The narrative we knew is not reality...

[hoorta]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:13 PM, jbluhm86 said:

Except that ivermectin is a generic drug that is off patent; it goes for roughly $4 a pill. Pharmaceutical companies are just like companies in any other industry; their goal is to make a profit. On-patent medicine sells for quite alot more than generic drugs, and can only be made by the pharma company that holds the patent and other companies that they contract out to. Faced with choosing between producing a generic medication for little profit and can be made by anyone, or, selling a medication that can bring in substantially more money and can only be made by the patent holder, what course of action do you think pharmaceutical companies would take? It wouldn't surprise me at all for pharma companies to try to suppress continued research and clinical trials into an off-patent generic drug.

Btw, the fact that a medication starts out as veterinary drug is pretty inconsequential. Many drugs that are developed start out as such until clinical trials demonstrate their usefulness in treating humans. It happens all the time. And using a medicine to treat something that it wasn't originally designed for happens all the time too. Pfizer was a middle of the road pharma company in the 90s until they found out that their failed heart medicine was excellent for giving Baby Boomers erections, and now they're in the top 5 largest pharma companies in the world. 

Great- then some pharmaceutical company should be doing  a ton of research to see it it works- or not. 

Show me a few peer reviewed duplicate studies instead of a guy with an agenda to prove it works- first- and then I might believe it...  

Hello? Some people are making one hell of a lot of money selling generic sildenafil of late...   

[Westside Steve]

Of course it isn't gone. The flu isn't gone the common cold isn't gone cancer isn't gone. Maybe smallpox tuberculosis and polio have been weakened significantly but look at TB. It still rears its ugly head partially because of improper prescription of antibiotics.   Also heart disease diabetes and cancer which could all be significantly reduced just by human activity. And yet…. But Hey panic makes us feel special.

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

14 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

If 5 people die, then people are still dying.

If 5000 people die, then a LOT more people are dying.  There is a significant difference between these two numbers.

(not to scale or meant to be accurate, just given as an example)

I'll just point out to you that it's summer again. By Christmas I expect the government will be ordering quarantines and enforcing virtue signal wearing at gunpoint. 

 

The problem is they'll have already blown their wad. I doubt trust and respect for the government has ever been at a lower level in this country. 

I hope it gets to 1790s France level honestly. 

[The Cysko Kid]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I mean, it's definitely a hell of a lot better, but we still need to finish strong. It isn't "gone" by any means. I hope our stupid ass population continues to get vaccinated. 

Whatever war people want to wage against "MSM", while ignoring the massive right-wing media base, is their own thing. I'm over the complaining. 

You fail to take into account that right wing media is still the main stream media. I personally don't trust any media. You can't do it. Government, media both have proven they are not to be trusted. 

[MLD Woody]

29 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

You fail to take into account that right wing media is still the main stream media. I personally don't trust any media. You can't do it. Government, media both have proven they are not to be trusted. 

I would say it's worse when the "I don't trust the media" crowd digress into the QAnon, only biased news sites, I only listen to Twitter crowd. Not saying that's you, just saying that's worse. 

And I very much realize there is right wing "MSM". I was referring to it more in the sense of how it is used here. As if everything negative around news media only affects the left. The same line of reasoning that calls every news source that isn't clearly right wing the "liberal MSM" even if they're just in the middle.

[MLD Woody]

36 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I'll just point out to you that it's summer again. By Christmas I expect the government will be ordering quarantines and enforcing virtue signal wearing at gunpoint. 

 

The problem is they'll have already blown their wad. I doubt trust and respect for the government has ever been at a lower level in this country. 

I hope it gets to 1790s France level honestly. 

And I think the "anti expert" sentiment in this country is reaching an all time high unfortunately

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I'll just point out to you that it's summer again. By Christmas I expect the government will be ordering quarantines and enforcing virtue signal wearing at gunpoint.

And when it doesn't...

[tiamat63]

12 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Wow, you're sure smert.

 

 

[The Cysko Kid]

43 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

And I think the "anti expert" sentiment in this country is reaching an all time high unfortunately

Fauci hasn't been helping himself in the old respectability biz. 

39 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

And when it doesn't...

Then I'll be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and hopefully not the last either. 

[jbluhm86]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Great- then some pharmaceutical company should be doing  a ton of research to see it it works- or not [...] Hello? Some people are making one hell of a lot of money selling generic sildenafil of late...   

And why should pharmaceutical companies be doing that? What incentives do they have to do that? They're getting billions in guarenteed money from governments across the world, with little to no liability on them, to make vaccines that net them 3-4x the money that making a generic $4 pill would make them. 

I don't understand why it's so hard for people these days to take off the rose-colored sunglasses and view the world how it actually is, and not how they want it to be. I'm sure that pharmaceutical companies do want to help people, but that isn't at the top of their list. Making money is. You have panicked governments across the world writing pharma companies damn near blank checks to make vaccines that may or may not be effective at stopping covid-19, yet you're expecting that pharma companies should be investing their own money on the side to see if a simple generic drug that costs  a quarter of what they're already getting paid to make works?

And, knowing all this, people still get all sceptical hippo eyes over the suggestion that pharma companies may be trying to bury the lead on ivermectin? I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night. I've been around the sun on this rock long enough to understand people and their motivations to make money.

[jbluhm86]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

...Show me a few peer reviewed duplicate studies instead of a guy with an agenda to prove it works- first- and then I might believe it...

Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

 

Role of ivermectin in the prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infection among healthcare workers in India: A matched case-control study

 

The effect of early treatment with ivermectin on viral load, symptoms and humoral response in patients with non-severe COVID-19: A pilot, double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial

 

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

 

Inhaled route and anti-inflammatory action of ivermectin: Do they hold promise in fighting against COVID-19?

 

A COVID-19 prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of ivermectin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MLD Woody]

So when did this pivot away from HCQ?

[jbluhm86]

12 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

So when did this pivot away from HCQ?

4-5 posts down on the first page. But I don't think discussing ivermectin is too far of an aside from hydroxychloroquine. It's still a conversation of the effectiveness of using inexpensive generic drugs in the treatment of covid-19.

[MLD Woody]

21 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

4-5 posts down on the first page. But I don't think discussing ivermectin is too far of an aside from hydroxychloroquine. It's still a conversation of the effectiveness of using inexpensive generic drugs in the treatment of covid-19.

Though the link in the OP was about a non peer reviewed study on HCQ that seemed to have some statistical errors in it. So, not anything really acting as the smoking gun in favor of it. 

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

Role of ivermectin in the prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infection among healthcare workers in India: A matched case-control study

The effect of early treatment with ivermectin on viral load, symptoms and humoral response in patients with non-severe COVID-19: A pilot, double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

Inhaled route and anti-inflammatory action of ivermectin: Do they hold promise in fighting against COVID-19?

A COVID-19 prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of ivermectin

Nice try. I know how to read those abstracts. Small sample size,  some studies "no statistical difference". MAYBE worth follow up. I hardly call it "controlled" in one study when some subjects were getting hydroxy and a bunch of other drugs. 

MAY... Yup, may. How did the hydroxy studies turn out?

But OTOH, you're ragging that the proven 95% effective Pfizer and moderna vaccines are iffy? As to let's try another anti parasitical. Yup, Big Pharma conspiracy. 

 

[jbluhm86]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Nice try. I know how to read those abstracts. Small sample size,  some studies "no statistical difference". MAYBE worth follow up. I hardly call it "controlled" in one study when some subjects were getting hydroxy and a bunch of other drugs. 

MAY... Yup, may. How did the hydroxy studies turn out?

But OTOH, you're ragging that the proven 95% effective Pfizer and moderna vaccines are iffy? As to let's try another anti parasitical. Yup, Big Pharma conspiracy. 

 

I feel like you and I are having two different conversations, and I'm not quite sure where your hostility is coming from.

In your comment that I replied to above, you said that pharmaceutical companies should be doing a bunch of research on generics like ivermectin and HCQ to test their effectiveness; I agreed and gave my opinion on why I believe that they are not, as it would affect their profit margins.

Secondly, you asked me to provide a couple peer review studies which indicate the effectiveness of ivermectin in the treatment of Covid-19, which I did. Nowhere in anything that I provided did I state that generics are miracle drugs which would magically cure covid-19 overnight. You are correct that some studies showed inconclusive results, but there are others which showed a positive benefit which, logically, one would think warrant follow-up studies and larger clinical trials, which have conspicuously not happened. 

Finally, nowhere in anything I wrote did I "rag" on covid vaccines. I work for a company who's producing the vaccines and have received my two shots, so I have firsthand knowledge on them. By most accounts, they are a great benefit in helping the fight against covid. But, I'm also not blind in believing that they are 100% effective in treating people, nor do we know potential long term side effects from their use. Most medicines and vaccines are developed and tested for well over a decade before they are introduced and approved for public use; these vaccines went from research paper to needles-in-arms in less than a year. The fact that they are being used under emergency authorization by the FDA and the fact that pharma companies have limited to no liability for future effects coming from the usage of the vaccine is concerning. I believe that we need to fight the virus on multiple fronts and not just solely rely on experimental vaccines. This includes generics which have been through longer R&D phases, been on the market longer, and have a more clearly defined safety profile.

[Westside Steve]

Speaking of the narrative and this, like so many threads is just all over the place, I don't really understand the outrage about hydroxychloroquine. I think I get the political angle which I consider facetious but wouldn't you think that there were dozens if not hundreds of medicines that the professionals thought might be effective when the pandemic broke out? And how many of those turned out to be less promising as they might have been believed to be at the outset?  Plus while I understand it's oh so hip to hate the pharmaceutical companies doesn't it seem as though an effective treatment would have raked in billions for them?

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/pharmacy/3-drugs-that-have-failed-to-benefit-covid-19-patients-in-clinical-trials.html

 Here are 3 that I've heard absolutely nothing about.

WSS

[jbluhm86]

On 6/16/2021 at 12:20 AM, hoorta said:

...But OTOH, you're ragging that the proven 95% effective Pfizer and moderna vaccines are iffy? As to let's try another anti parasitical. Yup, Big Pharma conspiracy. 

 

Btw, Dr Robert Malone, the scientist who invented the mRNA technology which is being used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, has come out and publicly questioned the safety of the vaccine, saying that the spike protein RNA being put in the mRNA vector of the vaccine is potentially dangerous and cytotoxic. 

So is the vaccine effective? More or less. But effectiveness isn't always coupled with safe.

[hoorta]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:37 PM, jbluhm86 said:

Btw, Dr Robert Malone, the scientist who invented the mRNA technology which is being used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, has come out and publicly questioned the safety of the vaccine, saying that the spike protein RNA being put in the mRNA vector of the vaccine is potentially dangerous and cytotoxic. 

So is the vaccine effective? More or less. But effectiveness isn't always coupled with safe.

Fair enough- we don't know what the long term effects of the vaccines will be. But cytotoxic?  If it was, with several hundred million doses administered- we'd certainly have some inkling if they were "cytotoxic", at least in the short term.

Your body your choice. But for every anti vaxxer who comes down with covid- there's also the chance of a mutation that's going to render the vaccines ineffective.   

BTW- The Internet is a blessing and a curse.    I'm old enough to remember when the "experimental" polio vaccines came out. The difference being back then everyone with a blog (they didn't exist) could spread misinformation, disinformation and outright crap (magnetism anyone?) about the vaccines. You just lined up and got your shot or sugar cubes. So go ahead- take your chances. You might be lucky and not die. OTOH, my younger brother walked with a limp for the rest of his life- he was one of the lucky ones who only got a mild case of polio. 

[Vambo]

'SOVIET-STYLE'

Pelosi slammed for 'covering for China' by blocking COVID-19 origin probe

[FairHooker11]

Starting with the pecker himself...

[calfoxwc]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:20 AM, hoorta said:

Great- then some pharmaceutical company should be doing  a ton of research to see it it works- or not. 

Show me a few peer reviewed duplicate studies instead of a guy with an agenda to prove it works- first- and then I might believe it...  

Hello? Some people are making one hell of a lot of money selling generic sildenafil of late...   

why should they do R&D when your biden puppet canceled covid patents ? Why would they put all that expense into it when they can't get their R&D investments return?

Biden's plan to cancel life-saving cures for seniors

 

[calfoxwc]

11 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

Starting with the pecker himself...

[MLD Woody]

12 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

Starting with the pecker himself...

The lady that thinks demons make you masturbate? 

The lady that thinks alien DNA is used in medical treatment?

The lady that thinks the govt is making a vaccine to make people not religious?

The lady that blames medical conditions on witches and demons?

The lady who at best runs an urgicare next to her evangelical church?

 

 

What exactly does she deserve an apology for?

 

 

 

Christ, the anti science / anti expert sentiment that's growing in this country is going to be our downfall

[Westside Steve]

23 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The lady that thinks demons make you masturbate? 

The lady that thinks alien DNA is used in medical treatment?

The lady that thinks the govt is making a vaccine to make people not religious?

The lady that blames medical conditions on witches and demons?

The lady who at best runs an urgicare next to her evangelical church?

 

 

What exactly does she deserve an apology for?

 

 

 

Christ, the anti science / anti expert sentiment that's growing in this country is going to be our downfall

 Unless of course its people who think women have dicks and balls. 

(But we know demons don't cause masturbation. For Woody it's naked pictures of Macaulay Cullkin.)

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

And now the VA is authorizing Transgenders to have sex change operations at government expense.  Meanwhile, thousands of vets get disapproved for service connected ailments.  How the fuck is this fair?

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

And now the VA is authorizing Transgenders to have sex change operations at government expense.  Meanwhile, thousands of vets get disapproved for service connected ailments.  How the fuck is this fair?

Sometimes- I have to agree with you... A sex change operation should fall under the umbrella of "cosmetic surgery" and AFAIK that's never covered by insurance.  

[hoorta]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:50 AM, MLD Woody said:

The lady that thinks demons make you masturbate? 

The lady that thinks alien DNA is used in medical treatment?

The lady that thinks the govt is making a vaccine to make people not religious?

The lady that blames medical conditions on witches and demons?

The lady who at best runs an urgicare next to her evangelical church?

What exactly does she deserve an apology for?

Christ, the anti science / anti expert sentiment that's growing in this country is going to be our downfall

Took me a bit to connect the dots Woodster. Dr. Devil Sperm...  Total fruit loop. How she ever got a medical license in Texas is a mystery to me..  Medical School in Nigeria? Run by a pack of witch doctors?    Munyumba should stick to economics...  

And covid vaccines will magnetize you....   

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

And now the VA is authorizing Transgenders to have sex change operations at government expense.  Meanwhile, thousands of vets get disapproved for service connected ailments.  How the fuck is this fair?

that is just offensive. I guess they figure too many folks in the military aren't sold out lefties. But they figure the trans vote left...

whatever. It's sick and twisted offensive garbage.

[jbluhm86]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:51 PM, hoorta said:

Fair enough- we don't know what the long term effects of the vaccines will be. But cytotoxic?  If it was, with several hundred million doses administered- we'd certainly have some inkling if they were "cytotoxic", at least in the short term...

Here you go.