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NFL coach out over his refusal to get COVID vaccine


Vambo

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3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Imagine being so wrapped up in misinformation that you leave a successful, high paying job youve spent your whole career working towards.

Dr. Fauci on new NFL vaccination policy: “It’s a way of functionally mandating without explicitly mandating.”

https://therecount.com/watch/dr-fauci-on-new-nfl/2645871872

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7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Imagine being so wrapped up in misinformation that you leave a successful, high paying job youve spent your whole career working towards.

Imagine if your employer MADE you get the vaccine in order to keep your job.

Then IMAGINE the lawsuits filed after said vaccinations resulted in adverse side effects or death.

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2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Imagine if your employer MADE you get the vaccine in order to keep your job.

Then IMAGINE the lawsuits filed after said vaccinations resulted in adverse side effects or death.

I think his family owns the company. how else do you "graduate from college", go to work and then refer to your entire dept as "my people".

that would explain why he has never lived a day in his woodpecker existence.

just peck/bitch/lie/and pout. He's been proving me absolutely correct on his woodpeckeritis for at least a few years now....

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1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

I think his family owns the company. how else do you "graduate from college", go to work and then refer to your entire dept as "my people".

that would explain why he has never lived a day in his woodpecker existence.

just peck/bitch/lie/and pout. He's been proving me absolutely correct on his woodpeckeritis for at least a few years now....

Sounds like Hunter Biden...

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2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Imagine being so wrapped up in misinformation that you leave a successful, high paying job youve spent your whole career working towards.

whatever happened to "my body - my choice"  ? 

as a pro choice proponent as yourself doesnt that fit here?

you do know that the vax jab is only good for controlling symptoms for the taker and not preventing anything else?

take your "misinformation " get a clue,  live some more of your life before you claim ignorance like you do so well here...

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22 minutes ago, FairHooker11 said:

whatever happened to "my body - my choice"  ? 

as a pro choice proponent as yourself doesnt that fit here?

you do know that the vax jab is only good for controlling symptoms for the taker and not preventing anything else?

take your "misinformation " get a clue,  live some more of your life before you claim ignorance like you do so well here...

image.png.e22f0779f7585c5b438ee014a3fa1e92.png

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3 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Imagine being so wrapped up in misinformation that you leave a successful, high paying job youve spent your whole career working towards.

1 hour ago, FairHooker11 said:

whatever happened to "my body - my choice"  ? 

I too would like to know how you answer that question, Woody. It's really easy to slam dunk on conservatives for distrust of the vaccine, but are the 64% of black Americans or 59% of hispanic Americans who didn't get the vaccine wrapped up in misinformation too? As a doctor in this day and age, we are taught that patient autonomy takes precedence over pretty much anything else. In the Tuskegee experiments, the US government conducted unethical experiments on people that were thought of as lesser. The FDA ordered 60 million J&J vaccines destroyed last month. The long-term risks of the vaccine are not and will not be known for years. Nothing of what I've said is misinformation. There are reasons other than misinformation to be scared to take the vax. Every time I recommend the vaccine to someone who is not in an at-risk population, I am essentially asking them to put population health over them being used as a guinea pig. Shaming people who don't want to be a guinea pig is not going to get us to herd immunity any quicker. The majority of attacks I see on people who are hesitant to get the vaccine is partisan bullshit. 


image.thumb.png.eb73a42d6687b1905027e488d95252f3.png

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9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I think his family owns the company. how else do you "graduate from college", go to work and then refer to your entire dept as "my people".

that would explain why he has never lived a day in his woodpecker existence.

just peck/bitch/lie/and pout. He's been proving me absolutely correct on his woodpeckeritis for at least a few years now....

you're an idiot Cal

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8 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

I too would like to know how you answer that question, Woody. It's really easy to slam dunk on conservatives for distrust of the vaccine, but are the 64% of black Americans or 59% of hispanic Americans who didn't get the vaccine wrapped up in misinformation too? As a doctor in this day and age, we are taught that patient autonomy takes precedence over pretty much anything else. In the Tuskegee experiments, the US government conducted unethical experiments on people that were thought of as lesser. The FDA ordered 60 million J&J vaccines destroyed last month. The long-term risks of the vaccine are not and will not be known for years. Nothing of what I've said is misinformation. There are reasons other than misinformation to be scared to take the vax. Every time I recommend the vaccine to someone who is not in an at-risk population, I am essentially asking them to put population health over them being used as a guinea pig. Shaming people who don't want to be a guinea pig is not going to get us to herd immunity any quicker. The majority of attacks I see on people who are hesitant to get the vaccine is partisan bullshit. 


image.thumb.png.eb73a42d6687b1905027e488d95252f3.png

 

Yes, it is very easy to dunk on conservatives about this. Yes, blacks and hispanics are wrapped up in misinformation too. Though in that case, it may come from a general distrust of the US medical system which has some racist black eyes in its history (though I know many posters here will immediately scoff at hearing another thing in America has some historic, systemic racism... but a lot of stuff does). 

And I would absolutely be harder on someone wealthier, like this coach, that has access to all of the information he could want. I don't consider this "my body, my choice" because it is actively affecting other people. Pregnancy isn't contagious. COVID is. 

Calling them guinea pigs ignores or downplays all of the work done up until now. And yes, it is absolutely about not being selfish at this point. It is to help control the pandemic, control the spread, control these continued variations, etc. 

 

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1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

 

 

And I would absolutely be harder on someone wealthier, like this coach, that has access to all of the information he could want. I don't consider this "my body, my choice" because it is actively affecting other people. Pregnancy isn't contagious. COVID is. 

 

 

Pregnancy is a CHOICE unlike Covid there are ways to not get pregnant without taking drugs (vaccine) but abortion kills a person 100% of the time and Covid doesn't.

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11 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

 

Yes, it is very easy to dunk on conservatives about this. Yes, blacks and hispanics are wrapped up in misinformation too. Though in that case, it may come from a general distrust of the US medical system which has some racist black eyes in its history (though I know many posters here will immediately scoff at hearing another thing in America has some historic, systemic racism... but a lot of stuff does). 

And I would absolutely be harder on someone wealthier, like this coach, that has access to all of the information he could want. I don't consider this "my body, my choice" because it is actively affecting other people. Pregnancy isn't contagious. COVID is. 

Calling them guinea pigs ignores or downplays all of the work done up until now. And yes, it is absolutely about not being selfish at this point. It is to help control the pandemic, control the spread, control these continued variations, etc. 

 

 

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On 7/24/2021 at 9:11 AM, MLD Woody said:

Calling them guinea pigs ignores or downplays all of the work done up until now. And yes, it is absolutely about not being selfish at this point. It is to help control the pandemic, control the spread, control these continued variations, etc. 

Calling people who gotten the vaccine, including myself, guinea pigs doesn't downplay anything. Yes, a ton of work has gone into researching the side effects - but who are the test subjects? 

Quote

 I don't consider this "my body, my choice" because it is actively affecting other people.

Just because the virus affects others doesn't mean that an individual should give up their autonomy as a patient for the greater good. If they feel the urge to get the virus in order to protect others, then wonderful - Let them. That's why I got it. If they prioritize their health due to possible side effects of the vaccine over that of at-risk populations, then for the lower risk populations, it would be unethical for me to persuade them to go against their wishes. What you're suggesting is fine from a population-level point of view and Fauci is doing his job by encouraging the vax, but all that goes out the window at the individual level of the doctor-patient relationship. 

On 7/24/2021 at 9:11 AM, MLD Woody said:

Yes, blacks and hispanics are wrapped up in misinformation too. Though in that case, it may come from a general distrust of the US medical system which has some racist black eyes in its history

Can you admit that there are reasons other than "misinformation" to be hesitant to take the vaccine? 

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17 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Calling people who gotten the vaccine, including myself, guinea pigs doesn't downplay anything. Yes, a ton of work has gone into researching the side effects - but who are the test subjects? 

Just because the virus affects others doesn't mean that an individual should give up their autonomy as a patient for the greater good. If they feel the urge to get the virus in order to protect others, then wonderful - Let them. That's why I got it. If they prioritize their health due to possible side effects of the vaccine over that of at-risk populations, then for the lower risk populations, it would be unethical for me to persuade them to go against their wishes. What you're suggesting is fine from a population-level point of view and Fauci is doing his job by encouraging the vax, but all that goes out the window at the individual level of the doctor-patient relationship. 

Can you admit that there are reasons other than "misinformation" to be hesitant to take the vaccine? 

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41 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

Calling people who gotten the vaccine, including myself, guinea pigs doesn't downplay anything. Yes, a ton of work has gone into researching the side effects - but who are the test subjects? 

Just because the virus affects others doesn't mean that an individual should give up their autonomy as a patient for the greater good. If they feel the urge to get the virus in order to protect others, then wonderful - Let them. That's why I got it. If they prioritize their health due to possible side effects of the vaccine over that of at-risk populations, then for the lower risk populations, it would be unethical for me to persuade them to go against their wishes. What you're suggesting is fine from a population-level point of view and Fauci is doing his job by encouraging the vax, but all that goes out the window at the individual level of the doctor-patient relationship. 

Can you admit that there are reasons other than "misinformation" to be hesitant to take the vaccine? 

 

What are you considering other reasons? A history of systemic racism within the medical field making minorities reluctant to get the vaccine? I guess I get the hesitancy, but there is no testing on minorities here. It's a vaccine for the greater good to help reduce spread and further mutations

 

I'm also not counting anyone with a legitimate medical concern that is preventing them from getting the vaccine.

 

 

That said, I'd still bet money the vast majority of those that haven't been vaccinated are wrapped up in some level of misinformation that social media allows to spread just like the virus. 

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32 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

 

What are you considering other reasons? A history of systemic racism within the medical field making minorities reluctant to get the vaccine? I guess I get the hesitancy, but there is no testing on minorities here. It's a vaccine for the greater good to help reduce spread and further mutations

 

I'm also not counting anyone with a legitimate medical concern that is preventing them from getting the vaccine.

 

 

That said, I'd still bet money the vast majority of those that haven't been vaccinated are wrapped up in some level of misinformation that social media allows to spread just like the virus. 

The Texas Democrats were widely criticized for their actions in fleeing the state, most notably with a widely panned photo of many state representatives riding maskless on a private plane. The photo was later criticized when it was revealed that six of the Democrats traveling to Washington D.C. contracted the coronavirus.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-democrat-fears-rural-cop-retaliation-fleeing-state

 

They all had the vaccine hmmmm misinformation?

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1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

What are you considering other reasons? A history of systemic racism within the medical field making minorities reluctant to get the vaccine? I guess I get the hesitancy, but there is no testing on minorities here. It's a vaccine for the greater good to help reduce spread and further mutations

The CDC having a history of doing experimentation on humans that's on par with Dr. Mengele, in my book, is a reason for anyone of any skin color to have hesitation to trust us, even today. The FDA didn't put warning labels on tobacco products until around the time we were born. Opioids were being used to treat pain, which was being sold to doctors as "the fifth vital sign" up until I entered medical school. The opioid epidemic sure is fun to deal with. Medical authorities have gotten it wrong in countless more terrible ways. This list alone should be enough evidence to validate anyone who says "Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be in the first wave of these things." If you want me to take fear of malicious intent out of the equation, I'd be happy to do that below.

Quote

I'm also not counting anyone with a legitimate medical concern that is preventing them from getting the vaccine.

How do you define "legitimate medical concern?" You could ask me and 5 other doctors and I'm sure we'll all give you a different list. History of allergic reaction to vaccines? Might be worth getting if you're in a high-risk population. Pregnant? If you're a high-risk pregnancy sure, but I personally think it's fucking nuts to get a vaccine that elicits this heavy of an immune response while you're carrying child. Look at all the immunosuppression that people go on for an organ as simple as a kidney, then compare that to a lung or liver transplant. Then look at how immunosuppressed pregnant women must be if they have their blood circulating through an entire fetus. When you start getting into history of autoimmune and neurological diseases, the line gets really blurry there.

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

That said, I'd still bet money the vast majority of those that haven't been vaccinated are wrapped up in some level of misinformation that social media allows to spread just like the virus. 

Ignoring social media, there are documented cases of Bells palsy Bell’s palsy following COVID-19 vaccination (nih.gov), GBS Neurological Complications of COVID-19: Guillain-Barre Syndrome Following Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine (nih.gov), transverse myelitis COVID-19 vaccination-associated myelitis (nih.gov), and many other neuromuscular sequelae following the vaccination in otherwise healthy individuals. My source here is NIH's pubmed library, not twitter. Anecdotally, I've seen cases of Bells palsy, Guillain Barre syndrome, and mononeuritis multiplex in otherwise healthy individuals in the 4 weeks following the vaccine. I'm not saying that the vaccine caused these cases, but I certainly can't rule it out. I've seen plenty of blood clots in post-vaccinated hospitalized patients (who also have a ton of other risk factors for blood clots). Is hesitancy after reading about these cases because of "misinformation?" 

The best I can give patients who ask me about these possible side effects is "The percentage of people who have these symptoms following the vaccination is minimal." When they ask about long term effects, the best answer I can give them is "The vaccine hasn't been out long enough for long term effects to be studied at this time, but we will learn more with time." If the patient is in a high risk patient population, I can add, "Your risk of a hospitalization with COVID is likely much higher than the risk of those side effects." At this point, they'll do their own risks/benefits analysis and if they don't want to assume the risk of vaccine side effects, then that's a valid reason too. I can't ask an individual to put the health of the population over their own health. If you think this isn't a valid enough reason to decline the shot, then I congratulate you on the armchair quarterbacking, but that's really not how it works in real life.

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The sad part is, just yesterday, folks can still die if they are hit hard, and probably with other health problems of the lungs - will be in serious trouble.

   but mandating the vaccine is a disgrace. Let folks decide for themselves - it's up to them to choose wisely for themselves and their family.

But ridiculing those who fear getting the vaccine for whatever reasons, is counter-productive to put it lightly.

 

 

 

  

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40 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

The CDC having a history of doing experimentation on humans that's on par with Dr. Mengele, in my book, is a reason for anyone of any skin color to have hesitation to trust us, even today. The FDA didn't put warning labels on tobacco products until around the time we were born. Opioids were being used to treat pain, which was being sold to doctors as "the fifth vital sign" up until I entered medical school. The opioid epidemic sure is fun to deal with. Medical authorities have gotten it wrong in countless more terrible ways. This list alone should be enough evidence to validate anyone who says "Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be in the first wave of these things." If you want me to take fear of malicious intent out of the equation, I'd be happy to do that below.

How do you define "legitimate medical concern?" You could ask me and 5 other doctors and I'm sure we'll all give you a different list. History of allergic reaction to vaccines? Might be worth getting if you're in a high-risk population. Pregnant? If you're a high-risk pregnancy sure, but I personally think it's fucking nuts to get a vaccine that elicits this heavy of an immune response while you're carrying child. Look at all the immunosuppression that people go on for an organ as simple as a kidney, then compare that to a lung or liver transplant. Then look at how immunosuppressed pregnant women must be if they have their blood circulating through an entire fetus. When you start getting into history of autoimmune and neurological diseases, the line gets really blurry there.

Ignoring social media, there are documented cases of Bells palsy Bell’s palsy following COVID-19 vaccination (nih.gov), GBS Neurological Complications of COVID-19: Guillain-Barre Syndrome Following Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine (nih.gov), transverse myelitis COVID-19 vaccination-associated myelitis (nih.gov), and many other neuromuscular sequelae following the vaccination in otherwise healthy individuals. My source here is NIH's pubmed library, not twitter. Anecdotally, I've seen cases of Bells palsy, Guillain Barre syndrome, and mononeuritis multiplex in otherwise healthy individuals in the 4 weeks following the vaccine. I'm not saying that the vaccine caused these cases, but I certainly can't rule it out. I've seen plenty of blood clots in post-vaccinated hospitalized patients (who also have a ton of other risk factors for blood clots). Is hesitancy after reading about these cases because of "misinformation?" 

The best I can give patients who ask me about these possible side effects is "The percentage of people who have these symptoms following the vaccination is minimal." When they ask about long term effects, the best answer I can give them is "The vaccine hasn't been out long enough for long term effects to be studied at this time, but we will learn more with time." If the patient is in a high risk patient population, I can add, "Your risk of a hospitalization with COVID is likely much higher than the risk of those side effects." At this point, they'll do their own risks/benefits analysis and if they don't want to assume the risk of vaccine side effects, then that's a valid reason too. I can't ask an individual to put the health of the population over their own health. If you think this isn't a valid enough reason to decline the shot, then I congratulate you on the armchair quarterbacking, but that's really not how it works in real life.

Again, I said I don't see anything wrong with people with legitimate medical issues not getting vaccinated. A history of allergic reactions to the disease or currently being pregnant both seem like legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated. And in the case of those illnesses/diseases, you said it yourself, you can't prove the vaccine caused much of anything. Blood clots aren't exactly uncommon, etc.

And you clearly know what you're talking about. I try to get posters on here to listen to experts and academics just to see a huge "anti" movement in that space. It would be hypocritical of me to then largely go against the word of someone actually working in the medical field. Where you're coming from and where the majority of anti-vaxxer / anti-covid vaccine people are coming from are two very different places. I'm going to guess you actually think COVID exists and that deaths from COVID exist, which already gets you leaps and bounds ahead of a concerningly large portion of the country. I mean shit, at this point, 99+% of COVID deaths are from the unvaccinated? We can disagree on where that line is drawn for where an individual should get vaccinated. I'd like to see more get vaccinated so that we can try to actually get this stamped out, or at least more under control. I think a lot against the vaccine is some fear-mongering, as risk exists with a lot of things.

At this point though, I think we're just going to go around in circles. So I respect your knowledge here, I know you know what you're talking about, I think where you're coming from and the people I'm describing are very different, and we stand at different points in the ethical question of where to balance the greater good vs an individual. I think that basically sums it up. 

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9 hours ago, Vambo said:

The Texas Democrats were widely criticized for their actions in fleeing the state, most notably with a widely panned photo of many state representatives riding maskless on a private plane. The photo was later criticized when it was revealed that six of the Democrats traveling to Washington D.C. contracted the coronavirus.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-democrat-fears-rural-cop-retaliation-fleeing-state

 

They all had the vaccine hmmmm misinformation?

 

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9 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Again, I said I don't see anything wrong with people with legitimate medical issues not getting vaccinated. A history of allergic reactions to the disease or currently being pregnant both seem like legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated. And in the case of those illnesses/diseases, you said it yourself, you can't prove the vaccine caused much of anything. Blood clots aren't exactly uncommon, etc.

And you clearly know what you're talking about. I try to get posters on here to listen to experts and academics just to see a huge "anti" movement in that space. It would be hypocritical of me to then largely go against the word of someone actually working in the medical field. Where you're coming from and where the majority of anti-vaxxer / anti-covid vaccine people are coming from are two very different places. I'm going to guess you actually think COVID exists and that deaths from COVID exist, which already gets you leaps and bounds ahead of a concerningly large portion of the country. I mean shit, at this point, 99+% of COVID deaths are from the unvaccinated? We can disagree on where that line is drawn for where an individual should get vaccinated. I'd like to see more get vaccinated so that we can try to actually get this stamped out, or at least more under control. I think a lot against the vaccine is some fear-mongering, as risk exists with a lot of things.

At this point though, I think we're just going to go around in circles. So I respect your knowledge here, I know you know what you're talking about, I think where you're coming from and the people I'm describing are very different, and we stand at different points in the ethical question of where to balance the greater good vs an individual. I think that basically sums it up. 

 

Fauci says booster shots might be needed for some Americans
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18 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

How do you define "legitimate medical concern?" You could ask me and 5 other doctors and I'm sure we'll all give you a different list. History of allergic reaction to vaccines? Might be worth getting if you're in a high-risk population. Pregnant? If you're a high-risk pregnancy sure, but I personally think it's fucking nuts to get a vaccine that elicits this heavy of an immune response while you're carrying child. Look at all the immunosuppression that people go on for an organ as simple as a kidney, then compare that to a lung or liver transplant. Then look at how immunosuppressed pregnant women must be if they have their blood circulating through an entire fetus. When you start getting into history of autoimmune and neurological diseases, the line gets really blurry there.

Ignoring social media, there are documented cases of Bells palsy Bell’s palsy following COVID-19 vaccination (nih.gov), GBS Neurological Complications of COVID-19: Guillain-Barre Syndrome Following Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine (nih.gov), transverse myelitis COVID-19 vaccination-associated myelitis (nih.gov), and many other neuromuscular sequelae following the vaccination in otherwise healthy individuals. My source here is NIH's pubmed library, not twitter. Anecdotally, I've seen cases of Bells palsy, Guillain Barre syndrome, and mononeuritis multiplex in otherwise healthy individuals in the 4 weeks following the vaccine. I'm not saying that the vaccine caused these cases, but I certainly can't rule it out. I've seen plenty of blood clots in post-vaccinated hospitalized patients (who also have a ton of other risk factors for blood clots). Is hesitancy after reading about these cases because of "misinformation?" 

Didn't realize you're a doctor.  I suppose I could read through those reports, then again- what's the percentage of serious side effects, as opposed to the obvious benefits of the vaccine being highly effective? With hundreds of millions of doses administered- we have a damn good handle on what any short term side effects serious (or not) are. 

Granted- we don't know if there's going to be some long term issues with the vaccines, but from my POV and what I understand of the science- it's mighty doubtful. I'm (sort of ) OK with those who take the view not me, nope I'm not going to be another guinea pig.  But if you're the dumb asshole that gets the disease and causes a mutation that renders the current crop of vaccines ineffective- well, string that moron up .  

As far as the NFL goes- looks like if you're unvaccinated and get covid- there goes your game check. Obviously some of those players aren't too smart after seeing what covid did to Myles Garrett and still being in the antivax crowd....  

PS- yes, I can be objective. CNN is being damn disingenuous screaming about the huge spike in cases..  50% increase of near zero is way below the peak number. Though I did notice Florida has logged an impressing #- taking a quick perusal of the John Hopkins data...  

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