim to somehow know how he runs his business. Perhaps you can explain further.

[Legacy Fan]

chud is the best we have and to me he hasnt proven he is capable of being a head coach he is way to wishy washy on his overall gameplans he often panics and abandons the run way to soon without switching backs if things arent going well and he repeatedly calls plays the opposing defense is totally aware of and ready for..

 

How about we wait for a couple of games with a QB that doesn't throw every other pass into the dirt or nosebleed section. 16-18 games worth of a 2 down per series offense (with one of those reserved for the Zastudil show) kind of limits your gameplan.