Baker Mayfield

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

- You want to link PFF stats and live by them, then you can die by them as well.

 

"Dan Moore Jr. had a difficult time handling Myles Garrett on the edge, as he was beaten eight times and allowed three hurries and one sack on 36 pass-blocking snaps. He allowed pressure on 13.9% of his snaps to finish with a 0.0 pass-blocking grade, upon first review. Pittsburgh’s offensive line combined to surrender three sacks and nine pressures."

If we're winning the pressure battle with 4, sending additional bodies doesn't commensurately amount to pressure or turnovers. Anthony Walker STILL has head scratchers in coverage.  That seam throw to Freiermouth for the 3rd down? That was on him expanding in a flat zone as opposed to carrying down the seam.  But Barry knew he was limited upon signing.  Teams are finding ways to attack him.

 

- The Steelers Oline is NOT good.  When you're willing to give your rookie QB 30 touches to help create any breathing room for your QB and to help your tackles out, then that alone should answer two questions.    Are they any good? Did the Browns defense win with personnel and scheme?  Both of those appear to be a "yes".

 

- There are no excuses.  I went in on Woods for the San Diego game.  We put up 42 points and you HAVE to find a way to not let the Chargers keep pace.  Granted, health is a very real issue on both sides of the ball.     The difference between us is this - when the Browns put up 42 points and botch a game tying/winning drive, your response was "The defense should have done better".   Which is the correct response.

When the Browns hold a team to a shade over 2 TD's in our house yet still lose, your response is "Well the defense should HAVE done more".  Which lacks any and all consistency.    This is where you deservedly earn my eye-roll.    Pittsburgh was 4-13 on 3rd downs.      That same terrible Denver offense we held to 14 put up 17 on the Steelers ON THE ROAD.    STOP spouting off about Woods and the defense for one god damn week this time, please.

 

-

 

Well I’m actually living quite well by the PFF metric…

We had ONE elite guy. 

And No Pro Bowl Level player 

And No Starter Level player 

Every guy that suited up for our defense was at backup level or below including Andrew Billings 48 and change.

(Edit Billings was 47.8)

Re:The Steelers Oline.  (The interior oline)

Was it you or someone else praising that group during the game? 

[jiggins7919]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:45 PM, MDDawg said:

That ball looked high to me, Baker threw a similarly high ball to a wide open Hooper and missed a TD. Baker just hasn't played well since injuring that shoulder, is a 75% Baker better than Keenum in a game that was similar to the Bronco's on paper?

It was high and behind him. End zone view fully demonstrated this. If Baker didn't double-clutch and threw it immediately, he would have likely hit it. But in Baker fashion, he hesitates, clutches it AGAIN! throws late and high (shocker), and OBJ can't make the sensational catch. 

[Westside Steve]

This is an interesting way to look at it I think they say everything they need to say in the first third of the video. Part of that, especially in Cleveland OH, is it all of a sudden we have the two best running backs in the league has a tandem. So yes catches are going to go down. And like I said it is a team sport but I would love to see them figure this out.

WSS

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Well I’m actually living quite well by the PFF metric…

We had ONE elite guy. 

And No Pro Bowl Level player 

And No Starter Level player 

Every guy that suited up for our defense was at backup level or below including Andrew Billings 48 and change.

(Edit Billings was 47.8)

Re:The Steelers Oline.  (The interior oline)

Was it you or someone else praising that group during the game? 

I wouldn't suspect we did, which is why PFF rankings themselves have to be taken with one's own curve.  You held a back to less than his average YPC, matching his season high in carries, and he still didn't rush for 100.

You also conveniently aren't mentioning anything about the 3rd down conversion percentage.  

Every defensive metric you can find points to them not being the issue.  Teams being shut out anymore doesn't really happen unless you're that terrible. 

The Steelers aren't a good offense, but they can put together a couple drives. Which is exactly what they did and all they had to do to best our offensive output.

If we got even 75% of the offensive play from this group that we got the last time, this is a 35-15 game.  But I also realize injuries have been enemy #1 this year more than anything.  That is why I'm more measured in my assignment of "blame".

 

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

If we got even 75% of the offensive play from this group that we got the last time, this is a 35-15 game.  But I also realize injuries have been enemy #1 this year more than anything.  That is why I'm more measured in my assignment of "blame".

Careful now. Sanity will get you nowhere around here.😵

[Unsympathetic]

Here's hoping the resigning discussions with Teller are progressing.  Hance and Hudson are backups.. flashes but not consistency yet.

[SdBacker80]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I wouldn't suspect we did, which is why PFF rankings themselves have to be taken with one's own curve.  You held a back to less than his average YPC, matching his season high in carries, and he still didn't rush for 100.

You also conveniently aren't mentioning anything about the 3rd down conversion percentage.  

Every defensive metric you can find points to them not being the issue.  Teams being shut out anymore doesn't really happen unless you're that terrible. 

The Steelers aren't a good offense, but they can put together a couple drives. Which is exactly what they did and all they had to do to best our offensive output.

If we got even 75% of the offensive play from this group that we got the last time, this is a 35-15 game.  But I also realize injuries have been enemy #1 this year more than anything.  That is why I'm more measured in my assignment of "blame".

 

Opponents 3rd down percentages?

We are like 25th in the league.  We played better on 3rd down probably improved that 25th ranking.  We Gave up a few back breakers too.  There is no hiding here.  
 

The expectations coming into the game…the Steelers were young, learning and well below average up front on offensive line.  Juju is out and Ben is limited.  Ben actually should retire- a game like Sunday though gives him hope. In the middle of the game their HC makes an incredibly stupid decision against a savvy Special Teams coordinator and gets his kicker hurt in the process.  So no kicker.  They were essentially end zone or bust…but first and foremost protect the ball which they did because we can’t force a turnover to save our life (we have 5!!! All year). We forced 0 Sunday. No risks from their offense (kinda hard these days to go downfield with Ben) just run the clock and watch our offense fumble the ball around literally.  

Gameplan sound familiar?  
 

Thursday Night where we moved the ball well with limitations and won 17-14 against the Broncos.  We had our kicker though and I thought we called a much smarter game too. If we are talking points Broncos gave up 17 to us the week before…did that defense do its job? 
 

I used to cut our Defense slack in years past because they were on the field 33-35 minutes a game.  Now with our ball control offense it is 26 minutes a game. 

 

[calfoxwc]

Well, here's my opinion. Odell's Dad is out of line going public with it. Odell has, what from I gather he said himself - has played with a injury whatever for ten years. Never got it fixed. I thought early on, that Beckham was all about his brand. He played fine last year, but he's been dropping passes, etc....

   I do think that Stefanski needs let go of the playcalling. He seems to over-think it. But the line between not being predictable, and generally doing what you do best when you need to, staying on course isn't his forte.

  The Giants were happy to get rid of OBJ. OBJ's happiness to play with his good friend Landry was good for one year. Now the old OBJ is back. OBJ not happy. OBJ this, OBJ that. center of attention.

Interesting to note:

https://empirewritesback.com/2018/12/02/new-york-giants-get-rid-odell-backham-jr/

“For once, can I come out of one game one time and not have there be a Beckham story of some type we worry about and everybody in this town worrying about whether he’s happy, whether he is being utilized right, whether he is content with the game plan, whether he is on board, whether the coaches are connecting with him? I am so sick of this Beckham garbage. It is so overrated, and it is such absolute nonsense, and the media’s caught it so badly.”

Francesa added:

“The preoccupation with these prima donna wide receivers in this new age of passing is so overrated it is unbelievable. Enough! The best thing that could happen is they kick his rear end out of town and start over. Has it worked? He played in one playoff game, and he stunk. I am so sick of hearing about him it’s ridiculous.Everything’s a problem,. Since the Giants started kissing his rear end, they haven’t won a game! Enough already!”

************************************************

    now, about the wr crew. I love Landry's play. And Peoples-Jones is probably a #1 for the Browns next year, Landry #2. As much as I always thought Higgins would come on, he hasn't. He isn't that fast, and only gets open once in a while when he catches defends by surprise. They need a dynamic number one. Taller, faster, catches everything, gets yac. And in a weak DL class in the next draft, I'd be looking at a DL or WR in the first round.

 

[calfoxwc]

Addition to last post:

What I might do? It's way too early, but, I have time, I'm retired. lol

FIRST ROUND:

DL. Jordan Davis. 6'6", 340. Georgia.

Not some fat guy - he played forward on the basketball team. Scary athletic tough dude and at that size?

It's ridiculously early, but just an early guess.

SECOND ROUND:

Jalen Tolbert, Southern Alabama. 6'3", 195.

who knows.

[hoorta]

Nice takes Cal- when you stick to football...   My question is- will Landry be happy if his pal OBJ isn't around? Stay tuned.  He's certainly going to have to restructure. 

If you look at Beckham's stats- other than one outlier, they've decreased every year since he was a rookie.  Certainly not earning his #1 WR salary.  I mean really- on NFL.com's stats he's buried somewhere on page 5 along with guys you never heard of. One miracle catch does not a career make. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeckOd00.htm

Hmm... the thought occurred to me... Are the Browns\Berry working out a waived\injured settlement with Beckham?  

 

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Opponents 3rd down percentages?

We are like 25th in the league.  We played better on 3rd down probably improved that 25th ranking.  We Gave up a few back breakers too.  There is no hiding here.  
 

The expectations coming into the game…the Steelers were young, learning and well below average up front on offensive line.  Juju is out and Ben is limited.  Ben actually should retire- a game like Sunday though gives him hope. In the middle of the game their HC makes an incredibly stupid decision against a savvy Special Teams coordinator and gets his kicker hurt in the process.  So no kicker.  They were essentially end zone or bust…but first and foremost protect the ball which they did because we can’t force a turnover to save our life (we have 5!!! All year). We forced 0 Sunday. No risks from their offense (kinda hard these days to go downfield with Ben) just run the clock and watch our offense fumble the ball around literally.  

Gameplan sound familiar?  
 

Thursday Night where we moved the ball well with limitations and won 17-14 against the Broncos.  We had our kicker though and I thought we called a much smarter game too. If we are talking points Broncos gave up 17 to us the week before…did that defense do its job? 
 

I used to cut our Defense slack in years past because they were on the field 33-35 minutes a game.  Now with our ball control offense it is 26 minutes a game. 

 

To answer your question - yes, the Broncos defense did its job.  Which is emphasized by the fact they continue their QB hunt. 

 

The 3rd down percentage, I believe 4 for 13, was specifically for the Steelers game.   It was a one score match, just like the week before. Only difference is we had a fortunate int.  Better team, slightly better QB. One turnover would have made this game... that turnover was the Browns. 

[tiamat63]

I need some help, I was skimming the board and saw something in one of the threads about Baker seeing things. Missing a boundary safety in his passing commentary?   

The terrible thing about how my mind works is that I remember that exact commentary on some of the play breakdowns I did.  It would go a long way to tying loose ends.

A little help and link from anyone on where it was posted would be hot.

[nickers]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Nice takes Cal- when you stick to football...   My question is- will Landry be happy if his pal OBJ isn't around? Stay tuned.  He's certainly going to have to restructure. 

If you look at Beckham's stats- other than one outlier, they've decreased every year since he was a rookie.  Certainly not earning his #1 WR salary.  I mean really- on NFL.com's stats he's buried somewhere on page 5 along with guys you never heard of. One miracle catch does not a career make. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeckOd00.htm

Hmm... the thought occurred to me... Are the Browns\Berry working out a waived\injured settlement with Beckham?  

 

He's hot garbage... Any team that picks him up will find that out.. Or he's purposely playing his way out of Cleveland , which would not surprise me 1 iota...

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

To answer your question - yes, the Broncos defense did its job.  Which is emphasized by the fact they continue their QB hunt. 

 

The 3rd down percentage, I believe 4 for 13, was specifically for the Steelers game.   It was a one score match, just like the week before. Only difference is we had a fortunate int.  Better team, slightly better QB. One turnover would have made this game... that turnover was the Browns. 

Drew Lock and Teddy B are the reason the Broncos continue their QB hunt.  

Sadly I don’t think we are too far behind on the same hunt.  

[tiamat63]

18 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Drew Lock and Teddy B are the reason the Broncos continue their QB hunt.  

Sadly I don’t think we are too far behind on the same hunt.  

"too far behind" might be a stretch.   I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.

Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season.   Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths.   Things that only time can help to illuminate.   It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play.  I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work. 

[Neo]

On 11/2/2021 at 4:33 PM, Gorka said:

HAHAHA.  Because his first carry was a 14yd run? Chubb tied his all time low in ypc this year in that game.

The Steelers stuffed him which put pressure on Mayfield to try and get the job done.

No. Because he had a good first drive, D'Eanest had over 140 the week before, and the Browns have the #1 rushing attack in the NFL.

Chubb is a beast,  D'Ernest had the hot hand. It's up to the coach to get the most out of the pieces he has and Steph has a LOT of pieces. A lot of our backups on offense could be starters on  a lor of other teams.

It really not that difficult, sometimes I think Steph out coaches himself sometimes. 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

"too far behind" might be a stretch.   I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.

Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season.   Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths.   Things that only time can help to illuminate.   It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play.  I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work. 

That wasn't me Tia.  though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him.  That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either.  The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...   

[calfoxwc]

24 minutes ago, hoorta said:

That wasn't me Tia.  though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him.  That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either.  The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...   

don't think so. that last game, barfsonhislegger missed an absolutely wide open wr/te in the end zone. Brady has had one of the greatest get open, rumble yac te's in NFL history. Gronk went to the Bucs with him. I wish the Browns had a Chris Godwin. He was a star wr out of Penn State. Excellent get open, good size, excellent yac, fast.... the Browns don't. And Brady has Mike Evans, 6'5", 235, first round draft pick some years ago. and Antonio Brown, another dynamic wr. and Gronk.

   Sorry, but Baker has obj and Landry playing injured, Peoples-Jones was hurt didn't play, HIggins who isn't fast or dynamic. and how long has Brady been in the league? and how long has Baker been in the league? and the Browns have had both OT tackle starters out of the play or playing hurt.

   You get Baker a Jalen Tolbert or two next year, and watch how Baker finds the OPEN wr.

 

[tiamat63]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

That wasn't me Tia.  though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him.  That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either.  The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...   

There's a few screenshots I have from the Cardinals game. I'll post them later if I have time. 

The first is felton on 3 and hitch underneath with the clear out by OBJ.  Baker never saw it for a cheap 6 yards - 2nd & 4.  Pretty sure he took a sack that play. 

2 more, Odell was open on a drag and settle which would have made it 1st and goal. The other was a similar design but levels double under, except instead of OBJ it was DPJ that Baker missed. 

Like I've said, Odell isn't a huge help, but dismissing him from the team doesn't magically fix the passing game either. This offense needs a WR of high caliber to fill that role, Odell or otherwise.  

[Zombo]

Is it me, or did our tackle get beat like a drum, and the Charger will get to Baker's arm before could release it to ODB?

This exercise is dumb, because you have to see what Baker sees and you have to feel the pass rush.

Clearly our tackle got beat on a speed rush and the play got blown up.

I don't even know what play this is, but I can tell you it's not going to end well unless Baker flushes ... no time to throw.

Z

[tiamat63]

Without watching that play 

- Baker is 7 years deep.  So 5 or 7 step drop. 

- the position of the tackle and edge looks like Bosa was carried upfield, finally wrapped back around like what normally happens and was working back towards Baker. 

- unreal room for Baker to step up and out. Something that benefits all QB's, but especially ones that are 6'1.

- looks like 3 deep, 3 under given the 5 man pressure. You can call it 3 fire or 3 sky. 

 

That's an educated guess.  But since I have gamepass and coach film I'll check it out later. I'm leaving work early and going to be just cramming football tape later. So if anyone wants to join and get the answers to the play above in real time - I'll be on TBB discord. 

[bjh2130]

22 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Is it me, or did our tackle get beat like a drum, and the Charger will get to Baker's arm before could release it to ODB?

This exercise is dumb, because you have to see what Baker sees and you have to feel the pass rush.

Clearly our tackle got beat on a speed rush and the play got blown up.

I don't even know what play this is, but I can tell you it's not going to end well unless Baker flushes ... no time to throw.

Z

No this is the play the baker forced it down field to a covered higgins about 15 yards farther downfield than obj when all we needed was a first down or two to win the game.  The following play was the 3rd and 10 draw play

[Zombo]

1 minute ago, bjh2130 said:

No this is the play the baker forced it down field to a covered higgins about 15 yards farther downfield than obj when all we needed was a first down or two to win the game.  The following play was the 3rd and 8 draw play

So then he must have flushed out of the pocket and threw it to Higgins ... who was interefered with and it wasn't called if I recall correctly.

Z

[bjh2130]

Just now, Zombo said:

So then he must have flushed out of the pocket and threw it to Higgins ... who was interefered with and it wasn't called if I recall correctly.

Z

No he pretty much throws it right as that picture is shown and I don't believe it was pass interference. The guy made contact right about the same time the ball hit the defender in the back but there was a shitty p.i. or two in that game so I could see where would say this should have been p.i. also. Also obj was open before this picture was taken also. The corner bailed immediately.

[Zombo]

11 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

No he pretty much throws it right as that picture is shown and I don't believe it was pass interference. The guy made contact right about the same time the ball hit the defender in the back but there was a shitty p.i. or two in that game so I could see where would say this should have been p.i. also. Also obj was open before this picture was taken also. The corner bailed immediately.

OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.

Z

[Unsympathetic]

Obviously the reason Baker is not elite is because he believes in modern medicine.

He needs to come up with his own version of The TB12 Method or Rodgers "I'm Immunized" [history of power crystals, grew up on a llama farm, his fiance eats clay regularly]...

[VaporTrail]

20 minutes ago, Zombo said:

OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.

Z

Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.

[Unsympathetic]

12 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.

As opposed, of course, to your takes that are neither correct nor entertaining, right?

Zombo will improve the board's conversations when he IP-bans you.

[VaporTrail]

8 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

As opposed, of course, to your takes that are neither correct nor entertaining, right?

Zombo will improve the board's conversations when he IP-bans you.

As opposed to the "correct take" of none of this being Baker's fault? Right. 

[Browns fan 1977]

The entire team is playing poorly right now and on both sides of the ball, Not all on Baker not all on OBJ, You can show a video of OBJ being open and not getting the ball, You can see a video of OBJ have the ball bounce off his hands and hit the ground.