Brady Quinn sucks and always has! Can we please put Derek Anderson back in.

[cmac12]

You weren't comparing anything, just doing your typical Andersonite drivel. It is amazing people want to whine about Quinn, when his impact on the game, in the end was quite overrated.

 

The Browns were uncohesive pile of sheet, the coaching staff Tresselesque playcalling and players trying to figure out where to get in position at.

 

Yet, we whine about Quinn. Mercy.

Hey I have been told by many people on this board that the QB over comes lack of talent and coaching. A great QB rises above it and takes his team with him. That is the standard that the fans have demanded. And as far as I did not compare anything how is looking at a players stat line in his fourth start (at the same age mind you) versus another players stat line in his fourth start not a comparision?

 

Yea the Browns had other problems in this game, like they played a better team. The defense did not play that bad overall and besides if you want to look at defense in Anderson's fourth start the opponent scored 45 points.

 

I totally think it is fair to look at game by game comparisions. It will work out at the end of the season and you will get to compare BQ's progression VS DA's regression.

 

I am not saying start DA. I wouldn't, I would stay with BQ at the minimum of 10 weeks. If it is a lost season AND BQ is not showing progression then I would probably bench him just so he didn't get his bonus.

 

This is about comparing the two QBs we have at similar stages in their careers. And remember BQ does have the advantage of a better coaching staff (that is what I have been told at least). Too me the play calling looked far to similar to last year and I DON"T think that is BQ's fault.

 

But yea, there is allot of blame to throw around but in this game the QB did nothing to help the team and did help them lose. But, it is one game. Time to move on against a weaker opponent and even up the record. Which just so you know I do think the Browns will win this game and BQ will have a much improved game.

[Guest ATENEARS]

I am not saying start DA. I wouldn't, I would stay with BQ at the minimum of 10 weeks. If it is a lost season AND BQ is not showing progression then I would probably bench him just so he didn't get his bonus.

 

I don't think as fans, we really should give two shits about Quinns bonus kicking in. Have we become that big of losers? Seriously, what we are looking for is so far beyond worrying about paying the guy a bonus it ain't even funny.

 

I liked your first part of the post; Quinn, Anderson or whoever the hell else makes it here as the starting QB, needs to make those around him better. He needs to carry the SOB's. Plug and Play just about anyone on the depth chart and they need to find a way to make it happen.

[Flugel]

I don't think as fans, we really should give two shits about Quinns bonus kicking in.

 

All I care about seeing is a QB putting some freakin jumper cables on this offense and providing enough juice so I never have to revisit any of the following:

1) Fire the OC

2) Cut the WRs

3) The oline sucks

4) Bring in a new a RB! Remember the guy we dragged out of his marijuana sebatical (Rashaan Salaam)? If that wasn't OUR team that woulda been pretty freakin funny.

5) Fire the Head Coach

6) Fire the GM

7) Fire the popcorn vendors

8) Quit selling bottled beer at the stadium

9) Blame the refs

10) we shouldn't expect too much because this is only our umpteenth year of rebuilding

 

When the RIGHT QB comes of age - all that stuff disappears faster than Madonna's underwear on a date.

 

The restrictions on DBs and various rule changes continuing to unfold have really made this a league about the QB. Well balanced attacks are usually the best way to play chess. As we've seen in the last 2 SBs. The last 4 minutes were ALL about the QBs leadign their teams to go ahead points on BOTH sides of the matchup. End result? The league was happy countless fans were telling them "Great Superbowl."

 

Look, I've never REALLY hated DA. He had MORE chances to become Brian Sipe than Brian Sipe got back in the day. If mission was accomplished - Brady Quinn would have been about as popular around here as Mike Phipps became once everyone saw Sipe's act. The difference? Phipps got countless starts while nobody wanted to step up and say - "ummm, there's still there's no progress." Then Sipe enters a game or two and people start to ask - "should it have looked that easy?" "I didn't know we had receivers that could play." "For that matter, I didn't know Sipe could play." It's amazing what giving a guy that chance to play can actually allow a guy to accomplish. NOBODY on this planet can play from the sidelines.

 

Like I've said, since our organization drafted Quinn in the first round - I'd like to see the kid succeed. We can pretend first round commitments at the QB position for a franchise in transition aren't any more significant than any other commitments. But we know deep down - if you're wrong about that QB - you're the Cincy Bengals. If you're right? You're the Atlanta Falcons, Philly Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, Baltimore Ravens. We've been right before and I think we found the 80s to be a fun era.

- Tom F.

[Tobalaz]

We may as well stick with Quinn for a season.

We already know DA is garbage and if Quinn can't show any progress then we better draft a qb next.

[Guest mz.]

I am totally willing to say Quinn sucks and isn't going to work out if and when that time comes. It's at least 7 or 8 starts away.

 

Me? I'm willing to give it this entire season, for starters. We're not winning the Super Bowl anyway. Might as well see what we have.

 

[Guest Masters]

You make some very good points. And you're right about the right side of the line, that needs upgraded this offseason. I feel like you need to put a TE over there almost always but it's not as bad as the 5 sacks imply. And you're right about playing the Vikings, it's not easy for anybody. I'm not calling for BQs head and I think he needs a few weeks if not, a whole year to improve. I just fear that he isn't going to be a good QB (I hope he is) and I really can't stand another year worrying about the QBs. We have an entire team to worry about here. And DA does make some bad decisions but he too is a young QB and I was excited to see what he would do this year. It should be his make-or-break season. I hoped he would get the job and sink or swim this year and if he sank, hand it over to Brady. I just think DA can read a defense really well, and yes I really do believe that, it's just that he throws some bad balls and the worst possible thing usually happens when he does.

 

I view Quinn very much the same way you do really. I wasn't high on him coming out and I sure as heck didn't want CLE to ever consider him with the 3rd over all pick in the 2007 draft. I was quite happy to see CLE initially pass him over. But like you I do have hopes that he succeeds. He has a lot of tools working in his favor, but some working againts. To me, he was similar to the Drew Brees mold coming in. Whether he can put it together is what is in question. But he has to play to see what he is.

 

DA is a young QB as well. But he is a young QB with a very good number of starts to look at and make a judgement on. Quinn doesn't and any NFL team can't leave a 1st RD QB on the bench in favor of a 6th round pick from another team (claimed from PS waivers) who has had 25+ starts and show little to know development. I would never say seriously that DA can't ever get better. Every person can improve at anything. But so far there had been no signs that the improvement will be in the near future. I certainly wish I could share your beliefe that DA can read a defense, but what I have seen from his first start in 2006 to his last start in 2008 doesn't jive with the idea. The same read mistake (against in division opponents) occur. As I said though, it could all one day click for DA.

 

If CLE was a team where QB was the only weak area and they had long current winning history, I'd be more than willing to give DA even more of a leash, but it's not where the team is.

[hoorta]

This arm strength issue I think is misunderstood. It's not how far you can throw (most of us can throw it 40 yards NFLers can do 60 or so) it's how fast the ball gets to the spot. Recievers in the NFL are almost never wide-open. A QB has got to be able to get it there quickly and accurately. Brady doesn't bother throwing a lot of passes because his arm cannot get it there fast enough. That's the issue with his arm strength. There are a lot of plays left on the field when your QB can't make throws.

 

And I'm not saying DA is great either, I'm mostly saying Quinn is bad and he may always be. If I am wrong about this I'll be very, very happy and will go out and get a Quinn jersey.But I just feel like I'm watching Charlie Frye all over again. It's his third year in the league, he should be a lot more comfortable and effective at this point.

 

Anderson can get it there quickly allright. Sorry about the accuracy thing- he totally sucks in that regard. Interesting article in the Sporting News about a trait Peyton Manning has that Anderson seriously lacks- PM almost never tosses a ball that gets his wr hung out to dry for a kill shot- something that Anderson does on a regular basis.

 

[hoorta]

1. Second half of the season in 07 Chud decided throwing the ball would be a great idea in the cold, windy months with a young QB. Your QB will fail. Against Cinci, he, I believe, threw the ball over 30 times starting early in the game and the wind was over 40mph. No QB can succeed in those conditions.

 

Look at it like this, if both QBs are mediocre. as they are. then who do you want in there when at their best? Brady at his best (see denver 08) or DA at his best (half of 07 and against NY last year)?

 

Regarding assertion #1 WRONG. Ben Rothlisberger completed completed an insanely high percentage of passes in a game (something like 65%) when he was playing for Miami of Ohio in a freaking hurricane- gusts over 50mph- the reason I wanted to draft the kid when we had a chance to. For those with a short attention span, Benny Boy repeated that feat against the Browns- 65% completion percentage- when Hurricane Ike blew through Cleveland last September. DA? 56%, 2 picks, rating 44. Apples to apples.

 

It's yet to be seen what Quinn's "best" is. He gets all year to show what he has. What I've seen is Anderson has seriously regressed from his "best". It ain't exactly Rocket Science- defenses figured out take away DA's deep stuff- and make him beat you short. Sorry, FAIL.

[Lumbergh]

Seriously, if anybody really thinks 21 for 35 for 205 and a pick (with a TD canceled by penalty) is a horrific first game in your first season as a starter? Against one of the league's best defenses?

 

Boy, are you nutso.

 

His 4th qtr was great. yay.

 

But thru 3 qtrs he had only 72 yds passing and a passer rating in the 30's. And the O had produced 2 FGs, one by way of a botched onside kick.

 

By the way, let me take a wild guess shep, Lane Adkins is no longer your favorite insider over on OBR?

 

[damajuki]

If CLE was a team where QB was the only weak area and they had long current winning history, I'd be more than willing to give DA even more of a leash, but it's not where the team is.

GREAT GREAT GREAT post, Mik.

 

And great summation of the last two years of this discussion, for all those who actually believe wanting Quinn to succeed means wanting DA to fail.

 

Quite the opposite is true. Having DA mature into a legit starting QB would have been a HUGE win for the organization, like winning the lottery. Didn't happen.

 

And had the organization not invested a first-round pick (forget money, that's replaceable; top picks are the true currency in the NFL) in Quinn, we'd all be talking about DA's development (or lack thereof) and cheering for him to suddenly "get it" and become a top QB.

 

But that's not the case. The organization can't afford another busted first-rounder, especially without him being given a chance to succeed, so Quinn HAS to get a chance to develop before that pick is conisdered (another) bust.

 

It's just that simple, though some don't understand or care about how much Quinn busting hurts our team in the long-run.

[MoonlitKnight]

GREAT GREAT GREAT post, Mik.

 

And great summation of the last two years of this discussion, for all those who actually believe wanting Quinn to succeed means wanting DA to fail.

 

Quite the opposite is true. Having DA mature into a legit starting QB would have been a HUGE win for the organization, like winning the lottery. Didn't happen.

 

And had the organization not invested a first-round pick (forget money, that's replaceable; top picks are the true currency in the NFL) in Quinn, we'd all be talking about DA's development (or lack thereof) and cheering for him to suddenly "get it" and become a top QB.

 

But that's not the case. The organization can't afford another busted first-rounder, especially without him being given a chance to succeed, so Quinn HAS to get a chance to develop before that pick is conisdered (another) bust.

It's just that simple, though some don't understand or care about how much Quinn busting hurts our team in the long-run. Quinn busting hurts the team?How so? You think the team will fall apart because some fans don't like/trust/want quinn as the Browns QB?Give me a break...I doubt that they care..what about DA busting? Lets say your boy goes down and(gasp) DA has to step in,according to your theory he will be traumatized,as well as the team as a whole by all the DA bashing that has went on. Talk about spinning a tale to suit your agenda!

[RestinPeace]

It's just that simple, though some don't understand or care about how much Quinn busting hurts our team in the long-run. Quinn busting hurts the team?How so? You think the team will fall apart because some fans don't like/trust/want quinn as the Browns QB?Give me a break...I doubt that they care..what about DA busting? Lets say your boy goes down and(gasp) DA has to step in,according to your theory he will be traumatized,as well as the team as a whole by all the DA bashing that has went on. Talk about spinning a tale to suit your agenda!

 

Who cares what DA does. The guy is useless here, heck, even he knows it. Quinn not panning out means another big resource having to be found.

 

Yet, the mindnumbing idiots can't figure that out. Amazing.

[ballpeen]

Absolutely naive.

 

..how much time do you give them before you pull the plug???

 

That is the good question.

 

My feeling is this...either when the guy totally blows up which I hope doesn't and don't think it will.....or when he has played to a generally low level and we are nearing that 70% of snaps mark.

 

I don't want his salary to escalate to the next level if the guy isn't looking like he is worth the money.

 

I guess that would be about game 7(after)....I say 7 because we need to give ourself a little cushion.

 

Brady isn't a raw rookie just as Aaron Rogers wasn't a raw rookie when he took over. While Quinn is going to have some bugs to work out, 7 games should be enough of a test to give us a pretty good indication as to what sort of QB he is going to be....one who's salary needs to remain at it's present level or one who deserves to be elevated towards elite qb salary level.

 

JMO

 

 

 

[lodilobo]

excuses,excuses,excuses....you are talking in paradoxes,"quinn ran the offense well" followed by "our defense wore down due to the offense going 3 and out too much"...you can't have it both ways.Quinn, a 3 year player,has no accuracy,I have also seen the excuse"well he was nervous" this guy was suppossed to be NFL ready coming outta college..I gotta hand it to you quinn fans,you're loyal,deluded,and refuse to face facts,but loyal.If this turd hasn't got it figured out by game6 then his place is the bench.

So, then...in your world, Quinn is entirely resposible for the offense not producing in every situation. That's total crap! I made every excuse I could for Anderson, and still would, if he were in there. I'm not really a "Quinn fan"...I'm a Browns' fan. Quinn may be a "3 year player"...but you have to take into consideration his limited playing time. I have no loyalty to any player....just the team. If you have some reason to think that DA should be the qb, explain.....but don't give me that crap about him being a pro bowler......that's ancient history.

[mopaji]

I view Quinn very much the same way you do really. I wasn't high on him coming out and I sure as heck didn't want CLE to ever consider him with the 3rd over all pick in the 2007 draft. I was quite happy to see CLE initially pass him over. But like you I do have hopes that he succeeds. He has a lot of tools working in his favor, but some working againts. To me, he was similar to the Drew Brees mold coming in. Whether he can put it together is what is in question. But he has to play to see what he is.

 

DA is a young QB as well. But he is a young QB with a very good number of starts to look at and make a judgement on. Quinn doesn't and any NFL team can't leave a 1st RD QB on the bench in favor of a 6th round pick from another team (claimed from PS waivers) who has had 25+ starts and show little to know development. I would never say seriously that DA can't ever get better. Every person can improve at anything. But so far there had been no signs that the improvement will be in the near future. I certainly wish I could share your beliefe that DA can read a defense, but what I have seen from his first start in 2006 to his last start in 2008 doesn't jive with the idea. The same read mistake (against in division opponents) occur. As I said though, it could all one day click for DA.

 

If CLE was a team where QB was the only weak area and they had long current winning history, I'd be more than willing to give DA even more of a leash, but it's not where the team is.

 

 

It sounds like we are almost in total agreement. It is do-or-die for whichever one of them started this year. It's Brady's turn to make something out of this. I don't see anything wrong with letting him play the entire year good-or-bad.

 

And about DA reading a defense, He's no Peyton Manning but he is, at this point, much better than Quinn. A lot of his deep throws are a result of him spotting something pre-snap. This is what some people misinterperate as "staring down a reciever" The result of which is usually positive unless BE drops it. Most of his big plays have come from a pre-snap read that he and Braylon both recognize and agree on. I have yet to see Quinn do this with any reciever in any game yet. DA's biggest problems are forcing short routes and getting picked and sailing shorter out routes and getting picked. I feel like if he can fix these two things, which can be easily fixed, he has more of an upside than Quinn. With that said however, at this point Quinn should get the whole year to show what he's got unless he is the only reason we're losing.

[MoonlitKnight]

So, then...in your world, Quinn is entirely resposible for the offense not producing in every situation. That's total crap! I made every excuse I could for Anderson, and still would, if he were in there. I'm not really a "Quinn fan"...I'm a Browns' fan. Quinn may be a "3 year player"...but you have to take into consideration his limited playing time. I have no loyalty to any player....just the team. If you have some reason to think that DA should be the qb, explain.....but don't give me that crap about him being a pro bowler......that's ancient history.

hey dude...you obviously have me confused with a DA pimp...I am a Browns pimp..I am not crazy about either one...but forced to choose I'd take DA...at least he can throw the long ball

[MoonlitKnight]

Who cares what DA does. The guy is useless here, heck, even he knows it. Quinn not panning out means another big resource having to be found.

 

Yet, the mindnumbing idiots can't figure that out. Amazing.

:laughs: he knows it does he?What do you base that remark on?Did you have a personal conversation with the man? The post was in reply to someone saying that quinn bashing somehow "hurts"the Browns...I think that conclusion is a crock..

[ballpeen]

Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him.

 

Aaron Rodgers is playing in exactly the same offense he watched and practiced in for three years behind Favre. His first two camps and preseasons were a little rugged, by the way. Only last year did he start to seriously look like The Man.

 

What about you talking about this being close to Quinn O at ND??

 

The O isn't a issue.

 

[cmac12]

Seriously, if anybody really thinks 21 for 35 for 205 and a pick (with a TD canceled by penalty) is a horrific first game in your first season as a starter? Against one of the league's best defenses?

 

Boy, are you nutso.

 

I am totally willing to say Quinn sucks and isn't going to work out if and when that time comes. It's at least 7 or 8 starts away.

1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.

 

But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.

 

And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.

[Guest AdaM]

1 meaningless TD against a prevent defense. Before the Vikings went into prevent mode what was BQ's stat line? Probably a rating of around 20. BQ looked very bad in this game, that does not mean bench him after one game. You can not judge a QB by one game, weather it is good (the Broncos) or bad (the Vikings). It is one game, that is it.

 

But to paint it like his final stat line is a representation of how he performed then you are nutso. The TD he threw to BE was what do you call it...a "Circus Catch"(that is the one called back). The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it. Don't try and spin that game like anything other than BQ played poorly. Not his fault the Browns lost but he certainly didn't help. But again it is one game. Everybody has a bad game. Move on and see how he performs over a period of time.

 

And shep, it was a horrific game UNTIL the vikings went into prevent defense and even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.

 

 

"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?

 

 

And it was not a "horrible" game. It was not good, but he definitely did not cause the browns to lose.

 

 

It is what it is, a sub-par outing. They will get better.

[Lumbergh]

Quinn's pretty raw. He just hasn't played much, hasn't received many first team reps, hasn't had a chance to get familiarity with his teammates, and is now playing in a new offense with new coaches and a new cast around him.

 

"HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"

 

-shepwrite circa 2007

 

 

 

.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"

[Guest Masters]

even then the only pass he threw that carried more than 10 yards in the air was the throw to Royal.

 

HUH? Pass interference play to BE well over 10 yards. So was the ball BE dropped.

 

Quinn didn't play a good game. But the exaggeration that it was horrific and that only one pass was 10 yards in the air are just silly to me.

[Guest Masters]

"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?

 

That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.

[Riffer X]

"HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"

 

-shepwrite circa 2007

 

 

 

.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"

 

I start getting a little worried every time Lumspackle starts "remembering" quotes by guys from 2 years ago.

 

Just a little unnerving........

[Guest AdaM]

I start getting a little worried every time Lumspackle starts "remembering" quotes by guys from 2 years ago.

 

Just a little unnerving........

 

 

 

Maybe every time he see's something he deems ridiculous, he screen shots it and puts it in the archives. For the purpose of saying "told-ya-so" 2 years later.

[MoonlitKnight]

OK can you stop with the gay :laughs:? We get it, you think it's funny when people disagree with you because you think it makes them stupid.

JADBF....I don't know you from shit...but I do know your constant use of the word"reference" as in..."obviously didn't get the reference" shows how you dismiss the ones you feel are stupid....so you do your thing and I'll do mine

[hoorta]

 

QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)

"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?

 

 

That series from 1st and goal at the 6 was a Lewis run for 3 yards on 1st, Cribbs for 2 yards on 2nd, and Cribbs for -1 yards on 3rd down.

 

Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?

 

[Vegasdogg]

"HE'S THE MOST NFL-READY QUARTERBACK TO COME INTO THE LEAGUE IN THE LAST DECADE"

 

-shepwrite circa 2007

 

 

 

.........2 and a half years later he's just "pretty raw" and "it's all new to him"

And he beat out DA. That tells ya something right there.

[Guest Masters]

QUOTE (AdaM @ Sep 16 2009, 07:31 AM)

"The Browns had first and goal at the 6 and got only a FG out of it." didn't cribbs run the ball twice on that series?

 

 

 

 

Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?

 

I think we can. Mangini took the blame for that play calling in his presser.

[Vegasdogg]

Can we say the playcalling there was a little suspect?

Only if it doesn't work.

I like Cribbs down there, but I also would have liked him in a big set as the only WR, coming in motion and catching the ball in the flat on play action. Not two of the same plays in a row.