NFL coach out over his refusal to get COVID vaccine

[calfoxwc]

The US is Dramatically Overcounting Coronavirus Deaths by ...

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnrlottjr/2020/05/16/the-us-is-dramatically-overcounting-coronavirus-deaths-n2568925

May 16, 2020Editor's Note: Timothy Craig Allen, MD, JD, contributed to this column. Over 86,500 people have reportedly died in the United States from the Coronavirus, and the fear generated by those deaths is

[hoorta]

Just to get back on topic regarding the original post...  Not so fast, more jumping the gun. that sure fits a FOX announcer's narrative though. Dennison isn't fired- he's been reassigned to have less (probably no) player contact...  https://www.nfl.com/news/rick-dennison-vikings-senior-offensive-advisor-offensive-line-covid-19

[hoorta]

15 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

The US is Dramatically Overcounting Coronavirus Deaths by ...

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnrlottjr/2020/05/16/the-us-is-dramatically-overcounting-coronavirus-deaths-n2568925

May 16, 2020Editor's Note: Timothy Craig Allen, MD, JD, contributed to this column. Over 86,500 people have reportedly died in the United States from the Coronavirus, and the fear generated by those deaths is

Seriously Cal- you have to drag up an article that's over a year old?  Maybe that's correct- maybe not. The official record keeper (John Hopkins) of covid infections, hospitalizations and deaths would disagree with that right wing article.  Believe whatever you want to. No sense arguing with a brick wall...  

[Vambo]

9 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Just to get back on topic regarding the original post...  Not so fast, more jumping the gun. that sure fits a FOX announcer's narrative though. Dennison isn't fired- he's been reassigned to have less (probably no) player contact...  https://www.nfl.com/news/rick-dennison-vikings-senior-offensive-advisor-offensive-line-covid-19

Rick Dennison out as Minnesota Vikings assistant after refusing COVID-19 vaccine, sources say

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31869652/rick-dennison-minnesota-vikings-assistant-refusing-covid-19-vaccine-sources-say

 

[VaporTrail]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:22 PM, MLD Woody said:

Again, I said I don't see anything wrong with people with legitimate medical issues not getting vaccinated. A history of allergic reactions to the disease or currently being pregnant both seem like legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated. And in the case of those illnesses/diseases, you said it yourself, you can't prove the vaccine caused much of anything. Blood clots aren't exactly uncommon, etc.

While blood clots are common, the neuromuscular stuff I've seen is not. Is fear of rare side effects a valid reason to skip the vaccine? The number of neuromuscular cases that I'm seeing following vaccination is alarming to me, personally. That shit scares me much more than COVID does.

Quote

And you clearly know what you're talking about. I try to get posters on here to listen to experts and academics just to see a huge "anti" movement in that space. It would be hypocritical of me to then largely go against the word of someone actually working in the medical field. Where you're coming from and where the majority of anti-vaxxer / anti-covid vaccine people are coming from are two very different places. I'm going to guess you actually think COVID exists and that deaths from COVID exist, which already gets you leaps and bounds ahead of a concerningly large portion of the country. I mean shit, at this point, 99+% of COVID deaths are from the unvaccinated? We can disagree on where that line is drawn for where an individual should get vaccinated. I'd like to see more get vaccinated so that we can try to actually get this stamped out, or at least more under control. I think a lot against the vaccine is some fear-mongering, as risk exists with a lot of things.

We are on the same page with social media being a deleterious scourge on society. The only differences I see in between myself and the anti-vax crowd is that they have a lay understanding of the issues, and I choose to avoid social media (except for thebrownsboard). The 99% deaths from unvaccinated versus vaccinated is the obvious point for Fauci to focus on as he is trying to control it from a population standpoint. It's a fantastic argument for the obese and COPD'ers to get the jab, but poor reasoning for the healthy, young American to get it.

Quote

At this point though, I think we're just going to go around in circles. So I respect your knowledge here, I know you know what you're talking about, I think where you're coming from and the people I'm describing are very different, and we stand at different points in the ethical question of where to balance the greater good vs an individual. I think that basically sums it up. 

My biggest problem with what you're doing is that you are blaming some coach's decision to not get vaccinated on "misinformation." You are contributing to the problem of social media and polarization that you often complain about. You are making the divide between my patients and their decision to get the vaccine even wider. The issue of vaccine hesitancy is not a partisan issue, and if you take social media out of the issue, it pretty much boils down to being concerned over some side effect or another.

On 7/26/2021 at 5:21 PM, hoorta said:

Didn't realize you're a doctor.  I suppose I could read through those reports, then again- what's the percentage of serious side effects, as opposed to the obvious benefits of the vaccine being highly effective? With hundreds of millions of doses administered- we have a damn good handle on what any short term side effects serious (or not) are. 

Yes, I think we have enough data for the short term side effects and for me to speak in an educated manner about them. The chances of having these side effects are small, however, if you happen to get these side effects, the magnitude of its effect on your life is comparable (worse IMO) to the worst outcomes of COVID (I'd rather die than be quadriplegic). As a young, healthy person, the vaccine doesn't necessarily provide me personally with any tangible health benefits - the benefit I get is that I can rest easier knowing that I'm less likely to spread it to my patients or people that I care about. If you're over 60 or fat or a smoker, then your health benefits of getting the vaccine are pretty obvious. 

Quote

Granted- we don't know if there's going to be some long term issues with the vaccines, but from my POV and what I understand of the science- it's mighty doubtful. I'm (sort of ) OK with those who take the view not me, nope I'm not going to be another guinea pig.  But if you're the dumb asshole that gets the disease and causes a mutation that renders the current crop of vaccines ineffective- well, string that moron up .  

I don't think there is any evidence out there that allows anyone to say with any confidence that the long term effects are "mighty doubtful." I posit that this vaccine in particular would make you more likely to have long term effects than pretty much every other vaccine I've had the pleasure of getting. What concerns me is the massive immune response that the second dose of this vaccine elicits. Your immune system is a finely tuned machine and needs to work in the goldilocks zone. Too little and you get stuff like bubble boy (SCID), AIDS, and HIV. Too much, and you get stuff like MS, GBS, TM. The question I want to know most of all, and this is something I won't have an answer on for another 20-50 years is this: Does the vaccine increase your lifetime risk of neuromuscular disease? That second dose absolutely destroyed me for a day, and I have to wonder if any of those antibodies my body created are going to have a cumulative effect over time. 

Quote

As far as the NFL goes- looks like if you're unvaccinated and get covid- there goes your game check. Obviously some of those players aren't too smart after seeing what covid did to Myles Garrett and still being in the antivax crowd....  

Anecdotally, the young, healthy and otherwise no risk factor cases I've seen have been jacked dudes who look like they can bench press a volkswagen. The data, last I looked, shows that the virus tends to hit men harder than women. I wonder if testosterone or muscle mass somehow plays a role in it. 

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Seriously Cal- you have to drag up an article that's over a year old?  Maybe that's correct- maybe not. The official record keeper (John Hopkins) of covid infections, hospitalizations and deaths would disagree with that right wing article.  Believe whatever you want to. No sense arguing with a brick wall...  

https://www.brownsnation.com/why-nick-harris-has-potential-to-start-in-2022/

 

Joe Biden Breaks Down 3 Times Over Weekend – The President Talks About Vampires, Moms And Incoherent Words

By Adam Casalino|July 26, 2021

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

I don't think there is any evidence out there that allows anyone to say with any confidence that the long term effects are "mighty doubtful." I posit that this vaccine in particular would make you more likely to have long term effects than pretty much every other vaccine I've had the pleasure of getting. What concerns me is the massive immune response that the second dose of this vaccine elicits. Your immune system is a finely tuned machine and needs to work in the goldilocks zone. Too little and you get stuff like bubble boy (SCID), AIDS, and HIV. Too much, and you get stuff like MS, GBS, TM. The question I want to know most of all, and this is something I won't have an answer on for another 20-50 years is this: Does the vaccine increase your lifetime risk of neuromuscular disease? That second dose absolutely destroyed me for a day, and I have to wonder if any of those antibodies my body created are going to have a cumulative effect over time. 

Anecdotally, the young, healthy and otherwise no risk factor cases I've seen have been jacked dudes who look like they can bench press a volkswagen. The data, last I looked, shows that the virus tends to hit men harder than women. I wonder if testosterone or muscle mass somehow plays a role in it. 

Yeah- I'm aware of a cytokine response. You also didn't answer my question (that I'm too damn lazy too research on my own)  What's the current ratio of severe adverse reactions to the doses administered?  Like life threatening. From the get-go no one claimed these vaccines were 100% safe- neither are any others for that matter. And I said way back- 95% effective sure as hell isn't 100% effective. But the anti-vaxxers are making hay on the (to be expected) breakthrough infections.  

Just for fun- I'll play devils advocate with you.  If then was now- let's back it up 60 or so years. Salk's polio vaccine- and then the attenuated sugar cubes a few years later. OMG- the anti-vaxxers would have had a damn field day with that one today.  "Experimental unproven vaccine" "we don't know the long term effects".  Whatever. 20\20 hindsight tells me we had no fucking idea at the time of what the long term effects of ingesting an attenuated virus was going to do to us. The difference? Back then we trusted the "experts".  Now- anyone with a computer can claim to be a fucking "expert".  

Said it earlier- you don't want to take a chance? Young healthy? Tell that to the 15 kids in Jacksonville who are in ICU.  Be my guest, antivaxxers- but don't ask me to put flowers on your grave. 

[Westside Steve]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- I'm aware of a cytokine response. You also didn't answer my question (that I'm too damn lazy too research on my own)  What's the current ratio of severe adverse reactions to the doses administered?  Like life threatening. From the get-go no one claimed these vaccines were 100% safe- neither are any others for that matter. And I said way back- 95% effective sure as hell isn't 100% effective. But the anti-vaxxers are making hay on the (to be expected) breakthrough infections.  

Just for fun- I'll play devils advocate with you.  If then was now- let's back it up 60 or so years. Salk's polio vaccine- and then the attenuated sugar cubes a few years later. OMG- the anti-vaxxers would have had a damn field day with that one today.  "Experimental unproven vaccine" "we don't know the long term effects".  Whatever. 20\20 hindsight tells me we had no fucking idea at the time of what the long term effects of ingesting an attenuated virus was going to do to us. The difference? Back then we trusted the "experts".  Now- anyone with a computer can claim to be a fucking "expert".  

Said it earlier- you don't want to take a chance? Young healthy? Tell that to the 15 kids in Jacksonville who are in ICU.  Be my guest, antivaxxers- but don't ask me to put flowers on your grave. 

Of course a lot of the points you make are true and also of course the apply to both sides. Let's good with anybody with a computer is an expert. How about anybody with a medical degree? It seems we berate or revere many of those based solely upon their political persuasion. Or their religion according to some of our bitter atheist members. I have a fair number of medical professionals within my circle of actual friends. Many of them are at one level or another of anti-vaxxers. And most of them aren't really political at all. 

Or social media is bulshit by and large. No shit. I don't know what anybody else's homepage is but mine is AOL. Almost everyday it kicks off with a headline about some crap story that probably would be on page five of the local paper. A million and a half people subscribe to AOL. That's just an example. Or the Browns Board for that matter. I check in here more often than I do the nbcnews. Most of the stuff here is personality-driven or some level of I'll see your Blaze article and I'll raise you the Atlantic.

And of course there are a lot of stupid people regardless of their good intentions. And that dovetails into another point I wanted to make about how often we use anecdotes to prove our points.

I was talking to a kid running the check out he was wearing a mask. I told him hey my man you should just get the vaccination so you didn't have to wear that thing. He answered me that he lived with his grandmother. He was a nice kid I didn't feel like arguing but I wonder if he realized that his wearing a mask in contact with hundreds of people a day really didn't make any difference on what germs he brought home to Grandma.

But to answer another of the points made above do I believe that organizations from Fox to MSNBC to the Summa Health Care system to Johns Hopkins to politicians at every level might be tempted to skew data towards their own purpose?

Not only yes;  Hell yes.

WSS

[Ibleedbrown]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.brownsnation.com/why-nick-harris-has-potential-to-start-in-2022/

 

Joe Biden Breaks Down 3 Times Over Weekend – The President Talks About Vampires, Moms And Incoherent Words

By Adam Casalino|July 26, 2021

If Biden had talked about werewolves l would agree with Nick Harris starting next year, but l’m not sure vampire talk is enough to get it done.

[Vambo]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- I'm aware of a cytokine response. You also didn't answer my question (that I'm too damn lazy too research on my own)  What's the current ratio of severe adverse reactions to the doses administered?  Like life threatening. From the get-go no one claimed these vaccines were 100% safe- neither are any others for that matter. And I said way back- 95% effective sure as hell isn't 100% effective. But the anti-vaxxers are making hay on the (to be expected) breakthrough infections.  

Just for fun- I'll play devils advocate with you.  If then was now- let's back it up 60 or so years. Salk's polio vaccine- and then the attenuated sugar cubes a few years later. OMG- the anti-vaxxers would have had a damn field day with that one today.  "Experimental unproven vaccine" "we don't know the long term effects".  Whatever. 20\20 hindsight tells me we had no fucking idea at the time of what the long term effects of ingesting an attenuated virus was going to do to us. The difference? Back then we trusted the "experts".  Now- anyone with a computer can claim to be a fucking "expert".  

Said it earlier- you don't want to take a chance? Young healthy? Tell that to the 15 kids in Jacksonville who are in ICU.  Be my guest, antivaxxers- but don't ask me to put flowers on your grave. 

U.S.

Texas police learn COVID-positive illegal immigrants sent to local hotels, after Whataburger encounter

[VaporTrail]

On 7/28/2021 at 1:33 AM, hoorta said:

Yeah- I'm aware of a cytokine response. You also didn't answer my question (that I'm too damn lazy too research on my own)  What's the current ratio of severe adverse reactions to the doses administered?  Like life threatening. From the get-go no one claimed these vaccines were 100% safe- neither are any others for that matter. And I said way back- 95% effective sure as hell isn't 100% effective. But the anti-vaxxers are making hay on the (to be expected) breakthrough infections.  

Just for fun- I'll play devils advocate with you.  If then was now- let's back it up 60 or so years. Salk's polio vaccine- and then the attenuated sugar cubes a few years later. OMG- the anti-vaxxers would have had a damn field day with that one today.  "Experimental unproven vaccine" "we don't know the long term effects".  Whatever. 20\20 hindsight tells me we had no fucking idea at the time of what the long term effects of ingesting an attenuated virus was going to do to us. The difference? Back then we trusted the "experts".  Now- anyone with a computer can claim to be a fucking "expert".  

Said it earlier- you don't want to take a chance? Young healthy? Tell that to the 15 kids in Jacksonville who are in ICU.  Be my guest, antivaxxers- but don't ask me to put flowers on your grave. 

My concern was not of the cytokine response - that's the concern for people spiraling the drain in the ICU. My concern is with the long-term effects of antibodies that your body creates in response to that. 

I don't know the answer to your question. It's very low, and if I had to guess, probably a fraction of a percent. If you're healthy and less than 50 years old, your likelihood of having severe COVID is on the same order of magnitude as having severe side effects from the vaccine. If you don't take care of your body, you should get the vaccine. 

The polio virus is not comparable to COVID. You had otherwise young and healthy children being crippled and put into iron lungs. The vast majority of people who go to the ICU for COVID are fat, old, and have a tobacco history. If COVID was doing to young and healthy people what it's doing to old and unhealthy people, I would be singing a different tune. If COVID starts killing and crippling kids, then obviously I'm going to change my view on the vaccine.

There was a hepatitis outbreak where I was seeing otherwise healthy 20 year olds with fulminant liver failure. I got the hep A vaccine as soon as I could because I don't want that shit happening to me. I've seen more young, healthy people with severe post-vax side effects than severe post-covid effects. Once that proportion flips, I'd happily change my view on the subject. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

4 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

people spiraling the drain in the ICU

Jargonistic and grossly inhumane term for a patient who is in the final days or weeks before death. 

[VaporTrail]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Jargonistic and grossly inhumane term for a patient who is in the final days or weeks before death. 

Unfortunately, when you're there to see it, gallows humor is often the only defense mechanism left to keep your sanity.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, VaporTrail said:

Unfortunately, when you're there to see it, gallows humor is often the only defense mechanism left to keep your sanity.

Actually, I can understand that....

[Browns149]

When are you guys going to realize, when you post such long story, no one is going to read it, other then your people’s?

[Vambo]

2 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

When are you guys going to realize, when you post such long story, no one is going to read it, other then your people’s?

Explains why you guys don't know much...

[DieHardBrownsFan]

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/93830?xid=NL_breakingnewsalert_2021-07-30&eun=g1726479d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CDCVaxBreakAlert_073021&utm_term=NL_Daily_Breaking_News_Active

[mjp28]

On 7/23/2021 at 8:31 PM, Canton Dawg said:

Imagine if your employer MADE you get the vaccine in order to keep your job.

Then IMAGINE the lawsuits filed after said vaccinations resulted in adverse side effects or death.

You can't tell FIRE in a dark theater......or you will be arrested.

You can't drive drunk and hurt someone......or you will be arrested.

You can't steal from others.......or you will be arrested.

On and on it goes but now we're in a world-wide pandemic millions have died and  you want to risk others lives because YOU don't want to want to go by employer's or other rules ?

It's time for a few new rules and regulations about being a clear and present danger to others.

We got our shots and wear masks where necessary.

 

[Canton Dawg]

6 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

You can't tell FIRE in a dark theater......or you will be arrested.

You can't drive drunk and hurt someone......or you will be arrested.

You can't steal from others.......or you will be arrested.

On and on it goes but now we're in a world-wide pandemic millions have died and  you want to risk others lives because YOU don't want to want to go by employer's or other rules ?

It's time for a few new rules and regulations about being a clear and present danger to others.

We got our shots and wear masks where necessary.

 

So it’s a good idea to open the southern border and let the illegals flow in during so called pandemic?

I agree with most of that, but I laugh at the government mandated wearing of the face diaper.

All I have to say is you would make a good citizen of a communist controlled country.

[mjp28]

7 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

So it’s a good idea to open the southern border and let the illegals flow in during so called pandemic?

I agree with most of that, but I laugh at the government mandated wearing of the face diaper.

All I have to say is you would make a good citizen of a communist controlled country.

Vaccines and masks work, proven over and over.  Non vaccination people are filling up the hospital COVID-19 wards 99.6 to 0.04 right now.

And communism is a big failure.

Time to fix the problem before the variants run away with it !

Here and now !

 

[Canton Dawg]

2 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Vaccines and masks work, proven over and over.  Non vaccination people are filling up the hospital COVID-19 wards 99.6 to 0.04 right now.

And communism is a big failure.

Time to fix the problem before the variants run away with it !

Here and now !

 

I agree vaccines work for those that get one (I got one) but they shouldn’t be mandated.

Just like seat belts, they work but shouldn’t be government mandated comrade.

[Vambo]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Vaccines and masks work, proven over and over.  Non vaccination people are filling up the hospital COVID-19 wards 99.6 to 0.04 right now.

And communism is a big failure.

Time to fix the problem before the variants run away with it !

Here and now !

 

So it’s a good idea to open the southern border and let the illegals flow in during so called pandemic?

[mjp28]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:30 PM, Vambo said:

So it’s a good idea to open the southern border and let the illegals flow in during so called pandemic?

Open borders bad idea.  So called pandemic,  it's bad and will get worse worldwide.

 

[Vambo]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Open borders bad idea.  So called pandemic,  it's bad and will get worse worldwide.

 

 

Border Patrol union official warns COVID-positive migrants being released into US ‘day in, day out’

More than 188,000 migrants were encountered at the southern border in June

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-patrol-official-covid-migrants-released-day-in-day-out

[calfoxwc]

dangerous times. concealed carry is the way to have a chance to survive meeting up with some of these destitute, violent criminals coming across our border and being SHIPPED all over the country.

Does any lib really support this> ???

Speak up. Let's see how you can possibly justify your silence so far.

[mjp28]

11 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

dangerous times. concealed carry is the way to have a chance to survive meeting up with some of these destitute, violent criminals coming across our border and being SHIPPED all over the country.

Does any lib really support this> ???

Speak up. Let's see how you can possibly justify your silence so far.

Like I've always said the only known way to stop 🛑 a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun 🔫.    Period, having a nice chat with him might leave you dead.

I used to think this was a big city problem but now is everywhere in the USA and somewhat abroad.

This dangerous flood of central America and anywhere else is a BAD idea..... only made worse by covid-19.

[calfoxwc]

6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Like I've always said the only known way to stop 🛑 a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun 🔫.    Period, having a nice chat with him might leave you dead.

I used to think this was a big city problem but now is everywhere in the USA and somewhat abroad.

This dangerous flood of central America and anywhere else is a BAD idea..... only made worse by covid-19.

My ccw instructor had a friend who never owned a gun, didn't need one (right) until one evening, he and his buddy went fishing at berlin reservoir. They started to go in as it started to get dark - but saw that their car was all alone, but a white car was parked next to them, and they were trying to get in his car - trying to open them, etc. They stopped at a distance, and waited. It was near midnight when the hoods finally left. Cig burns on his  car, beer cans on his car.....windshield cracked. He said they were far too afraid to go in. When the car left, they waited another half hr before going in, and he went and asked my friend to teach him about guns and get him in ccw class.

that was years ago before mass influx of destitute, uneducated illegals have flooded out country, some diseased, most desperate to resort to crime to have money, too many joining violent gangs, some violent career criminals, some not sane.....

a tyrannical gov can't control and dominate a society without taking their guns and making them feel serious fear.

illegals are being shipped all over - covid infected ones too.

who the hell would DO THAT?

a gov that craves dictatorship power and control over a country. permanently.

Time to grow the heck up and stop bitching about Pres Trump. before it's too late.

[Vambo]

6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Like I've always said the only known way to stop 🛑 a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun 🔫.    Period, having a nice chat with him might leave you dead.

I used to think this was a big city problem but now is everywhere in the USA and somewhat abroad.

This dangerous flood of central America and anywhere else is a BAD idea..... only made worse by covid-19.

Health

Fauci warns latest COVID-19 wave is ‘going to get worse’

Can you say Midterms!

[calfoxwc]

Massive COVID Spike Erupts Among Detained Immigrants as ...

https://clarion.causeaction.com/2021/07/20/massive-covid-spike-erupts-among-detained-immigrants-as-bidens-border-crisis-continues/

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and other Republican senators introduced a bill last week to extend Title 42, a provision that allows the U.S. to turn away illegal immigrants at the nation's southern border due to the risk of their spreading COVID-19. The Securing the Homeland from International Entrants with Life-threatening Diseases, or SHIELD, Act would continue the public health protections enacted ...

Mounting Evidence Points to Covid Refugees from Mexico as ...

https://cis.org/Bensman/Mounting-Evidence-Points-Covid-Refugees-Mexico-Major-Factor-BorderState-Spikes

Evidence continues to mount that spikes in Covid cases in U.S. border states are due to successive waves of infected people fleeing Mexico's dysfunctional and overwhelmed hospitals to get American medical care at least as much, if not more than, to the re-opening of those states' economies. This matters because officials in border states are beginning to base policy decisions for partial lock ...

COVID cases reportedly surging in illegal immigrant ...

https://nypost.com/2021/07/06/covid-cases-reportedly-surging-in-immigrant-detention-centers/

Jul 6, 2021COVID-19 cases are reportedly surging in crowded government detention centers, as the number of illegal immigrants being held in the facilities has nearly doubled in the past months.

[Vambo]