Tour2ma Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 20 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Doesn't factor into this particular discussion. You say that as if it matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 5/28/2021 at 5:46 PM, Bob806 said: I still say Kelly was over rated. Sugar huddle made him. K-gun, baby... Many have forgotten that Jim was a star for the Houston Gamblers in the USFL... shit league, but with some very good teams including Houston's. The Gamblers employed the "Run n shoot" Offense. As much as any it was the forerunner to the "passing league" we enjoy(?) today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 41 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: You say that as if it matters... I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense. Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Marino started only 9 games his rookie year... and appeared in only 2 others. So.... no... FYI.... the other 6 'Fins starts were divided between Woodley (5) and Don Strock (2). So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach. So..................yes.😎 Miami Dolphins (2) (AFC) (7–2) Washington Redskins (1) (NFC) (8–1) 17 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, tiamat63 said: I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense. Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts. What I acknowledge is that you seem to have wanted to completely narrow the focus of the conversation to a single narrow statistic....that we both agree was bogus....and didn't make sense. I acknowledge that I attempted to bring some sense into the discussion by providing a much wider scope/point of view to the subject of: What QBs did really well in their early careers. Don't you think that topic requires a much wider lens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Tour2ma said: K-gun, baby... Many have forgotten that Jim was a star for the Houston Gamblers in the USFL... shit league, but with some very good teams including Houston's. The Gamblers employed the "Run n shoot" Offense. As much as any it was the forerunner to the "passing league" we enjoy(?) today. I didn't forget lol. I also didn't forget Kelly throwing his team mates under the bus after Super Bowls. I'm not saying he stunk. I just don't agree that he was a 1st ballot HOFer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 I don't remember "the bus" part, but... Kelly was a big part of the Bills making it into 4 straight SuperBowls... I'm not sure there's a more impressive run in league history. When I think about how it had to have gotten exponentially harder to to get back up after each additional SB setback, it boggles my mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: I don't remember "the bus" part, but... Kelly was a big part of the Bills making it into 4 straight SuperBowls... I'm not sure there's a more impressive run in league history. When I think about how it had to have gotten exponentially harder to to get back up after each additional SB setback, it boggles my mind. The Bills ran into buzz saws in my opinion Redskins and the Cowboys 93-94. Their best effort wasn’t pulling off those games. And I’m Not even including The Giants in 91 who knocked off the 9ers in the NFC Championship game. If they would have come of age later say the Late 90s different story and I think their squad handles the Packers, Falcons in the late 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 PFF's 2021 NFL position rankings list is out... This link will take you to the Defensive Lines 1st... than with a easy click, towards the top of the link..All player positions will be ranked.. Top 32 teams or Players... (early) https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-defensive-line-units-entering-2021-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 So we PFF rank as follows.... <<< Yes! I've ordered this lid... QB = Baker Mayfield #10 RB = Nick Chubb #4 and Kareem Hunt #10 TE = Austin Hooper #17 OT = Jack Conklin #12 OG = Joel Bitonio #4 and Wyatt Teller #9 C = JC Tretter #4 DT = none Edge = Myles Garrett #4 and J. Clowney #20 LB = none Slot Corner = Troy Hill #5 Outside Corner = Denzel Ward #8 Safety = John Johnson #3 and Ronnie Harrison #30 Team Secondary Unit = #3 Team Interior Defense = #11 Team Offensive line = # 1 PFF Power Rankings = #8 Total Wins = 10.5 RB Unit = # 1 Receiving Unit = #13 Head Coaching = #7 Pff's Top 50 = #25-Myles Garrett #37-Nick Chubb #41-John Johnson III 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 6/4/2021 at 5:46 AM, Tour2ma said: Marino started only 9 games his rookie year... and appeared in only 2 others. So.... no... .. FYI.... the other 6 'Fins starts were divided between Woodley (5) and Don Strock (2). (SO, given my response below, I did have a good point, yes? So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach. So..................yes.😎 Miami Dolphins (2) (AFC) (7–2) Washington Redskins (1) (NFC) (8–1) 17 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach. So..................yes.😎 Miami Dolphins (2) (AFC) (7–2) Washington Redskins (1) (NFC) (8–1) 17 27 As you note, Marino's team went to the Super Bowl the season before they drafted him. Baker's team went 0-16 the year before they drafted him. Marino went to play for Don Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history. Baker went to play for Hue Jackson, who has he worst losing record in NFL history........save one guy who was a team owner who didn't want to fire himself. Is that the disparity you are talking about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 On 6/8/2021 at 8:12 AM, calfoxwc said: (SO, given my response below, I did have a good point, yes? On 6/8/2021 at 8:12 AM, calfoxwc said: So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Well... Given that Marino was drafted in April, I doubt that he played in MIA's SB appearance 3 months earlier... So there's that... So... no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Well... Given that Marino was drafted in April, I doubt that he played in MIA's SB appearance 3 months earlier... So there's that... So... no... oh, nice try. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/7/2021 at 8:35 PM, gumby73 said: So we PFF rank as follows.... <<< Yes! I've ordered this lid... QB = Baker Mayfield #10 RB = Nick Chubb #4 and Kareem Hunt #10 TE = Austin Hooper #17 OT = Jack Conklin #12 OG = Joel Bitonio #4 and Wyatt Teller #9 C = JC Tretter #4 DT = none Edge = Myles Garrett #4 and J. Clowney #20 LB = none Slot Corner = Troy Hill #5 Outside Corner = Denzel Ward #8 Safety = John Johnson #3 and Ronnie Harrison #30 Team Offensive line = # 1 PFF Power Rankings = #8 Total Wins = 10.5 RB Unit = # 1 Head Coaching = #7 Happy Friday Gents ! Gotta ask....🤓 Receiving Unit = Ranked #13*------ This feels like we got low balled by the writer? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-nfl-receiving-corps-ahead-of-the-2021-season lmo..Were somewhere in that Top #5 in my thoughts... Team Secondary Unit = Ranked #3*------ This seems high for a Joe Woods rebuild? Don't it? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-2021-season I might see close to 7th to 10'ish here?... @tiamat63 Would you toss your early money on, Were..."Not a top 5 Secondary Unit" ? Man! There's a ton of shake ups in personal to these back-end defenses... Edit-- Heck! I think John Johnson might disagree with me already... https://www.brownszone.com/2021/06/10/john-johnson-iii-believes-coordinator-joe-exotic-woods-has-plenty-up-his-sleeve-defense-has-talent-to-be-nfls-best/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, gumby73 said: Happy Friday Gents ! Gotta ask....🤓 Receiving Unit = Ranked #13*------ This feels like we got low balled by the writer? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-nfl-receiving-corps-ahead-of-the-2021-season lmo..Were somewhere in that Top #5 in my thoughts... Team Secondary Unit = Ranked #3*------ This seems high for a Joe Woods rebuild? Don't it? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-2021-season I might see close to 7th to 10'ish here?... @tiamat63 Would you toss your early money on, Were..."Not a top 5 Secondary Unit" ? Man! There's a ton of shake ups in personal to these back-end defenses... Edit-- Heck! I think John Johnson might disagree with me already... https://www.brownszone.com/2021/06/10/john-johnson-iii-believes-coordinator-joe-exotic-woods-has-plenty-up-his-sleeve-defense-has-talent-to-be-nfls-best/ There's a certain amount of faith put on paper here with the secondary personnel. But it's also reinforced by the hope that our pass rush is more consistent outside of just Myles. Denzel, Hill, Greedy and Newsome could be a fine cornerback room health permitting. JJ3, Harrison & if Delpit also stays healthy, is another quality room. While they still lack an eraser at center field (IMHO, unless Delpit grows into that role) there are no glaring weaknesses at DB. They could finish the year to top 5, sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Denzel, Hill, Greedy and Newsome could be a fine cornerback room health permitting. JJ3, Harrison & if Delpit also stays healthy, is another quality room. I love the chance of this groups high ceiling.... Adding JOK's coverage toughness... could walk this unit up to the elite level...I'm hoping it's time for Travis Kelce to start losing a step... We won't have to wait long... Man... I just want to get to week 1 Healthy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 Great Secondaries typically are aided by a great pass rush. You can Chicken vs. Egg it all you want you can talk about coverage sacks but when you speed the QB clock up and you put 320 pound dudes in his lap you can make a lot of DBs and Safeties look good and this is a much better group...God willing they stay healthy. In regard to coverage sacks those aren’t happening often with Tyreke Hill and Kelce flanking wide. Next year will be no different. Myles health, Clowneys health and resurgence, Takks new found focus, the men in the middle if they can get it done that back end works better. 11-5 and a playoff win was very enjoyable last year....but by far the most aggravating issue all last year was blitzing 4 and watching our slow secondary and backers wilt in coverage when they had to chase and roam the field for an extra 2-3 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: Great Secondaries typically are aided by a great pass rush. You can Chicken vs. Egg it all you want you can talk about coverage sacks but when you speed the QB clock up and you put 320 pound dudes in his lap you can make a lot of DBs and Safeties look good and this is a much better group...God willing they stay healthy. In regard to coverage sacks those aren’t happening often with Tyreke Hill and Kelce flanking wide. Next year will be no different. Myles health, Clowneys health and resurgence, Takks new found focus, the men in the middle if they can get it done that back end works better. 11-5 and a playoff win was very enjoyable last year....but by far the most aggravating issue all last year was blitzing 4 and watching our slow secondary and backers wilt in coverage when they had to chase and roam the field for an extra 2-3 seconds. Good news is, when you're facing an oline with a shitty right side, you really don't need coverage sacks. The pressure just tends to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 18 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Good news is, when you're facing an oline with a shitty right side, you really don't need coverage sacks. The pressure just tends to get there. Watching opposing rbs try to figure out which side to try to block should be fun. ..."Garrett" or... "Clowney" .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 Damn folks 🤓... We break news on this little site.... popping up everywhere https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/6/11/22530149/cleveland-browns-renovated-secondary-nfl-third-best-per-pff https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/11/browns-new-look-secondary-ranked-third-in-the-nfl-by-pff/ Hey Tia ! check for those tapped wires on you again 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Good news is, when you're facing an oline with a shitty right side, you really don't need coverage sacks. The pressure just tends to get there. It is New unit and we are facing them week 1. All the makings of a wake up call to the Chiefs that I hope the Browns can deliver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said: It is New unit and we are facing them week 1. All the makings of a wake up call to the Chiefs that I hope the Browns can deliver I had the KC replay on this afternoon... How the NFL network does not show this game's replay more often? ..... is way beyond me? Man! If we bring a defensive unit, capable of forcing 2/3 punts? We can cover that 6 point spread... the over/under is at 52.5 ..(staying tuned on that number) I read, Joe Woods may need 3-4 games to get this defense clicking.... He ain't getting any games from this Fan 🤓... He better heat Maholmes ar'ss up from snap #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, gumby73 said: I had the KC replay on this afternoon... How the NFL network does not show this game's replay more often? ..... is way beyond me? Man! If we bring a defensive unit, capable of forcing 2/3 punts? We can cover that 6 point spread... the over/under is at 52.5 ..(staying tuned on that number) I read, Joe Woods may need 3-4 games to get this defense clicking.... He ain't telling this Fan 🤓... He better heat Maholmes ar'ss up from snap #1 I agree and He better be counting the preseason games. Here’s what he’s facing out of the gate.. Chiefs New Oline Texans who knows what Bears Rookie QB. Get it done!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, calfoxwc said: Watching opposing rbs try to figure out which side to try to block should be fun. ..."Garrett" or... "Clowney" .... No one is scared of Clowney's pass rush. No one. Will he help make the offense more athletic, i.e. help contain a certain QB in the AFC North better? Very possibly. Will he help against the run in general? Yes. Will he cause opposing OCoordinators to stay up late trying to figure out how to keep him from killing his QB? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: No one is scared of Clowney's pass rush. No one. Will he help make the offense more athletic, i.e. help contain a certain QB in the AFC North better? Very possibly. Will he help against the run in general? Yes. Will he cause opposing OCoordinators to stay up late trying to figure out how to keep him from killing his QB? No. well I don’t know... How do you double him now with Garrett on the other side? But priority one with Clowney is stay healthy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: No one is scared of Clowney's pass rush. No one. Will he help against the run in general? Yes. AGREED! Will he cause opposing OCoordinators to stay up late trying to figure out how to keep him from killing his QB? No. OH MY! the Dutch Oven match game contest... is just heating up... for the win 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said: well I don’t know... How do you double him now with Garrett on the other side? But priority one with Clowney is stay healthy Well he had JJ Watt.. so He should've been uncovered.. But I understand injuries got in the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: No one is scared of Clowney's pass rush. No one. Will he help make the offense more athletic, i.e. help contain a certain QB in the AFC North better? Very possibly. Will he help against the run in general? Yes. Will he cause opposing OCoordinators to stay up late trying to figure out how to keep him from killing his QB? No. Well no wonder nobody is scared of Clowney's pass rush. MF is moving to TE, clearly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Well no wonder nobody is scared of Clowney's pass rush. MF is moving to TE, clearly. Dammit, and I originally goofed up and wrote "DCoordinators" instead of "OCoordinators" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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