The Worst Coaching Hire Ever?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

See this is the problem I have with Mangini haters....No substance to there arguments, and when someone uses facts they automatically get really pissy....you are all sheep please keep listening to ESPN and stomping your feet its quite entertaining.

 

Amen.

[4flat]

I don't think you made up the word"fanblole" today, unless you simultaneously got it published in the urban dictionary.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanbole

[roach]

Worst Coaches ever in Cleveland?

 

Nick Skorich. When you shitcan a coach that has an overall winning record AND the entire fanbase is behind you, that is a bad coach. He was. He lost with good talent. Think about that......

 

Who thinks Mangini has enough talent to be ahead of the Bengals, Ravens or Steelers? If so, who and why?

[JoeSixPat]

Nick Skorich. When you shitcan a coach that has an overall winning record AND the entire fanbase is behind you, that is a bad coach. He was. He lost with good talent. Think about that......

 

Who thinks Mangini has enough talent to be ahead of the Bengals, Ravens or Steelers? If so, who and why?

 

I think you're missing the point.

 

There are some who legitimately look at Cleveland and what Mangni has done in terms of his moves... deciding that he didn't need Sanchez at #5 and instead banking on the fact that one of his two QBs would be good enough to lead the team out of thd dolldrums with the other QB serving as a tradeable commodity.

 

There are some who legiimately think that Cleveland is now without Sanchez, who though an inconisistent rookie, looks to have some good potential, while also noting that Mangini's handling of the QB situation, pledging to give the winner of the competition the time and support needed to succeed, then pulling him after 2 games and DESTROYING the trade value of BOTH Anderson and Quinn, hasn't exactly left the team stronger than when Mangini joined the team.

 

There are also some who feel that Mangini's leadership skills as a coach are somewhat suspect, mishandling a litany of issues including starting off by needlessly and pointlessly ruffling the feathers of one of the few good players that Cleveland has

 

There are some who feel that Mangini has established the Browns as the Raiders Central affiliate - with some players reportedly telling their agents that they want to play "anywhere but Cleveland" since noting how badly Mangnini is running the show down there.

 

And they question the character and intelligence of someone who would have the poor judgement to recommend and hire his best buddy and old roomate Kokinis and then throw HIM under the bus at Game 8

 

And all thats just the tip of the iceberg

 

I don't think they're getting overly caught up in comparing personnel to the Steelers and Ravens.

[roach]

I think you're missing the point.

 

Joe, i think you're missing the point. You typed alot of words that likely nobody will read. i stopped at the above. Perhaps others will proceed.

[JoeSixPat]

Joe, i think you're missing the point. You typed alot of words that likely nobody will read. i stopped at the above. Perhaps others will proceed.

 

Good to know that the reading comprehension here is so limited... why there must have been almost 100 words there.

 

I'll make note of that in the future.

[steel88]

I think you're missing the point.

 

There are some who legitimately look at Cleveland and what Mangni has done in terms of his moves... deciding that he didn't need Sanchez at #5 and instead banking on the fact that one of his two QBs would be good enough to lead the team out of thd dolldrums with the other QB serving as a tradeable commodity.

 

There are some who legiimately think that Cleveland is now without Sanchez, who though an inconisistent rookie, looks to have some good potential, while also noting that Mangini's handling of the QB situation, pledging to give the winner of the competition the time and support needed to succeed, then pulling him after 2 games and DESTROYING the trade value of BOTH Anderson and Quinn, hasn't exactly left the team stronger than when Mangini joined the team.

 

There are also some who feel that Mangini's leadership skills as a coach are somewhat suspect, mishandling a litany of issues including starting off by needlessly and pointlessly ruffling the feathers of one of the few good players that Cleveland has

 

There are some who feel that Mangini has established the Browns as the Raiders Central affiliate - with some players reportedly telling their agents that they want to play "anywhere but Cleveland" since noting how badly Mangnini is running the show down there.

 

And they question the character and intelligence of someone who would have the poor judgement to recommend and hire his best buddy and old roomate Kokinis and then throw HIM under the bus at Game 8

 

And all thats just the tip of the iceberg

 

I don't think they're getting overly caught up in comparing personnel to the Steelers and Ravens.

 

Again all you're doing is spewing the same crap ESPN has been feeding you....truth is no one knows what is going on in berea or what happened with kokinis and thats the way mangini wants it. I agree totally with not letting your dirty laundry out in the public, people dont need to know whats going on behind close doors and that upsets the media which is why your argument is so flaky can't have an unbiased opinion against the guy who isnt letting you do your job. On top of all that you're a pats fan so you also have an axe to grind with mangini thats cool everyone has someone they just dont like, but you coming in here and talking like everything you say is fact is complete crap.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Again all you're doing is spewing the same crap ESPN has been feeding you....truth is no one knows what is going on in berea or what happened with kokinis and thats the way mangini wants it. I agree totally with not letting your dirty laundry out in the public, people dont need to know whats going on behind close doors and that upsets the media which is why your argument is so flaky can't have an unbiased opinion against the guy who isnt letting you do your job. On top of all that you're a pats fan so you also have an axe to grind with mangini thats cool everyone has someone they just dont like, but you coming in here and talking like everything you say is fact is complete crap.

 

 

I agree. So many people are ready to give Mangini crap, when they themselves can't think of anyting better to do than "Draft Sanchez and Maualuga". It's really getting to be annoying. Furthermore, what is a Pats' fan even doing on this board? Isn't there a multitude of other Pats' fans ready to blow you because you guys are the coolest people in the nation?

 

 

[JoeSixPat]

That's some good Kool Aid you's all drinkin in Cleveland!

 

Mangini - the defacto GM who chose the last GM and will choose the next, has the players and team going in the right direction.

 

Maybe the things that a lot of players are saying privately - and publicly - are just figments of our imagination... and the fact that some teams Defenses have score more TDs than the Browns offense.

 

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/spor...find-each-other

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...m-in-cleveland/

 

Per McCormick, Hood didn't provide chapter-and-verse particulars. But Hood said he'd never encountered anything like it during his seven NFL seasons.

 

 

"I don't want to go into it specifically. The owner is a good guy, and the organization in years past, but now they've got some people in there that's not running it the way it should be," Hood explained. "I've never experienced football [like that]. I came from two good organizations in Philly and Arizona, and I'd never seen football handled the way it was when I was there."

 

The unspoken target of Hood's attack is, clearly, coach Eric Mangini. Though some might think Mangini has become a pin cushion for criticism because of the way he handles the media, we get the sense that it runs much deeper than that. A league source recently told us that former G.M. George Kokinis "changed" once he arrived in Cleveland, and that he seemed aloof and always fearful. The source believes that Kokinis changed due to the stress of working with (for) Mangini.

 

And while we heard in the wake of the team's first and only win of the year that Mangini had changed for the better, another source told us that Mangini fairly quickly went back the other way.

 

That said, there likely are more than a few players who don't have a problem with the way Mangini is running the Browns. For Mangini's sake, it would be nice if one or more of them would stand up and prop up the team's embattled coach.

[steel88]

That's some good Kool Aid you's all drinkin in Cleveland!

 

Mangini - the defacto GM who chose the last GM and will choose the next, has the players and team going in the right direction.

 

Maybe the things that a lot of players are saying privately - and publicly - are just figments of our imagination... and the fact that some teams Defenses have score more TDs than the Browns offense.

 

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/spor...find-each-other

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...m-in-cleveland/

 

figured you wouldn't have a reply

[JoeSixPat]

figured you wouldn't have a reply

 

No I'm agreeing with you. It's all fiction.

 

In fact, it's right out of a book and movie (fiction of course)

 

Didn't you see the screenplay? Andy Richter plays the coach.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf...land_brown.html

 

What to call it: The Man Who Fires Goats?

 

Got a crazy book idea. Actually, forget the book and let's go straight to the TV mini-series. A camera-resistant owner (Richard Dreyfuss) of a 1-7 football team just parted ways with his second general manager in less than a year.

 

In the furor over yet another losing season, he tries to head off a protest by meeting with two disgruntled fans.

 

As an entire football-loving city awaits answers from the owner about the latest sign of chaos in his organization, the first one to speak on behalf of the man in charge is one of the aforementioned fans who used to go to games dressed like a French fry.

 

He appears on a newspaper Web site wearing what looks to be a fuzzy bone hat.

 

Some people give the owner credit for recognizing his hiring mistakes so quickly. Others have even lower standards. They're simply happy he didn't hire the bone hat guy as a consultant.

 

The owner is not comfortable facing a wider audience of inquisitors concerning how his team has unraveled so soon under the coach he coveted (Andy Richter). Greater transparency in the organization is one of the owner's latest stated goals...just not now.

 

No one doubts the owner means well. You'd probably even like to have a beer with the guy. But the situation is so far beyond giving him credit for meaning well.

 

Reed Saxon/Associated PressIs that a devil-may-care gleam in our make-believe coach's eye? Or just another amused reference to following the "process" of rebuilding/decimating a venerated franchise?A husband who enrolls his wife in Weight Watcher's classes as a birthday surprise might mean well, too. But, yo, pal, what were you thinking?

 

The owner's stated goal is to hire an experienced, credible football man to lead his organization -- this less than a year after hearing a call for an experienced, credible football man to lead his organization and instead hiring a just-fired coach first.

 

Worse, his last coach (Forrest Whitaker) is showing up in Coors Light commercials on TV while the owner's current team is driving people to the beer fridge.

 

And it's so bad now some people are pining for the last guy, whose 4-12 record looks like the stairway to heaven.

 

The owner's No. 1 running back (Jamal Lewis as himself in his first post-retirement acting role) says he has an idea for how to run a franchise. His model? He says he'd model it after the one run by the city's Public Enemy No. 1 -- let's call him Art -- who took the team to another city in the mid-90s. Beautiful.

 

In a two-week period the team has been outscored 61-9; the GM no one knew is gone; the quarterback's passer rating is officially subterranean; the coach assures everyone the organization is as strong as it's ever been in losing seven of eight games; and in an email interview, the owner responds to a list of questions and says he doesn't see any scenario where the head coach won't return next season.

 

I don't want to give away all the planned episodes. But in one, the frustration of the team's fans continue with a late-season petition in favor of the down-on-his-luck, somewhat wild and wacky former star quarterback taking an expanded role in the organization despite no NFL front office experience.

 

The first casting call for that role is expected to go to Michael Richards.

 

In REAL life, all is well.

 

However it is a mystery how something that should have been posted by ESPN made it onto Cleveland.com because everyone in Cleveland knows everything's going as planned. It's only the national and ESPN folks that think things are in disarray.

[Kosar_For_President]

Some things that make me optimistic about Mangini, even half-way into a miserable season:

1. He seems like a smart problem-solver. Once he has the talent, I don't see him losing many games by having the wrong gameplan.

2. He's disciplined (unlike Crennel) without being an asshole (like Butch Davis). I love how few penalties we've committed this year. I'm worried about mistaken assignments on defense explaining some of those huge plays against us. But I have to think that over time Rob Ryan + Mangini is going to give us a strong defense, especially if we draft some playmakers.

3. I like his emphasis on players with character and reasonable intelligence who put football first, players like Cribbs, Wimbley, and Massaquoi. His emphasis on players who can play multiple positions has already proven helpful.

4. In spite of all the drama this season, I think of Mangini as (more or less) even-tempered and an upstanding guy. Yes, it's nice having the fiery Ryan as def coordinator, but that sort of character can quickly become Tom Cable before you know it, and you just don't want that at the helm.

 

Wrong game plan? Ask a Jets fan, I've been to some boards. The team quit on the guy at the end of last season (except for the ones playing for the Browns this year of course). The Jets gave up 122 points at the end of the season after having a good defense all year. Sure you can have a game plan to win, but if you're a prick and your players quit?

 

Too few penalties! LOL. They have 52 (28th) and 428 yards (24th). Being ranked 32nd in the league in passing with 972 yards we have 1/2 the amount of passing yards FOR THE YEAR in penalties. Not only that it seems all of these penalties are at the worst possible time, drive stoppers.

 

Players with character. There is a quote from Lavarious Coles in my previous post that states those "character" guys are actually guys that like Mangini. Why else would someone bring in scrubs like he did from the Jets that NO ONE ELSE wanted to play for this team? Because of character? Give me a break.

 

In spite of all the drama. Blah, Blah, Blah. The drama HE created. Instead of creating drama, him and Daballs need to work on getting a first down.

[steel88]

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/...yer.php?id=6342

 

Does that look like the team hates mangini at all?......the answer is no.

[Kosar_For_President]

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/...yer.php?id=6342

 

Does that look like the team hates mangini at all?......the answer is no.

 

LOL, any video on the other 7 losses? I envision Cribbs walking past Mangini saying "what the f*ck was that".

 

Why is Cribbs talking? Why isn't Mangini, lol. Yep he's a leader.

 

It's ok (pat on head), no one is going to think less of you as a Browns fans to admit Learner got this wrong.

[steel88]

LOL, any video on the other 7 losses? I envision Cribbs walking past Mangini saying "what the f*ck was that".

 

Why is Cribbs talking? Why isn't Mangini, lol. Yep he's a leader.

 

It's ok (pat on head), no one is going to think less of you as a Browns fans to admit Learner got this wrong.

 

I might if you guys had any other reasoning then "well were losing, and ESPN says its because of mangini." but you dont so Ill continue to watch the games and then be entertained by the espn sheep on here.

[JoeSixPat]

LOL, any video on the other 7 losses? I envision Cribbs walking past Mangini saying "what the f*ck was that".

 

Why is Cribbs talking? Why isn't Mangini, lol. Yep he's a leader.

 

It's ok (pat on head), no one is going to think less of you as a Browns fans to admit Learner got this wrong.

 

What you don't seem to understand is that when Cleveland sportswriters compare Mangnini's leadership to a situation comedy, they mean that in the most respectful way possible - as a sign of endearment.

 

Ask any Steelers or Ravens fan - they'll tell you all is well too!

 

Drink the Kool Aid. Join us!

 

And where has Zombo been through all this? I miss him showing everyone how Heterosexual he is by gashing gays!

[Kosar_For_President]

I might if you guys had any other reasoning then "well were losing, and ESPN says its because of mangini." but you dont so Ill continue to watch the games and then be entertained by the espn sheep on here.

 

I've posted several times on the issue.

[steel88]

I've posted several times on the issue.

 

I know and Ive seen your reasons, they're flaky at best.

[Flugel]

You call a player the worst ever, a coach a genius, a general manager an idiot -- these are probably fanboles.

But one of the fun things about a fanbole is that sometimes, after uttering one (or tweeting one), you will find that after you think about it for a while -- hey, you know what? -- you ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT.

 

I recently tweeted this: "Another one of those fan maybe-overstatement-maybe-not thoughts: Eric Mangini was the worst NFL head coach hire in 25 years."

 

Now, I'll admit -- that's pure fanbole.

 

But here's the thing: Based on the Twitter responses I've seen ... I'm actually starting to believe that I'm right. I'm actually starting to believe that Mangini really was the worst head coach hire in 25 years. The responses have mostly been to list other coaches who were worse hires than Mangini. But you know what? I don't think any of those hires WERE worse than Mangini. Remember:

 

1. Mangini had just been fired in New York, where he had done a terrible job. He had a losing record.

 

 

I couldn't get past #1 if we're gonna assassinate the guy's ability. NY made the playoffs in his 1st year so they had a winning record. And then in his 3rd season there, they won 10 games. Point I'm making is this guy WON every season he had a GOOD starting QB that was also healthy.

 

If I look at the Bill Belichick that we once couldn't wait to prematurely conclude could NOT coach - he too was goo EVERY time he had a good QB that was healthy. Vinny went 11-5 the only season he stayed healthy in Cleveland and he beat NE in round 1 of the playoffs. The other 4 years looked alot like our team THIS year. Speaking of BB as a Head Coach, his start in NE did not resemble NFL Utopia untile the day Tom Brady took over a winless team when a has-been QB got injured.

 

The IRONY for BB and his pupil is that even though they are from the Defensive side of the ball - their defenses didn't mean squat until they had a right talented QB making sure the offense put enough points on the board to collect the Ws.

 

Coming into the 2009 draft we had depleted depth with a handful of talented players. Usually when something like this unfolds - a fanbase looks forward to alot of draft picks right? How many did Savage leave us with for the 2009 draft? The right answer is 4 draft picks following these 5 guys Savage drafted in 08: (Beau Bell, Martin Rucker, Ahtyba Rubin, Paul Hubbard, and Alex Hall). You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize we didn't have ANY picks before rd 4 in 08. Aside from that, there's really only 2 keepers from that entire draft that we can't call starters on a team with 1 win today.

 

THIS is where we gotta be careful on claiming Mangin should be fired as a Head Coach without REALLY looking into the attempt to turn a shitty hand into something better. Someone doubled 4 draft picks into 8 for 2009 while adding starters from the Jets D that finished with 10 wins in 08. If anyone wants to pretend they happy with Braylon in Cleveland now that he is gone - fill me in. The Jets are 1-3 since he arrived when they were 3-1 BEFORE he arrived. What did we get for removing the distractions on and off the field? 2 more draft picks for 2010, 1 STs player that rotates in our starting lineup on D and Chansi Stuckey that might still pan out here.

 

So what else do I have? Let's take a look:

1) Cribbs is playing his best football yet

2) Joe Thomas sutout the following guys: Jared Allen, Antwaan Odoms, James Harrison, and Aaron Schobel.

3) Kam Wimbley is back to sacking the QB the way he did as a rookie and looking better than ever.

4) Alex Mack continues to improve

5) When Rogers is healthy - he's unstoppable. When he's NOT - his young backup is doing a WAY better job on the Apex than we saw in 2008.

6) The first 7 games showed me a much less penalized team than I have seen.

7) Jackson was arguably playing his best football in 09.

 

Are we shooting the RIGHT villain here or does Savage get the same quiet magic carpet ride out of town that Carmen Policy got? The person we need to HOLD accountable for the front office looking like a lost "I Love Lucy" episode is Randy Lerner. Get an experience GM/Pres type in here so Mangini can focus on being the Head Coach we'd hoped he'd be. If he's feeling the need to be MORE than a Head Coach is because of a chaotic environment we can only blame the owner for.

- Tom F.

[dencyguy]

This is just the same crap that's been going on all year with that mean ol' national media, which apparently has nothing better to do than to slander poor Eric Mangini.

 

--Browns picked at the bottom of the power rankings? Nonsense, they've just been keeping their cards close to the vest. To be honest, I'm thinking the team can go 10-6 this year.

--All those stories about alienating players? BS! Players need to know who's boss, and Mangini has shown that he's the man in Cleveland.

--Refusing to name a starter? Who cares? He knows who the starter is. Not letting a QB get the starter's reps only keeps the other teams guessing. Besides, all those media experts who said that the move was "questionable," "counterproductive," or "borderline Retarded" were only upset because they didn't get their story.

 

And it's only gotten worse. Despite the fact that the team has shown continuous improvement and is this close to breaking through, all those high-and-mighty media people keep sneering down their noses and calling the Browns "dysfunctional" and "inept." You want to know what I call it? Proactive! Sure, they could have held pat and stuck with one QB, but they've said no...we're not going to play like that. When Quinn didn't light it up, they went with Anderson. Then they stuck with him, and now the "experts" are questioning that one too. Which way do you want it, guys? If you're going to rip Mangini for pulling a guy who goes 6-8, you can't turn around and rip him for sticking with a guy who goes 2-17, now can you? It's a little thing called "consistency."

 

Want more proactive? Most teams would keep their lackey GM around for at least an entire season. Not the Browns. Mangini and Lerner knew they could do better, so they did something about it. Bev from Account Temps is doing a swell job, thank you very much, and that bowl of Bit-o-Honeys she put on the front desk of the office has been a real crowd-pleaser.

 

So yes, national media and Steeler fans, say what you will about the Browns. Those of us who actually take the time to watch the team know that we're just about to turn the corner. And when we do, we'll laugh in your faces.

 

Dennis

Seriously, though, anyone who looks at the current state/trajectory of the Browns and sees it as anything less than a colossal cluster that will take at least a couple of years to fix--and that's after overhauling the organization--should go to their local DA's office and have "Do Not Execute" tattooed on their foreheads just to be on the safe side.

[steel88]

"1. Mangini had just been fired in New York, where he had done a terrible job. He had a losing record. His team had collapsed down the stretch, he had alienated his players, he was a pain in the neck to deal with. Point is: He'd already PROVEN how much damage he could do as a coach.

 

2. He came right out of the school of Bill Belichick ... and that didn't work THE FIRST TIME in Cleveland. It seems to me that Cleveland is a working-class town and Browns fans want a working-class coach -- not some pompous know-it-all who doesn't feel like he should have to explain to the commoners what he's doing.

 

3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

 

4. Basically the first thing Mangini did -- first thing -- was have them tear down a mural of great Cleveland Browns players on the wall in the Browns offices. Now, there are differing opinions about what really happened, whose fault it really was, does it all matter, etc. You know what? The Cleveland Browns have never been to a Super Bowl. Never. Not one. But Browns fans still have a whole lot of pride. Browns fans grow up on a glorious history. If you allow something stupid like that to happen on your watch ... just a horrendous hire."

 

1. Mangini won 2 out of 3 years in NY, and had a better record last year at this point then rex ryan does with the same team.

 

2. Maybe its time cleveland fans get over this I for one would love to have Bill belichick as our coach right now and his superbowl championships to be here in cleveland and not in new england

 

3. I agree with this but belichick was grooming mangini to replace him in the future. That does say something.

 

4. LOL he moved it to the front of the main office in berea where EVERYONE can see it

[Elbamboozler]

Seriously I don't believe that Mangini was the worst coaching hire ever. If you been watching the games you see that the WR are running the wrong routes and dropping passes. The quaterbacks have absolutely have no time at all and there is no holes for either of the running backs to run. Yea sure Mangini drafted this year but there is no way in hell that you can expect them to develop into stars. Also if you remember Crennel was the coach last year and he wasn't strict at all so most of our players aren't gonna be use to the stlye of Mangini the first. SO there is no way he is the worst hire ever.

 

P.S Does anyone remember the hire before lane Kiffin. Art Shell do we really wanna become the raiders if we fire him already?

[professor_g]

Wrong game plan? Ask a Jets fan, I've been to some boards. The team quit on the guy at the end of last season (except for the ones playing for the Browns this year of course). The Jets gave up 122 points at the end of the season after having a good defense all year. Sure you can have a game plan to win, but if you're a prick and your players quit?

 

Too few penalties! LOL. They have 52 (28th) and 428 yards (24th). Being ranked 32nd in the league in passing with 972 yards we have 1/2 the amount of passing yards FOR THE YEAR in penalties. Not only that it seems all of these penalties are at the worst possible time, drive stoppers.

 

Players with character. There is a quote from Lavarious Coles in my previous post that states those "character" guys are actually guys that like Mangini. Why else would someone bring in scrubs like he did from the Jets that NO ONE ELSE wanted to play for this team? Because of character? Give me a break.

 

In spite of all the drama. Blah, Blah, Blah. The drama HE created. Instead of creating drama, him and Daballs need to work on getting a first down.

 

My impression was that they were doing better than that on penalties. I've got to figure out how to look these things up.

 

So, e.g., David Bowens isn't really a character guy? Is that what you're saying? I have no problem with Mangini bringing in intelligent, experienced guys like that who love football and want to be mentors. That's precisely what is needed during rebuilding.

 

I still think Mangini is smart enough that he's not going to get outcoached very often, once the talent is here. But, you're right, the first step is to mastermind a few more first downs.

[Kosar_For_President]

6) The first 7 games showed me a much less penalized team than I have seen.

 

Really good post Flugel. Better then the "we are ESPN sheep" weak shit.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see. One thing about the post I disagree with is about the discipline of these players.

 

The Browns have 52 penalties (28th) and 428 yards (24th). Being ranked 32nd in the league in passing with 972 yards we have 1/2 the amount of passing yards FOR THE YEAR in penalties. Not only that it seems all of these penalties are at the worst possible time, drive stoppers.

[steel88]

Really good post Flugel. Better then the "we are ESPN sheep" weak shit.

 

Truth hurts don't it? When your spewing the same crap thats been disproven countless times people will start to hurl insults.

[Kosar_For_President]

Truth hurts don't it? When your spewing the same crap thats been disproven countless times people will start to hurl insults.

 

Ah dude grow the f*ck up. We will have to wait and see how this turns out.

[professor_g]

OK, I looked it up in this week's PFW, and the Browns are ranked 5 in penalty yard edge. That's pretty damn good. The only team stat that's better is punt return differential: they're ranked 1! We're also not doing badly on KO return differential with a rank of 7.

 

None of this is surprising. A bit surprising is the defense's efficiency in the red zone: rank of 10. The sad thing is that our defense has faced the greatest number of red zone situations, 35. (I think I'm reading this right. My flu has me wondering.)

[steel88]

Ah dude grow the f*ck up. We will have to wait and see how this turns out.

 

agreed we will have to wait and see. but dude you started it a while ago with your "what a douche bag. Blow mangini on your own time" comment.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I love the notion that it is Mangini's fault.

 

If he took over a team with real talent and solid impact players people would be singing his prases like they were in New York his first year. Somewhere between his first year and second year he forgot how to coach football. I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he didn't have a healthy QB and had other injuries that severely impacted the team's season. And last season they were headed to the playoffs until Favre blew out his arm, the team didn't quit on him. The QB shit the bed and blew three games down the stretch because he coldn't throw the ball.

 

So, the bottom line is coaches are great when they have talent and seem to suck when they don't. Gruden sucked and was fired but somewhere along the line the was smart enough to take a team to the super bowl. Shanahan was a great coach when he had talent. The best example was everybody wanted to run Belechick out of town when he was here because he was a control freak, fined players and the media hated him (sounds familiar).

 

As much as you may hate to admit it, it isn't as much about the coach or system then it is about the talent on the team. Teams win with impact players who can execute plays. It really doesn't matter if it's a 3-4 or 4-3 defense, running attack or passing attack. You need players who can make plays.

 

Many people here over the last few years have tried to tell all the "knee Jerkers" that we just don't have an abundance of talent and we don't have impact players.

 

This is a QB driven league. We don't have one. Was Mangini very secretive about his QB pick this year? Yes, and for good reason, they both suck. We don't have a QB that can execute and move the offense to score points. We go through a whole preseason and our QB derby comes down to a guy who threw one TD pass all preseason. Can you think of a reason why Mangini couldn't really make a decision until the end of camp. This was a competition of who sucked the less.

 

It starts at QB but then you also have to have talent around him. We don't have that either. You have a line that can't block and receivers that can't catch and RBs that are too slow getting to holes. The players have been coached, they just aren't that good.

 

Bottom line is the coach is as good as the players he's got. Now, if he has been there 3 years and the players still stink, then he has to share the blame.

 

So the bullshit about Mangini being the worst coach, is just that. Put the blame where it belongs. You have an owner that hasn't built a stable organization. He's made bad decisions because he hasn't brought in real football people to help him run the show. As far as Mangini...............................coaches need players.

 

Get a QB...........it starts there, not replacing a coach and bringing in another guy who will suck because he doens't have any talent.

 

One thing to remember.....................................the sports media are paid to be controversial to get people to watch their shows or buy their papers. Most know about as much as you and me.

 

 

[steel88]

I love the notion that it is Mangini's fault.

 

If he took over a team with real talent and solid impact players people would be singing his prases like they were in New York his first year. Somewhere between his first year and second year he forgot how to coach football. I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he didn't have a healthy QB and had other injuries that severely impacted the team's season. And last season they were headed to the playoffs until Favre blew out his arm, the team didn't quit on him. The QB shit the bed and blew three games down the stretch because he coldn't throw the ball.

 

So, the bottom line is coaches are great when they have talent and seem to suck when they don't. Gruden sucked and was fired but somewhere along the line the was smart enough to take a team to the super bowl. Shanahan was a great coach when he had talent. The best example was everybody wanted to run Belechick out of town when he was here because he was a control freak, fined players and the media hated him (sounds familiar).

 

As much as you may hate to admit it, it isn't as much about the coach or system then it is about the talent on the team. Teams win with impact players who can execute plays. It really doesn't matter if it's a 3-4 or 4-3 defense, running attack or passing attack. You need players who can make plays.

 

Many people here over the last few years have tried to tell all the "knee Jerkers" that we just don't have an abundance of talent and we don't have impact players.

 

This is a QB driven league. We don't have one. Was Mangini very secretive about his QB pick this year? Yes, and for good reason, they both suck. We don't have a QB that can execute and move the offense to score points. We go through a whole preseason and our QB derby comes down to a guy who threw one TD pass all preseason. Can you think of a reason why Mangini couldn't really make a decision until the end of camp. This was a competition of who sucked the less.

 

It starts at QB but then you also have to have talent around him. We don't have that either. You have a line that can't block and receivers that can't catch and RBs that are too slow getting to holes. The players have been coached, they just aren't that good.

 

Bottom line is the coach is as good as the players he's got. Now, if he has been there 3 years and the players still stink, then he has to share the blame.

 

So the bullshit about Mangini being the worst coach, is just that. Put the blame where it belongs. You have an owner that hasn't built a stable organization. He's made bad decisions because he hasn't brought in real football people to help him run the show. As far as Mangini...............................coaches need players.

 

Get a QB...........it starts there, not replacing a coach and bringing in another guy who will suck because he doens't have any talent.

 

One thing to remember.....................................the sports media are paid to be controversial to get people to watch their shows or buy their papers. Most know about as much as you and me.

 

Whats your take on the kokinis situation? ernie accorsi recommended him and he is a football guy. Is it a case of you can't be right all the time no matter who you are?