Guest Masters Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm not contradicting myself I'm just trying to be fair about this. He got away a few but each week every QB does. How many times in any game do you hear "almost picked off by __________"? All in all though, he's making better decisions. In some cases, like the pick, he's making better decisions than his recievers. I think with reps and attention from the coaches DA will be a solid starter for a long time in this league. And I am pretty happy we have him. Could you imagine if he was traded like fans wanted in the off-season?! Ho-ly shit. I would think it is a contradiction. All 3 examples were still bad decisions and the typical bad ones we have seen over and over. I could also add him rolling right into a sack (that would be back to back weeks of him basically sacking himself). If those 3 or 4 weren't in the games, then I can see saying improved decisions. But when the same mistakes are there, it's hard for me to note improvement. I hope you a right, but from college to today all the coaching and reps have done very little to improve his completion %, turn overs, and questionable decisions. Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I could also add him rolling right into a sack yeah Anderson got sacked one time in 50 passing plays. what a crapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4. If Anderson was traded they would not only be 0-4 but also #32 in rankings and the laughingstock of the NFL like they were last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 yeah Anderson got sacked one time in 50 passing plays. what a crapper. Except it was twice in 48 (for 20 lost yards). The point was the total anyway, it was how it occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hmm I sure didn't see you in here after the cincy loss? and good old holmes has been a no show for a while. The only steeler troll with any real balls is SChuck. I am an RN and worked 4 days last week. I also don't come over here every day, it's a browns board. I came over here because I heard that Mangini put in DA and wanted to chat about it. I find it hard to believe that anyone is supporting this decision by Mangini since he either should have made it before the preseason or damn near then. What he did was create a QB controversy and that does not help either QB gain confidence nor does it build TEAM chemistry. As for your view of our QB situation. Take a freaking hike. WHile I am one of the BIGGEST DA HATERS on this board, and still don't think he'll ever be a "franchise QB" for this team. Quinn was PAAAATHETIC in his 3 starts. and the offense followed suit. When have you guys ever had a franchise QB? You have to give them room to make mistakes and Quinn has had a couple of games. Had he been given the team and shown the respect that the starting QB should get he may have played with more confidence and done better. You will never know because your coach is taking a backass approach that has been shown through history to be poor judgement. Sure Anderson was Anderson for this game, and IMO cost us a win. BUt the very fact that we were able to see some progress and growth by two of the younger players on this team can be directly attibuted to the change at QB. Now, can some argue that the playcalling changed too and the personell that the coaching staff decided to start this time made a huge difference. and that they did it purposfully to screw quinn. How can you say that other players progressed because of the QB in the game? He had nothing to do with their game. They ran their routs, played their positions like they should with anyone in the game. The only thing DA has is a longer ball. Other than that it's just like you said... DA was DA for this game and cost you a win and gives no experience to the QB that should be your future at this time. Even if Quinn eventually is replaced by a draft pick and becomes your backup, the experience he would gain for the future is worth more than anything DA can do for your team. Me? I think all those things made a difference and I applaud the coaching staff for being willing to make changes. But I'd rather see more than just the QB get a chance to progress in this offense. And I didn't see that when Quinn was QB. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Most of the NFL questions Mangini's decision making so far. You can't get quinn to be a better QB on the bench and DA is not going to go far enough to make it worth your time to keep him in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fooleeze Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I just want to add that I was also at the game, and I certainly didn't get the warm-fuzzy about DA's game as others did. He certainly played 'decent' by DA standards, and 'better' by the standards Quinn set over the past few games, but there was a lot left on the field in this game as well because of DA's inaccuracy. That red-zone interception was not miscommunication, it was simply a BAD throw. He was looking right at Heiden and didn't even see the DB coming at him from the outside. Threw it low and behind Heiden, and we had the result. If Heiden was really supposed to curl that around, then it still would have been picked off, because there was a DB right behind him, on his right hip. The throw where he led MoMass out of bounds and the "TD-ruled down at the 1" throw were both beautiful throws and catches. It became VERY clear to me in this game that one of the biggest issues in the passing attack was that nobody was getting open in the previous games. Cribbs couldn't get open, so they put him back on special teams. Edwards isn't getting open, because he's being double-teamed all the time. By putting MoMass in there, there's finally now a player getting open, demanding more attention, and spreading out the defense. The only players that seemed to be getting open in the past were the 'dump-off' players, the RBs, TEs, and sometimes Furrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Except it was twice in 48 (for 20 lost yards). The point was the total anyway, it was how it occured. that's right the flea flicker play was considered a sack too. FYI 48 passes and 2 sacks makes 50 passing plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 How many games has Quinn started? And you are calling him a bust? No wonder you guys can't get anywhere if your coach thinks like that. You have to develop players and let them work through their mistakes and get better. Quinn is not going to get better in practice or on the sidelines. DA you already know what you have... A one hit wonder who has done nothing but go downhill since the first half of a season two years ago. I don't want to debate QB's ... we have our starter, and the lead topic has plenty of plays listed that I'd like to discuss. If you didn't see the game, find another thread to participate in. Sorry, don't mean to be a dick, but I want to move forward from yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car ramrod Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I would think it is a contradiction. All 3 examples were still bad decisions and the typical bad ones we have seen over and over. I could also add him rolling right into a sack (that would be back to back weeks of him basically sacking himself). If those 3 or 4 weren't in the games, then I can see saying improved decisions. But when the same mistakes are there, it's hard for me to note improvement. I hope you a right, but from college to today all the coaching and reps have done very little to improve his completion %, turn overs, and questionable decisions. Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4. You are expecting him to be perfect. That will not happen. Everyone throws picks and everyone rolls into sacks (EVERYONE). You have a mental clock in your head and also you know the right side of your line is not the best in the world (in our case) and he is looking to his receivers to the left. Nothing there and you move. Very common. 2 other throws should have been picks? First off what two are you talking about and did the defender even touch the balls? If you are talking about the one that missed Furrey then yes it was behind him and a bad throw, no doubt. But wasnt close to being picked. It hit his hand while trying to reach behing him and went straight to the ground. And the robert royal one hit him in the facemask and almost stuck there. That is not DA's fault. You have to expect the ball to come and put your god damn hands up. But I'll listen to what two you say SHOULD HAVE been picks that werent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 It became VERY clear to me in this game that one of the biggest issues in the passing attack was that nobody was getting open in the previous games. Cribbs couldn't get open, so they put him back on special teams. Edwards isn't getting open, because he's being double-teamed all the time. By putting MoMass in there, there's finally now a player getting open, demanding more attention, and spreading out the defense. The only players that seemed to be getting open in the past were the 'dump-off' players, the RBs, TEs, and sometimes Furrey. It's amazing when you have an actual WR playing WR isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Most of the NFL questions Mangini's decision making so far. You can't get quinn to be a better QB on the bench and DA is not going to go far enough to make it worth your time to keep him in there. thanks for your $.02 but most folks here actually watched the game yesterday and it seems as though you didn't. Sounds more like you are regurgitating the CBS NFL pregame show with Boomer Esiason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't want to debate QB's ... we have our starter, and the lead topic has plenty of plays listed that I'd like to discuss. If you didn't see the game, find another thread to participate in. Sorry, don't mean to be a dick, but I want to move forward from yesterday. You mean you have a starting QB until he starts to make mistakes and is replaced by Quinn once again. I know you want to move on. No problem. But you should at least see the writting on the wall that Mangini is making some big mistakes and is not really working on the QB you will have in the future. I did see the game. I was hoping for a browns win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You are expecting him to be perfect. That will not happen. Everyone throws picks and everyone rolls into sacks (EVERYONE). You have a mental clock in your head and also you know the right side of your line is not the best in the world (in our case) and he is looking to his receivers to the left. Nothing there and you move. Very common. 2 other throws should have been picks? First off what two are you talking about and did the defender even touch the balls? If you are talking about the one that missed Furrey then yes it was behind him and a bad throw, no doubt. But wasnt close to being picked. It hit his hand while trying to reach behing him and went straight to the ground. And the robert royal one hit him in the facemask and almost stuck there. That is not DA's fault. You have to expect the ball to come and put your god damn hands up. But I'll listen to what two you say SHOULD HAVE been picks that werent. No I don't expect him to be perfect. But I do expect that he won't make the same mistakes he has made from day 1. That is my point. Yes you have a mental clock in your head. But solid QBs with pocket awareness do not roll into sacks like that. Again, the point isn't the play itself, its the continuation of the same thing we have seen in the past. So forgive me if I didn't see improved decision making. There was a screen pass that a DL almost snagged and another early in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Anyone have the video of the Red Zone pick handy for us to view? ... I only saw it once live, no replays, would like to view it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 thanks for your $.02 but most folks here actually watched the game yesterday and it seems as though you didn't. Sounds more like you are regurgitating the CBS NFL pregame show with Boomer Esiason. Sorry LumDummy, I not only watched the game but I was pulling for a Cleveland win. The browns as a team played pretty good. DA as a QB played marginal at best and could not win the game when needed. Essentially losing the game with the pick in the red zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Sorry LumDummy, I not only watched the game but I was pulling for a Cleveland win. The browns as a team played pretty good. DA as a QB played marginal at best and could not win the game when needed. Essentially losing the game with the pick in the red zone. Or the inability to hit a single receiver in over time. what was that, 5 straight 3 and outs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetdawg Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I just want to add that I was also at the game, and I certainly didn't get the warm-fuzzy about DA's game as others did. He certainly played 'decent' by DA standards, and 'better' by the standards Quinn set over the past few games, but there was a lot left on the field in this game as well because of DA's inaccuracy. That red-zone interception was not miscommunication, it was simply a BAD throw. He was looking right at Heiden and didn't even see the DB coming at him from the outside. Threw it low and behind Heiden, and we had the result. If Heiden was really supposed to curl that around, then it still would have been picked off, because there was a DB right behind him, on his right hip. The throw where he led MoMass out of bounds and the "TD-ruled down at the 1" throw were both beautiful throws and catches. It became VERY clear to me in this game that one of the biggest issues in the passing attack was that nobody was getting open in the previous games. Cribbs couldn't get open, so they put him back on special teams. Edwards isn't getting open, because he's being double-teamed all the time. By putting MoMass in there, there's finally now a player getting open, demanding more attention, and spreading out the defense. The only players that seemed to be getting open in the past were the 'dump-off' players, the RBs, TEs, and sometimes Furrey. You know, I can't imagine any other team's QBs being scrutinized to the extreme level that they are here in Cleveland. And especially Anderson. If you put every single throw under a microscope (like we seem to do here), ANY QB is going to show (what appear to be) some bad tosses and poor decisions. Even guys named Brady and Manning. The difference is, none of us ever WATCH those guys with such extreme scrutiny. And I would guess their fans don't either (probably because their TEAMS are largely winners.) Let's play a new game around here: let's watch some other games the rest of the year and put the "other guys" under the same microscope that we put our guys under. Should be an interesting experiment. You gotta let the guys play, instead of critiquing every single snap. Personally, I think THIS is why Quinn played so tight... Rant over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You mean you have a starting QB until he starts to make mistakes and is replaced by Quinn once again. I know you want to move on. No problem. But you should at least see the writting on the wall that Mangini is making some big mistakes and is not really working on the QB you will have in the future. I did see the game. I was hoping for a browns win. Actually you are a week late ... we've wasted three starts already toward our future. I do not believe either of these young kids may be here after next year anthow, but I strongly feel that Anderson has much more to work with and that as of right now the kid also can get us a better read on youngsters at our other skill positions. We need the defense backed-off and allow some daylight-in to get others some decent touches and see them run in open pastures. With the other guy, it was a clusterfuck of an evaluation period, let someone else take the baby steps with him in year #4, if he lights it up in three years for another sub-par team, come back and laugh at me. I'll take the gamble. Again though, this thread ain't about comparing QB's it is about yesterdays QB play, the play calling and how the QB made or didn't make those around him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Or the inability to hit a single receiver in over time. what was that, 5 straight 3 and outs? Browns had Three 3 and outs the whole game so I'd say no there weren't 5 straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBestPlayersPlay Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Actually you are a week late ... we've wasted three starts already toward our future. I do not believe either of these young kids may be here after next year anthow, but I strongly feel that Anderson has much more to work with and that as of right now the kid also can get us a better read on youngsters at our other skill positions. We need the defense backed-off and allow some daylight-in to get others some decent touches and see them run in open pastures. With the other guy, it was a clusterxxxx of an evaluation period, let someone else take the baby steps with him in year #4, if he lights it up in three years for another sub-par team, come back and laugh at me. I'll take the gamble. Again though, this thread ain't about comparing QB's it is about yesterdays QB play, the play calling and how the QB made or didn't make those around him better. Plenty of threads I have seen about BQ's play where I had to endure you chiming in about DA, and "Queen Fags" and derail threads. Now you sit on your high horse and pretend that shit didn't happen for the past 6 months. What a joke. We won't be laughing at you, we'll be cursing because our team will still suck and we'll have to watch yet another player leave cleveland and blossom into something worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You mean you have a starting QB until he starts to make mistakes and is replaced by Quinn once again. FYI Anderson is the QB and Quinn is toast. If you're still grappling with that fact then your takes are old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Or the inability to hit a single receiver in over time. what was that, 5 straight 3 and outs? Thanks for caring, here's the (3) OT possesions First Series 1st down - Run (1 yrd) 2nd down - Run (3 yrds) 3rd down - Incomplete 4th down - Punt Second Series 1st down - Incomplete 2nd down - Incomplete 3rd down - 3rd-n-10: 11yrd completition to Furrey 1st down - Run (no gain) 2nd down - Incomplete (deep) 3rd down - Incomplete (Braylon) 4th down - Punt Third Series 1st Down - run (4 yrds) 2nd Down - 2nd-n-6 - 14 yrd completition to Heiden 1st Down - Run (4 yrds) 2nd Down - negative yardage on pass to Harrison (-4) 3rd-n-10 - Incomplete 4th - Punt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 FYI Anderson is the QB and Quinn is toast. If you're still grappling with that fact then your takes are old news. I heard this before from you and who ended up in as QB? Quinn. Mangini made his choice... for now. But it's obvious the guy is waffling and as soon as DA has a couple more games like that, he will be replaced again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks for caring, here's the (3) OT possesions First Series 1st down - Run (1 yrd) 2nd down - Run (3 yrds) 3rd down - Incomplete 4th down - Punt Second Series 1st down - Incomplete 2nd down - Incomplete 3rd down - 3rd-n-10: 11yrd completition to Furrey 1st down - Run (no gain) 2nd down - Incomplete (deep) 3rd down - Incomplete (Braylon) 4th down - Punt Third Series 1st Down - run (4 yrds) 2nd Down - 2nd-n-6 - 14 yrd completition to Heiden 1st Down - Run (4 yrds) 2nd Down - negative yardage on pass to Harrison (-4) 3rd-n-10 - Incomplete 4th - Punt No three and out but the passing was horrible and netted what? I'm out of here for now. I've said my piece on this. I'll be back after the next game and we will see what DA has done after that. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Browns had Three 3 and outs the whole game so I'd say no there weren't 5 straight I was exaggerating lums. There was 1 3-and-out to start overtime and on the 2nd posession they got 1 first down immediately followed by 3-and-out after that. I just wish DA would step up and actually make a play when he needs to. Instead we get yet another red-zone pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 This set of players have showed more promise than the previous set. So keep rolling with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 There were two instances where Mangini made very RAC-like conservative calls that may have burned the team. 1) kicking the FG with 4th and inches on the 10 and an opportunity to seal the deal. Go for it. Who gives a shit if you're up by 3 or by 6? Go for the TD. Play to win. 2) punting with 19 seconds left in regulation on the Bengals 40 yd line. Go for it or try the 57 yarder. Again, play to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 There were two instances where Mangini made very RAC-like conservative calls that may have burned the team. 1) kicking the FG with 4th and inches on the 10 and an opportunity to seal the deal. Go for it. Who gives a shit if you're up by 3 or by 6? Go for the TD. Play to win. That was right at the 4th qtr mark ... might be to early to gamble there and the FG was putting the go-ahead points on the board. Besides, our play calling was horrible already in that series. 2) punting with 19 seconds left in regulation on the Bengals 40 yd line. Go for it or try the 57 yarder. Again, play to win. The used up Time-outs killed us here. Anderson used one after the first play after the half, didn't he have that problem in that department in years past too? The Defense used one, then gave up the tying TD on the play following the T.O. We had one taken when we challenged the red zone INT. If we had a Time-out or two left, we win that game, with the threat of being able to run the ball, screen, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 We were 9 of 38 on third downs with Quinn. Gosh darnit I keep forgetting - what are the excuses again? For all the three and outs that amounts to, and the fact we were in a game against a good team, WTF is all this about DA losing the game with the pick? Cincy punted after that int and we marched right down and scored. Where was all this bitchng when Quinn played like SHIT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Where was all this bitchng when Quinn played like SHIT? Last I checked, it was right here on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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