Baker Mayfield

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, Zombo said:

We are 0-55 Super Bowls so far.

This is the best roster we have had in those 55 years.

Shoot him up and send him out there... Case Keenum is just a guy ... Baker is a Legend In Waiting.

Z

Of course he'll be a Cleveland Legend IF he wins a Super Bowl. Doubtless he's the best QB we've had since Bernie, and before that Otto. But I don't think there's anyone on the Board old enough to remember seeing him play. My 90+ year old Mom probably does though.   

From my medical perspective, it's just not that simple as "shooting a guy up" and sending him out there to face the opposition. Ballpeen and me happen to agree... Sending Mayfield to face the Steelers and Watt is (to my mind) tossing a bloodied Baker into a shark tank. 

PS- don't forget that "just a guy" Nick Foles won a Super Bowl when #1 QB Carson Wentz was shelved.  The Browns have some quality depth darn near everywhere, learn to appreciate it.   

[hx214]

21 hours ago, hoorta said:

P.S.- don't forget that "just a guy" Nick Foles won a Super Bowl when #1 QB Carson Wentz was shelved.  The Browns have some quality depth darn near everywhere, learn to appreciate it.   

Ya... But Nick Foles had a pretty awesome deep ball in his day.... We better hope the OLine and Chubb or Hunt are ready to go soon. Cause we ain't throwing deep with Case...

[D Bone]

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

[lodilobo]

Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.

[Unsympathetic]

Merge with other Baker thread

[Unsympathetic]

I think Baker is fine.

He's top10 overall and above Dak in AY/A at 8.5 vs Dak's 8.4.  That's addressing how deep the shots are and if he's hitting them.

 

By way of comparison, Darnold's AY/A was solid weeks 1-3 and was something like 1.5 vs Philly... which definitely matches the eye test, Darnold has been abysmal since week4.

[jrb12711]

20 hours ago, D Bone said:

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

To say it a bit differently, I feel like the Browns can win a very similar game to what we did last week against Pittsburgh at home. This feeling is only emboldened assuming (well, hoping) that Conklin and Chubb are back as well. Assuming Mayfield isn't going to go under the knife, is it worth another week of rest? 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

I think Baker is fine.

He's top10 overall and above Dak in AY/A at 8.5 vs Dak's 8.4.  That's addressing how deep the shots are and if he's hitting them.

 

By way of comparison, Darnold's AY/A was solid weeks 1-3 and was something like 1.5 vs Philly... which definitely matches the eye test, Darnold has been abysmal since week4.

.1...? Neat. 

 

Baker - 

7.13  NY/A

8.50 AYN/A

9.4% sck

CLE run % on 1st down. 42.95% 

 

Dak

- 7.87 NY/A

- 8.50 ANY/A 

- 3.6% sck 

- Also averaging 55ypg passing higher than Mayfield. 

DAL run % on 1st down. 31.1% 

 

Dallas is throwing earlier and often, and this shows up on film. Dak is playing at not only the comeback player level, but he's up there in terms of MVP talk.   He's been decisive, accurate and an even distributor not making many mistakes and seeing the field well.  This started right from the outset when McCarthy put the game in Dak's hands week 1 with a pass 1st, pass heavy approach. 

 

Saying Baker is playing on Daks level is... not accurate.   Especially given the Cowboys willingness to allow the pass to setup the run.

 

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Baker is terrific. His only weakness may be that he can't run and juke like Mahommes or Lamar Jackson. Speaking off, Jackson looked pitiful throwing vs the Bengals. I he couldn't run like a frightened jackrabbit, I don't know that he would be in the NFL.  Keeping him in the pocket is the hard part, and stopping him from throwing to a wide open Edwards is another thing.

Baker is seriously accomplished stats wise. He is the first Brown qb that I think is as smart as Bernie Kosar.

Strictly from a layman's point of view - do NOT start Baker vs the squealers. He's turn. "He won't hurt it worse" was ok to try until

his bone was broken. Gotta admire his desire to win, lead and leave it all out on the field every second of every game.

My concern is, he keeps injuring an injured shoulder, and repeated dislocations happen - it would stretch ligaments, damage cartilage, etc and ruin his career eventually. Let him heal, keep him on the sidelines. Keenum can play the game, he showed that already. The Browns won, and I figure his first game - instinctively he was a little rusty.

   Especially with both backup tackles out - I figure Wills will be fine in ten days...hopefully Conklin will be back.

"let Baker play" sounds pretty, but beauty is only skin deep. And the Browns will win the next couple of games with Keenum and they will be 6-3.

But it will take more than a few weeks for the fracture to truly heal, apparently.

https://woundcaresociety.org/long-fracture-take-heal

When it comes to different body parts, average healing times can span from three to ten weeks. For finger fractures, the average healing time lasts about three weeks,  metacarpal bones take four to six weeks, wrist fractures take four to six weeks as well, and lower arm will heal in eight to ten weeks. Humerus, a bone that runs from your shoulder to your elbow will need six to eight weeks to get back to normal, femur will need a little more than twelve weeks, and tibia, the bone that goes from your knees to your ankles will take about ten weeks to heal.

 

[hoorta]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:23 PM, D Bone said:

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired.  As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process.  MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the  first place Bengals in Cinci. 

7 hours ago, lodilobo said:

Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.

Well, Mahomes stunk against the  Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for  Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry  had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game.  The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency.  Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder,  but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit. 

Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as  Peyton. I'll happily take a couple  Super Bowl wins.

He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson.  However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive. 

[lodilobo]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired.  As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process.  MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the  first place Bengals in Cinci. 

Well, Mahomes stunk against the  Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for  Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry  had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game.  The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency.  Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder,  but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit. 

Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as  Peyton. I'll happily take a couple  Super Bowl wins.

He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson.  However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive. 

I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.

RE: Lamar- maybe.  Jackson gets away with a lot of crap because of his running ability. If you watched any of the Ravens- Bengals game, Cinci gave a clinic on how to contain him. And he took a bunch of serious hits both in the pocket and trying to run. He's a tough dude, but it's just a matter of time before he takes a kill shot that's going to limit his running ability.  

PS- watching that game, MHO- the Browns made a serious mistake letting Ogunjobi walk- he's playing lights out for the Bengals.   

[hoorta]

A few more random thoughts about Baker & the Browns... Is it his fault the Chargers put up 47 points against the Browns? It's been mentioned- the first time in NFL history a team scored 40+ points with zero turnovers- and lost.  Fire the defense, and trade Garrett immediately.   

Comparison wise- are any of you going to try and tell me Ryan Tannehill who's team just clobbered the Chiefs (Titan Up!!!) is any better than Mayfield? I don't think so. Some guys are never going to be happy regardless. We get a decent quarterback after 20 years in the football desert- and now that's not good enough- we need an all- time GOAT. FWIW, should the Browns win their next two games- we're right where we need to be. In the AFC- everyone is beating everyone else. 

Finally- practice today- Chubb and Conklin are back. Yay!!!  Baker was not. Reinforces my opinion. Sit him against the Steelers.  

[Neo]

I'm really at a loss for words right now when it comes to being a Browns fan. It seems there are people out there who don't want you to be happy no matter what, just doing whatever they can to drain whatever joy you have out of you. All this talk about wanting Baker to be traded for nobodies like Tua or whatever garbage qb is just disheartening. 

I have been critical of Baker but am not ready to give up on him by a long shot. It not just about winning,  it's about culture change and Baker leaves it all on the field. I cannot believe some of the shit I've read on this board and other places on the interwebs. He's already proved he can be a winner, he has proved he can improve, and he proved he can win playoff games. Give him a fucking chance and be patient!

[hoorta]

13 minutes ago, Neo said:

I'm really at a loss for words right now when it comes to being a Browns fan. It seems there are people out there who don't want you to be happy no matter what, just doing whatever they can to drain whatever joy you have out of you. All this talk about wanting Baker to be traded for nobodies like Tua or whatever garbage qb is just disheartening. 

I have been critical of Baker but am not ready to give up on him by a long shot. It not just about winning,  it's about culture change and Baker leaves it all on the field. I cannot believe some of the shit I've read on this board and other places on the interwebs. He's already proved he can be a winner, he has proved he can improve, and he proved he can win playoff games. Give him a fucking chance and be patient!

I've said it in the past- the Browns could win the Super Bowl and some of the Negative Nancys would tell you- we shoulda beat them worse..  

PS- I didn't want to edit my previous post, but the latest from the Blue Medical Tent is the Docs are telling Stefanski that Baker shouldn't play until he can reasonably protect himself from unnecessary hits.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

 PS- I didn't want to edit my previous post, but the latest from the Blue Medical Tent is the Docs are telling Stefanski that Baker shouldn't play until he can reasonably protect himself from unnecessary hits.  

I hate to say it, but for Baker's long term health and career it might be best to shut him down and have the surgery now. 

[Tour2ma]

31 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I hate to say it, but for Baker's long term health and career it might be best to shut him down and have the surgery now. 

Be still my heart...

[jiggins7919]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:23 PM, D Bone said:

So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.

I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team. 

This really breaks my heart. I tend to agree with you, but I don't think Case has enough to beat decent teams. That wind really affected his deep ball and I don't see the weather improving until around next June. We absolutely dominated the last game and only won by THREE. I definitely do not trust our defense, no matter of we on it gave up 14 points. If we didn't run out the clock and we punted, we would have lost that game. I'm sure of it. We need more points, we need more striking ability, and I think we need a defensive TD this Sunday in order to win. 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Be still my heart...

Nah Tour.. I'm 100% certain Baker is going to play sometime this season. Me and Ballpeen are also pretty upbeat that the Browns can handle the Steelers at home with Keenum at the controls. 

The following week on the road against the red hot Bengals? Not so much. 

[Neo]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

upbeat that the Browns can handle the Steelers at home with Keenum at the controls. 

The Steelers know we are hurting and Keenum will be running the show. Look for them to be throwing haymakers right out of the gate on both sides of the ball. If they can jump on us early and set the tone of the game, I don't think Keenum has a chance if we have to abandon our running game early. 

And we have to see how Stephanski calls the game. He's had a couple of head scatchers this year. 

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'm 100% certain Baker is going to play sometime this season.

If reapir by scope is possible then, yes...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

If reapir by scope is possible then, es...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

Scoping the shoulder might clean up some of the junk- but my research told me with a completely torn labrum- you have to do surgery to reattach it to the bone..  4 weeks healing time, minimum... That, and another 4-6 weeks of rehab to regain strength in the affected arm.  

LOL, Zombo told me Baker isn't my wife- true dat. But when Sue busted her humeral head in a ski accident- once she got her arm out of a sling, she couldn't even lift the affected arm to shoulder height.  

[Dutch Oven]

46 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If reapir by scope is possible then, yes...

 

But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Scoping the shoulder might clean up some of the junk- but my research told me with a completely torn labrum- you have to do surgery to reattach it to the bone..  4 weeks healing time, minimum... That, and another 4-6 weeks of rehab to regain strength in the affected arm.  

let's all first agree this may not be factual... he's not Baker's doctor... but, I've followed him for years, and he's mostly been spot on..

 

if i read questionable Friday? I also think Baker's a go 🤞

 

[jiggins7919]

Soooooooo, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I did totally tear my labrum and had the surgery. First off, the surgery wasn't bad, but the rehab was miserable. It felt like my shoulder would never be ok and it took months to get back to healthy. If he has a labrum surgery, he's gone. That simple. 

Case Keenum cannot win enough games to get us into the playoffs, that's the bottom line in my head. We absolutely dominated the Broncos and won by 3 effing points. That's not good enough. We can talk all day about how great our running game is but unless we get a vertical strike threat, we're toast. Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust. 

The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line. 

 

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust. 

Literal lol 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

And yet another?

 

 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! 😁

You call your friend an asshole this instant!

[Tour2ma]

We knew Schwartz was a raw sprinter when we drafted him.... give him some time.

[Tour2ma]

Oy vey....

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/baker-mayfield-still-hopes-to-face-the-steelers-sunday-and-definitely-has-a-chance-browns-insider.html