Baker Mayfield

[calfoxwc]

Notes:

Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.

I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.

But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit

number one.

    Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.

   Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.

I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).

   First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.

With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.

    And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.

The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.

You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.

So, there ya go...that's how I see it.

[SdBacker80]

28 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Notes:

Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.

I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.

But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit

number one.

    Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.

   Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.

I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).

   First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.

With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.

    And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.

The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.

You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.

So, there ya go...that's how I see it.

A few responses to some of these comments…

1. Keenum did step up and beat a .500 football team and it looked like the coaching staff had more trust in Keenum than they had with Mullens.

2.There’s a lot more to Murray than just having better WRs.  He moves much better in the pocket and outside of the pocket and He’s more accurate whether inside or outside of the pocket.  Two critical traits that make or break a QB.  And When the play breaks down (which happens 20-25%) there aren’t too many others I would take over Murray.

3.The Browns have the best engine (Oline) in the league. And it would like 10x better if our QB could process coverage quickly. 

[tiamat63]

Aaron Rodgers stats without Adams.

10-1 W/L, by the way. 

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-game-log-without-davante-adams

 

Why? Rodgers is an elite QB.   Having Adams makes the offense dangerous. But Even without him the offense is efficient, consistent and good. That's because Rodgers, not the skill  players, not the Oline and not the running game, is the foundation of GB.

 

It's a QB driven league.

[SkippinTurtles]

For competition sake, this team could have taken Mayfield and Josh Allen.  Maybe Allen never would have developed here.  CB's like Ward are potentially great.  Not like a freaky talent QB prospect when you have the 1st and 4th pick in the draft.  DB's don't change your franchise.

[Zombo]

I say we stick with Baker Mayfield.

He's on a team-friendly contract next year, and should be healthy, which should mean another playoff year like 2020.

I like him.

Z

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, Zombo said:

I say we stick with Baker Mayfield.

He's on a team-friendly contract next year, and should be healthy, which should mean another playoff year like 2020.

I like him.

Z

So do the Packers, the Ravens and Patriots.

 

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Aaron Rodgers stats without Adams.

10-1 W/L, by the way. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-game-log-without-davante-adams

Why? Rodgers is an elite QB.   Having Adams makes the offense dangerous. But Even without him the offense is efficient, consistent and good. That's because Rodgers, not the skill  players, not the Oline and not the running game, is the foundation of GB.

It's a QB driven league.

Odd, I clicked on Green Bay every single year, and Devonte Adams was there with a lot of catches. He missed some games and they still won. OK, but that is 114 games over all the years that they DID have Adams playing. It's a team game. Did they lose games because Rodgers was just an "average" qb? Did Rodgers ever play most of a season with a broken shoulder, badly torn labrum ?

Makes some folks wonder how Rodgers would have done with no Adams. That's 652 catches for 7,930 yards they would have lacked.

  Rodgers is great, so on, and so on. But Rodgers would have suffered badly had he gone to the Browns.

Baker piloted them to the playoffs last year. This year is a debacle. Getting rid of Baker does not fix the wide receiver problem the Browns have had for some years.

https://www.nfl.com/players/davante-adams/stats/career

Receiving

YEAR	TEAM	G	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	1st	1st%	20+	40+
TOTAL		114	652	7930	12.2	436	72	397	60.89	102	25
2021	Green Bay Packers	14	106	1362	12.9	59	10	73	68.87	18	4
2020	Green Bay Packers	14	115	1374	12	56	18	73	63.48	18	5
2019	Green Bay Packers	12	83	997	12	58	5	54	65.06	12	2
2018	Green Bay Packers	15	111	1386	12.5	57	13	64	57.66	18	5
2017	Green Bay Packers	14	74	885	12	55	10	45	60.81	8	3
2016	Green Bay Packers	16	75	997	13.3	66	12	45	60	17	4
2015	Green Bay Packers	13	50	483	9.7	40	1	20	40	6	1
2014	Green Bay Packers	16	38	446	11.7	45	3	23	60.53	5	1

[Dutch Oven]

13 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Odd, I clicked on Green Bay every single year, and Devonte Adams was there with a lot of catches.

https://www.nfl.com/players/davante-adams/stats/career

Receiving

YEAR	TEAM	G	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	1st	1st%	20+	40+
TOTAL		114	652	7930	12.2	436	72	397	60.89	102	25
2021	Green Bay Packers	14	106	1362	12.9	59	10	73	68.87	18	4
2020	Green Bay Packers	14	115	1374	12	56	18	73	63.48	18	5
2019	Green Bay Packers	12	83	997	12	58	5	54	65.06	12	2
2018	Green Bay Packers	15	111	1386	12.5	57	13	64	57.66	18	5
2017	Green Bay Packers	14	74	885	12	55	10	45	60.81	8	3
2016	Green Bay Packers	16	75	997	13.3	66	12	45	60	17	4
2015	Green Bay Packers	13	50	483	9.7	40	1	20	40	6	1
2014	Green Bay Packers	16	38	446	11.7	45	3	23	60.53	5	1

Jesus, you are dense.

Yes, he's played in a lot of games, but if you take 12 seconds anyone with third grade math skills can see he's missed some games over his career.

And lo and behold, tia has produced a fact that Aaron Rodgers is 10-1 in his career in games Adams has not played.

It's not as difficult as you always make every thing, cal. 

[tiamat63]

50 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

Makes some folks wonder how Rodgers would have done with no Adams. 

 

Without Adams? ....... Rodgers won a super bowl with two 2nd round WR's and a 6th round rookie RB who didn't take his first NFL snap until December of said rookie season. 

Even more funny - Rodgers averages 66.5% comp without Adam's.  Meanwhile your benchmark for Bakers "return to form" season of 2020 he averaged 62.8% comp. 

Rodgers is damn near 4% full points higher than Baker - WITHOUT Adams, compared to Mayfield's best season. That also includes a higher average in passing attempts as well vs Bakers 2020 average.  

 Any skill player currently on the Browns roster becomes an absolute weapon with Rodgers throwing to them.  Meanwhile do you think Devonte puts up similar stats if he swapped places and came to CLE?   Why is that?

So the difference has to be the level of play from your signal caller.

Elite QB's take average skill players and make them good. There is a long history to speak to this.     The other way around? Not so much.  

[calfoxwc]

49 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Without Adams? ....... Rodgers won a super bowl with two 2nd round WR's and a 6th round rookie RB who didn't take his first NFL snap until December of said rookie season. 

Even more funny - Rodgers averages 66.5% comp without Adam's.  Meanwhile your benchmark for Bakers "return to form" season of 2020 he averaged 62.8% comp. 

Rodgers is damn near 4% full points higher than Baker - WITHOUT Adams, compared to Mayfield's best season. That also includes a higher average in passing attempts as well vs Bakers 2020 average.  

 Any skill player currently on the Browns roster becomes an absolute weapon with Rodgers throwing to them.  Meanwhile do you think Devonte puts up similar stats if he swapped places and came to CLE?   Why is that?

So the difference has to be the level of play from your signal caller.

Elite QB's take average skill players and make them good. There is a long history to speak to this.     The other way around? Not so much.  

and how long has Rodgers been playing the same system? with the same coaches? How long has he been in the league?

All sorts of qb;s who were NOT elite have been to the superbowl. They had defenses and talented players around them to get them there. Baker is hurt, still playing, which I thought before the squealers game he should have sat on the bench....and he doesn't have a star wr to make the offense work right. and a rookie coach last year. another new system.

It's more complicated than "Baker sucks, any other qb because I'm mad we didn't get to the playoffs maybe"

Baker isn't Rodgers, he isn't easily replaceable when healthy.

Like I said earlier, Brady laid an egg two games ago - couldn't even muster a field goal. Your idea of "the qb makes the wr's around him superstars" whatever.....I just disagree with. The Bucs lost 9-0. But, Both Evans and Godwin were hurt. Zero points.

Did Brady forget how to "raise the level of play" etc etc ? nope. He didn't have his star wr's, that is what the story is.

Furthermore, look at the difference between Brady and Gronkowski, and  Brady without Gronkowski - a star elite TE makes a huge difference.

So, Baker doesn't even have a #1 wr on the roster. Give him a star wr and see how much a huge difference that makes.

If the Browns want to upgrade, I'm happy with it. It will have to be PIckett, Strong or Corral, and they will probably all be gone if the Brown win their last two games.

I don't care who the qb is - if wr's don't get open, he can't throw completions to them a lot of the time. Outside of Landry - vs man to man, nope. That's why Higgins hasn't played much at all. I just wish Schwartz could have made a bigger difference his first year.

    Baker got the Browns to the playoffs last year. Do you think that Devonte Adams would not have made any difference?

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

and how long has Rodgers been playing the same system? with the same coaches? How long has he been in the league?

All sorts of qb;s who were NOT elite have been to the superbowl. They had defenses and talented players around them to get them there. Baker is hurt, still playing, which I thought before the squealers game he should have sat on the bench....and he doesn't have a star wr to make the offense work right. and a rookie coach last year. another new system.

It's more complicated than "Baker sucks, any other qb because I'm mad we didn't get to the playoffs maybe"

Baker isn't Rodgers, he isn't easily replaceable when healthy.

Like I said earlier, Brady laid an egg two games ago - couldn't even muster a field goal. Your idea of "the qb makes the wr's around him superstars" whatever.....I just disagree with. The Bucs lost 9-0. But, Both Evans and Godwin were hurt. Zero points.

Did Brady forget how to "raise the level of play" etc etc ? nope. He didn't have his star wr's, that is what the story is.

Furthermore, look at the difference between Brady and Gronkowski, and  Brady without Gronkowski - a star elite TE makes a huge difference.

So, Baker doesn't even have a #1 wr on the roster. Give him a star wr and see how much a huge difference that makes.

If the Browns want to upgrade, I'm happy with it. It will have to be PIckett, Strong or Corral, and they will probably all be gone if the Brown win their last two games.

I don't care who the qb is - if wr's don't get open, he can't throw completions to them a lot of the time. Outside of Landry - vs man to man, nope. That's why Higgins hasn't played much at all. I just wish Schwartz could have made a bigger difference his first year.

    Baker got the Browns to the playoffs last year. Do you think that Devonte Adams would not have made any difference?

Cal, you're just arguing in circles. 

1) Baker isn't an "elite" qb by a long shot.  Pretty good, if everything around him is perfect.

2) If  you think a super stud WR is going to make a huge difference in his play. I disagree on a couple counts. 1) He's a 1\2 second slow 90% of the time getting the ball out. 2) When his #1 option is covered, he dances like a ballerina trying to go through his progressions, and takes far too many needless sacks. 3) Way too often he's forcing the ball into coverage, while if he had better field vision- he'd notice there's other WRs who are wide open.  

3) Yeah, Brady had a lousy game against the Saints- even the great ones do on occasion. Only game this year he's been under a 60 qbr...  Don't think you can say that for Baker. 

4) Aw, he's hurt. You get zero sympathy points from the opposition. 

 

[Unsympathetic]

QB's in 2021 with 4 games under 60 QBR: Baker, Darnold, Zach Wilson.  Hey, he's tied for a league lead in something!

[TexasAg1969]

14 hours ago, Zombo said:

I say we stick with Baker Mayfield.

He's on a team-friendly contract next year........

Z

$$ friendly, team detractor = short playoff run if we even get there again. Defenses have figured him out.

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

$$ friendly, team detractor = short playoff run if we even get there again. Defenses have figured him out.

Might be a little generous here- although the roster is good (people want to argue that) anything similar in regard to his QB play Is 8-9 or 9-8 type ball.

Many on here need to recalibrate their thinking.  It is a deep postseason run/Super Bowl.  Erase the 0-16 1-15 type years from the memory banks. 

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

and how long has Rodgers been playing the same system? with the same coaches? How long has he been in the league?

All sorts of qb;s who were NOT elite have been to the superbowl. They had defenses and talented players around them to get them there. Baker is hurt, still playing, which I thought before the squealers game he should have sat on the bench....and he doesn't have a star wr to make the offense work right. and a rookie coach last year. another new system.

It's more complicated than "Baker sucks, any other qb because I'm mad we didn't get to the playoffs maybe"

Baker isn't Rodgers, he isn't easily replaceable when healthy.

Like I said earlier, Brady laid an egg two games ago - couldn't even muster a field goal. Your idea of "the qb makes the wr's around him superstars" whatever.....I just disagree with. The Bucs lost 9-0. But, Both Evans and Godwin were hurt. Zero points.

Did Brady forget how to "raise the level of play" etc etc ? nope. He didn't have his star wr's, that is what the story is.

Furthermore, look at the difference between Brady and Gronkowski, and  Brady without Gronkowski - a star elite TE makes a huge difference.

So, Baker doesn't even have a #1 wr on the roster. Give him a star wr and see how much a huge difference that makes.

If the Browns want to upgrade, I'm happy with it. It will have to be PIckett, Strong or Corral, and they will probably all be gone if the Brown win their last two games.

I don't care who the qb is - if wr's don't get open, he can't throw completions to them a lot of the time. Outside of Landry - vs man to man, nope. That's why Higgins hasn't played much at all. I just wish Schwartz could have made a bigger difference his first year.

    Baker got the Browns to the playoffs last year. Do you think that Devonte Adams would not have made any difference?

In order 

- 2 years under the new system with Lafleaur.  Same amount of time as Baker with Stef

- I'm not arguing "Baker sucks".  You're putting words in my mouth that don't exist.  Your mention of QB's that have made the SB on the strength of the running game and defense is cool, until you realize those teams and their superbowl/playoff windows were closed shortly after because of the QB play and their records leveled off. 

2000 Ravens leveled off to mediocre play for multiple years

2002 Bucs ended up being one of the worst teams in the NFL for nearly 20 years barring a decent season here or there 

Steelers had a young Ben and leaned on him to a 2nd superbowl 3 years after their 05 win.  In that same mold, the Gmen leaned on Eli a few years after that 07 win.  Would they have likely done either with Kerry Collins? The 1st, maybe. The 2nd? Not so much. 

2012 had Flacco but forgotten since then was just how insane Anquon Boldin went that post season. I don't remember a 50/50 ball that he didn't come down with.  In turn the Ravens have Joe a top 5 contract and he rewarded them with bottom 15 play the rest of his time in Baltimore. 

2015 was the corpse of Peyton Manning, Broncos have been woeful since. 

Who else is there, honestly?  If you're banking a CLE superbowl hope on one magical year of historic NFL defense, punishing running game and good fortune, then I'm here to break the reality to you - it's a rare formula that burns out as quickly as it sparks. 

Your rebuttal of my QB's making players around them better is 2 games in 2 season of a 45 year old Brady?  That's it? You're going to ignore every other year and the hundreds of games beyond that... which just only one QB. Seriously, why do I bother? Wes Welker was an UDFA, Julian Edlemen was a 7th round pick, Danny Woodhead was an UDFA, Deion Branch was a 3rd round pick.  James white was a 3rd round pick,  Chris Hogan was an UDFA.   I could keep going and that was just with Brady & the Pat's.  I mean, did anyone know who Scotty Miller was before Brady got to Tampa Bay?  Don't be Retarded.  For every example of a bad game you can give me, Brady has at minimum a dozen more to offset it.

My point boils down to this - even without Adams, Rodgers is clearly better than Baker when everyone was healthy and balling in 2020.  Put Adam's on the 2020 Browns and I'm positive it helps, but I'm equally as positive that Rodgers numbers still exceed Baker's.  

And THAT is the issue.  I'm not able to maximize the potential talent on the roster because of the limitations of my QB.  Because of that, I'm forced to draft potential dominant talent to help offset this imbalance.   The same can be said for the Oline. I have to invest such significant resources because my QB's ability to work behind an average line is disproportionate to other NFL QB's. 

Your arguement is that Baker is closer to elite than average.   My arguement is the opposite, only difference is there's a ton more evidence to my argument.  Even when you remove the question of injury, I've highlighted issues as far back as last season.

There isn't a point you can make that I cannot refute entirely.  Which is why I'm going to sit back and let time vindicate my stance.  I'll just keep doing my film work in the meantime.

Edit: I hope and pray I'm wrong. I'm tired of seeing questionable QB play in CLE.  But I'm generally far more correct than incorrect, so the odds aren't in favor of Baker lasting barring miracle turnaround next season.

As it stands, with a front office that didn't draft him, a day 2 QB wouldn't surprise me.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

$$ friendly, team detractor = short playoff run if we even get there again. Defenses have figured him out. 

We're on the same page there Tex. I'm seriously concerned that's the case.  My only faint hope is what Kurt Warner had to say about Baker. That the shoulder harness he's wearing to prevent further damage is seriously messing up his mechanics. 

But based on stuff some of us are seeing, is even a surgically repaired Baker going to be  good enough next season to get the Browns to the Super Bowl?  Since I live 50 miles from the heart of Bungle land, I take a lot of flack because of my scouting of said team. Start of the season, I said Baker only had to be as good as  Andy Dalton. I'm beginning to doubt he's ever even going to be on that level. And I watched dozens of Andy's games. 

Hate to break it to the sunshine pumpers, but there's a new QB sherriff in the AFC North, and it sure as hell isn't Baker. Guy by the name of Joe Burrow, who's been playing like Joe Montana of late. Um, he just lit up Baltimore for 500 passing yards- for the second time this year. It's almost laughable (if it wasn't so sad) watching Joe's level of play then comparing it to Bakers.

[Zombo]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

$$ friendly, team detractor = short playoff run if we even get there again. Defenses have figured him out.

Team Detractor??

Look, Bake is the man going forward. He's the starter in 2022 and he'll be playing for a contract next year, 2023 would be the year we would move on from him if we do ... so why you are all being obsessed with his status right now is strange to me.

With a full week of practice I think we'll put together a nice game plan for Pittsburgh and succeed... Baker included. Then the Bungles come to town, and Baker owns them.

Z

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Edit: I hope and pray I'm wrong. I'm tired of seeing questionable QB play in CLE.  But I'm generally far more correct than incorrect, so the odds aren't in favor of Baker lasting barring miracle turnaround next season.

As it stands, with a front office that didn't draft him, a day 2 QB wouldn't surprise me.

Points well taken. However, just because you can counter my statements on the flip side, doesn't refute my statements. Don't be Retarded. The point is, it is more complicated than bad play this year.

   Drew Brees. Struggled his first three years in the NFL. Then , paydirt. However, go back and look. The Saints drafted Donte Stallworth FIRST ROUND, nfl draft, 13th overall in 2002. Brees was drafted the previous year. In 2004, They drafted Devery Henderson in the 2nd Round. Henderson was a star wr with the champion LSU Tigers, and also was a track star - ran a 4.36 forty. So that gave Brees two star wr's.

In 2007, the Saints drafted Robert Meachem, WR, first round. The Saints won their division in 06. They won the superbowl in 09.

The Browns hadn't drafted a wr in the first two rounds - well, the last time was corey coleman, huge bust. Baker isn't "average" at all - he isn't ELITE, but he is plenty good enough to take the Browns to the superbowl, if they could give HIM a few stars at wr in the draft, too.

One flip side does not refute the other side of the coin. I'm saying the Browns can win with Baker, he's good enough and then some. But no qb can come in and do great things with only one wr that can get open, and Jarvis has been in the league since 2014.

The Saints didn't dump Drew Brees, they fixed the WR problem, etc. That's all I"m saying.

I didn't say Baker was anywhere near the qb that Rodgers is.

NOTE: back in 2008, Rodgers' first full season starting.... the packers went 6-10. Know who they drafted with their first pick that same year? Jordy Nelson, WR.

Remember Jordy Nelson? All-American star WR. See the Trend there?

The Browns have ignored the wr position because they had serious needs due to poor drafting

at other positons for years. They draft brilliant now. It's time to draft a star WR for Baker to help the offense roll.

Oh, btw, the packers went 11-5 in 09.

***************************************************

Jordy Nelson

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

Jump to navigation Jump to search

Jordy Nelson

Nelson with the Green Bay Packers in 2017
No. 87, 82
Position:	Wide receiver
Personal information
Born:	May 31, 1985 (age 36) Manhattan, Kansas
Height:	6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)
Weight:	217 lb (98 kg)
Career information
High school:	Riley County (Riley, Kansas)
College:	Kansas State
NFL Draft:	2008 / Round: 2 / Pick: 36
Career history
Green Bay Packers (2008–2017) Oakland Raiders (2018)
Career highlights and awards
Super Bowl champion (XLV) NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2016) Second-team All-Pro (2014) Pro Bowl (2014) NFL receiving touchdowns leader (2016) Best Comeback Athlete ESPY Award (2017) Consensus All-American (2007) First-team All-Big 12 (2007)
Career NFL statistics
Receptions: 613 Receiving yards: 8,587 Receiving touchdowns: 72 Return yards: 1,436
Player stats at NFL.com · PFR

Jordy Ray Nelson (born May 31, 1985) is a former American football wide receiver who played in the National Football League for 11 seasons with the Green Bay Packers and the Oakland Raiders. He played college football at Kansas State, where he received All-American honors, and was drafted by Green Bay in the second round of the 2008 NFL Draft. During his tenure in Green Bay, he was regarded by sports analysts as one of the elite wide receivers in the NFL, and won Super Bowl XLV with the team over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2010 season.^{[1][2][3][4][5]} After spending 10 seasons in Green Bay, he played one year with the Oakland Raiders before announcing his retirement.

 

[hoorta]

25 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Team Detractor??

Look, Bake is the man going forward. He's the starter in 2022 and he'll be playing for a contract next year, 2023 would be the year we would move on from him if we do ... so why you are all being obsessed with his status right now is strange to me.

With a full week of practice I think we'll put together a nice game plan for Pittsburgh and succeed... Baker included. Then the Bungles come to town, and Baker owns them.

Z

Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy.. Whatever Z. Baker rightfully apologized for his shitty play against the Packers. Better pray that was just rust. Vagitron has been scarce around here of late, but expect the Sqealers to be pumped up to send Big Ben off into the sunset with his last home win.

Should the Bengals manage to beat the Chiefs Sunday, we're just going to be playing for pride Monday night. Don't forget that little factoid. 

And as to "owning" the Bengals,  maybe you've missed on how they've been playing of late. See any of those highlights where they totally demolished the Ravens?  FWIW, Harbaugh was sort of bitching that the Bengals were running up the score.  

Finally,  said it elsewhere. Baker being gift wrapped the starters job in 2022 will be largely dependent on how well (or not) he plays in these last two games. A final record of 7-10, and I expect some QB shopping to occur in the off season. 

[calfoxwc]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal, you're just arguing in circles. 

1) Baker isn't an "elite" qb by a long shot.  Pretty good, if everything around him is perfect.

2) If  you think a super stud WR is going to make a huge difference in his play. I disagree on a couple counts. 1) He's a 1\2 second slow 90% of the time getting the ball out. 2) When his #1 option is covered, he dances like a ballerina trying to go through his progressions, and takes far too many needless sacks. 3) Way too often he's forcing the ball into coverage, while if he had better field vision- he'd notice there's other WRs who are wide open.  

3) Yeah, Brady had a lousy game against the Saints- even the great ones do on occasion. Only game this year he's been under a 60 qbr...  Don't think you can say that for Baker. 

4) Aw, he's hurt. You get zero sympathy points from the opposition. 

 

1. I did not say Baker was elite. He has some elite traits, ok, a few. But Drew Brees "wasn't elite" til they fixed the wr position, etc.

Just because I'm explaining one side, and Tiam explained the other side, doesn't mean I'm circling.

2. Yes, go read my reply to Tiam -  Drew Brees, read that. With no stars (outside of Landry who is getting up there/injured...) Baker doesn't have wide open wr's most of the time. Forcing into coverage is a last resort of that. Missing open wr's? sure. Barfslinbooger missed a wipe open wr/te glaringly in the Steelers-Browns game. so what. If the defense plays man to man vs HIggins, I wouldn't try to look his way so much - he isn't good at that, so if he DID get open, I would have already went to another read.

3. Well, look at Drew Brees again. Brees, in 2012, threw 19 interceptions. 2014 - 17 ints. 2016 - 15 ints. In 2020 - Baker only threw 8. In 2021, he's thrown 11. (ok, he had 19 in 2019) lol

In Rodgers first year starting, he threw 13 interceptions that year. So bashing Baker for ints? baloney. It's a team game, and the Browns need a star WR badly. They haven't drafted one in several years. That's all I'm saying.

 

[7moses7]

Bottom line - Baker fucking blows 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Hate to break it to the sunshine pumpers, but there's a new QB sherriff in the AFC North, and it sure as hell isn't Baker. Guy by the name of Joe Burrow, who's been playing like Joe Montana of late. Um, he just lit up Baltimore for 500 passing yards- for the second time this year. It's almost laughable (if it wasn't so sad) watching Joe's level of play then comparing it to Bakers.

 

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Team Detractor??

With a full week of practice I think we'll put together a nice game plan for Pittsburgh and succeed... Baker included. Then the Bungles come to town, and Baker owns them.

Z

See hoorta's post above yours here. Cincy is about to own the Browns. And even though I might give the edge to us against Pitt normally, not in Big Ben's last home game ever. That team will play with their hair on fire to let him go out a winner against the Browns, a team that right now does not resemble the Mauling Chiefs that just killed them in Arrowhead thanks to a real top notch NFL QB who can win even without Kelce (oh, and find many different receivers all over the field).

[nickers]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

1. I did not say Baker was elite. He has some elite traits, ok, a few. But Drew Brees "wasn't elite" til they fixed the wr position, etc.

Just because I'm explaining one side, and Tiam explained the other side, doesn't mean I'm circling.

2. Yes, go read my reply to Tiam -  Drew Brees, read that. With no stars (outside of Landry who is getting up there/injured...) Baker doesn't have wide open wr's most of the time. Forcing into coverage is a last resort of that. Missing open wr's? sure. Barfslinbooger missed a wipe open wr/te glaringly in the Steelers-Browns game. so what. If the defense plays man to man vs HIggins, I wouldn't try to look his way so much - he isn't good at that, so if he DID get open, I would have already went to another read.

3. Well, look at Drew Brees again. Brees, in 2012, threw 19 interceptions. 2014 - 17 ints. 2016 - 15 ints. In 2020 - Baker only threw 8. In 2021, he's thrown 11. (ok, he had 19 in 2019) lol

In Rodgers first year starting, he threw 13 interceptions that year. So bashing Baker for ints? baloney. It's a team game, and the Browns need a star WR badly. They haven't drafted one in several years. That's all I'm saying.

 

We had a Star wideout... He pouted his way outta town through his daddy...

[calfoxwc]

9 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 

See hoorta's post above yours here. Cincy is about to own the Browns. And even though I might give the edge to us against Pitt normally, not in Big Ben's last home game ever. That team will play with their hair on fire to let him go out a winner against the Browns, a team that right now does not resemble the Mauling Chiefs that just killed them in Arrowhead thanks to a real top notch NFL QB who can win even without Kelce (oh, and find many different receivers all over the field).

Burrow is terrific.

He also has:

Ja'Marr Chase - 2021 FIRST ROUND, #5 pick overall.WR

Tee HIggins - 2020 SECOND ROUND

Tyler Boyd - 2016 SECOND ROUND pick, WR

If Burrow was with the Browns, he'd go through hell

[7moses7]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Burrow is terrific.

He also has:

Ja'Marr Chase - 2021 FIRST ROUND, #5 pick overall.WR

Tee HIggins - 2020 SECOND ROUND

Tyler Boyd - 2016 SECOND ROUND pick, WR

If Burrow was with the Browns, he'd go through hell

WRONG!!!!  Burrow can see past the 1st option 

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, 7moses7 said:

WRONG!!!!  Burrow can see past the 1st option 

Not wrong. Hell, I could see past the first option with those three dynamic star WR's.

Honestly, how does anyone know that Baker isn't on his 2nd/3rd read when a first read wr finally gets open?

A look at the excellent chemistry between Joe Burrow and ...

https://www.msn.com › en-us › sports › nfl › a-look-at-the-excellent-chemistry-between-joe-burrow-and-his-receivers-vs-the-titans › ar-AAMjMp6

Burrow was 26 of 37 for 249 yards and 2 touchdowns on the day, but that stat line doesn't really do justice to his performance. Burrow and his receivers did some special things in this game.

BTW, go back and look at the Browns vs Cincy this year. 41-6 sound familiar?

Baker qb rating: 132

Burrow qb rating: 69

 

[7moses7]

7 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Not wrong. Hell, I could see past the first option with those three dynamic star WR's.

Honestly, how does anyone know that Baker isn't on his 2nd/3rd read when a first read wr finally gets open?

A look at the excellent chemistry between Joe Burrow and ...

https://www.msn.com › en-us › sports › nfl › a-look-at-the-excellent-chemistry-between-joe-burrow-and-his-receivers-vs-the-titans › ar-AAMjMp6

Burrow was 26 of 37 for 249 yards and 2 touchdowns on the day, but that stat line doesn't really do justice to his performance. Burrow and his receivers did some special things in this game.

BTW, go back and look at the Browns vs Cincy this year. 41-6 sound familiar?

Baker qb rating: 132

Burrow qb rating: 69

 

That’s 1 game you dipshit

[calfoxwc]

10 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

That’s 1 game you dipshit

So, no "average he blows" qb could have accomplished that. Asswhole.

[tiamat63]

34 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

Honestly, how does anyone know that Baker isn't on his 2nd/3rd read when a first read wr finally gets open?

 

 

Because if you've paid ANY attention to the work I've done and spelled out on this forum, you'd see that I've shown receivers (not just TE's) get open rather routinely and Baker misses them.

10th post down on the last page is the clutch example from the first Pittsburgh game.

 

It's right there, pictures and everything with my diagraming of both the routes and the defense.

 

How does ANYONE know? Because when you invest the time to seek the answers, you tend to find them.

 

 

[Chicopee John]

18 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

 

To a certain extent, I DO believe the Browns need some WRs who can actually catch the football.  While I stated by belief in the talent-level of Mayfield, he did throw a number of balls against the Packers that should have been caught.

Then, I think...............................

Duper and Clayton weren't HOF WRs but Marino made them look pretty darn good.

The Pats have had a number of WRs that never made great WRs but Brady made them look pretty darn good (rotating Slot Receivers, as the main example)

Rogers is a HOF QB whose WRs seemingly, make great catch after great catch.

However,  is it that these QBs actually put the ball in precisely the right spot, at precisely the right time, at precisely the right speed and rotation that allow the WRs to make seemingly great catches?

Maybe Baker cannot do any of the above and that is why the WRs drop so many passes.

Just a thought

On non-physical competencies:

I fear that - whatever Mayfield may make up next year by being physically fit - will be lost by the lack of material between the ears.  

Remember he is 0-7 on possible game winning drives.  That goes back to the Chiefs' playoff game last year.  He just didn't do it then or since when the game is on the line.

I shudder to think that big-mouth Rex Ryan was right about him all these years.