Qb Comparison against the same team

[lodilobo]

this is odd "managing" I could see but his completion rating was 31% for 90 yards. That's not managing that's poor performance When you only convert 2 first downs and get bailed out by long cribbs runs that's not "managing"

 

if he converted 1st downs and completed 60%+ of the 1st down conversions than yes HE would be "managing" the game

cribbs and the defense managed the game

 

da is a better qb for the offense the comparative stats are what they are they don't have a opinion

I kept avoiding this stupid post since it has been resurrected, but somehow, I was stupid enough to get sucked in. Please....you DA supporters....if you have any way to go back and re watch his last 3 games, do it. Then, see if you are able to come back and post this crap. He sucks....being a former DA fan....it's hard to admit it, but Quinn is head and shoulders above DA in qb skills, and natural talent. I love DA's arm strength, but he's not able to make the decisions to evolve. Maybe, with the right coaching he can become a productive qb.....like they did with Testeverde....but at this point, he sucks. This is not to say that Quinn is Joe Montana, but he is still learning, and improving. I like DA, and hope he does well somewhere else...I just would prefer that they cut him from the team, now.

[trodgers]

Q) do we have anyone that can catch a football on this team?

Moore? Robiskie? Certainly none of the guys who were starting at the beginning of the season.

[osusev]

I kept avoiding this stupid post since it has been resurrected, but somehow, I was stupid enough to get sucked in. Please....you DA supporters....if you have any way to go back and re watch his last 3 games, do it. Then, see if you are able to come back and post this crap. He sucks....being a former DA fan....it's hard to admit it, but Quinn is head and shoulders above DA in qb skills, and natural talent. I love DA's arm strength, but he's not able to make the decisions to evolve. Maybe, with the right coaching he can become a productive qb.....like they did with Testeverde....but at this point, he sucks. This is not to say that Quinn is Joe Montana, but he is still learning, and improving. I like DA, and hope he does well somewhere else...I just would prefer that they cut him from the team, now.

 

I see make a grandiose statement, but totally disregard statistical facts. I like how things are "stupid" when you start a post based upon statistical comparisons not opinion..... sure I could see if you wanted to argue about sample variables.... if you want I can define that for you...... But no its "stupid"......

 

Here let me help you.... the comparable sample variables that were NOT taken into consideration are ; WEATHER..... Different skill players.....opposing teams injuries....... Stadium locations..... total time of qb to skill player saturation in practices.....

 

these variables MIGHT affect the statistical variances in performances that were used as metrics of comparisons..... I suppose if we take wind direction and air density those could have had effects on rotation of the ball increasing or decreasing accuracy..... Wait you could even claimed the air temperature had an effect on fluid dynamics within Brady quinn thereby making his muscles working harder to contract to keep warm affecting his flud delivery of the ball hurting his accuracy..... Maybe it was the coreolis affect on his deep throws that was thrown off by wind gusts because of the architectures of the stadiums create odd wind patterns....

 

I mean seriously it is a rare oppurtunity to compare two qbs who play the exact same two teams in the same season. What was wrong by comparing the STATS side by side? Was it because it does not fit the narrative you want to tell yourself based upon nothing but your "gut" instinct and your visual analysis? sure I know its "stupid" when our team is now has a grand total of 2 wins to look at every position analytically.... Wait lets based this on jersey sales statistics...... I like the still learning and improving statement after three years and his stats have stayed a pretty constant mean average. "right" coaching is used for an excuse for Quinn but DA has had the same and of course he just sucks and the coaches were all there for him too,,,,,, learning... sure even though the relative ages are similar...

By the way I forgot BQ was "NFL" ready played in a "NFL" system touted by the Great Charlie Weis..... hmmmm where again is charlie weis? oh thats right he was fired after tanking...... leading the irish to the worst single season in history....... Sure the tumble in the draft of BQ was all a mistake and the Browns magically found a gem when 20+ franchises passed.......

 

His completion rate and accuracy are awesome and he is a "manager" now and does not lose...... I suppose if you want to spin it that way it makes perfect sense.... He is smart because he does not turn the ball over..... its kind of hard to turn the ball over when you throw checkdowns constantly for low completion rates... Why dont you go pimp his collegiate accolades now or his NFL stats? o wait you want to pick his last three games.... ok lets go randomly pick three games for DA...... you probably would say that was flawed but for Quinn its used as a rebuttal and a final finding.

 

 

 

[mastadave99999]

DA will be gone after the season. Quinn is in for the long term.

 

 

I just want to remind you that it was 16 degrees with 40 mph gusts. Plus they didn't let quinn get in a rhythm which he is definably a rhythm style quarterback

[mastadave99999]

I see make a grandiose statement, but totally disregard statistical facts. I like how things are "stupid" when you start a post based upon statistical comparisons not opinion..... sure I could see if you wanted to argue about sample variables.... if you want I can define that for you...... But no its "stupid"......

 

Here let me help you.... the comparable sample variables that were NOT taken into consideration are ; WEATHER..... Different skill players.....opposing teams injuries....... Stadium locations..... total time of qb to skill player saturation in practices.....

 

these variables MIGHT affect the statistical variances in performances that were used as metrics of comparisons..... I suppose if we take wind direction and air density those could have had effects on rotation of the ball increasing or decreasing accuracy..... Wait you could even claimed the air temperature had an effect on fluid dynamics within Brady quinn thereby making his muscles working harder to contract to keep warm affecting his flud delivery of the ball hurting his accuracy..... Maybe it was the coreolis affect on his deep throws that was thrown off by wind gusts because of the architectures of the stadiums create odd wind patterns....

 

I mean seriously it is a rare oppurtunity to compare two qbs who play the exact same two teams in the same season. What was wrong by comparing the STATS side by side? Was it because it does not fit the narrative you want to tell yourself based upon nothing but your "gut" instinct and your visual analysis? sure I know its "stupid" when our team is now has a grand total of 2 wins to look at every position analytically.... Wait lets based this on jersey sales statistics...... I like the still learning and improving statement after three years and his stats have stayed a pretty constant mean average. "right" coaching is used for an excuse for Quinn but DA has had the same and of course he just sucks and the coaches were all there for him too,,,,,, learning... sure even though the relative ages are similar...

By the way I forgot BQ was "NFL" ready played in a "NFL" system touted by the Great Charlie Weis..... hmmmm where again is charlie weis? oh thats right he was fired after tanking...... leading the irish to the worst single season in history....... Sure the tumble in the draft of BQ was all a mistake and the Browns magically found a gem when 20+ franchises passed.......

 

His completion rate and accuracy are awesome and he is a "manager" now and does not lose...... I suppose if you want to spin it that way it makes perfect sense.... He is smart because he does not turn the ball over..... its kind of hard to turn the ball over when you throw checkdowns constantly for low completion rates... Why dont you go pimp his collegiate accolades now or his NFL stats? o wait you want to pick his last three games.... ok lets go randomly pick three games for DA...... you probably would say that was flawed but for Quinn its used as a rebuttal and a final finding.

 

 

Heres a stat for you.

 

Quinn 7 passing tds... Anderson 2...

[trodgers]

^ Don't forget total passing TDs: Quinn 8, Anderson 2

Total TDs: Quinn 9, Anderson 4

Total TOs: Quinn 8, Anderson 12

And every other stat.

[osusev]

wow..... and the variables vs the comparison similarities..... really lets just pick some random sample games with little to no similarity and throw that out there....

 

Let me guess neither of you ever took a statistics course or ever picked up a elementary school book explaining the law of averages or the scientific theory.....

 

every other stat.... ok..... lmao

[osusev]

40 mph winds..... and now he needs rhythm and thats his "style" the only style in the NFL he has is that of low arm strength poor accuracy, tendancy to check down.... stated by almost every announcer or analyst either on the NFL network or ESPN not too mention his pro scouting reports and proven by his low total yards, low td totals, average yds per catch, and the defensive schemes after his firts game vs denver.....

 

You really want to compare total tds with DA or well anything? win loss, yards per catch? tell you what www.NFL.com yea there are these pages with numbers...... game by game analysis and indepth per drive information of every game that BQ or DA played in..... you should really read or do some statistical research....

 

Or you can cherry pick a couple of games and GO gotcha.... burn! or whatever you are hi fiving yourself over your apparent genius..... lmao.

[A_Rytter]

40 mph winds..... and now he needs rhythm and thats his "style" the only style in the NFL he has is that of low arm strength poor accuracy, tendancy to check down.... stated by almost every announcer or analyst either on the NFL network or ESPN not too mention his pro scouting reports and proven by his low total yards, low td totals, average yds per catch, and the defensive schemes after his firts game vs denver.....

 

You really want to compare total tds with DA or well anything? win loss, yards per catch? tell you what www.NFL.com yea there are these pages with numbers...... game by game analysis and indepth per drive information of every game that BQ or DA played in..... you should really read or do some statistical research....

 

Or you can cherry pick a couple of games and GO gotcha.... burn! or whatever you are hi fiving yourself over your apparent genius..... lmao.

 

Oh, totally get the point of using games with the same teams as only valid stats.

 

Like for example the steelers. In their first two games against Cle and Cin the played this guy Named Ben Rothlisberger and he went

 

comp pass TD Int sck

Cle 23 35 66% 2 1 3

Cin 22 31 71% 1 1 1

TOT 45 66 68% 3 2 4

 

To bad for them they had to use a guy called Ben Rothlisberger for the last two meetings with the same teams, the new guy went.

 

comp pass TD Int sck

Cin 20 40 50% 0 1 4

Cle 18 32 56% 0 0 8

TOT 38 72 53% 0 1 12

 

This is all very statistically significant and the steelers should definately use the other guy instead of the one who played on monday.

 

All this is off cause obvious to everybody that has statistical knowledge, which we all know includes reading Brahmagupta and Cardano

 

Ps, Im sorry if my first post is a little rude

[osusev]

Oh, totally get the point of using games with the same teams as only valid stats.

 

Like for example the steelers. In their first two games against Cle and Cin the played this guy Named Ben Rothlisberger and he went

 

comp pass TD Int sck

Cle 23 35 66% 2 1 3

Cin 22 31 71% 1 1 1

TOT 45 66 68% 3 2 4

 

To bad for them they had to use a guy called Ben Rothlisberger for the last two meetings with the same teams, the new guy went.

 

comp pass TD Int sck

Cin 20 40 50% 0 1 4

Cle 18 32 56% 0 0 8

38 72 53% 0 1 12

 

This is all very statistically significant and the steelers should definately use the other guy instead of the one who played on monday.

 

All this is off cause obvious to everybody that has statistical knowledge, which we all know includes reading Brahmagupta and Cardano

 

Ps, Im sorry if my first post is a little rude

 

wow that was so mind blowing I just cant get over it... lol it was a nice attempt.... ok I will go slow for you (ps im sorry the post is a little rude)

 

1 you only used 1 adverserial game as a comparison sample.... which is not enough....... (should have read the very first post)

2 You have a consistent data existing with Ben with simiilar systems and skill players........ um something we dont have with either qb

3 your data was so sparse and you did not blend the data between your samples because well you only chose one sample so you could not

4 if you looked at the factors and cross compared that to the total amount of data from both qbs over the last 2 years the findings from these 4 games only confirm overall trends with both of these guys....

 

I am glad this is your first post because you may have had a "gut" reaction to what you theoretically thought was a witty response.... otherwise known as a fail but nice try.

[A_Rytter]

[/color]

1 you only used 1 adverserial game as a comparison sample.... which is not enough....... (should have read the very first post)

2 You have a consistent data existing with Ben with simiilar systems and skill players........ um something we dont have with either qb

3 your data was so sparse and you did not blend the data between your samples because well you only chose one sample so you could not

4 if you looked at the factors and cross compared that to the total amount of data from both qbs over the last 2 years the findings from these 4 games only confirm overall trends with both of these guys....

 

1,2,3 Beware of Sarcasm (I've read the first post and do know the data is insufficient, hence my referal to the readings)

 

4. both guys? Meaning Both Bens or Anderson Vs. Quinn?

 

 

[osusev]

1,2,3 Beware of Sarcasm (I've read the first post and do know the data is insufficient, hence my referal to the readings)

 

4. both guys? Meaning Both Bens or Anderson Vs. Quinn?

 

beware the sarcasm.... lol seriously?

 

I see this could stretch so lets just cut this and move on. This was a singular season example looking to see if anderson vs quinn in the same season against the same 2 opponents on how they would individually perform as well as the team offense.

 

Quinn was on the losing end in virtually every category save one.. turn over that may have led to points which is quite relevant and only reinforces the belief that DA turns over the ball which hurts us possibly more than the net gain that he obviously brings to our offense.

 

the summation is that while DA is virtually in every relevant category better for the offensive team he hurts the the franchise more because of the turnovers that could lead to points. In the current state it really does not matter because we are losing by more than 2 scores per game however in low scoring tight games Quinn is the better choice.

 

this being the NFL you have to be able to consistently hold on to the ball and convert 3rd downs in order to give you defense breathers... something that the stats say Quinn does not do and that DA does do better. IF we had a Great defense who consistently could hold opponents to sub 14 points/game Quinn is definately the guy because of the turnover factor. That is not the case now nor probably the next year or two so really DA is the better guy statistically for the team.

 

At this time it does not matter and Quinn should stay in for the duration to see if his chemistry and confidence lead him to be a chad pennington type which is better than what he is now. I dont see it and quite frankly never have so I doubt he will get better because I believe he lacks the arm strength and accuracy it takes to be a consistent NFL starter. His overall statistics are very poor and show a major tendency to hit checkdowns (which is obviously why he has a lower turnover rate) and his accuracy to be quite bad. We will see how he does over the next few games and I dont think he is the shoe in starter for next year and one of these guys will be traded.

 

IF I had to bet I would think that Quinn has better trade value because of his contract than DA..... IF he does not significantly improve I could see a mid round draft pick qb and a free agent to be brought in while we draft high for skill players and defense.

[Flugel]

IF I had to bet I would think that Quinn has better trade value because of his contract than DA..... IF he does not significantly improve I could see a mid round draft pick qb and a free agent to be brought in while we draft high for skill players and defense.

 

I think we've all seen enough of DA to firmly understand what he brings or doesn't bring. He's had enough auditions to clearly demonstrate not capable of growth from experience.

 

Now it's Quinn's turn to sink or swim. Sometimes he swims - sometimes he needs a lifeguard. That's poretty much the path of most YOUNG Qbs taking over the starting jobs on franchises in transition. I saw enough in the Lions game to think there could be something there if we could give Quinn the same type of RECEIVER at TE that DA had in 2007. I thought the Quinn and Evan Moore connection worked well vrs San Diego's well respected defense.

 

Troy Aikman said it took him 3 years of starts to get comfortable enough to become the player the franchise had hoped he's become. He said having Jay Novacek was vital to his growth and progress. Hence, can we all at least understand the difference between Robert Royal and Evan Moore? Any team going through struggles at QB need to have that go-to guy or TE. Remember Drew brees BEFORE he had access to Antonio Gates? Didn't the Chargers determine they needed to draft a QB at the top of round 1? Truth is - I'm still learning about Quinn but I'd like to see enough decent variables around him to make an accurate assessment of his performance. I'm starting to see that with less carelessness, less sacks and less turnovers while I'm awaiting a little more accuracy. Sometimes his bad throws are the product of young receivers going inside when they need to be going outside or vice-versa. Others, he just needs to be more accurate.

- Tom F. (Poor Lummy never understood you couldn't beat Pittsburgh being careless at QB. You just can't start a guy that wants to play Santa Claus to their Defense or events like Thursday Night aren't possible)

[Drunkandstoopid]

So far against common opponents, Quinn's stats don't hold up well against DA's, and that's even after the fact that the rest of the offensive unit is starting to show improvement.

 

But that's neither here nor there. The coaches are using Quinn for now. Fine by me. If they trade him or DA this spring, bring in a journeyman and keep one of the two to compete with that guy that's fine by me. If they dump both of them fine by me. If they keep both of them and have another QB competition next fall, fine by me. QB is the least of our worries, at least the rest of the team is showing some improvement finally.

 

An aside.... funny how wind is suddenly an excuse for Quinn, when it wasn't accepted as an excuse for DA by so many on this board.

[osusev]

I think we've all seen enough of DA to firmly understand what he brings or doesn't bring. He's had enough auditions to clearly demonstrate not capable of growth from experience.

 

Now it's Quinn's turn to sink or swim. Sometimes he swims - sometimes he needs a lifeguard. That's poretty much the path of most YOUNG Qbs taking over the starting jobs on franchises in transition. I saw enough in the Lions game to think there could be something there if we could give Quinn the same type of RECEIVER at TE that DA had in 2007. I thought the Quinn and Evan Moore connection worked well vrs San Diego's well respected defense.

 

Troy Aikman said it took him 3 years of starts to get comfortable enough to become the player the franchise had hoped he's become. He said having Jay Novacek was vital to his growth and progress. Hence, can we all at least understand the difference between Robert Royal and Evan Moore? Any team going through struggles at QB need to have that go-to guy or TE. Remember Drew brees BEFORE he had access to Antonio Gates? Didn't the Chargers determine they needed to draft a QB at the top of round 1? Truth is - I'm still learning about Quinn but I'd like to see enough decent variables around him to make an accurate assessment of his performance. I'm starting to see that with less carelessness, less sacks and less turnovers while I'm awaiting a little more accuracy. Sometimes his bad throws are the product of young receivers going inside when they need to be going outside or vice-versa. Others, he just needs to be more accurate.

- Tom F. (Poor Lummy never understood you couldn't beat Pittsburgh being careless at QB. You just can't start a guy that wants to play Santa Claus to their Defense or events like Thursday Night aren't possible)

 

flug all of those same exact things could be said for DA who actually has shown BETTER glimpses more consistently than quinn of offensive potential. Fans who have bought Jersey's are done with DA before he even started..... The statistics show that Quinn is NOT better than DA in fact DA is better in almost every category...... Quinn has a few more auditions we will see if he gets better....... I doubt it because his flaw of arm strength and accuracy..... so far that has been EXACTLY the statistical trends. You could cherry pick last years game against the Giants game for DA or 07 cinci game.... Quinn has had very little positives and quite frankly 70% terrible production.

 

this position with quinn is so far from settled and I doubt that it is a foregone conclusion (as much as BQ fans portend) that DA is gone. I gaurantee that the staff will compare the same exact 4 games in the offseason that I just did and the findings show that quinn is a lesser talent. which also does not say much for DA

[trodgers]

40 mph winds..... and now he needs rhythm and thats his "style" the only style in the NFL he has is that of low arm strength poor accuracy, tendancy to check down.... stated by almost every announcer or analyst either on the NFL network or ESPN not too mention his pro scouting reports and proven by his low total yards, low td totals, average yds per catch, and the defensive schemes after his firts game vs denver.....

 

You really want to compare total tds with DA or well anything? win loss, yards per catch? tell you what www.NFL.com yea there are these pages with numbers...... game by game analysis and indepth per drive information of every game that BQ or DA played in..... you should really read or do some statistical research....

 

Or you can cherry pick a couple of games and GO gotcha.... burn! or whatever you are hi fiving yourself over your apparent genius..... lmao.

I'm not sure whether you're disagreeing with me, but I think you are. And you seem to be suggesting that citing two games, played against the same organization, show definitively that DA is a better QB than BQ.

 

Unfortunately, throughout the season, both have put together a respectable sample size of games and pass attempts. And Quinn has outperformed him. I have the drive-by-drive statistics for this season if you want to look at them. That would be fun. Then you can give me a lesson in statistics. That would also be fun.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I honestly can't believe this argument is going on. Statistically, who gives a ratxxxx which quarterback did better. The chemisty has been better with Quinn in this season, and we can't afford to keep flip-flopping. Quinn turns the ball over less than DA, and to tell you the truth, it's a lot better watching Quinn play than DA. I'm tired of seeing him flounder about in the pocket, and I'm definitely tired of seeing interceptions. I like the guy, I really want him to do well, but I just don't see that happening in Cleveland. You want to argue about stats? Here's a stat:

 

Derek Anderson

0-5 vs. Pittsburgh

 

Brady Quinn

1-0 vs. Pittsburgh

 

There's a stat. You can spin it any way you want, but the fact is Brady Quinn did something DA hasn't been able to do. I honestly think that you people are arguing just to argue. Quinn is far from perfect, and he still makes me cringe. But he's getting better, it shows. More importantly, the team is getting better with him under center. He's learning the receivers, the receivers are learning him. We throw another QB in the mix, and we're just xxxxing everything up. Sure, he's no Peyton Manning, he's no Drew Brees, he's no Brett Favre, he's no Tom Brady. But there are 32 teams in the league, and most of them get along pretty well without a superstar QB. He's keeping the ball safe, and that's the first step to success. We're not good enough to give our opponents extra chances. Eliminating those turnoves has been keeping us in games as of late. So why is there still an argument?

[osusev]

I'm not sure whether you're disagreeing with me, but I think you are. And you seem to be suggesting that citing two games, played against the same organization, show definitively that DA is a better QB than BQ.

 

Unfortunately, throughout the season, both have put together a respectable sample size of games and pass attempts. And Quinn has outperformed him. I have the drive-by-drive statistics for this season if you want to look at them. That would be fun. Then you can give me a lesson in statistics. That would also be fun.

 

wow you have the drive by drive statistics for this season.....

tell you what why dont you put up all of his stats from all of his starts and than post the average mean for yds per catch, completion percentages, passing yds per game, tds, ints and also post the mean averages for total offensive production for rushing along with win loss for the team

 

Than you can do the same for anderson to compare the mean averages for total combined starts and compare total samples...

 

because from your response i assume you took some statistics courses so post the mean averages and we can go from there since you said you have the drive by drive statistics....

[trodgers]

Season Totals:

 

Drives: Quinn 85, Anderson 69

Plays: Quinn 466, Anderson 329

Time of Possession: Quinn 12533 seconds, Anderson 9208 seconds

Yards: Quinn 2034, Anderson 1318

Plays per Possession: Quinn 5.5, Anderson 4.8

Yards per Possession: Quinn 23.9, Anderson 19.1

Time per Possession: Quinn 147 seconds, Anderson 133 seconds

% of drives ending in FGA: Quinn 11.8%, Anderson 8.7%

% of drives ending in TD: Quinn 11.8%, Anderson 5.8%

% of drives ending in INT: Quinn 5.9%, Anderson 14.5%

% of drives ending in Fumble: Quinn 4.7%, Anderson 10.1%

% of drives ending in Downs: Quinn 2.4%, Anderson 2.9%

% of drives ending due to Time: Quinn 7.1%, Anderson 10.1%

% of drives ending in Punt: Quinn 55.3%, Anderson 47.8%

Points Generated (7 per TD drive, 3 per FG drive): Quinn 100, Anderson 46

Points Per Drive (using above numbers): Quinn 1.2, Anderson 0.7

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

wow you have the drive by drive statistics for this season.....

tell you what why dont you put up all of his stats from all of his starts and than post the average mean for yds per catch, completion percentages, passing yds per game, tds, ints and also post the mean averages for total offensive production for rushing along with win loss for the team

 

Than you can do the same for anderson to compare the mean averages for total combined starts and compare total samples...

 

because from your response i assume you took some statistics courses so post the mean averages and we can go from there since you said you have the drive by drive statistics....

 

 

I've taken quite a few courses in Statistics, and the main thing I've learned from each of my professors is one simple rule: statistics are malleable. They can be shaped any way to benefit whomever a person chooses. Also, statistics cannot be compared on a year-by-year basis in the NFL. They can barely be compared on a game-by-game basis. There are too many variables involved. The personnel changes will be a factor, the coaching changes (especially in Cleveland) will be a factor, the weather fluctuations will be a factor, the gameplan changes will be a factor. Even if everything was held constant for the Browns, you'd still have to factor in all aforementioned factors in relation to the other team. Furthermore, you'd have to factor in at what point in the season was each game played at, whether or not we were in playoff contention, whether or not our opposing team was in playoff contention, whether or not there was some emotional trauma inflicted upon either team that could resort in a morale boost (a "Win one for the Gipper" paradigm, if you will), whether or not any of our players had previously suffered an injury by the hands of a member of the opposition causing them to yearn for retribution, etc. The amount of variables is innumerable, and it is ever changing. And I've taken numerous Economics courses, so I know you can cop-out and throw "Ceteris paribus" in the mix, and that should account for all the variable changes. But the fact of the matter is, you can't hold everything else constant. That's the beauty of sports. You can't try to rationalize it with numbers and statistics. There will always be variables, and they always have to be accounted for. The only statistics that matter are the number of ticks in the "W" column, and the number of ticks in the "L" column.

 

By the way, the mean is the average. You don't have to say "mean average" or "average mean". That's just overkill. That's like asking for the amount of completed passes completed, or the amount of TD's thrown that resulted in a TD.

[trodgers]

^ Well, some people say "average" and mean median or (sometimes even) mode. I know that post wasn't intended for me, but I do think statistics are useful and can be used to make one take notice of things that one might not see during the game. It's easy to see wins and losses, but it's hard to see the cumulative effects of a player on things like how sustained drives are, etc.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

^ Well, some people say "average" and mean median or (sometimes even) mode. I know that post wasn't intended for me, but I do think statistics are useful and can be used to make one take notice of things that one might not see during the game. It's easy to see wins and losses, but it's hard to see the cumulative effects of a player on things like how sustained drives are, etc.

 

 

The "average" isn't the same as the median or the mode. Those are other measures of central tendency. The point I was trying to make is that he was saying "post the average means" or "post the mean averages", when he could have just said "post the mean" or "post the average". But the semantics are trivial.

 

And believe me, nobody knows the importance of statistics moreso than myself. Up until last year, I was majoring in Statistics with a minor in Actuarial Sciences. I know and love statistics, for the most part. What I was trying to say is that, the beauty of football is that statistics aren't necessarily representative of the game in which they are recorded. Take our most recent game, for example.

 

Ben Roethlisberger

18-32 201 YDS 0 TD 0 INT

 

Brady Quinn

6-19 90 YDS 0 TD 0 INT

 

Just judging from those stats, the ones most commonly shown and quoted, which QB would you guess had been victorious? I agree though, statistics can be used to show things that people might not see during the course of a game. The thing I don't like is when people look at the generalized statistics and claim one QB is better than another, completely disregarding all variables. I think the statistics you posted are very representative of the season thus far, though. For the most part, I believe the statistics you posted previously are a better representative of a game than the ones that are commonly jammed down people's throats day in and day out.

[trodgers]

Way off topic, but even if "average" means "median" exclusively in stats, "average" as used in the real world (advertising, for instance) does include all those measures. For what it's worth, searching "average" on Wikipedia shows all three values. Consider saying "The average rush gains fewer than 4 yards." If 80% of the rushes in football gain three or fewer yards, it looks fine to me to make that claim, even if the mean is 4.01 yards because long runs push it up over that. I concede, however that the semantics being trivial.

 

As for the stats I posted, I started tracking those during preseason, when the numbers were less clearly in favor of Quinn. It's nice to see that with his past few strong games, he has a clear lead there. It reinforces what many of us are seeing: the team is simply playing better as a whole right now than they have at any other prior point during the season.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Way off topic, but even if "average" means "median" exclusively in stats, "average" as used in the real world (advertising, for instance) does include all those measures. For what it's worth, searching "average" on Wikipedia shows all three values. Consider saying "The average rush gains fewer than 4 yards." If 80% of the rushes in football gain three or fewer yards, it looks fine to me to make that claim, even if the mean is 4.01 yards because long runs push it up over that. I concede, however that the semantics being trivial.

 

As for the stats I posted, I started tracking those during preseason, when the numbers were less clearly in favor of Quinn. It's nice to see that with his past few strong games, he has a clear lead there. It reinforces what many of us are seeing: the team is simply playing better as a whole right now than they have at any other prior point during the season.

 

 

In statistics terminology, the average is the mean, not the median. But I can see what you mean as far as some people considering either the mean, median or mode to be the "average". I never really thought of it that way before. It just depends on which way they want to skew the data, I guess. Which does reinforce my point that statistics are easy to manipulate, but that doesn't matter. I'm not trying to argue by any means, just present my view.

 

As for your stats, they definitely reinforce the belief that the team is maturing with Quinn at the helm. Be prepared to have Quinn haters throw out those stats, though. Some people just love to argue. I don't understand the unfounded hatred for Quinn, he's done nothing but try since he's been in Cleveland. I can understand why people are frustrated with his performance in the past, but he's been getting better since he was pulled at halftime of the Baltimore game.

[kshutchins]

In statistics terminology, the average is the mean, not the median. But I can see what you mean as far as some people considering either the mean, median or mode to be the "average". I never really thought of it that way before. It just depends on which way they want to skew the data, I guess. Which does reinforce my point that statistics are easy to manipulate, but that doesn't matter. I'm not trying to argue by any means, just present my view.

 

As for your stats, they definitely reinforce the belief that the team is maturing with Quinn at the helm. Be prepared to have Quinn haters throw out those stats, though. Some people just love to argue. I don't understand the unfounded hatred for Quinn, he's done nothing but try since he's been in Cleveland. I can understand why people are frustrated with his performance in the past, but he's been getting better since he was pulled at halftime of the Baltimore game.

 

Okay. for anyone who read the first sentence and thought, "What?" Tim's right; Average and mean are the same thing. Median is the middle value in a list from lowest to highest. Mode is the most frequent value. For example, if you are averaging grades and your test scores are: 100, 100, 100, 80, 75. The mean (average) is 91. The median is 100 and the mode is 100. What this should tell you about the average is that very few poor performances are part of the stats. (Or there was at least one stinker of a performance, depending on your point of view.) Same would be true of passing or running yards.

 

I'm not a big fan of stats because I have a hard time extracting valuable information from lists or charts of numbers but for some reason those three definitions stuck with me from statistics class many moons ago.

[osusev]

wow i see you used a completely different set comparative findings than anything in this post..... which again is you selecting specific figures to back up your proposition probably influenced by your opinion...

 

Semantics lol...... ok if you want I can use the terminology arithmetic mean.....whats funny is it virtually changes nothing in the context except for being redundant.... if you look at where the sarcasm of the posts and the fact that frankly i am being a prick........ funny

 

i have not had a chance to look at your sample DIFFERENT subject comparisons.... lol

 

tell you what I am at lunch now but later tonight i will go thru the stats you posted and since you did not even use the same comparative samples i will see if i can cobble it togeather... lmao it was a decent attempt at misdirecting the original comparative AVERAGEs... lol

[lodilobo]

wow i see you used a completely different set comparative findings than anything in this post..... which again is you selecting specific figures to back up your proposition probably influenced by your opinion...

 

Semantics lol...... ok if you want I can use the terminology arithmetic mean.....whats funny is it virtually changes nothing in the context except for being redundant.... if you look at where the sarcasm of the posts and the fact that frankly i am being a prick........ funny

 

i have not had a chance to look at your sample DIFFERENT subject comparisons.... lol

 

tell you what I am at lunch now but later tonight i will go thru the stats you posted and since you did not even use the same comparative samples i will see if i can cobble it togeather... lmao it was a decent attempt at misdirecting the original comparative AVERAGEs... lol

When I commented on this post earlier and referred to it as a "stupid post", I didn't necessarilly mean that the post was constructed in a less than intelligent manner....I just meant that the DA vs. BQ debate was not really relevant at this point, due to several things..... other problems surrounding the qb position.....the changes made in personnel since the last qb switch, etc. However....this has now become a really stupid post.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

When I commented on this post earlier and referred to it as a "stupid post", I didn't necessarilly mean that the post was constructed in a less than intelligent manner....I just meant that the DA vs. BQ debate was not really relevant at this point, due to several things..... other problems surrounding the qb position.....the changes made in personnel since the last qb switch, etc. However....this has now become a really stupid post.

 

 

Thank you. I agree completely. There should be no argument over BQ vs. DA, it's like trying to argue Matt Cassel vs. Brodie Croyle, or Chad Henne vs. Tyler Thigpen. The starter starts, and the backup rides the pine. Nobody on that list, BQ and DA included, could be confused with "superstars". Whoever gives us the best chance to win starts, and right now it seems to be BQ.

 

He's just a prick trying to be a prick, and completely disregarding anything that is opposing his view of "who the better QB is".

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

wow i see you used a completely different set comparative findings than anything in this post..... which again is you selecting specific figures to back up your proposition probably influenced by your opinion...

 

The stats presented were a better representation of game management by both QB's thus far in the season than any other stats that were posted in this topic previously.

Semantics lol...... ok if you want I can use the terminology arithmetic mean.....whats funny is it virtually changes nothing in the context except for being redundant.... if you look at where the sarcasm of the posts and the fact that frankly i am being a prick........ funny

 

 

The whole point of me talking about semantics was to point out that you were being redundant. Furthermore, this "sentence" is grammatically Retarded.

 

tell you what I am at lunch now but later tonight i will go thru the stats you posted and since you did not even use the same comparative samples i will see if i can cobble it togeather... lmao it was a decent attempt at misdirecting the original comparative AVERAGEs... lol

 

So what I can gather from this clusterxxxx of the english language is that we're not allowed to use stats that paint Quinn in a favorable light, while you're allowed to use any stats that even remotely make Anderson look better. How many times has Derek Anderson beaten the Steelers?

 

 

 

 

[mastadave99999]

Guys Guys Guys

 

Lets relax here. The truth is we are going learn a lot about this browns frachise before the seasons over and were in for a huge offseason so get excited. We need to stop pointing fingers until we know what we have.

 

All I know is that Brady Quinn has been showing promise and has gone 4 straight games without an interception. Plus he has thrown seven tds and one rush td over the past 4 games.

 

Regardless of his struggles, he is a hard worker a dedicated brown.

 

Heres to the Browns Guys. I'm looking forward to the conclusion of this season and especially this offseason.

 

Thanks Guys