Maybe linebacker in the first or....second round?

[calfoxwc]

https://www.brownsnation.com/zaven-collins-on-browns-i-love-the-organization/

Zaven Collins On Browns: “I Love The Organization”

and maybe if Jabril is going to be there in the second round? (seriously doubt it)

https://www.brownsnation.com/jabril-cox-could-be-a-target-for-browns-in-draft/

Jabril Cox Could Be A Target For Browns In Draft

 

 

 

 

[gumby73]

 

Ya all ready for this ?

 

NFL Draft

Tulsa LB Zaven Collins Says He’s Talked To Tomlin, Steelers’ Staff: ‘I Love Coach Tomlin’

80 Comments

 

🧐 🤫 🤭      😂🤣🤣     Draftee's love every team paying them....

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.brownsnation.com/zaven-collins-on-browns-i-love-the-organization/

Zaven Collins On Browns: “I Love The Organization”

and maybe if Jabril is going to be there in the second round? (seriously doubt it)

https://www.brownsnation.com/jabril-cox-could-be-a-target-for-browns-in-draft/

Jabril Cox Could Be A Target For Browns In Draft

 

 

 

 

Have you bothered looking at our  Browns Board Mock Draft?  

[ballpeen]

Forget Zaven Collins.  Too big to be a NFL linebacker.  He runs a 4.6 or so.  I like Jamin Davis and his 4.36 40 time.

 

If a pass rusher is what we want, then Collins might be useful as a situational rusher.  If you want that and someone who can run down Lamar Jackson, we best get a linebacker who can do that.

 

That is if we go LB at all early in the draft.  Lot's of dynamic receivers in this draft.  One of OBJ or Jarvis won't be on the team in 2022.

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Forget Zaven Collins.  Too big to be a NFL linebacker.  He runs a 4.6 or so.  I like Jamin Davis and his 4.36 40 time.

If a pass rusher is what we want, then Collins might be useful as a situational rusher.  If you want that and someone who can run down Lamar Jackson, we best get a linebacker who can do that.

That is if we go LB at all early in the draft.  Lot's of dynamic receivers in this draft.  One of OBJ or Jarvis won't be on the team in 2022.

How Collins fits - it depends on the defense role they want to fill, I suppose. There really isn't much of any kind of legit indication as to lb, edge rusher, cb, wr to take a good guess on.  It's just too complicated. Guessing at the top five or so was so much easier................

Jamin Davis? hadn't heard of him ! very similar to Jabril Cox. Best I can guess at - if an immediate dynamic starter falls to the Browns or they move up some spots to get him, it doesn't matter too much what position they play on defense.....

[Tour2ma]

For three or so offseasons I've beaten the LB drum as loud and long as anyone here, but lately I've been cooling on the idea...

... which as likely or not means this will be the year.

 

So why the cooling?

First... in what follows I am not considering the 220-ish pound, hybrid options to be "LBs".

In part this is league trend... in part it's Woods' D... in part it's the signing of Walker atop a couple of rostered LBs including Phillips. Problem is that none of our rostered LBs are "fast". All are 4.6-ish guys.

And while a good head that processes what it sees quickly plus size, strength and agility can compensate for a lack of footspeed in the end these traits plus footspeed is preferred. Unfortunately that combination is not common.... it's elite.

LBs in this draft combines those elements? Parsons... and that's the list. Parsons is the only Round 1 lock in this class.

Agree with ballpeen that speed at the position is what we need. Since it can't be taught, but every thing else can be, I see us drafting it on Day 2, but not at the Mike... that's Walker's job for the year. Davis is a Mike... so is my beloved Nick Bolton... so is McGrone... Browning... Moses... and on and on. Nothing says a collegiate ILB can't make it at OLB at the next level, but adding such a projection increases uncertainty... which is acceptable Day 2.

In Round 1 Job #1 is to minimize uncertainty.

 

At #26 I see pure Defensive BPA with a WR chase and a trade-down cherry on top. However, I don't see an LB in that BPA mix.

[Dutch Oven]

I was all in for taking Ohio State's Justin Hilliard in the mid-rounds, but I can see him going higher than his somewhat extensive injury history says it should be. 

[The Gipper]

Blurb on Jamin Davis I found...if you are talking  40 times:

Jamin Davis' measurements, included a 4.37 40-yard dash at 6'3, 234 lbs. Davis also had a 42” vertical and a 11' broad jump. 

I think that is  basically cornerback speed, fair to say? 

But can he shed blockers and tackle the hell out of people?  Sometimes really fast guys can't do those things.   Not saying he can't, just asking that question. 

[SdBacker80]

Walker, Taki, Phillips, Smith. I don’t count on anyone else.

Walker and Smith are probably short term guys.
Taki and Phillips are hopefuls.

Regardless of the system employed or the type of LBs.  Speed would certainly be welcome sight as would tackling.  Overall  We need dudes in this unit.  

It is a need so if we have a guy identified we need to get him. Maybe you move up from the second round to an earlier pick or the 3rd round into the 2nd to get him.  
 

We got 9 picks, we are super bowl contenders, we have the fewest needs we have ever had...time to be aggressive.

[tiamat63]

Agree on what @Tour2ma said about not only the combination of skills to make an elite LB, but the one's that look to be elite in this draft.   Parsons.... and that's pretty much it.    

The Browns current front office looks like they want to have 2 bigger linebackers who can play downhill behind beef on the interior, then play a speed game on the edge and behind it.    It's a very similar defensive build to the Williams boys and the Vikings roster from the late 2000's into the middle 2010's.

 

[Dutch Oven]

In a system that a lot of time deploys only two linebackers and three safeties, instead of the traditional 3 LB, 2 S, wouldn't you want your LBs to be beefier guys who can take on blockers instead of fast, 220ish lb guys who can get overwhelmed vs the run? 

[SdBacker80]

The word used around Berea since Stefanski arrived “multiple”- Skillset, Position Fit/responsibilities.  Good chance the player will be “multiple”. 
 

Someone that can cover a TE would be most helpful too. 

[tiamat63]

8 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

In a system that a lot of time deploys only two linebackers and three safeties, instead of the traditional 3 LB, 2 S, wouldn't you want your LBs to be beefier guys who can take on blockers instead of fast, 220ish lb guys who can get overwhelmed vs the run? 

Depends on the coach and his demands, really.

Gene Chizik had linebackers that were 205 and 210lb's when he won a ring at Texas.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Depends on the coach and his demands, really.

Gene Chizik had linebackers that were 205 and 210lb's when he won a ring at Texas.

Do you mean Auburn?  Chizik was the HC at Auburn when the won the National Championship. 

[Unsympathetic]

I'm confused why anyone seriously thinks we're going to look at even one LB in the upcoming draft.

You may not like them.. but we signed a FA LB, have a 2nd year player who missed most of the year and is at minimum decent, resigned one [Smith] and have another [Taki] who were top15 rated last season, and are still paying Mack Wilson.

 

Change just for the sake of change isn't helping..

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

I'm confused why anyone seriously thinks we're going to look at even one LB in the upcoming draft.

You may not like them.. but we signed a FA LB, have a 2nd year player who missed most of the year and is supposed to be at least decent, resigned one [Smith] and have another [Taki] who were top15 rated last season, and are still paying Mack Wilson.

Perhaps,  but, it is still perceived as a need for this team, because there just isn't that much confidence, at least among the fans in what we have there.  We have not seen much of Phillips and we have seen none of  Walker, and what we have seen of  Smith, Taki, Wilson  has been sort of  meh.   What the coaches/GM thinks, I am not sure we all know.  We don't know if Walker will be better than BJ Goodson who he basically replaces.  

Then there is history to deal with.   This team has never had  a Hall of Fame talent  at LB,  and I guess we would like to see that sort of thing here.  Closest has been Clay Matthews, and a few other good ones:  Jim Houston/Chip Banks/Eddie and Mike Johnson.   Here have been the Browns LB Pro Bowlers.  Two  guys for one year each  this entire century. 

Pepper Johnson	LB	0		1	1994
Galen Fiss	LB	0		2	1962, 1963
Mike Johnson	LB	0		2	1989, 1990
Jamir Miller	LB	1	2001	1	2001
Clay Matthews	LB	0		4	1985, 1987, 1988, 1989
Walt Michaels	LB	0		5	1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959
Chip Banks	LB	1	1983	4	1982, 1983, 1985, 1986
Tommy Thompson	LB-C	1	1953	0
Jim Houston	LB-DE	0		4	1964, 1965, 1969, 1970
Tony Adamle	LB-FB	0		2	1950, 1951
Bob Golic	NT-DT-LB-DE	0		3	1985, 1986, 1987
Joe Schobert	OLB

[Unsympathetic]

It may very well be a need, but don't convince yourself that the available talent in 2021 draft represents an improvement over players we already have. If HOF is the criteria, the 2021 draft ain't the source for LB's..

Baron Browning is thisclose to being exactly the same player as Taki 2 yrs ago.

Many players would be a substantial improvement over Gustin at backup DE or the current injury-prone-ness of our CB room..

IMHO the question isn't just availability for our picks but also getting notably more skilled at some position over our current roster.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Do you mean Auburn?  

No I don't.  He was the DC at Texas in 05'.      

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Depends on the coach and his demands, really.

Yup... but the default in a 4-3 is for the DL to keep the LBs clean...

... and to paraphrase an idiom speed fills.

[tiamat63]

35 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Yup... but the default in a 4-3 is for the DL to keep the LBs clean...

... and to paraphrase an idiom speed fills.

That's the job for all DL regardless of front.  You really don't want Oline getting clean splits to the 2nd level unless you like seeing people getting fucked up. 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

No I don't.  He was the DC at Texas in 05'.      

Ah!  OK. 

[gumby73]

Loads of good reads up in here (up in here)... adding *Better team speed* has been the off-season mantra all off season..Just tossing in some truck weights/40 speed digits up in here

 

Cox 232 dnp

JOK 221 dnp

 

                                                       Zaven Collins 259 lbs./ 4.56

ellerson smith 252 4.74

Rashed 251 4.58

__________________________________250's^^

                                                        Micah Parsons 246 lbs. 4.39 ***6.94 3c (freak)

*Browning 245 4.58

*S.Toney 242 4.55

Patrick Johnson 240 4.59/6.97 cone

______________________________________240's^^

D.Barnes 238 4.57

Bolton 237 4.59

                                                          Jamin Davis 234 lbs. /4.47*****

KJ Britt 235 4.75

______________________________________230's^^

Borland 229 4.98

Hilliard 229 4.81

                                                             Chazz  Surratt 229 lbs. 4.58

                                                            Buddy Johnson 229 lbs. 4.57

 

Jacob Phillips Overview                                                   

Position: Inside Linebacker
Height: 6’3″
Weight: 229 pounds

40-Yard Dash: 4.66 seconds
Vertical Jump: 39 inches
Broad Jump: 10 feet 6 inches
Three Cone Drill: 7.38 seconds
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.33 seconds

 

Mack Wilson Overview

Position: Linebacker
Height: 6’1″
Weight: 240 pounds
School: Alabama Crimson Tide

Combine Performance Data 
40-yard dash: 4.71 seconds
Vertical Jump: 33 inches
Broad Jump: 10.08 inches
Three-cone drill: 7.20 seconds
20-yard shuttle: 4.50 seconds

Yeah... adding better team speed is highly doable...but, Seeing the LB position, while adding better speed as a 'higher drafting priority' is a wait & see 👀

 

[Orion]

Yeah, we could certainly use more speed at LB.  But it's currently a downgraded position in the new defenses.  Kind of a catch 22.  You want more speed but you don't want to invest much.  

[Unsympathetic]

It's not just "more speed" - it's short-area quickness and change of direction skills for coverage purposes which is the component that's lacking.

Wilson/taki/Phillips have enough of a 40 time.. 3-cone is more precise.

[SdBacker80]

Before we bypass a LB in this draft...

Anyone think Mack Wilson is a trade or cut candidate prior to Week 1?  

But If Mack is included Week 1, we have Taki and Phillips as well and both have flashed.  I am particularly interested in seeing Phillips in Year 2 (hopefully healthy too).

Walker and Smith are ? Beyond 2021. Maybe you draft and develop behind these two? 

So if everything works out health wise we have five for the position group and Keep in mind we had five LBs get significant PT (defensive snap counts) last season. 

We have bigger needs DE, DT, CB but a second day LB to push guys like Wilson, Taki, Phillips and provide insurance in case an older player like Smith breaks down - not a bad idea and it certainly can’t be ruled out. 

 

 

 

 

[nickers]

I would go LB'er in the 1st.. DL looks average this draft...

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

Wilson/taki/Phillips have enough of a 40 time.. 3-cone is more precise.

Agreed! (but, has Taki reached the endzone yet on that Wentz pick ? ) 

 Lamar was lucky enough to have Yanda at RG when he was drafted..Now it will be our old pal Kevin Zeitler.... 10-15 play calls are Lamar read options off the back of his RG/LG...

It causes me to play drinking games seeing it coming..    if a decent 3-cone drill LB can plant his foot in the ground, than plant his arss... Am all In...

[tiamat63]

The reason Symp is pointing out 3 cone agility and change of direction speed is because in a game such as football putting ever more importance on plays between the 20's that place linebackers in a conflict of assignment (RPO's are the best example of this) that makeup first step becomes critical compared to what it may used to have been valued.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We have bigger needs DE, DT, CB

I don't know how high CB is on the list right now with our FA signing.  I know that you can neve have enough of 'em, but you can only 'afford' so many.

[ballpeen]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:07 PM, The Gipper said:

Blurb on Jamin Davis I found...if you are talking  40 times:

Jamin Davis' measurements, included a 4.37 40-yard dash at 6'3, 234 lbs. Davis also had a 42” vertical and a 11' broad jump. 

I think that is  basically cornerback speed, fair to say? 

But can he shed blockers and tackle the hell out of people?  Sometimes really fast guys can't do those things.   Not saying he can't, just asking that question. 

Here is a nice film breakdown on Davis.  If we pick a LB early, Davis is the guy.  He fits the mold of the type of backer our D wants to play.

 

Jamin Davis Might be the Best LB in 2021 NFL Draft - YouTube