Baker Mayfield

[Gorka]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Simple but true   -but- . it would go for almost anything like  you know you've got a good pizza when there's no debate on whether or not it's a good pizza......eh ?  

You can say that, but that sounds like you're getting into peoples taste's.  Their taste in cars, music, etc.

The type of QB fans prefer has nothing to do with whether they are good or bad.

 

[Flugel]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:54 PM, Dutch Oven said:

At the end of the day, I think Baker is the QB of the Browns in 2022. 

But IMO it's 50/50 beyond that. I honestly have no idea either way. 

That makes 2 of us. 

I am one that was thrilled we drafted Baker; and I still am.  If you look at the group of WRs we've been putting on the field all year including OBJ - the only guy that remotely excites me is DPJ (who should be a #2 WR elsewhere that is easily the best WR this team has).  Today, I'm watching Ohio State with the type of pass pro, offensive system/coaching and talent on the perimeter that makes playing QB confident and fun.  The NFL is a game of matchups and what WR represents our winning matchup out there?  Schwartz has speed but he looks like Edward Scissorhands trying to catch a football.  Landry looks like 20% of the player (due to injuries) he was when Baker was a rookie.  And OBJ?  If anyone thinks this is the same guy he was before the brutal ankle fracture in NY and the 2 major injuries since - I have some land for sale in Alligator Alley.  Would Schwartz or Hollywood Higgins even get playing time anywhere in the AFC North beside Cleveland?  The Browns are a Higgins' fumble before the pylon away from an AFC Championship appearance in January 2021.  People wanting to pin everything on Baker don't want to hear that; but let's be honest with ourselves here - it mattered on the road. Having said that, I will say Baker done nothing to silence his critics this season.  

Unfortunately, the Browns aren't a hard team to play defense against right now.  1 position that needs to be addressed this off season is WR - and it's not like Columbus is that far for the Browns' scouting department to travel.

The Browns have an ideal run blocking line with some quality depth at RB; but a coaching staff like NE will put their pass pro and QB decisions on trial (especially with the WR Corps not winning very many matchups).  

I see an 8-9 caliber football team right now.  I'd love it if only 1 player was the problem; but is it ever that easy?  Hope I'm wrong!

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:37 PM, hoorta said:

Nice try when Tia shows our highest paid TE in the NFL  breaking open over the middle- and Baker is slow getting the ball to him. That Cal isn't an isolated instance, not by a long shot.  It also will be IMHO- what's going to separate Baker from the Brady's and Aaron Rodgers of the NFL world. his internal clock can't process what he's seeing (not quite) fast enough.  We've become so accustomed to the garbage we've seen at QB, just having a guy who's average is an improvement

Oh, no. Baker didn't see our TE open? that "proves" he's only average? I'm telling you it's a TEAM GAME.

well, if that is your and Tiam's criteria, you think Tom Brady is only "average" and Brothlessbooger is only "average".

******************************************************

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/tom-brady-struggles-finding-wide-receivers

Tom Brady aware of struggles finding open wide receivers this season

******************************************************

Steelers QB, OC Not Worried About Silly Official Run/Pass ...

https://steelersdepot.com › 2018 › 12 › steelers-qb-oc-not-worried-about-silly-official-run-pass-ratios

Oh and let's not forget about Roethlisberger missing wide-open wide receiver Justin Hunter in the end zone a few games ago.

 

*****************************************************II

you mentioned Rodgers, btw, do you see a Devonte Adams on the Browns roster? yes or no? He's been All pro, you know. 2nd round draft pick in 2014. Rodgers has thrown to Adams about 61? times this season? Don't you wish Baker had a Devonte Adams?

********************************************************

Tom Brady, Tampa Bay defense continue to struggle in ...

https://www.foxsports.com › stories › nfl › tom-brady-interceptions-results-in-a-second-straight-loss-for-the-buccaneers

Tom Brady's turnover bug results in a second straight loss for the Buccaneers. Any time Tom Brady doesn't play like Tom Brady, it's noteworthy. To see him falter two weeks in a row is an ...

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

That makes 2 of us. 

Unfortunately, the Browns aren't a hard team to play defense against right now.  1 position that needs to be addressed this off season is WR - and it's not like Columbus is that far for the Browns' scouting department to travel.

The Browns have an ideal run blocking line with some quality depth at RB; but a coaching staff like NE will put their pass pro and QB decisions on trial (especially with the WR Corps not winning very many matchups).  

I see an 8-9 caliber football team right now.  I'd love it if only 1 player was the problem; but is it ever that easy?  Hope I'm wrong!

Yes, I caught the Buckeyes game. That was a total demolition of a ranked team.  They have a couple decent receivers that would look good in Brown & Orange. It was Duck Season in Salt Lake City. Time for OSU to jump Alabama in the polls. Will the Committee put the Bearcats in the top four? I sure hope so.  Especially assuming Georgia rolls the Tide in the SEC Championship.    

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yes, I caught the Buckeyes game. That was a total demolition of a ranked team.  They have a couple decent receivers that would look good in Brown & Orange. It was Duck Season in Salt Lake City. Time for OSU to jump Alabama in the polls. Will the Committee put the Bearcats in the top four? I sure hope so.  Especially assuming Georgia rolls the Tide in the SEC Championship.    

Agreed!  Now back to the reason I brought up the WR position - are we sure it's JUST Baker we need to upgrade asap?   And I'm impressed with how many people think Lamar Jackson is hard to stop; especially considering he wasn't exactly Josh Rosen PRE-draft.  The convenient out for all of Rosen's pre-draft fans was "bad football team - poor guy just didn't have a chance."  Sticking with such a precedent, what was the record of the team that drafted Baker?  

I've seen enough of the guy to know what he CAN do even as a wide eyed rookie entering his 1st game with a 14 point deficit and leading the Browns to victory.  Just to recap, the 0-16 team started his rookie year 0-1-1.  Still a worthless team without him on the field.  Next thing you know the team went 7-7 in the games he played; and he's setting a TD passing record for rookie QBs on a franchise with a record of 1-32-1 in the 34 games before he 1st entered the field.  In 2019, the Browns lost both starting Tackles in the opener plus the 1st backup at LT all in 1 game vrs TN.  That season became a necessary backward step  that the FO used to draft Wills and sign Conklin as priorities to the 2020 offense that won 11 regular season games + 1 playoff game where the Browns score 48 points AT PITTSBURGH.  So let's get rid of Baker so we can return to watching this franchise draft QBs the way it has done since 1999?  It's been THAT fun has it?

More math?  Have we forgotten the inventory of Offensive Coordinators here that the young QB had to learn and deprogram?  And people act like if THIS franchise just drafted Lamar Jackson he'd be in 1 piece ALLOWED to do the stuff seemingly only Baltimore was interested in letting him do as soon as they submitted their draft selection of him. Hue Jackson would have put him on a leash saying QBs aren't RBs in this league; and he'd have more broken bones than Evil Kaneival.  Tim Couch had a 64 yard run vrs the Rams as a rookie right before halftime thinking Chris Palmer was going to compliment him before Palmer tore him a new ass.  Meanwhile in Philly, Donovan McNabb was playing for an offensive minded HC and OC that allowed him the type of liberties with his feet that Baltimore has done with Lamar. All McNabb did was turn around the team with the worst record in 98 with 9 playoff appearances, 5 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB. in his 1st 10 or 11 seasons.  SOME of this is the luck of going to the right MIND/system.  It makes no sense to me if you draft anyone only to Dr Frankenstein all his gifts into something he isn't wired to do.  

How come when teams are easily getting outside of Myles Garrett off the edge - we're/he's only blaming the Coordinator and teammates?  I LOVE sacks but not at the expense of giving up contain.  We're not stopping shit with film going viral on how to beat it.  And when they lined up Clowney next to Garrett - it was the easiest TD Houston scored all year.  The good news was Tyrod pulled a hammy so the Browns could come back and win.

I've seen what this team is capable of with Baker enough to know I'm not interested in returning to the QB t-shirt culture everyone once bitched about (especially me) before Baker arrived.  It's up to the FO and coaching staff to get this stuff worked out.  As I was leading to, upgrading the WR position would be an ideal place to start.  Not many opponents are going to have trouble winning their matchups against our guys on the perimeter.  Let's hope that doesn't include the winless Lions today...

[ATOM]

baker needs to sit the rest of the year 

[mjp28]

7 minutes ago, ATOM said:

baker needs to sit the rest of the year 

How many games until the bye ?    

 

 

[tiamat63]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Agreed!  Now back to the reason I brought up the WR position - are we sure it's JUST Baker we need to upgrade asap?   And I'm impressed with how many people think Lamar Jackson is hard to stop; especially considering he wasn't exactly Josh Rosen PRE-draft.  The convenient out for all of Rosen's pre-draft fans was "bad football team - poor guy just didn't have a chance."  Sticking with such a precedent, what was the record of the team that drafted Baker?  

I've seen enough of the guy to know what he CAN do even as a wide eyed rookie entering his 1st game with a 14 point deficit and leading the Browns to victory.  Just to recap, the 0-16 team started his rookie year 0-1-1.  Still a worthless team without him on the field.  Next thing you know the team went 7-7 in the games he played; and he's setting a TD passing record for rookie QBs on a franchise with a record of 1-32-1 in the 34 games before he 1st entered the field.  In 2019, the Browns lost both starting Tackles in the opener plus the 1st backup at LT all in 1 game vrs TN.  That season became a necessary backward step  that the FO used to draft Wills and sign Conklin as priorities to the 2020 offense that won 11 regular season games + 1 playoff game where the Browns score 48 points AT PITTSBURGH.  So let's get rid of Baker so we can return to watching this franchise draft QBs the way it has done since 1999?  It's been THAT fun has it?

More math?  Have we forgotten the inventory of Offensive Coordinators here that the young QB had to learn and deprogram?  And people act like if THIS franchise just drafted Lamar Jackson he'd be in 1 piece ALLOWED to do the stuff seemingly only Baltimore was interested in letting him do as soon as they submitted their draft selection of him. Hue Jackson would have put him on a leash saying QBs aren't RBs in this league; and he'd have more broken bones than Evil Kaneival.  Tim Couch had a 64 yard run vrs the Rams as a rookie right before halftime thinking Chris Palmer was going to compliment him before Palmer tore him a new ass.  Meanwhile in Philly, Donovan McNabb was playing for an offensive minded HC and OC that allowed him the type of liberties with his feet that Baltimore has done with Lamar. All McNabb did was turn around the team with the worst record in 98 with 9 playoff appearances, 5 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB. in his 1st 10 or 11 seasons.  SOME of this is the luck of going to the right MIND/system.  It makes no sense to me if you draft anyone only to Dr Frankenstein all his gifts into something he isn't wired to do.  

How come when teams are easily getting outside of Myles Garrett off the edge - we're/he's only blaming the Coordinator and teammates?  I LOVE sacks but not at the expense of giving up contain.  We're not stopping shit with film going viral on how to beat it.  And when they lined up Clowney next to Garrett - it was the easiest TD Houston scored all year.  The good news was Tyrod pulled a hammy so the Browns could come back and win.

I've seen what this team is capable of with Baker enough to know I'm not interested in returning to the QB t-shirt culture everyone once bitched about (especially me) before Baker arrived.  It's up to the FO and coaching staff to get this stuff worked out.  As I was leading to, upgrading the WR position would be an ideal place to start.  Not many opponents are going to have trouble winning their matchups against our guys on the perimeter.  Let's hope that doesn't include the winless Lions today...

 

Generally you and I have great discussion.   But if you think what McNabb did with his feet - as a mobile passer who ran only to throw,   is ANYTHING like the stucture that the Ravens HAD* to implement with Lamar as an offensive supplement,  then we really need to sit down for a long ass chat.  

 

 

The issues many Browns fans aren't recognizing is a simple one.   The Browns have HAD some talent on these rosters in current and previous years.  The QB play was just so damn dismal that it didn't allow them to be even remotely competitive.    Until a local boy like Brian Hoyer and Young Shanahan showed that you only need a slightly-above average QB to actually win some games and allow the rest of said talent and quality coaching to take you to 8-8 (ish)    Imagine if Jim O neil isn't the defensive coordinator in 2014 and we draft Khalil Mack,  Aaron Donald or Mike Evans?  (like I wanted)   That squad would have gone to the wildcard with Brian Hoyer at QB.   

Another example would be the season before Alex Smith arrived in KC.  1 win to what...? 9-10 wins?    Not spectacular QB play, but just good enough at the most important position on the field.

 

Baker himself isn't solely responsible for the Browns turn-around so much as it an infusion of young talent and decent, NOT great, coaches.   The Bengals had playoff appearances with Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis for Christ sake.      

 

 

[ATOM]

baker did not speak to reporters after todays game

wonder why ?

[ATOM]

30 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

How many games until the bye ?    

 

 

if he is hurting that bad I dont know maybe just sit him untill after the bye

[Browns149]

I’m not a Baker hater or Baker apologist, but to me, he needs more things in his favor to succeed then most QB’S.
 

He doesn’t seem to be able to put the team on his back. I want him to be that, because, I sure don’t want the losers we have had for most of the last 22 years, but he’s not that at this point in his career

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

How many games until the bye ?    

 

Just one more loss to the Rat Birds assuming he plays...  

41 minutes ago, ATOM said:

baker did not speak to reporters after todays game

wonder why ?

Maker Bayfield...  You had another SHITTY  game. OWN IT. Be thankful it was against the crappy Lions, playing their new QB- or you would have chalked up another embarrassing loss.  

 Note to Stefanski- just stop playing the guy when he's obviously crippled.  

[VaporTrail]

I'm going to lose my mind if Baker is starting against the Ravens. 

[tiamat63]

Watching how Burrow operates from empty vs Baker is... telling.  Night and day.  

[AP1]

1 hour ago, Browns149 said:

I’m not a Baker hater or Baker apologist, but to me, he needs more things in his favor to succeed then most QB’S.
 

He doesn’t seem to be able to put the team on his back. I want him to be that, because, I sure don’t want the losers we have had for most of the last 22 years, but he’s not that at this point in his career

 

I don't want to get too far off topic. 

 

It would appear to me that the Mayfield Camp has been told or believes that the Browns FO questions whether or not he is the future Franchise QB. And if that were the case, then he would have to prove something this season.

 

If there was confidence he was, unquestionably, the Franchise QB I assume he would have started whatever surgeries, procedures and processes that need to take place so that he could come back better in 2022.

 

I only get to see the Browns' nationally broadcast games so I get my take from the Board and watch the game highlights. He has no business playing, I don't care how viable Case Keenum may or may not be. It's becoming apparent this is not their year so now it's time to finish strong and begin the necessary moves to make a run in 2022.

 

As far as his contract goes, I don't understand why he thinks putting the Browns over the barrel is beneficial. I live in Colts' country and saw firsthand how Peyton Manning's $98M contract and $90M contract handicapped the Colts, especially their OL and defense. While Peyton Manning was getting paid, Tom Brady was winning Super Bowls. In hindsight, I bet Peyton would gladly trade $20M for a couple more Super Bowls.

 

Thankfully, the Browns have solidified the OL, but it frustrates me that he thinks he's a $35M-$40M/year QB. He should tell his agent he'll take $25M/year. He should tell the Browns' FO to fill in the gaps with remaining money so a Championship Team can be built. If he wants more money, his agent needs to find some more endorsement deals or push Progressive to go the Castrol route ala John Force and make him and only him their man.

 

I want Baker to be the man because the process of finding a Franchise QB is an awfully expensive, rarely lucrative craps shoot, and most Teams get lost in the wilderness.  He's not a generational talent, but he's the best talent the Browns have had in a generation. Save the Packers, Favre to Rodgers, it's just not often that teams go from winning QB to winning QB. My greatest concern about Baker is that he'd go the route of Drew Brees and go have a second, more successful and Super Bowl-winning career elsewhere. I'm not being scared, I'm being pragmatic. 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Watching how Burrow operates from empty vs Baker is... telling.  Night and day.  

See above... the guy belongs on IR, not out there trying to lose games.... Have I mentioned several times.... He's sailing passes?  Nice INT throwing the ball 10 feet over Landry's head.  His accuracy is shot. His vision is shot...  We commented he threw the ball into triple coverage, got bailed out by a PI, and didn't see Johnson totally alone. Go post the still Tia.     See below...  

[hoorta]

The NFL.com take....  

Maker Bayfield...  has reached a new low in his NFL career. Mayfield is clearly injured, yet he insists on gutting out his multiple ailments, and Kevin Stefanski is abiding to the detriment of his offense. Mayfield was again dreadful, completing 15 of 29 passes for 176 yards, one touchdown (a short pass in the flats to Chubb) and two interceptions. Many of his incompletions were to open receivers Mayfield simply missed, the interceptions were typically ugly, and the plays in between inspired so little confidence in Cleveland's offense as it currently exists, Browns fans rained boos down on the field -- while winning the game. Gone are the days of Stefanski's sharp, balanced and unpredictable attack. In its place is an offense stuck in 5 feet of mud with a banged-up quarterback trying to pull them out of it. Folks wearing brown and orange are seriously considering a future without Mayfield, who looks nothing like the quarterback who helped Cleveland win a playoff game last year. It's tough to evaluate him because of his injuries, but it's even more difficult to understand why the Browns aren't turning to Case Keenum just to give Mayfield a break.

MHO? Guts only get you so far... And I agree with Terry Pluto- and a bunch of others- that it was f'n STUPID to play Baker against the Lions.. You want to ride him Kev? You're Captaining the Titanic this year if you do. The last two Mayfield performances could have been equaled by some no-name third string nobody....  

[Dutch Oven]

You almost at this point get the impression that Baker could die out of the field, and Stefanski would go full-out 'Weekend at Bernie's' with Baker's corpse for a full quarter before bringing in Keenum. 

[Neo]

Baker is what I want in every Browns player,  tough as nails and always in the fight.  When the fuck are people going to get off his back? Is it his fault Stefanski doesn't have a spine to pull him?

[hx214]

5 hours ago, ATOM said:

baker did not speak to reporters after todays game

wonder why ?

He was probably in the back getting an IV and laying on a stretcher

[VaporTrail]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

Baker is what I want in every Browns player,  tough as nails and always in the fight.  When the fuck are people going to get off his back? Is it his fault Stefanski doesn't have a spine to pull him?

They're both at fault. Stefanski takes most of the blame, but it's also Baker's responsibility to call his own number when he knows he is hurting the team because he can't play to his potential. Unless we manage to sign Rodgers in the offseason, Baker is getting franchise tagged.

[Dutch Oven]

“No one better say anything bad about Baker Mayfield after this game,” she (Emily Mayfield) wrote in a since-deleted Instagram post, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I don’t think I have seen toughness like this in a while. Maybe the rest our team should take the hint and get tougher.”

 

[hoorta]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

“No one better say anything bad about Baker Mayfield after this game,” she (Emily Mayfield) wrote in a since-deleted Instagram post, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I don’t think I have seen toughness like this in a while. Maybe the rest our team should take the hint and get tougher.”

 

Emily- go kiss his boo-boos and make them feel better tonight.... 

Maybe Baker should go to the Coach and say... I'm playing like shit?  (because I'm hurt) And Stef needs to take his helmet away. 

Monte Python's Black Knight without any legs.   

[jcam222]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

The NFL.com take....  

Maker Bayfield...  has reached a new low in his NFL career. Mayfield is clearly injured, yet he insists on gutting out his multiple ailments, and Kevin Stefanski is abiding to the detriment of his offense. Mayfield was again dreadful, completing 15 of 29 passes for 176 yards, one touchdown (a short pass in the flats to Chubb) and two interceptions. Many of his incompletions were to open receivers Mayfield simply missed, the interceptions were typically ugly, and the plays in between inspired so little confidence in Cleveland's offense as it currently exists, Browns fans rained boos down on the field -- while winning the game. Gone are the days of Stefanski's sharp, balanced and unpredictable attack. In its place is an offense stuck in 5 feet of mud with a banged-up quarterback trying to pull them out of it. Folks wearing brown and orange are seriously considering a future without Mayfield, who looks nothing like the quarterback who helped Cleveland win a playoff game last year. It's tough to evaluate him because of his injuries, but it's even more difficult to understand why the Browns aren't turning to Case Keenum just to give Mayfield a break.

MHO? Guts only get you so far... And I agree with Terry Pluto- and a bunch of others- that it was f'n STUPID to play Baker against the Lions.. You want to ride him Kev? You're Captaining the Titanic this year if you do. The last two Mayfield performances could have been equaled by some no-name third string nobody....  

I’m convinced Stefanski isn’t making the final call to stick with Baker in these games. I believe post game he called the decisions an organizational one. He’s the kind of guy that would say it was his if it was. 

[hoorta]

11 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

I’m convinced Stefanski isn’t making the final call to stick with Baker in these games. I believe post game he called the decisions an organizational one. He’s the kind of guy that would say it was his if it was. 

then the question becomes- why is the "organizational" group think- thinking after seeing a crippled Mayfield post back to back 50 QBR games that he's gotta play- even if it's obvious he's hurting the team?  We're not beating the Rat Birds with QB play on a college Division II level.   

[jcam222]

12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

then the question becomes- why is the "organizational" group think- thinking after seeing a crippled Mayfield post back to back 50 QBR games that he's gotta play- even if it's obvious he's hurting the team?  We're not beating the Rat Birds with QB play on a college Division II level.   

100% agree

[Canton Mike]

Tough is one thing, STUPID is another!

I never played organized football, but golfed & bowled at high levels, UNTIL I tried to "play through" a shoulder injury. The result was permanent damage & a huge, lasting decline in both sports. WHOEVER  is refusing to shut Baker down is not looking to his (and the team's) best interests OR his future in Cleveland.

Mike

 

[Westside Steve]

There are times I just hate the fans. I suppose Baker feels the same way. There's probably not a player in the league that hates not playing up to his potential as badly as he does.. There's a reason that the backup quarterback isn't starting for another team. Usually that reason is that the starter is as good or better even at 80% . At any rate these are my guys these are the guys I root for these are the guys I support. If they fall short I feel shitty just like they do. No doubt we all know fans who scream and bitch and curse their own team for every mistake. What fun can that be? Screw those people.

WSS

[tiamat63]

I suppose my issue is this - IF Baker is the leader of this team, then it underscores just why I believe there is such a dearth of leadership in this world. 

Being a leader isn't just about being fiery, toughness, vocal, etc etc.  It's about accountability and doing what is best for those in your charge.   It also means, despite how much it might suck, removing yourself from the equation to make clear decisions.  If I can't hit a throw that many NFL backups can in that moment without a high probability of a turnover, a turnover that hurts my team, then I shouldn't be out there. 

Of course this isn't easy to say to yourself.  It goes against every competitive instinct you have.  And I sympathize with that because in your heart you care, therefore you'll always feel like you give your guys the best shot of winning.  Circle back around to what I said about removing ones self from the equation.  

If Baker is concerned about booing, it's because his competitive nature and desire to be out there is so strong that it is now bordering on selfishness. If my QBs presence hurts more than it helps then I have to sit him down for an unpleasant conversation.  

I wouldn't have boo'd Baker, it's bad form.  But I would boo Stef for willingly allowing an injured player to be in that situation. 

[gumby73]

58 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

There are times I just hate the fans. I suppose Baker feels the same way. There's probably not a player in the league that hates not playing up to his potential as badly as he does.. There's a reason that the backup quarterback isn't starting for another team. Usually that reason is that the starter is as good or better even at 80% . At any rate these are my guys these are the guys I wrote for these are the guys I support. If they fall short I feel shitty just like they do. No doubt we all know fans who scream and bitch and curse their own team for every mistake. What fun can that be? Screw those people.

WSS

    👍   comes with the price of a ticket, so they say.. showing some class towards a playing injured player? cost ya nothing... Great Post Sir Westside !