Unsympathetic Posted October 13, 2021 Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 On 10/13/2021 at 3:05 AM, Vagitron said: I have zero tolerance for hateful bs I agree - Gruden's actions are unforgivable. He's never actually been a leader in any way - and Keyshawn Johnson realized that immediately. On 10/13/2021 at 2:59 AM, Vagitron said: I will respond to that tomorrow, drove into the burgh today on the later side only to be met with some weird ass shut down on 76 east. Tractor trailers in panic mode all over the damn place because there was no mention of a shut down. I’m the opposite of wired right now. Tired and grunpy! All I know is expresso, plus preworkout doesn’t sound like a great mix. Lol Spoiler alert- terrible idea. I'm usually very calm and collected. Yesterday was absolutely wired. 0/5 stars... would not recommend. If someone thinks there were 650,000 emails and only Gruden was saying bad things? I got some ocean front property in Montana to sell you The propaganda technique of revealing a partial truth to protect the most damaging facts is called a "Limited Hangout." The public is usually so intrigued by the new information [the half-truth] that it never thinks to pursue the matter further. Google that to find some of the historical examples - if you're not careful, you might learn something new from the internets! On 10/13/2021 at 8:54 AM, Browns149 said: If someone thinks there were 650,000 emails and only Gruden was saying bad things? I got some ocean front property in Montana to sell you ^^^^This. If it stops with Gruden…I have to assume this was part of a witch hunt. Keep in mind this investigation started with an Owner and Team long ago I want full disclosure now. The NFL mentioned they aren’t releasing any emails but that just makes it look like they are protecting some other folks and some horrible things could come out. On 10/13/2021 at 8:35 AM, Unsympathetic said: I agree - Gruden's actions are unforgivable. He's never actually been a leader in any way - and Keyshawn Johnson realized that immediately. Keyshawn the who? 19 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: ^^^^This. If it stops with Gruden…I have to assume this was part of a witch hunt. Keep in mind this investigation started with an Owner and Team long ago I want full disclosure now. The NFL mentioned they aren’t releasing any emails but that just makes it look like they are protecting some other folks and some horrible things could come out. It makes you think what kind of stuff goes there, if they're investigating 650,000 emails and the first fallout guy is Gruden, who signed a 10 year contract with one of the oldest families in the NFL. Usually the first one is the easiest to go down, and maybe they're protecting bigger names... Me reading this thread: Jon Grudens name was removed from Tampa Bays ring of honor. When are the Browns gonna remove Jim Brown from the Cleveland Browns ring of honor? They should remove his statue from First Energy as well. The hypocrisy and double standards are glaring here. But for all Brown's good deeds and athletic prowess, there appears to be a dark side to him as well. He has been frequently accused of violent crimes, primarily toward women. An 18-year-old accused Brown of forcing her to have sex after giving her whisky, but a jury found him innocent of assault and battery in the 10-day trial in 1965. He was accused of throwing his girlfriend from a balcony in 1968, but when the 22-year-old woman refused to name Brown as her assailant, the charge of assault with intent to murder was dropped. He was fined $300 for resisting a deputy. Brown was acquitted of assaulting a man after a traffic accident in 1969. He was fined $500 and spent a day in jail after beating up a golfing partner in 1978. He was charged with rape, sexual battery and assault in 1985, but the charges were dropped when the 33-year-old woman gave inconsistent testimony. The next year, he was arrested for allegedly beating his fiancée after accusing her of flirting. He spent three hours in jail, but three days later the 21-year-old woman said she didn't want to prosecute. In October 1999, Brown was convicted in Los Angeles of smashing the window of his 25-year-old wife Monique's car, but was acquitted of making terrorist threats against her. The judge sentenced him to three years' probation, stripped him of his driver's license for a year, fined him $1,700 to be paid to a battered woman's shelter and a domestic abuse fund, and ordered him to attend special counseling for domestic batterers. When Brown refused counseling, he was given a six-month sentence. He was released from jail in Ventura County (California) in July 2002 after serving less than four months. Debra Clark, 22, locked herself in a room of the house and called police at 4:40 a.m. When officers arrived, she met them in front of the house, armed with a gun. Police Sgt. John Zrofsky said the 5-foot-1-inch Clark showed signs of a beating and was taken for photographs before being given medical treatment. From a 1986 Sport magazine profile of Brown, republished on Deadspin in 2014: According to Clark, Brown had been drinking and accused her of having paid too much attention to male patrons at the Sports Connection earlier that day. She said Brown had pummeled and kicked her in a jealous rage. Clark, who wound up with a scratch under one eye, a bruised arm, and a possible cracked rib, identified herself as Brown’s fiancée and said they had planned to be married the following day, her birthday. “I have also slapped other women,” he wrote. “And I never should have, and I never should have slapped Eva, no matter how crazy we were at the time. I don’t think any man should slap a woman. In a perfect world, I don’t think any man should slap anyone. . . . I don’t start fights, but sometimes I don’t walk away from them. It hasn’t happened in a long time, but it’s happened, and I regret those times. I should have been more in control of myself, stronger, more adult.” that is why I never respected jim brown - at all. My Browns hero rb was Leroy Kelly. for a LOT of reasons. Gorka's use of "ignoratio elenchi" doesn't respond to anything about Gruden's situation.. because there is no defense to Gruden. Example #23,156 -- Conservatives have nothing to offer in any situation other than attempting to change the subject and appealing to emotions. 11 hours ago, Unsympathetic said: Gorka's use of "ignoratio elenchi" doesn't respond to anything about Gruden's situation.. because there is no defense to Gruden. Example #23,156 -- Conservatives have nothing to offer in any situation other than attempting to change the subject and appealing to emotions. Oh fuck you. Conservative #2 chimes in with no defense to Gruden other than changing the subject. I'm not shocked - because I don't expect any better from you. This isn't your personal safe space, snowflake. Winning arguments over conservatives does get tiring - mainly because it's so easy. And because I'm using words they don't understand. 11 hours ago, Unsympathetic said: Gorka's use of "ignoratio elenchi" doesn't respond to anything about Gruden's situation.. because there is no defense to Gruden. Example #23,156 -- Conservatives have nothing to offer in any situation other than attempting to change the subject and appealing to emotions. Why the fuck should I? Maybe I enjoy keeping your kind in suspense. Are there not enough responses about Gruden in this thread to satisfy you? My my, how easily you libtards become triggered when you get your nose rubbed in your own hypocrisy and double standards. 9 hours ago, Gorka said: Why the fuck should I? Maybe I enjoy keeping your kind in suspense. Are there not enough responses about Gruden in this thread to satisfy you? My my, how easily you libtards become triggered when you get your nose rubbed in your own hypocrisy and double standards. Aww, did baby conservative boy get his precious feelings hurt? You responded to a comment accusing you of doing nothing but appealing to emotions with... 3 lines of emotions. Thanks for proving me right. By the way, keep using the word "fuck" while not being triggered, it's cute. Some good and thoughtful posts from some of you on the Gruden thing. While not specifically about him, an observation l’ve had is that we seem to be living in a world where we are very uncomfortable with ourselves and each other, which causes a lot of uncertainty in our interactions. If you think about those you are closest to, it’s acceptable and even a joy to tease them about the stuff that’s different about them. There’s a comfort level that allows that to happen and it’s assumed no ill will is intended, and it’s just as fun to get teased in return by them. And it’s similar between groups of people. Without the comfort level interactions can be rigid. Fear of saying the wrong thing or reacting incorrectly becomes a big concern. Questions never get asked and insight never gets shared because fear gets in the way. A fair amount of people aren’t driven by some heavy moral compass, they just want to fit in but don’t always know how to do that, and we’ve created an environment where certain mistakes in that regard are met with shame. I was involved in high school sports in the 90s, and cracking fag jokes was the order of the day. I can’t deny l participated, but l’m sure most locker rooms were the same way. I’m reasonably certain guys like Gruden came up in a similar environment. It doesn’t make anything more acceptable, but it may show that he missed a beat or two of the evolution around him. There was a story a couple months’ back about Jack Morris, a Detroit Tigers announcer, paying a compliment to Shohei Ohtani, but he did it in a mocked Asian accent, and he got suspended for it. Impersonations are funny to me when done well. I didn’t hear his for myself, but whether done well or not the environment we’ve created has made this unacceptable behavior. Humor and our degree of comfort with one another is what suffers, and that part of it is a shame. 9 hours ago, Gorka said: Why the fuck should I? Maybe I enjoy keeping your kind in suspense. Are there not enough responses about Gruden in this thread to satisfy you? My my, how easily you libtards become triggered when you get your nose rubbed in your own hypocrisy and double standards. I'll take off my Moderator Hat for one response.... Hey MAGA tard. One insult deserves another. Sure, direct from that shit of the Reich Wing over on the poli board... Doubtless Gruden would still be employed if he was the right color. Them Rappahs strutting their stuff at the SB halftime show? I agree there's the NFL Fritz Pollard Hypocrisy. FWIW, Gruden's sins are what- 10 years old? And if they took Jim Brown's statue and tossed it in Lake Erie- (MHO- so what?) well that's political correctness for ya. Lets get rid of Columbus Day, and forget about Saint Junipero Serra. BTW- Custer had it coming to him trying to displace Native Americans from their rightful lands. Guardians? Give me Rocket Racoon for the new mascot. Go back to your Forum of Delusion guy. Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero Source: Jon Gruden just informed his staff that he plans to resign as #Raiders coach. 9:01 PM · Oct 11, 2021· Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter Raiders owner Mark Davis arrived at the team’s facility a couple of hours ago and went to find Jon Gruden, per source. The two men met. And Gruden no longer will be the Raiders’ head coach. 9:08 PM · Oct 11, 2021· On 10/11/2021 at 9:09 PM, gumby73 said: Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero Source: Jon Gruden just informed his staff that he plans to resign as #Raiders coach. 9:01 PM · Oct 11, 2021· Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter Raiders owner Mark Davis arrived at the team’s facility a couple of hours ago and went to find Jon Gruden, per source. The two men met. And Gruden no longer will be the Raiders’ head coach. 9:08 PM · Oct 11, 2021· Moral of the story. Be very careful what you put in writing or say in this day and age of political correctness. He can have a very comfortable retirement in obscurity after the 10s of millions he's already made coaching and commentating. On 10/11/2021 at 9:09 PM, gumby73 said: Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero Source: Jon Gruden just informed his staff that he plans to resign as #Raiders coach. 9:01 PM · Oct 11, 2021· Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter Raiders owner Mark Davis arrived at the team’s facility a couple of hours ago and went to find Jon Gruden, per source. The two men met. And Gruden no longer will be the Raiders’ head coach. 9:08 PM · Oct 11, 2021· The Woke police got him. On 10/12/2021 at 2:47 PM, Kvoethe said: Oh yeah I'll give that ★★★★ ! On 10/12/2021 at 2:47 PM, Kvoethe said: Mark madden is a fucking moron and trying to use rap lyrics as justification for saying someone has “lips like a Michelin tire factory” ain’t quite the same. Ten years ago or not those emails are pretty heinous and he was certainly a large part of the nfl at that juncture. Moral of the story, if you want to say shit like this maybe only say it around your closest friends, people you can trust and you sure as shit don’t put it in an email. It’s also has zero to do with political correctness. You are either racist and homophobic or you aren’t. It’s pretty black and white. I’m not at all surprised madden typed that out. On 10/12/2021 at 3:20 PM, Vagitron said: Mark madden is a fucking moron and trying to use rap lyrics as justification for saying someone has “lips like a Michelin tire factory” ain’t quite the same. Ten years ago or not those emails are pretty heinous and he was certainly a large part of the nfl at that juncture. Moral of the story, if you want to say shit like this maybe only say it around your closest friends, people you can trust and you sure as shit don’t put it in an email. It’s also has zero to do with political correctness. You are either racist and homophobic or you aren’t. It’s pretty black and white. I’m not at all surprised madden typed that out. Maybe if he would done a tick tok or rapped it he would be fine. Some of those rappers have violent histories..just sayin. Look..there has to be a common sense take on this...times change and people change..10yrs?? Even a bankruptcy is off your record in 7. And nothing will change...Goodell got his pound of flesh.. remember kapernick? What did all that outrage get? Still unemployed...no one cares.. He was wrong..no question. Im sure there are other coaches out there..but goodell didnt like gruden. On 10/12/2021 at 3:20 PM, Vagitron said: Mark madden is a fucking moron and trying to use rap lyrics as justification for saying someone has “lips like a Michelin tire factory” ain’t quite the same. As much as I don't want to agree with Mark Madden, he actually makes a point. These are entertainers who made a living off of misogynic styles and homophobia in their lyrics. And I fucking love the half-time show line up. So I say we all have a morbid laugh and let bygones be... nah, just can't though, can we? On 10/12/2021 at 4:17 PM, tiamat63 said: As much as I don't want to agree with Mark Madden, he actually makes a point. These are entertainers who made a living off of misogynic styles and homophobia in their lyrics. And I fucking love the half-time show line up. So I say we all have a morbid laugh and let bygones be... nah, just can't though, can we? You can’t compare the two. People consume their music knowing what they are getting into. Gruden was a professional football coach, expected to lead men, most of which are black. He was also talking about specific people in this case at least one individual who is part of the players association. One can certainly argue that coaches are held to a far higher standard than rappers who at the end of the day make or lose money based on their lyrics. Mark madden rarely has a point. He’s a shit stirrer and has always been one. Gruden fucked up, lost his job and will never work in professional football again most likely. On 10/12/2021 at 4:40 PM, Vagitron said: You can’t compare the two. People consume their music knowing what they are getting into The NFL is hosting these acts on their platform. Therefore, they endorse the acts and ALL that comes with it. Fair or not. Again, I generally believe Mark Madden to be a clown. But he has a (small) point. On 10/12/2021 at 4:51 PM, tiamat63 said: The NFL is hosting these acts on their platform. Therefore, they endorse the acts and ALL that comes with it. Fair or not. Again, I generally believe Mark Madden to be a clown. But he has a (small) point. Did the nfl fire Gruden? The nfl didn’t do a damn thing to gruden. He resigned because he was going to get fired. If the NFL said Mark (Davis), you have to fire Jon then maybe, just maybe mark madden would have a leg to stand on and even then it’s a damn reach. Dr. Dre isn’t rapping about the lips on a players association employee and he certainly isn’t comparing them to the tires at a tire factory. Rich old white men controlling black athletes....nothing will change. Accountability is for everyone....cancel culture is target specific On 10/12/2021 at 4:40 PM, Vagitron said: You can’t compare the two. People consume their music knowing what they are getting into. Gruden was a professional football coach, expected to lead men, most of which are black. He was also talking about specific people in this case at least one individual who is part of the players association. One can certainly argue that coaches are held to a far higher standard than rappers who at the end of the day make or lose money based on their lyrics. Mark madden rarely has a point. He’s a shit stirrer and has always been one. Gruden fucked up, lost his job and will never work in professional football again most likely. Cant compare a know woman abuser..(dre) to what?? Eminem made a living off gay slurs.. On 10/12/2021 at 4:53 PM, Vagitron said: Did the nfl fire Gruden? The nfl didn’t do a damn thing to gruden. He resigned because he was going to get fired. If the NFL said Mark (Davis), you have to fire Jon then maybe, just maybe mark madden would have a leg to stand on and even then it’s a damn reach. Dr. Dre isn’t rapping about the lips on a players association employee and he certainly isn’t comparing them to the tires at a tire factory. I won't pretend that if there was no resignation that The Shield wouldn't apply pressure. And you're conveniently ignoring the misogyny and homophobia that you can parallel Gruden --> halftime act. If we're going to talk about these issue, then we have to carry on with a sense of consistency. Richie Incognito is still in the league. Riley Cooper stayed in for a few years. I'm not supporting Gruden or attempting to dismiss what the man said. Only that if we expect to keep the NFL and it's subsequent images (teams) free of certain prejudices , then there has to be a conversation which includes a great deal of nuance. For fuck sake, look at the bat signal this topic has brought up. It's raised posters from the dungeon of the poli-board who have literally nothing else to offer football wise. On 10/12/2021 at 5:21 PM, tiamat63 said: I won't pretend that if there was no resignation that The Shield wouldn't apply pressure. And you're conveniently ignoring the misogyny and homophobia that you can parallel Gruden --> halftime act. If we're going to talk about these issue, then we have to carry on with a sense of consistency. Richie Incognito is still in the league. Riley Cooper stayed in for a few years. I'm not supporting Gruden or attempting to dismiss what the man said. Only that if we expect to keep the NFL and it's subsequent images (teams) free of certain prejudices , then there has to be a conversation which includes a great deal of nuance. For fuck sake, look at the bat signal this topic has brought up. It's raised posters from the dungeon of the poli-board who have literally nothing else to offer football wise. How dare you, tia... Some of those "posters from the dungeon of the poli-board" are real, die-hard browns fans. On 10/12/2021 at 5:38 PM, Dutch Oven said: How dare you, tia... Some of those "posters from the dungeon of the poli-board" are real, die-hard browns fans. All 2 of them. On 10/12/2021 at 5:21 PM, tiamat63 said: I won't pretend that if there was no resignation that The Shield wouldn't apply pressure. And you're conveniently ignoring the misogyny and homophobia that you can parallel Gruden --> halftime act. If we're going to talk about these issue, then we have to carry on with a sense of consistency. Richie Incognito is still in the league. Riley Cooper stayed in for a few years. I'm not supporting Gruden or attempting to dismiss what the man said. Only that if we expect to keep the NFL and it's subsequent images (teams) free of certain prejudices , then there has to be a conversation which includes a great deal of nuance. For fuck sake, look at the bat signal this topic has brought up. It's raised posters from the dungeon of the poli-board who have literally nothing else to offer football wise. Lol @ the poli board reference. It also brought those people here for a reason. Racism. I’m still trying to understand why you are drawing the parallel between rappers and coaches. A lot of those rappers rap on life experience. I’m readily aware of the things that exist in those lyrics and for me it’s beside the point. One guy is paid to coach men and the others get paid to rap and people purchase their music knowing those lyrics exist. It’s an art form in the same way stand up comedy is and you get to choose if you listen to it or not. You can’t have a coach saying the things gruden said but I’m not going to get it twisted either. It’s a slippery slope but gruden deserved to lose his job. I don’t recall the circumstances of Richie and Riley and I’m too busy to look them up but Gruden moronically left an undeniable paper trail. He’s stupid and if he’s blatant with his feelings too one can assume the recipients of these messages probably share similar feelings. On 10/12/2021 at 6:01 PM, Vagitron said: Lol @ the poli board reference. It also brought those people here for a reason. Racism. I’m still trying to understand why you are drawing the parallel between rappers and coaches. A lot of those rappers rap on life experience. I’m readily aware of the things that exist in those lyrics and for me it’s beside the point. One guy is paid to coach men and the others get paid to rap and people purchase their music knowing those lyrics exist. It’s an art form in the same way stand up comedy is and you get to choose if you listen to it or not. You can’t have a coach saying the things gruden said but I’m not going to get it twisted either. It’s a slippery slope but gruden deserved to lose his job. You're not understanding my point. If the NFL and it's proxies (teams) feel Gruden was racist, sexist (misogynic) and homophobic, they're endorsing a half-time show with performers who have openly checked 2 of those 3 boxes for 25+ years. THAT is my issue. If there's going to be outrage, then let's make sure we keep it consistent. On 10/12/2021 at 6:16 PM, tiamat63 said: You're not understanding my point. If the NFL and it's proxies (teams) feel Gruden was racist, sexist (misogynic) and homophobic, they're endorsing a half-time show with performers who have openly checked 2 of those 3 boxes for 25+ years. THAT is my issue. If there's going to be outrage, then let's make sure we keep it consistent. I know the point you are trying to make and I just don’t agree. The nfl didn’t fire gruden, he created his own nightmare and lost his job. If the nfl forced his firing you’d have a point. I said the same above somewhere. On 10/12/2021 at 6:20 PM, Vagitron said: I know the point you are trying to make and I just don’t agree. The nfl didn’t fire gruden, he created his own nightmare and lost his job. If the nfl forced his firing you’d have a point. I said the same above somewhere. And I'm telling you, if you believe The Shield wouldn't be putting pressure on a high-profile team and ownership, with a shiny new stadium, then you need to address how naïve you're being. My comments are also directed at fans or any of the like who feel a sense of outrage about these comments. If you wish to remain consistent, turn off the god damn superbowl. Because you're sponsoring a history of homophobia and sexism. I know, I grew up with that music. Loved it then and got all holy hell from my parents for listening to it. I on the other hand laughed at Gruden, don't care if he wouldn't have been fired and will be watching the halftime show. Consistency... On 10/12/2021 at 6:16 PM, tiamat63 said: You're not understanding my point. If the NFL and it's proxies (teams) feel Gruden was racist, sexist (misogynic) and homophobic, they're endorsing a half-time show with performers who have openly checked 2 of those 3 boxes for 25+ years. THAT is my issue. If there's going to be outrage, then let's make sure we keep it consistent. Agree here. So we find someone completely non offensive with their act/lyrics after running it by an independent peer group and dig up all emails over the past 10 years and do character reference checks to make sure they aren’t racists, sexist, homophobic or some criminal offender. On 10/12/2021 at 6:25 PM, tiamat63 said: And I'm telling you, if you believe The Shield wouldn't be putting pressure on a high-profile team and ownership, with a shiny new stadium, then you need to address how naïve you're being. My comments are also directed at fans or any of the like who feel a sense of outrage about these comments. If you wish to remain consistent, turn off the god damn superbowl. Because you're sponsoring a history of homophobia and sexism. I know, I grew up with that music. Loved it then and got all holy hell from my parents for listening to it. I on the other hand laughed at Gruden, don't care if he wouldn't have been fired and will be watching the halftime show. Consistency... Bro the minute those emails went public he was done whether the league pressured him or not. You don’t survive that pr nightmare which is why kaepernick never saw the field again even though he should have. It’s a good ole boys club as already mentioned. The league sure as shit isn’t beyond reproach but it doesn’t save gruden and for me it’s irrelevant to the half time show. Their rap lyrics aren’t directed at one person or a group of named individuals and the homophobia etc is restricted to the use of specific slurs that were so overused they became a part of the general vernacular right or wrong. It’s not like the rappers were like oh “I’m gonna get the gays with this one!” Or whatever derogatory term directed at women. It’s reaching for me and I’m haaaaaaard left politically. Either way it’s whatever to me, I don’t say homophobic shit, I’m not racist and I’m not anti woman. If I were as a business owner you can bet your ass I’m not creating a paper trail. Gruden was stupid and he’s paying for it. It is what it is. On 10/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, SdBacker80 said: Agree here. So we find someone completely non offensive with their act/lyrics after running it by an independent peer group and dig up all emails over the past 10 years and do character reference checks to make sure they aren’t racists, sexist, homophobic or some criminal offender. And preferably from Cali. Deftones it is... wait, nevermind. WAY too much sex and violence in the lyrics. I'd still be cool with that. I also think cancel culture is out of control BUT do believe there are times it’s necessary. I defend Dave Chapelle and people love coming for him, they also love ignoring the context provided. It is what it is, fuck gruden for saying it. He suffered the consequences and we move on. 🤷🏻♂️ On 10/12/2021 at 6:31 PM, Vagitron said: -Bro the minute those emails went public he was done whether the league pressured him or not. You don’t survive that pr nightmare which is why kaepernick never saw the field again even though he should have. It’s a good ole boys club as already mentioned. - Their rap lyrics aren’t directed at one person or a group of named individuals and the homophobia etc is restricted to the use of specific slurs that were so overused they became a part of the general vernacular right or wrong. It’s not like the rappers were like oh “I’m gonna get the gays with this one!” Or whatever derogatory term directed at women. It’s reaching for me and I’m haaaaaaard left politically. Either way it’s whatever to me, I don’t say homophobic shit, I’m not racist and I’m not anti woman. If I were as a business owner you can bet your ass I’m not creating a paper trail. Gruden was stupid and he’s paying for it. It is what it is. -I just gave you examples of Incognito and Riley Cooper, the latter dropping a hard R on tape and making it a few years until he declined. -Kaepernick never saw the field again for a combination of reasons. His turnover prone play when he didn't play in a button-downed offense, his salary demands, the media headache it would have induced and the pig socks. It was a chemical cocktail of nonsense and AFTER Trump was elected, Old boy was all "yeah, I see progress, I'm willing to not take a knee now". I'm cool with Kaep, I have zero issue with his stances or way he went about his demonstrations. But he fucking sold out with those comments right there because he wanted back in the league. When the NFL rejected him, he went back to his more radical demeanor. - The lyrics were meant to shock and offend whom, and anyone a party to who they were a party too. That was literally HALF the point of Em was he young. Are you not old enough to remember the protests outside of his shows and across the country? Shit, Fox news probably had more air time about him and Marilyn Manson then Geraldo Rivera ever got. - We have all, included my damn self, said some VERY questionable shit. I was joking with a few female friends of mine who have known me as far back as elementary, there are few girls who could accuse me of some heinous shit and I would literally not be able to defend myself. Not because I did any of that sort of thing, but because there's one parts modern accountability, and one parts en' vogue. It's "cool" to call out that sort of thing, perceived or real. Not racist though, I can actually whole-heartedly claim that part. No hard R's, no pushing my tongue out (that shit always annoyed me) Have I said some things that, if they were dug up today could have been construed as anti-gay? Probably. Hell, that Southpark bit about calling people fags STILL makes me roll laughing. Same thing for being a dick towards girls. I was a cute high-school guy with a nice jawline, grin and I was in sports. Damn it, I wouldn't have let me date your daughter... I was just good at being charming. I also grew up with 90's and early 2000's R&B. Romantic as hell type stuff. And you have to be about the ugliest dude on earth if you haven't gotten a girls clothes off with a little help from your friends - Boyz II Men. That's where the charming side got some huge influence, I didn't have to be a douchebag to get what I wanted. Doesn't make it right. Point being, EVERYBODY is full of shit IMHO. I've come across so few human beings that can't be bought or labeled as whatever -ist or -ism we prefer that it really isn't even funny anymore. I have a dear friend, a family member, part of the organization and movement in Cleveland. He moved back from LA to start the grass roots here. HE is full of shit. He uses his position to target impressionable girls that are in the party/BLM to try to bang them. Seen it first hand. He's an ordained minister as well, but that MF will be ALL OVER tinder the second he leaves his friends and comes back to visit home where he can discreetly troll for ass. Gruden is a fucking clown for saying these things in a non-joking manner. The NFL, for all of the commercials about preventing violence towards women, is endorsing a half-time act that glorified that in our music. Speaking of, while it is entertainment, our society has been blurring the line between reality and entertainment for years. Hell, Em said it best - "See these kids hear about us totin' pistols and wanna get one cuz they think the shits cool". We need to take better care of what we digest and how we parse it from what is real, and what is entertainment. Because if you're going to dismiss Gruden because "he's a coach of men and should know better"... Well, football is entertainment, JUST like what you'll see on stage at the Superbowl. We're banning one and glorifying the other. At what point do we accept this mans apology, believe he is sincere and work to move forward and demonstrate a CHANGED man? If his players were willing to give that a try, could we not as well? edit: I believe in Mike Vick being a changed man. Served his time and is worlds removed from who he was. EVERYONE can get it from me. Or as the great George Carlin said - "You're all diseased" On 10/12/2021 at 6:52 PM, tiamat63 said: -I just gave you examples of Incognito and Riley Cooper, the latter dropping a hard R on tape and making it a few years until he declined. -Kaepernick never saw the field again for a combination of reasons. His turnover prone play when he didn't play in a button-downed offense, his salary demands, the media headache it would have induced and the pig socks. It was a chemical cocktail of nonsense and AFTER Trump was elected, Old boy was all "yeah, I see progress, I'm willing to not take a knee now". I'm cool with Kaep, I have zero issue with his stances or way he went about his demonstrations. But he fucking sold out with those comments right there because he wanted back in the league. When the NFL rejected him, he went back to his more radical demeanor. - The lyrics were meant to shock and offend whom, and anyone a party to who they were a party too. That was literally HALF the point of Em was he young. Are you not old enough to remember the protests outside of his shows and across the country? Shit, Fox news probably had more air time about him and Marilyn Manson then Geraldo Rivera ever got. - We have all, included my damn self, said some VERY questionable shit. I was joking with a few female friends of mine who have known me as far back as elementary, there are few girls who could accuse me of some heinous shit and I would literally not be able to defend myself. Not because I did any of that sort of thing, but because there's one parts modern accountability, and one parts en' vogue. It's "cool" to call out that sort of thing, perceived or real. Not racist though, I can actually whole-heartedly claim that part. No hard R's, no pushing my tongue out (that shit always annoyed me) Have I said some things that, if they were dug up today could have been construed as anti-gay? Probably. Hell, that Southpark bit about calling people fags STILL makes me roll laughing. Same thing for being a dick towards girls. I was a cute high-school guy with a nice jawline, grin and I was in sports. Damn it, I wouldn't have let me date your daughter... I was just good at being charming. I also grew up with 90's and early 2000's R&B. Romantic as hell type stuff. And you have to be about the ugliest dude on earth if you haven't gotten a girls clothes off with a little help from your friends - Boyz II Men. That's where the charming side got some huge influence, I didn't have to be a douchebag to get what I wanted. Doesn't make it right. Point being, EVERYBODY is full of shit IMHO. I've come across so few human beings that can't be bought or labeled as whatever -ist or -ism we prefer that it really isn't even funny anymore. I have a dear friend, a family member, part of the organization and movement in Cleveland. He moved back from LA to start the grass roots here. HE is full of shit. He uses his position to target impressionable girls that are in the party/BLM to try to bang them. Seen it first hand. He's an ordained minister as well, but that MF will be ALL OVER tinder the second he leaves his friends and comes back to visit home where he can discreetly troll for ass. Gruden is a fucking clown for saying these things in a non-joking manner. The NFL, for all of the commercials about preventing violence towards women, is endorsing a half-time act that glorified that in our music. Speaking of, while it is entertainment, our society has been blurring the line between reality and entertainment for years. Hell, Em said it best - "See these kids hear about us totin' pistols and wanna get one cuz they think the shits cool". We need to take better care of what we digest and how we parse it from what is real, and what is entertainment. Because if you're going to dismiss Gruden because "he's a coach of men and should know better"... Well, football is entertainment, JUST like what you'll see on stage at the Superbowl. We're banning one and glorifying the other. At what point do we accept this mans apology, believe he is sincere and work to move forward and demonstrate a CHANGED man? If his players were willing to give that a try, could we not as well? edit: I believe in Mike Vick being a changed man. Served his time and is worlds removed from who he was. EVERYONE can get it from me. Or as the great George Carlin said - "You're all diseased" I’m quoting this as a means to acknowledge I saw this novel. I’m not reading or responding to this tonight. Lol. Incognito and Cooper are both pieces of shit that shouldn’t have jobs. On 10/12/2021 at 7:28 PM, Vagitron said: I’m quoting this as a means to acknowledge I saw this novel. I’m not reading or responding to this tonight. Lol. Incognito and Cooper are both pieces of shit that shouldn’t have jobs. I had a few espresso's trying to get my early scouting work in on my weekly bets, and I'm still coming down from the pre-workout that I hardly use anymore. That's a solid my bad. On 10/12/2021 at 4:53 PM, Vagitron said: The nfl didn’t do a damn thing to gruden. Actually, they did. Note that ONLY the emails about Gruden were released from the WFT/Snyder/Allen investigation into the heinous shit they were pulling [actual prostitution of their cheerleaders etc] and absolutely zero else was presented in hard evidence form.. everything else was "verbally testified to." Why? Because the shit that must have been gathered was WAAY over the line and public would have demanded they sell immediately if it was released. The reason the NFL released all this detail on Gruden was so that he, a mid-level schmuck compared to the owner group, would be the only fall guy resulting from the WFT investigation. They threw out a midlevel manager to preserve the CEO. On 10/12/2021 at 5:19 PM, Kvoethe said: cancel culture is Cancel culture doesn't exist. The internet means that nobody gets canceled. If Gruden wanted to, he could start a podcast, start a substack -- but because of the internet way-back machine, he can't get away with the ridiculous shit he used to. Shockingly, "I hate black people and find it enjoyable to treat women like shit" is not a business position that draws in the customers. 100% of everyone who talks about "cancel culture" as something either new or bad is just defending lazy entitled whiners looking for the latest excuse for their own incompetence at the skill of selling themselves and growing their audience. The "culture" that is referred to in "cancel culture" is.. the free market. You'd never expect that use of the phrase "cancel culture" is 99% only amongst conservatives.. the same ones who run around saying "Fuck Your Feelings." The operative word in "Fuck your feelings" has always been YOUR. As in: YOUR feelings are worthless, fuck them. But my precious conservative feelings are very important and you must cater to them! Just in case there was anyone left who didn't know that conservatism is, was and always has been driven by literally nothing but feelings - and attacking other people for hurting said feelings. Or, perhaps shorter, A hit dog will holler. On 10/12/2021 at 7:33 PM, tiamat63 said: I had a few espresso's trying to get my early scouting work in on my weekly bets, and I'm still coming down from the pre-workout that I hardly use anymore. That's a solid my bad. I will respond to that tomorrow, drove into the burgh today on the later side only to be met with some weird ass shut down on 76 east. Tractor trailers in panic mode all over the damn place because there was no mention of a shut down. I’m the opposite of wired right now. Tired and grunpy! All I know is expresso, plus preworkout doesn’t sound like a great mix. Lol On 10/12/2021 at 10:13 PM, Unsympathetic said: Actually, they did. Note that ONLY the emails about Gruden were released from the WFT/Snyder/Allen investigation into the heinous shit they were pulling [actual prostitution of their cheerleaders etc] and absolutely zero else was presented in hard evidence form.. everything else was "verbally testified to." Why? Because the shit that must have been gathered was WAAY over the line and public would have demanded they sell immediately if it was released. The reason the NFL released all this detail on Gruden was so that he, a mid-level schmuck compared to the owner group, would be the only fall guy resulting from the WFT investigation. They threw out a midlevel manager to preserve the CEO. Cancel culture doesn't exist. The internet means that nobody gets canceled. If Gruden wanted to, he could start a podcast, start a substack -- but because of the internet way-back machine, he can't get away with the ridiculous shit he used to. Shockingly, "I hate black people and find it enjoyable to treat women like shit" is not a business position that draws in the customers. 100% of everyone who talks about "cancel culture" as something either new or bad is just defending lazy entitled whiners looking for the latest excuse for their own incompetence at the skill of selling themselves and growing their audience. The "culture" that is referred to in "cancel culture" is.. the free market. You'd never expect that use of the phrase "cancel culture" is 99% only amongst conservatives.. the same ones who run around saying "Fuck Your Feelings." The operative word in "Fuck your feelings" has always been YOUR. As in: YOUR feelings are worthless, fuck them. But my precious conservative feelings are very important and you must cater to them! Just in case there was anyone left who didn't know that conservatism is, was and always has been driven by literally nothing but feelings - and attacking other people for hurting said feelings. Or, perhaps shorter, A hit dog will holler. I will respond to all of this tomorrow too. However the first paragraph wouldn’t surprise me AT ALL. I could really go down the rabbit hole on that one. I have zero tolerance for hateful bs, more so in this social climate because people feel more comfortable stepping out of the asshole shadows. Thank the very loud vocal minority. I blame apathy for a lot of this shit because sooooo many only give a shit if something happens to them. 2 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 I didn't mean to merge this all into one post, fat thumb. But it was time to move it all to poli. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Zombo said: I didn't mean to merge this all into one post, fat thumb. But it was time to move it all to poli. Z Yeah we already have one but... Meanwhile [insert any one of a hundred nasty sports figures] is still collecting a paycheck.😇 WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Zombo said: I didn't mean to merge this all into one post, fat thumb. But it was time to move it all to poli. Z Past time.. It was getting nasty 3 hours ago, Westside Steve said: Yeah we already have one but... Meanwhile [insert any one of a hundred nasty sports figures] is still collecting a paycheck.😇 WSS Steve, also noticed Z deleted a couple posts- as he should have. (including mine) There's a certain poster here who has a rare talent for seriously pissing me off. Holds the honor of the only Browns fan I've ever had to suspend for over the top profane insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, hoorta said: Past time.. It was getting nasty Steve, also noticed Z deleted a couple posts- as he should have. (including mine) There's a certain poster here who has a rare talent for seriously pissing me off. Holds the honor of the only Browns fan I've ever had to suspend for over the top profane insulting. Well if it has any connection to Gruden I've actually seen your lips and they don't seem that outrageously large. 😆 WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 hours ago, hoorta said: Past time.. It was getting nasty Steve, also noticed Z deleted a couple posts- as he should have. (including mine) There's a certain poster here who has a rare talent for seriously pissing me off. Holds the honor of the only Browns fan I've ever had to suspend for over the top profane insulting. I didn't mean to delete any ... I didn't really read any. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 For what it's worth, which is probably nothing https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-raiders-had-more-black-players-than-any-nfl-team-then-jon-gruden-took-over-the-roster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 23, 2021 Report Share Posted October 23, 2021 this guy is really "unsympathetic" 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted October 23, 2021 Report Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 23, 2021 Report Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Axe said: AND they can get fake outraged and fake terrified........but can NOT bring themselves to be genuinely outraged and terrified over the destruction that their votes elected the most corrupt, dangerously inept and destructively leftwing "president/vp" and radical hacks in American history, by a huge, huge degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/21/jon-gruden-to-hbo-the-truth-will-come-out/?fbclid=IwAR0HgRHuHo1OsGrQ6ngEvLeMDlh4zdsJQSFST_6zYMFLyCMEJ0wRMzPvjBo Jon Gruden to HBO: “The truth will come out” It remains to be seen where and how the truth will come out. As Myles Simmons and I discussed on Wednesday’s #PFTPM, litigation would be one vehicle for the truth coming out. And not litigation between Gruden and the Raiders, but litigation between Gruden and the NFL, for a legal theory such as tortious interference with business relationships. In theory, the Raiders could join Gruden in that fight. Someone decided to pull the pin on the Gruden grenade during football season, leaking documents and forcing action in early October. It could have happened before the season. It could have happened after the season. In either of those cases, the Raiders would have been in a much better position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 Some Woke pussy liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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