NFL ...the dark side

[lodilobo]

I watched this show the other night, only because it was highlighting the Browns. I thought it was done poorly, and didn't really cover as much as it should have. The one thing that struck me, was the interview with D'Qwell Jackson. I kind of liked him when he played here, but after this, he exposed himself as the loser that he really is. He stated.... not in these exact words, that he was proud to play in the NFL, but didn't really want anyone to know that he played for the Browns. Now, we've all had similar feelings at some point over the past 20+ seasons...even if we don't want to admit it. But...this is different. He's a professional football player....we're fans. I've struggled with the question many times..."How can we be sooo bad for sooo long?" It defies the law of averages. I know we've had bad coaches, bad owners and bad players, but you have to admit that there were some teams over those years that really should have done much better, with the talent they had. This D'Qwell Jackson thing answers that question....well, for me, anyway. Any player...whether rookie or veteran...coming to a new team, with that attitude has no chance to help turn the team around. The stigma that became tied to the Cleveland Browns, has determined the fate of the team since 1999. It probably wasn't that strong with the Tim Couch teams, because those teams showed some heart, but lacked talent. Once the losing set in, players like Jackson determined the fate of the team...at least subconsciously. I have to assume a lot of the players did not want to be here from their first day, and played like it. This explains away all the jinx theories, the curse theories, and the "NFL hates us" theories. We can all debate Baker Mayfield's talent and ability to turn this team around, but from what I've seen, I have to think he has not fallen into that mentality, and never will. Thank God for players like Mayfield and Jarvis Landry.

 

\\

 

 

[Tour2ma]

Old news... and hardly "dark" when compared to the steroid and concussion histories of the league.

 

While I wore Browns gear around town throughout the "lean years", I wear it with a lot more pride now.

And reactions of strangers have gone from "condolances" to "how excited are you?"

[D Bone]

Losing begets losing, and winning does the same. The hard part is transitioning between the two, and right square in the middle of that transition period is the 'culture change' that every new regime talked about during their introductory press conference...... easily said, but oh so hard to do. 

The players are humans too and if I played for the Browns during that 4-44 stretch, I certainly wouldn't have been proud, and in fact, I would've been embarrassed as hell. Nothing wrong with DQ admitting as much. 

  

[lodilobo]

57 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Losing begets losing, and winning does the same. The hard part is transitioning between the two, and right square in the middle of that transition period is the 'culture change' that every new regime talked about during their introductory press conference...... easily said, but oh so hard to do. 

The players are humans too and if I played for the Browns during that 4-44 stretch, I certainly wouldn't have been proud, and in fact, I would've been embarrassed as hell. Nothing wrong with DQ admitting as much. 

  

I think there's plenty wrong with going through the motions while being paid millions to do it. The players are human, yes....but they should have enough loyalty to their employer to at least represent the team with pride. If my employer is paying me that kind of money, I'm wearing the team name/logo with pride. By the way....he was gone by 2013, so he didn't experience anything like 4 - 44. 

[gumby73]

where is this show being seen? Can a replay be seen on u-tubed or netflik'd? I'd be interested to give it a look

[Orion]

NOBODY wanted to play for the Browns.  Nobody wanted to be associated with the Browns.  We NEVER had the right mix of ownership, GM, coaches and QB.  Why would you want to come here?  Pretty much, you came here if you had no choice.  We were the epitome of disfunction.  I can't see why anyone could blame the players, coaches, GM's, etc. who avoided us or just plain ran away screaming (Shannahan).  

Does anyone really want to be associated with a laughing stock?  Did Archie Manning really want to be a Saint his whole career?   For the answer, look at what he did for his son Eli.  

[Canton Mike]

14 hours ago, lodilobo said:

I watched this show the other night, only because it was highlighting the Browns. I thought it was done poorly, and didn't really cover as much as it should have. The one thing that struck me, was the interview with D'Qwell Jackson. I kind of liked him when he played here, but after this, he exposed himself as the loser that he really is. He stated.... not in these exact words, that he was proud to play in the NFL, but didn't really want anyone to know that he played for the Browns. Now, we've all had similar feelings at some point over the past 20+ seasons...even if we don't want to admit it. But...this is different. He's a professional football player....we're fans. I've struggled with the question many times..."How can we be sooo bad for sooo long?" It defies the law of averages. I know we've had bad coaches, bad owners and bad players, but you have to admit that there were some teams over those years that really should have done much better, with the talent they had. This D'Qwell Jackson thing answers that question....well, for me, anyway. Any player...whether rookie or veteran...coming to a new team, with that attitude has no chance to help turn the team around. The stigma that became tied to the Cleveland Browns, has determined the fate of the team since 1999. It probably wasn't that strong with the Tim Couch teams, because those teams showed some heart, but lacked talent. Once the losing set in, players like Jackson determined the fate of the team...at least subconsciously. I have to assume a lot of the players did not want to be here from their first day, and played like it. This explains away all the jinx theories, the curse theories, and the "NFL hates us" theories. We can all debate Baker Mayfield's talent and ability to turn this team around, but from what I've seen, I have to think he has not fallen into that mentality, and never will. Thank God for players like Mayfield and Jarvis Landry.

 

AMEN to the boldfaced sentences!

Mike

[Dutch Oven]

I know it has been pretty much forgotten now, but there was a moment where it was rumored that Joe Thomas wanted traded from the Browns. I believe the rumor was that Denver was the potential landing spot.

Not only was I not mad at him for this, I was openly rooting for him to be able to leave and go to a good team. 

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, lodilobo said:

I think there's plenty wrong with going through the motions while being paid millions to do it. The players are human, yes....but they should have enough loyalty to their employer to at least represent the team with pride. If my employer is paying me that kind of money, I'm wearing the team name/logo with pride. By the way....he was gone by 2013, so he didn't experience anything like 4 - 44. 

But, if you play like crap to get your way out of town- it shows.   Or cop an attitude- adios.  Worst example I can recall is Eric Dickerson literally quitting- in the middle of a game- against the Browns no less...

MHO the primary reason the Browns stunk for so long was horrendous drafting.  I could give you a litany of the Pro Bowl and HOF players the Browns whiffed on who were still on the board when we drafted. Sure bad coaches and bad management were certainly a factor too....

Yes winning begets more winning, and losing begets more losing. I'll be curious to see if we can bury the Patriot mystique after a losing season...  

[lodilobo]

15 hours ago, Orion said:

NOBODY wanted to play for the Browns.  Nobody wanted to be associated with the Browns.  We NEVER had the right mix of ownership, GM, coaches and QB.  Why would you want to come here?  Pretty much, you came here if you had no choice.  We were the epitome of disfunction.  I can't see why anyone could blame the players, coaches, GM's, etc. who avoided us or just plain ran away screaming (Shannahan).  

Does anyone really want to be associated with a laughing stock?  Did Archie Manning really want to be a Saint his whole career?   For the answer, look at what he did for his son Eli.  

Nope....not buying into this. Shanahan knew what he was getting in to. He obviously couldn't accept the g.m. or the owner's restrictions. Josh Cribbs wanted to play for the Browns...as did many others. Dysfunctional?....we definitely took it to a new level. I definitely blame the players and coaches who just accepted the fact that the team sucked and went with it, just to get paid. Obviously they didn't care enough to request a trade, or play better to help the situation. 

[SdBacker80]

We are talking about a guy that made tackles 5/6 yards down the field or after the first down marker.  

And the other Jackson guy we talk about...when he leads Tenn. State to 6-5 record next season I’m sure we will hear his pity party about how he can’t get a shot at the next level.  
 

We’ve upgraded our situation fellas.  We’ve Traded in the Bungalow for the Beachhouse...the Buick for the Bugatti.

 

[Tour2ma]

Why a Boo-got-tee?

Alliteration?

[Orion]

6 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We’ve upgraded our situation fellas.  We’ve Traded in the Bungalow for the Beachhouse...the Buick for the Bugatti.

Yes, we have (Thank You God) because 20 years of crap was more than enough.  But the thread is not about today.  It's about when Bellyache traded Jamie Collins to us.  He punished him by sending him to football's version of Siberia.  And Collins was pretty good, and we saw that he was pretty good.  But we ALSO saw that if a play got past him, there was no pursuit hustle.  He was NOT gonna overexert himself for a team with no chance.  We've heard reports of agents advising players not to go to Cleveland because it's not good for their future value.  -  But yes, NOW is different.  And Dorsey started it by taking the draft 'assets' that the previous 'asses' had gathered and traded them for some actual football players, like Landry.  He brought talent to us kicking and screaming.....which was the only way it was gonna happen back then.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Yes, we have (Thank You God) because 20 years of crap was more than enough.  But the thread is not about today.  It's about when Bellyache traded Jamie Collins to us.  He punished him by sending him to football's version of Siberia.  And Collins was pretty good, and we saw that he was pretty good.  But we ALSO saw that if a play got past him, there was no pursuit hustle.  He was NOT gonna overexert himself for a team with no chance.  We've heard reports of agents advising players not to go to Cleveland because it's not good for their future value.  -  But yes, NOW is different.  And Dorsey started it by taking the draft 'assets' that the previous 'asses' had gathered and traded them for some actual football players, like Landry.  He brought talent to us kicking and screaming.....which was the only way it was gonna happen back then.

We had a series of fortunate events that even a couple terrible HCs couldn’t derail.

We had Joe Thomas as an example a Pros Pro who was supremely talented at the end of his career and still didn’t mind in fact loved being a Brown

Landry should be credited for changing the culture here too.  When this team gets to a Super Bowl he may be the guy that some of us are the most excited for the opportunity. Thank you Miami!!!

We were fortunate to draft two players like Myles and Baker that are equally competitive as they are talented. 

But you mix in a quiet humble guy like Chubb because your supremely talented guys can’t all be vocal leaders. 

And also Drafting a local elite talent like Denzel Ward we were once allergic to OSU guys. 

And We took a chance on a guy like Hunt that plays as hard as anybody.  A tone setter in a physical division. 

It helps to have your leader of the front office and the HC as the actual smartest guys in the room.  It is Certainly debatable with fans of other teams that may say they have a better combo but Berry and Stefanski are doing a fine job I wouldn’t want any other combo and I think the players here, the players that recently came aboard and finally players around the league are seeing it. 

 

 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

It helps to have your leader of the front office and the HC as the actual smartest guys in the room.

That's funny!  lol   Yup.  We lived through it.  (miss ya Gipper)  We have adults running the show now.  And intelligent ones at that.  'Cos that helps.

 

[Tour2ma]

18 hours ago, Orion said:

That's funny!  lol   Yup.  We lived through it.  (miss ya Gipper)  We have adults running the show now.  And intelligent ones at that.  'Cos that helps.

Not going to be popular, but Haslams also deserve some credit. They made mistakes, but seemed to have learned from them.

Also probably not a coincidence that things turned when Dee got more involved.

 

And of course the constant in the FO thru the bad to the good is DePo.

[Unsympathetic]

On 6/18/2021 at 12:53 AM, hoorta said:

MHO the primary reason the Browns stunk for so long was horrendous drafting

And we're still trying to wash the stink off of this.. Later rounds of a good draft generate the young backups [on rookie salaries which permit the cap flexibility to re-sign starters] and occasional late-round gems.. we've had the pu-pu platter of zilch for many years after round 2.

Everything about 2016.. 2017 after round 1.. 2018 after the selection of Chubb.. This offseason will determine how our entire 2019 draft will be viewed.. Only with the hiring of Berry do our late rounds appear to even be able to make the final roster - DPJ and, hopefully, Felton are a part of changing this trend.

To familyblog The Wolf's best line in Pulp Fiction, let's not start patting each other's backs just yet.

[Canton Mike]

18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Not going to be popular, but Haslams also deserve some credit. They made mistakes, but seemed to have learned from them.

Also probably not a coincidence that things turned when Dee got more involved.

 

And of course the constant in the FO thru the bad to the good is DePo.

This REALLY echoes my feelings! Every time the Haslams erred, they took it on the chin, swallowed their pride, headed in a different direction, & eventually struck gold. DePo is an important piece of that gold.

We'll see what happens as we move thru the years of retaining the talent we have amassed, but this Franchise is quickly establishing itself among the better ones in the NFL.

 

Mike

 Joe Thomas' Aunt Mary...what a neat lady she is!

[SdBacker80]

19 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Not going to be popular, but Haslams also deserve some credit. They made mistakes, but seemed to have learned from them.

Also probably not a coincidence that things turned when Dee got more involved.

 

And of course the constant in the FO thru the bad to the good is DePo.

I forgot DePo definitely agree there.  He did a lot to alter the way of thinking and the added perspective has been a welcome addition.

The Haslems I dunno.  A Broken clock is right twice a day. But They’ve done well or better now of letting others do their job.  

[gumby73]

🤫 curse breaker..😇 

[Tour2ma]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:56 PM, Tour2ma said:

Also probably not a coincidence that things turned when Dee got more involved.

Cool little confirmation in this article's Top Myth...

Cleveland Browns Myth No. 1: Dee Haslam is not running the Cleveland Browns

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/06/20/amazingly-stupid-myths-cleveland-browns/5/

 

Here's the article from the beginning...

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/06/20/amazingly-stupid-myths-cleveland-browns/

[D Bone]

^ Jimmy likes Elaine. 

[MLD Woody]

if you think this is the "dark" side of the NFL then whoah boy you've got a lot coming ...

[lodilobo]

14 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

if you think this is the "dark" side of the NFL then whoah boy you've got a lot coming ...

It's the name of the show. 

[Unsympathetic]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:18 AM, lodilobo said:

I know we've had bad coaches, bad owners and bad players

It's not just specific people -- all professional athletes are extremely competitive and want to win at all times.  The goal is to create a self-reinforcing upward rather than downward spiral.

This is the internal culture of any business -- are people willing to collectively realize that we are all the cause of [and can, if we all own our part, be the solution to] any problem?  One model of business change management is ADKAR.. and we can almost pinpoint the dates each element went from red to green.  Kind of interesting to watch as our team went from being a laughingstonk to a case study in transformation.

That was originally a typo, but I think it stays..

[DieHardBrownsFan]

On 6/21/2021 at 2:14 PM, lodilobo said:

It's the name of the show. 

He's kind of dense.

 

https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/show/dark-side-of-football

 

[ATOM]

damnit i thought this was gonna be a thread about the old darkside forum

[nickers]

Shouldbe been titled...." The NFL.. The WoKe Sid3 "

[Dutch Oven]

54 minutes ago, nickers said:

Shouldbe been titled...." The NFL.. The WoKe Sid3 "

You ate paint chips as a young child, didn't you? 

[Ibleedbrown]