Kevin Stefanski

[lodilobo]

After watching the exact same scenario play out numerous times this season, it's time to rethink the Browns situation. We've watched the same crap over and over this season. We get a substantial lead, with the offense working well, then in the 2nd half, the game plan changes to ultra conservative. This is not good coaching. I really like Stefanski, but he is an exact copy of Zimmer...the HC in Minnesota, who he worked under for years. I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy. I'm done blaming Mayfield, the defense, injuries, etc. This is a poorly designed offense and that needs to change.  The conservative play calling results in quick 3 and outs, which then forces the defense to get back on the field too soon. Then the opponent has the opportunity to come back. No...I'm not saying we should look for a new HC...I'm saying Stefanski needs to change his methods, or we will continue with the same results.

[nickers]

7 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

After watching the exact same scenario play out numerous times this season, it's time to rethink the Browns situation. We've watched the same crap over and over this season. We get a substantial lead, with the offense working well, then in the 2nd half, the game plan changes to ultra conservative. This is not good coaching. I really like Stefanski, but he is an exact copy of Zimmer...the HC in Minnesota, who he worked under for years. I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy. I'm done blaming Mayfield, the defense, injuries, etc. This is a poorly designed offense and that needs to change.  The conservative play calling results in quick 3 and outs, which then forces the defense to get back on the field too soon. Then the opponent has the opportunity to come back. No...I'm not saying we should look for a new HC...I'm saying Stefanski needs to change his methods, or we will continue with the same results.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner! Winner!... Chicken Dinner!

[Orion]

18 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy.

Nah, we don't want the reigning coach of the year.  Let's get Hue Jackson back.  Or one of the other idiots we've had this century.  Jeezuz, Joseph and Mary!!

[Zombo]

10 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

After watching the exact same scenario play out numerous times this season, it's time to rethink the Browns situation. We've watched the same crap over and over this season. We get a substantial lead, with the offense working well, then in the 2nd half, the game plan changes to ultra conservative. This is not good coaching. I really like Stefanski, but he is an exact copy of Zimmer...the HC in Minnesota, who he worked under for years. I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy. I'm done blaming Mayfield, the defense, injuries, etc. This is a poorly designed offense and that needs to change.  The conservative play calling results in quick 3 and outs, which then forces the defense to get back on the field too soon. Then the opponent has the opportunity to come back. No...I'm not saying we should look for a new HC...I'm saying Stefanski needs to change his methods, or we will continue with the same results.

They are too protective of Mayfield once we get a lead. Gotta keep that foot on the gas.

But there are other factors as well that they take into consideration. Depends on the personnel.  With Nojoku out, Hooper and Landry were the only veteran receivers out there, and then with Hunt out, we don't have our closer. He puts teams away.

We were a chipshot FG missed from going up 27-9.

But, I largely agree that need to stop taking our foot off the gas when we get a lead.

Side note: I kept seeing Hance out there. Were we playing six linemen with Hance lined up as an eligible receiver?

Z

[nickers]

18 minutes ago, Zombo said:

They are too protective of Mayfield once we get a lead. Gotta keep that foot on the gas.

But there are other factors as well that they take into consideration. Depends on the personnel.  With Nojoku out, Hooper and Landry were the only veteran receivers out there, and then with Hunt out, we don't have our closer. He puts teams away.

We were a chipshot FG missed from going up 27-9.

But, I largely agree that need to stop taking our foot off the gas when we get a lead.

Side note: I kept seeing Hance out there. Were we playing six linemen with Hance lined up as an eligible receiver?

Z

I think Hance was filling a hole at blocking tight end.. at least thats what I took away from the telecast broadcasting announcers.

 

[Zombo]

Another reason we got conservative,  Is I think we felt Baltimore couldn't come back on our Defense with a backup QB. But they certainly made it scary.

I think we should go back and look at the Cincy game ... we put them away. Of course, we were running the ball much better then. Baltimore takes away your run and dares you to pass. We didn't take that dare in the 2nd half.

Z

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I think Hance was filling a hole at blocking tight end.. at least thats what I took away from the telecast broadcasting announcers.

Happy victory Monday! Fella's 

Hance played 18 snaps as a blocking TE/6th lineman.. The starting OL all played 65 snaps including Hudson & Hooper.. Mostly we were in a single RB set to make room..

Large Kudos to Callahan.. Saw a good improvement in Hudson's play Sunday.. He's worked his butt off getting his footing right to play RT in pass pro.. the Ravens end rushers were not part of their walking wounded..Hudson/Wills took on their best..  Raiders coming in? Hudson will get a good re-test.. far from perfect.  but better ! 

2nd kudos goes to Stef... a good nfl average of 4 penalty flags on us all-day .. No bonehead'd shots fired to our own cleats..    

[SdBacker80]

I think it is more of a QB issue, but Kevin has had some head scratching calls and decisions this year too.  

We don’t push the ball downfield enough and I don’t totally believe that is on the play caller.

2nd half play calls were 50/50 run/pass.

But When you throw 13 times and get 43 yards out of it…well…I think the QB has something to do with that. 

[hx214]

I don't understand the 5 wide calls when we totally vacate the middle of the field and have one legit read that gets shut down all the time.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

After watching the exact same scenario play out numerous times this season, it's time to rethink the Browns situation. We've watched the same crap over and over this season. We get a substantial lead, with the offense working well, then in the 2nd half, the game plan changes to ultra conservative. This is not good coaching. I really like Stefanski, but he is an exact copy of Zimmer...the HC in Minnesota, who he worked under for years. I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy. I'm done blaming Mayfield, the defense, injuries, etc. This is a poorly designed offense and that needs to change.  The conservative play calling results in quick 3 and outs, which then forces the defense to get back on the field too soon. Then the opponent has the opportunity to come back. No...I'm not saying we should look for a new HC...I'm saying Stefanski needs to change his methods, or we will continue with the same results.

Up 17-0 nothing Stef went to the air on 1st and 2nd down.  Interception on the 2nd throw which gave Baltimore good field position and a cheap 3 points after the defense did a fine job holding firm.

Up 24-6 Baker had the fumble-which-wasnt scare.  

At that point you've had a turnover and a near miss, both on your side of the field.   Then the missed FG which would have made it 27-9. 

Your offense has shown some shakey behavior with handling the ball,  your opponents QB is out of the game and your defense has generated turnovers throughout the day.  At that point the only thing which hurts you is yourself with turnovers or a backup QB slinging the rock into contested spaces routinely.  Those 2 big throws against Greedy were outstanding plays I wouldn't count on any backup QB and average receiver making routinely.  This is why the defense stayed aggressive throughout. 

Sometimes Tressel ball is a winning formula.   We just had fans last week asking why we didnt run more and why our hurt QB was throwing so much.  Now some of those same fans are asking why we weren't letting same hurt QB be more aggressive downfield. 

God damn, a lot of you are just Retarded.

[lodilobo]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Nah, we don't want the reigning coach of the year.  Let's get Hue Jackson back.  Or one of the other idiots we've had this century.  Jeezuz, Joseph and Mary!!

Don't put words in my mouth. I said I like Stefanski, and he's a good coach, and I'm not ready to run him out of town...BUT...I've seen the exact same scenario play out in too many games to think that Mayfield just starts playing like crap after halftime, and the opponent makes adjustments. The bottom line is, you can't get a comfortable lead, and then go into a shell. We have to continue to be aggressive on offense.

[SdBacker80]

29 minutes ago, hx214 said:

I don't understand the 5 wide calls when we totally vacate the middle of the field and have one legit read that gets shut down all the time.

I do the first read gets taken away Baker sits in a clean pocket puts his head down and tries to scramble out of it. 
 

I like me some tressel ball but you Can’t do it with a gunslinger, a shaky kicker and a punter you just pulled off the street.  

[Bob806]

45 minutes ago, hx214 said:

I don't understand the 5 wide calls when we totally vacate the middle of the field and have one legit read that gets shut down all the time.

The no-back offense has scared the crap out of me since the Siper Bowl era.

A Kosar to Slaughter or Langhorne slant pattern usually worked. For some reason, perhaps today's defensive schemes, the Browns don't run that play hardly at all.

Hey, they won. Right back in the thick of it. 

The Browns aren't going to change what they do, or who they are the last 4 games (& hopefully a playoff run). They'll evaluate & tweak stuff in the off season. 

Go Browns

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Sometimes Tressel ball is a winning formula.   We just had fans last week asking why we didnt run more and why our hurt QB was throwing so much.  Now some of those same fans are asking why we weren't letting same hurt QB be more aggressive downfield. 

riddle me this..

I get 1 RB sets/ meets OL, needs timing to hopefully seal open a hole... but, Do we just avoid trying to run power blocking sets with Hunt/Chubb?

I swear in some cases we don't need to see 5-6 yard backs setting up so far in backfield? Allowing outside edges angles (a Tressel adjustment)

I can watch Joe Mixon/ect.ect, run power 1 cut bang sets, from 4 yard set ups deep backfield weekly..(3rd down shorts mainly)

Why not us?

[tiamat63]

30 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

riddle me this..

I get 1 RB sets/ meets OL, needs timing to hopefully seal open a hole... but, Do we just avoid trying to run power blocking sets with Hunt/Chubb?

I swear in some cases we don't need to see 5-6 yard backs setting up so far in backfield? Allowing outside edges angles (a Tressel adjustment)

I can watch Joe Mixon/ect.ect, run power 1 cut bang sets, from 4 yard set ups deep backfield weekly..(3rd down shorts mainly)

Why not us?

Power has less to do with backfield depth and personnel than it does up front.    The entire concept is to pull lineman and gain a numbers advantage to one side of the formation. Either with your "classic" interior pulls, center pulls, tackle pulls etc etc.  The pin and pull scheme is an offshoot of that offensive evolution. 

Having your RB at a shorter depth usually invites interior runs which allows IDL and linebackers to not have to be overly concerned about lateral pursuit. Which is the bread and butter of this offense -  Outside zone then boot off if it. 

Credit to stef and the offensive coaches. A couple of the suggestions I made - involve Kareem earlier and more often, then scrapping the outside zone and bootlegs, really helped make the offense work at times. 

They also did a pretty good job, at least by my initial watching yesterday,  of setting up Baker for success. I saw a few designed half field reads, a couple with a sprint out to get him on the move. Then a few that were 1 man designs the whole way such as the flare to Kareem on that across action v man coverage.     It actually reminded me of something Young Shanny dialed up in the superbowl against New England which was also a touchdown to ( I believe) Devonta Freeman?

[gumby73]

10 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 Credit to stef and the offensive coaches. A couple of the suggestions I made - involve Kareem earlier and more often, then scrapping the outside zone and bootlegs, really helped make the offense work at times. 

They also did a pretty good job, at least by my initial watching yesterday,  of setting up Baker for success. I saw a few designed half field reads, a couple with a sprint out to get him on the move. Then a few that were 1 man designs the whole way such as the flare to Kareem on that across action v man coverage.    

Thanks! My drink free weekend, remembers a early gameday thread post about the same here ^^ Agreed on Hunt early!

The designed half reads, feels like a Van Pelt/Stef adjustment that sets up well for Baker seeing it.. The one bad forced ball deserved to be picked.. those need thrown away

[Kvoethe]

4 hours ago, lodilobo said:

After watching the exact same scenario play out numerous times this season, it's time to rethink the Browns situation. We've watched the same crap over and over this season. We get a substantial lead, with the offense working well, then in the 2nd half, the game plan changes to ultra conservative. This is not good coaching. I really like Stefanski, but he is an exact copy of Zimmer...the HC in Minnesota, who he worked under for years. I don't believe we can ever progress with this type of philosophy. I'm done blaming Mayfield, the defense, injuries, etc. This is a poorly designed offense and that needs to change.  The conservative play calling results in quick 3 and outs, which then forces the defense to get back on the field too soon. Then the opponent has the opportunity to come back. No...I'm not saying we should look for a new HC...I'm saying Stefanski needs to change his methods, or we will continue with the same results.

Change his name to Marty Schottenheimer

[nickers]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Thanks! My drink free weekend, remembers a early gameday thread post about the same here ^^ Agreed on Hunt early!

The designed half reads, feels like a Van Pelt/Stef adjustment that sets up well for Baker seeing it.. The one bad forced ball deserved to be picked.. those need thrown away

That pick looked to me like a communication misread by both the passer and intended WR..

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

That pick looked to me like a communication misread by both the passer and intended WR..

Yeah, I still can't figure that one out ...

1) Baker saw/throws to empty out area..Baker must see trailing defender in such area? Cause ball had enough zip on it

2) me thinks? Landry throws in a extra zag into his route too (seen only on TV slow-mo) ... Ball than looks to arrive hanging late/inside & behind 80..

pending look at all 22 might help Thursday

[hx214]

7 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I do the first read gets taken away Baker sits in a clean pocket puts his head down and tries to scramble out of it. 
 

I like me some tressel ball but you Can’t do it with a gunslinger, a shaky kicker and a punter you just pulled off the street.  

Ya, but we got three receivers jammed into a corner playing grab ass 6 yards up the field with one CB guarding them all.

I've seen a slant work before. I swear I have!

Christ, have a TE line up in the slot 5 wide and have him run 3 yards straight up the field and toss him the ball for 23 yards like every team seems to do to us

[ATOM]

in bakers presser he said that we got conservative in the 2nd half and the game never should have been that close

so was that a shot across the bow at Stefanski ?

[hx214]

1 minute ago, ATOM said:

in bakers presser he said that we got conservative in the 2nd half and the game never should have been that close

so was that a shot across the bow at Stefanski ?

Yep.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, ATOM said:

in bakers presser he said that we got conservative in the 2nd half and the game never should have been that close

so was that a shot across the bow at Stefanski ?

It absolutely is.

Yet Baker holds the ball and doesn’t have the confidence (it seems) to push the ball downfield.
 

and There are 31 starting QBs in the league that would love to have the time he has to stare down his first read.  

[ATOM]

3 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

It absolutely is.

Yet Baker holds the ball and doesn’t have the confidence (it seems) to push the ball downfield.
 

and There are 31 starting QBs in the league that would love to have the time he has to stare down his first read.  

we have been outscored 105-52 in the 4th quarter and 170-103 in the second half and have only scored  7 points combined  in the last 8 4th quarters

[Orion]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

That pick looked to me like a communication misread by both the passer and intended WR..

Yep.  Ball was deliberately thrown for an inside turn.  Receiver made an outside turn.  Who screwed up??   Baker gets the INT.  Team gives up the ball.  But the D held it to a 3 point wound. 

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

It absolutely is.

Yet Baker holds the ball and doesn’t have the confidence (it seems) to push the ball downfield.
 

and There are 31 starting QBs in the league that would love to have the time he has to stare down his first read.  

I wonder how many qb's in the NFL would love to have the wr group the Browns have...instead of their own......

 

[SdBacker80]

35 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I wonder how many qb's in the NFL would love to have the wr group the Browns have...instead of their own......

 

Throwing to Kareem and Chubb out of the backfield and a veteran like Jarvis Landry…and this TE group…you could certainly do worse.  DPJ doesn’t look bad toe tapping either.

What else does he need? 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Throwing to Kareem and Chubb out of the backfield and a veteran like Jarvis Landry…and this TE group…you could certainly do worse.  DPJ doesn’t look bad toe tapping either.

What else does he need? 

 

 

granted, except the wr group only Landry and Peoples-Jones have made any significant impact.

Higgins - nope. Schwartz, nope. Switzer (IR)- nope. that's it. There is LawrenceCager, the big guy, nope. I think he was an UDFA, must be on the practice squad?

 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, ATOM said:

we have been outscored 105-52 in the 4th quarter and 170-103 in the second half and have only scored  7 points combined  in the last 8 4th quarters

IIRC, that's dead last in the league.  

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I wonder how many qb's in the NFL would love to have the wr group the Browns have...instead of their own......

 

Plenty..  Just stop with our WRs are sub standard mantra, it's getting really old. 

FYI, that guy we couldn't run out of town fast enough had six catches on seven targets for 70+ yards  and a TD tonight.