Camp Battles / Browns Training Camp 2021

[Dutch Oven]

Hooper was pretty 'meh' last season. Not bad, mind you, just not someone that made you feel warm and fuzzy over the big contract they gave him. 

Looking forward to seeing how Bryant looks this season, after a full NFL offseason. Kid started off decently, then hit the proverbial wall at 100mph.

I've gotten burned on Njoku before, thinking he was on the cusp of becoming the guy the Browns used a first rounder on. We'll see. 

[Unsympathetic]

First, regarding the 2017 draft.. let's be thankful that our then-woeful "brain" trust didn't trade the pick that became njoku to sentence us to 4 years of Trubisky.

However, Njoku at 29 was appropriate - presuming, of course, you avoid thinking about someone named TJ watt who was taken at 30.  Move on but never forget..

38 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hooper was pretty 'meh' last season

Hooper was meh his whole career.. at ATL his entire route tree was drag, curl, and stand there in the flat.  It's like they never looked at any video to see the garbage time stats before signing him..

[Orion]

Hooper was a beast with Atlanta.  Last year was a very funky year.  With the lack of practice time, and trying to learn a new system and acquire proper timing....perhaps  everything can be put together this year.  

[Zombo]

Hooper seemed lead-footed to me.

Bryant could be the future at the position.

Z

[Orion]

17 hours ago, Zombo said:

Hooper seemed lead-footed to me.

...yes...that's a good way to put it...but Bryant runs like Frankenstein sometimes, with both arms around the ball...because he fumbled a time or two early in the season.

[Tour2ma]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:11 PM, Dutch Oven said:

And no one misunderstood what was going on during the Sashi era.

Belied by every post you make on the subject...

[gumby73]

I'd say we nailed most of these. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/what-position-battles-am-i-most-looking-forward-to-at-browns-training-camp-there-are-a-lot-ellis-l-williams.html

I'm also finding it hard for Woods to resist from playing a lot of Big Nickle with 3 Safety's with the likes of.. JJ3/Delpit & Ronnie Harrison... 

We might have a 2 look safety battle of Grant Delpit vs Ronnie Harrison to sort out also ? Rookie FS Richard LeCounte.. sits behind Delpit on most depth charts..Harrison sits behind JJ3

Dozen days till start of Training Camp    

[tiamat63]

That big nickel is essentially your base defense. I'm hoping more and more people are coming to this understanding. 

[Orion]

8 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

That big nickel is essentially your base defense.

That's the way I see it.  I don't expect to see much of the 3 lb'er sets.  Unless JOK turns out to be a good big safety....or unless the opponent is hell bent to show that they can push our D around with their running game.

[tiamat63]

Just now, Orion said:

That's the way I see it.  I don't expect to see much of the 3 lb'er sets.  Unless JOK turns out to be a good big safety....or unless the opponent is hell bent to show that they can push our D around with their running game.

JOK is your WILL and/or whatever other designation he's going to get in nickel and dime sets.  If he shows out in camp, he ain't leaving the field.   Your "Big" is likely Harrison.

[gumby73]

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

That big nickel is essentially your base defense. I'm hoping more and more people are coming to this understanding. 

When we head to KC week 1, I won't mind even seeing some speed corners on the field aka Ward/Greedy/Newsome with some Troy Hill 👀.. I've almost given up on Reek Hill being taking away from Homie in any game... Mecole Hardman is just as fast & becoming a WR weapon too.. Any DB insight on a high low double team to take away Travis Kelsey? I just assume Hill & Kelsey kill every team.. Not only the Browns..

[Orion]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

When we head to KC week 1,

Yeah...ultimately, we have to figure out how to beat them don't we.  Thus the 4-2-5....with some better players.  

[calfoxwc]

22 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yeah...ultimately, we have to figure out how to beat them don't we.  Thus the 4-2-5....with some better players.  

IT's really interesting - the Chief's defense is used to playing against Kelsey and Hill and Hardman in practice.... but the Browns have a huge advantage in DE's, LB's (now), and secondary (now) on defense. On offense, Baker can't run like a gazelle like Mahomes, but the Browns have a big advantage in oline, rb's and TE depth. The Browns can control the game? with their running game - but can Kelsey/Hill/Hardman get open often enough with this Browns secondary and linebackers? Can the Browns defense come together in time? Can Anthony Schwartz play as similar a dramatic role with the Browns offense his rookie year as Hill did with the Chiefs?

Luckily, Anthony has competition for playing time - Hill was a necessary quick addition to their offense.....

[gumby73]

12 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Tyreek Hill was mostly a kr when he came to the Chiefs - he had even been labeled a possible UDFA. Anthony IS a wr from the gitgo, even though he has a lot to learn, too. I expect to see Scwartz make a big difference with the Browns - not sure if he will be pressed into big productivity as soon.

When i can see if tSchwartz is T.Hill/Landry strong enough to get off press man in the 5 yards given...Than we may have something..I doubt NFL teams will let Schwartz have his 8-10 yard college free releases, saw on most of his college tape... It's the same thing 'fast as a comet' John Ross saw & is failing at..  

Our Punt return job is wide open..TAKE IT! He'll have to catch a punt first...THan address the NFL train wrecks ahead next.. He has the size & speed to do it.. I'll have my 'hate the pick in the 3rd' Anthony glasses on 🧐 him early & late... 

[gumby73]

 

Daryl Ruiter

 

@RuiterWrongFAN

For those asking about #Browns camp tix: Mon., July 19, registration for a chance to get up to 4 tix per account for practice through the team app or website. Tix delivered through lotto system. Season tix members & waitlist to get prioritized access to a %age of tix per practice

5:46 PM · Jul 15, 2021

Daryl Ruiter

 

@RuiterWrongFAN

#Browns will host 12 open practices for fans in Berea for Training Camp starting July 30 @ 2:25pm. Gates still open 1 HR in advance. Team can accommodate 2,000 fans per session for health & safety

4:31 PM · Jul 15, 2021

 

these should be tough to find 

 

@RuiterWrongFAN

#Browns joint practices with the #Giants will be held Aug. 19 & 20 & those practices are closed to the public.

4:28 PM · Jul 15, 2021

 

 

 

Edit--Orange Browns scrimmage added*

 

 

 

Camp Happy Friday !

[ballpeen]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:53 AM, Zombo said:

Hooper seemed lead-footed to me.

Bryant could be the future at the position.

Z

Speed has never been his deal. He is good at getting open by having enough juke in his cuts to gain separation, and he has really good hands.  But, yeah, he isn't a YAC guy, he is more of a possession type player.  Which is fine if you go in knowing he isn't going to run away from many players.

First downs work for me.  I don't expect him to break it for another 20-25 yards.

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, gumby73 said:

When i can see if tSchwartz is T.Hill/Landry strong enough to get off press man in the 5 yards given...Than we may have something..I doubt NFL teams will let Schwartz have his 8-10 yard college free releases, saw on most of his college tape... It's the same thing 'fast as a comet' John Ross saw & is failing at..  

Our Punt return job is wide open..TAKE IT! He'll have to catch a punt first...THan address the NFL train wrecks ahead next.. He has the size & speed to do it.. I'll have my 'hate the pick in the 3rd' Anthony glasses on 🧐 him early & late... 

 Good point on getting off the los, but Ross was also a db at times in his career, and had several injuries starting in college. He didn't have the muscle? to take hits etc. But he certainly was talented, and a burner. I think Schwartz is more a smart, driven kid - quick to learn, and can hold up playing a rough game. He has outstanding Browns coaches and fellow players to get him learning how to be a better wr in the pros. Ross went to the bungles. lol....

we'll see. I think he will develop into a star - he isn't Ross fragile, he's Tyreek tough.

[Orion]

23 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Can Anthony Schwartz play as similar a dramatic role with the Browns offense his rookie year as Hill did with the Chiefs?

I think, right now, I'd be happy if he could get off the 'Unsigned Draft Picks' portion of the team roster page.   ( & Newsome too)

[ballpeen]

22 hours ago, gumby73 said:

When i can see if tSchwartz is T.Hill/Landry strong enough to get off press man in the 5 yards given...Than we may have something..I doubt NFL teams will let Schwartz have his 8-10 yard college free releases, saw on most of his college tape... It's the same thing 'fast as a comet' John Ross saw & is failing at..  

Our Punt return job is wide open..TAKE IT! He'll have to catch a punt first...THan address the NFL train wrecks ahead next.. He has the size & speed to do it.. I'll have my 'hate the pick in the 3rd' Anthony glasses on 🧐 him early & late... 

They will press him at first.  I don't think being stuck at the LOS will be a problem.  As you said, teams played off him a lot in college.  I don't think they started out doing that. I think they backed off because he was beating the press and scorching people deeper.  I see it as there was a reason they played off  coverage.  he did play in the SEC.  It's not like he was facing crap teams or crap corners week in and week out.  

 

No doubt that time will tell and he will need to work on his technique

[tiamat63]

Beating press, any type of bump, jam whatever, is every bit as much about fluidity in movement,  hand usage and footwork (especially off the line) then it is simply strength.  Ever see Desean Jackson? He's 5'9 165lbs and not very strong.  If strength was the biggest factor then he would be getting owned by just about every corner in the NFL.

Granted, being a smaller target I'm sure helps.  Less strike area to get your hands on and Schwartz is a decently built kid as opposed to the smaller speed guys we've mentioned here ( 5'11 about 190) 

[ballpeen]

I agree.  

Plus, being bigger means there is more area to hit resulting in illegal contact downfield.

 

Bottom line, not getting off the line and in to the route isn't going to be a problem

[tiamat63]

Training camp tickets are open and available lottery style.

I put in for the Wednesday's. I'd like to make an early camp and a later camp.  So if you're there on the 4th, 11th or 25th - holla.  I'm trying to make all 3 and play catch up on missing my camp threads from a couple years ago.

[jrb12711]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:53 AM, Zombo said:

Hooper seemed lead-footed to me.

Bryant could be the future at the position.

Z

Hooper is one of those guys who does everything well, nothing great. They overpaid for him, for sure, but that level of veteran experience and reliability bodes well for the position. I'd be really surprised if he's on the roster next year (something like $6 million can be saved against the cap),  but I think he's great for this team could be this season.

Nice to see you all back here, by the way! With vaccines in arms and a quarantine 19 month old toddler, we've been making up for lost time with family and friends. But, I was able to buy a new house with a new 75'' TV and a recliner that I can't wait to argue with you mofos on Sundays in. 

[Unsympathetic]

2 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Nice to see you all back here, by the way! With vaccines in arms and a quarantine 19 month old toddler

My 7-week old is at grandma's until tomorrow afternoon.. freedom for a night! Stay safe, everyone -- the new variant is increasing [read: Spreading from person to person] even in the states with high vax rates.  My hospital still requires masks indoors.. ignorance is no excuse either for you or the people you will transmit it to [yes, even unintentionally].

Science is always advancing.. this past year's virtual eradication of the otherwise benign viral asthma triggers may have been the key all along.

 

Now let's get out there and arm wrestle over the difference during a play of 2 guys' 4.58 and 4.63 40-yard times!

[SdBacker80]

18 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Hooper is one of those guys who does everything well, nothing great. They overpaid for him, for sure, but that level of veteran experience and reliability bodes well for the position. I'd be really surprised if he's on the roster next year (something like $6 million can be saved against the cap),  but I think he's great for this team could be this season.

Nice to see you all back here, by the way! With vaccines in arms and a quarantine 19 month old toddler, we've been making up for lost time with family and friends. But, I was able to buy a new house with a new 75'' TV and a recliner that I can't wait to argue with you mofos on Sundays in. 

The cap hit on Hooper is pretty ugly the next two years.  We are better off using him and parting ways with Njoku.  I’ve always said Njoku will be better on his second contract it is too bad we are developing him for someone else.

Congrats on everything.  I have a 19 month old too.  The Baker jersey she had last year should fit better. 

[jrb12711]

16 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

My 7-week old is at grandma's until tomorrow afternoon.. freedom for a night! Stay safe, everyone -- the new variant is increasing [read: Spreading from person to person] even in the states with high vax rates.  My hospital still requires masks indoors.. ignorance is no excuse either for you or the people you will transmit it to [yes, even unintentionally].

Science is always advancing.. this past year's virtual eradication of the otherwise benign viral asthma triggers may have been the key all along.

 

Now let's get out there and arm wrestle over the difference during a play of 2 guys' 4.58 and 4.63 40-yard times!

yep, don't want to deflect too much but I'll say, honestly, wearing a mask has just kept me healthier overall. I recently went to a casino and wore my mask most of the time, and it was amazing how much better I felt not breathing in smoke for 8 hours. Good luck with that 7 week old!

 

51 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The cap hit on Hooper is pretty ugly the next two years.  We are better off using him and parting ways with Njoku.  I’ve always said Njoku will be better on his second contract it is too bad we are developing him for someone else.

Congrats on everything.  I have a 19 month old too.  The Baker jersey she had last year should fit better. 

For sure, but assuming I'm reading it correctly we can recoup $6 million in 2022 if he gets cut. I'm really not an expert on this stuff, but that could go a long way assuming we want to keep Ward, Chubb, and Mayfield. 

You too man! I think the wildest thing is that our kids won't remember this at all (God willing). My daughter is so used to seeing people in masks she even tries to put them back on our faces. 

[Unsympathetic]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

assuming I'm reading it correctly we can recoup $6 million in 2022 if he gets cut. I'm really not an expert on this stuff

Austin Hooper's Contract Details

Go to the top of the section colored red on the right side. Select either Cut (post-June 1] or Trade (post-June1).

In 2022 after 6/1, Hooper's dead hit [left column of the colored section] is only 3.75 and cap savings [right column] is 9.5.

I'd bet more than 1 posts in this thread would be different if this was noted earlier..

Unless TexansHQ is somehow convinced to take his contract [for a 3rd round 2022 pick, let's enjoy this dream], I think Hooper gets cut on 6/2/22 due to the savings kicking in before the 22 season.. and presuming Njoku continues in 2021 with his 2020 play, Njoku will be the one to get re-signed very quickly after the season.

[SdBacker80]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dawgsbynature.com/platform/amp/2020/3/31/21202198/breakdown-of-te-austin-hoopers-contract-with-the-browns

This paints the Hooper contract in a different light.

And before I cut Hooper I’d need to find out what Njoku is looking for and I also want to see how Bryant develops

 

[tiamat63]

So I'm very fortunate to be close with a couple people who have classmates (people I've met as well recently and we have a group text talking about football) who have insight into the team. (on staff, not coaching) 

Came up in conversation last night -  I guess Newsome looks "real" and "ahead of" Greedy.   Their words, not mine.    I didn't even have to mention anything, they just started giving some nice hints.

[gumby73]