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JJ Watt to Cardinals

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16 hours ago, Erie Dawg said:

This is the first time that I've heard the browns are in a cap crunch.

If the cap is 185 [optimistic] then the one-year cap Browns have to sign rookies and any FA - including mitch and higgins among others - is 21M.

Current Browns salary liabilities for 2021 are at the cap of last season - 196M.. and we have signed zero FA or rookies.  196 is 11M above the 2021 cap.. so that 11M already comes off the total of our "rollover" from last year, or 32M.

Rookies will be roughly 8 - that link shows an expected 2021 salary for every pick in May's draft.

So we're already down to only 13M for Browns' actual one-year cap space.. and we still haven't signed any FA such as Mitch or Higgins. 

Of course, if Watt is willing to sign for 2/13, great! Other than that, someone's getting cut or restructured.  Sure, something would likely get done because higgins and mitch are great depth pieces -- but nothing has happened yet.

 

Browns do not have anything close to the space to take on Miller's 22M salary.. another way of wording that is cap crunch.

 

What, you expected companies whose business model requires you to click on a link.. to write a somber realistic assessment?

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Unfortunately NFL salary crap structures are not as simple as that. They can restructure and create cap space if they feel the need and currently we are sitting better than the rest of the rumored teams to be interested in watt.

And I can guarantee I have absolutely hundreds and hundreds of less hours invested in research into the cap. Honestly  don't care.It's an utter waste of time, there is more important things to do than to invest time into something you have no control over. If we get him awesome if we don't oh well. 

But as far as crunching goes we ain't that far off if we want to get him. Crunching numbers to me would be if we were in the negative or only plus a mill or two. Then we would be not having conversations of signing anyone.

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1 hour ago, Erie Dawg said:

Unfortunately NFL salary crap structures are not as simple as that. They can restructure and create cap space if they feel the need and currently we are sitting better than the rest of the rumored teams to be interested in watt.

And I can guarantee I have absolutely hundreds and hundreds of less hours invested in research into the cap. Honestly  don't care.It's an utter waste of time, there is more important things to do than to invest time into something you have no control over. If we get him awesome if we don't oh well. 

But as far as crunching goes we ain't that far off if we want to get him. Crunching numbers to me would be if we were in the negative or only plus a mill or two. Then we would be not having conversations of signing anyone.

And they may not have long term obligations with guys like Ward, Bitonio, Tretter, OBJ, and Chubb.  As unpopular as some of those moves would be it could be our impending reality. 
 

We aren’t in bad spot at all.  We don’t have a roster riddled with bad contracts.

But you see where this is headed it doesn’t take an advanced level of cap knowledge to see that.

1. We are locked in Garrett

2. We may be locked into Baker (big cap number coming soon) 

So two biggies and then you get frugal and you hopefully amass some draft capital to fill needs cheaply (doing that well this season - got 9 picks).

We have two years IMO until the reality of two large contracts and role players set in so peddle to floor would be my approach for 21 and 22.  
 

This year you have some restructure candidates, trade candidates and cut candidates not many though that can create space to get a little better and maybe that little better we overtake Baltimore, Buffalo and KC.  What additions make our personnel groups better to take on those teams. 

Now is the time my friends   

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19 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

And they may not have long term obligations with guys like Ward, Bitonio, Tretter, OBJ, and Chubb.  As unpopular as some of those moves would be it could be our impending reality. 
 

We aren’t in bad spot at all.  We don’t have a roster riddled with bad contracts.

But you see where this is headed it doesn’t take an advanced level of cap knowledge to see that.

1. We are locked in Garrett

2. We may be locked into Baker (big cap number coming soon) 

So two biggies and then you get frugal and you hopefully amass some draft capital to fill needs cheaply (doing that well this season - got 9 picks).

We have two years IMO until the reality of two large contracts and role players set in so peddle to floor would be my approach for 21 and 22.  
 

This year you have some restructure candidates, trade candidates and cut candidates not many though that can create space to get a little better and maybe that little better we overtake Baltimore, Buffalo and KC.  What additions make our personnel groups better to take on those teams. 

Now is the time my friends   

Yep I agree. If they can make it happen great.

We don't have to worry about Baker yet and can tag him for a year if needed.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

What additions make our personnel groups better

If we go after Watt, we have less depth at DB, LB, DL -- because 2/3 of those groups from our roster this past season are UFA right now.. not on our roster and not part of the group that adds to 196. If you want good groups you can't have lots of superstars.  If you want superstars you better get very lucky that those stars don't get injured.. which is not a bet I'd make on Watt.

And remember: If your solution is to "make moves from our current roster" .. that means some group's strength is decreased.

 

But if cap reality is too much detail.. of course everything is solved with magical thinking! And if it's going to be magical thinking.. we don't need Watt -- we have Future Hall of Famer Curtis Weaver coming off injury next season for our edge rotation!

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5 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

If we go after Watt, we have less depth at DB, LB, DL -- because 2/3 of those groups from our roster this past season are UFA right now.. not on our roster and not part of the group that adds to 196. If you want good groups you can't have lots of superstars.  If you want superstars you better get very lucky that those stars don't get injured.. which is not a bet I'd make on Watt.

And remember: If your solution is to "make moves from our current roster" .. that means some group's strength is decreased.

 

But if cap reality is too much detail.. of course everything is solved with magical thinking! And if it's going to be magical thinking.. we don't need Watt -- we have Future Hall of Famer Curtis Weaver coming off injury next season for our edge rotation!

Well I mentioned Curtis Weaver as a lottery ticket a month ago or so.  So I’m on that thought.  But I mentioned Watt+plus a high pick plus a Porter Gustin combo as a decent option.  I’d argue an improvement from what we had last year. 

And I’ve mentioned we can maneuver this season unlike most teams.  “maneuver” can take on many forms and we aren’t crippled by this unlike most teams.   
 

We can save down the road but the reality is I don’t think we are saving to retain all of these 22, 23 FAs we have.

 

its win now and build around Baker and Myles later 

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Always can maneuver -- but much less with Watt on the roster.

As in all things, it's either have productive depth OR have a superstar. Can't do both.. this isn't Madden on easy

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24 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

If we go after Watt, we have less depth at DB, LB, DL -- because 2/3 of those groups from our roster this past season are UFA right now.. not on our roster and not part of the group that adds to 196. If you want good groups you can't have lots of superstars.  If you want superstars you better get very lucky that those stars don't get injured.. which is not a bet I'd make on Watt.

And remember: If your solution is to "make moves from our current roster" .. that means some group's strength is decreased.

 

But if cap reality is too much detail.. of course everything is solved with magical thinking! And if it's going to be magical thinking.. we don't need Watt -- we have Future Hall of Famer Curtis Weaver coming off injury next season for our edge rotation!

Whatever the fuck we do,   sign Watt, not sign Watt.  Extend players, not extend players.....whatever,    we need to improve this defense. 

Maybe getting injured guys back....Delpit,  Williams....Charlie/Sigourney/Curtis/Dennis/Earl/Fritz/Buck Weaver...whomever.....and drafting some players is all we need.  Don't really know.....I just know the Browns need to improve their defense. 

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Just now, Unsympathetic said:

Always can maneuver -- but much less with Watt on the roster.

As in all things, it's either have productive depth OR have a superstar. Can't do both.. this isn't Madden on easy

I don’t play Madden or video games for that matter.

Im on the Watt train but the train stops if he wants multi year superstar money.  
Much like most talent available it looks good until I see the asking price.  

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Apparently it is between Titans, Packers and Bills for JJ Watt, according to John Clayton.

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On 2/22/2021 at 5:17 PM, Erie Dawg said:

Knot? Or not or don't? This is the first time that I've heard the browns are in a cap crunch.

Blind and can't spell.

Typo... so sue me.

Hope you learned something from Unsym's reply this time. He's got to be getting tired of posting variations of the same explanation.

 

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13 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Hope you learned something from Unsym's reply this time. He's got to be getting tired of posting variations of the same explanation.

 

What was I supposed to learn? I think he was arguing more with himself than anyone. No one said break the bank. Get him at all costs. Most everyone's feelings were great if we can, no biggie if we can't. Unless I missed interpreted something.

I think I even said somewhere, if we do get him I'd grab an additional edge guy with the first pick.

Either one of the fellas out of the U. Would work for me.

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13 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Latest article...

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-reportedly-not-on-watt-list

For those who still hold out hope there's plenty for you in the article.

Here is how I see this. It's odd that a number 15/17 mill is thrown out there  right now. I think the offers from the front runners were lower than expected and this came from a team that's not a contender. And this is put out to put pressure on the teams that are front runners. Could be wrong just a first reaction.

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13 hours ago, ATOM said:

oh so that hack works in seattle now 

wonder why espn fired him ?

Couldn't afford him. ESPNs revenue is in the shitters and no one watches them anymore. Don't worry though Disney will save them,LoL!

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1 hour ago, Erie Dawg said:

What was I supposed to learn? I think he was arguing more with himself than anyone. No one said break the bank. Get him at all costs. Most everyone's feelings were great if we can, no biggie if we can't. Unless I missed interpreted something.

I think I even said somewhere, if we do get him I'd grab an additional edge guy with the first pick.

Either one of the fellas out of the U. Would work for me.

Yes!!! No one wants Watt on a longer deal.  Repeat no one wants Watt on a longer deal.  If he only wants us on a longer deal than we don’t want him.  Pretty simple. 


Draft Rousseau and bring on Watt on a short term deal.  That’s your rotation on the other side.   


 

 

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17 hours ago, ATOM said:

oh so that hack works in seattle now 

wonder why espn fired him ?

He went out when they released a bunch of people a couple of years back  (mainly older white men like Clayton, Werder)   I guess it was an austerity move supposedly.   Though they have also gotten rid of the likes of Michael Smith.  And they fired Jemele Hill for, of all reasons...calling Trump a "white supremacist"  of all things.  (of course, that is exactly what he is). 

But they have continued a purge lately, either firing or reassigning the likes of Dan LeBatard, Trey Wingo, Mike Golic, Michelle Beal , Will Cain, Tom Rinaldi..and others.  Some claim it is over political correctness,  but I think it is over money.   They are cheap and that is why people leave, or why they let them go if they are making too much. Think of all the people that left there and went elsewhere  (either Fox or  NBCsports).  

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4 hours ago, Erie Dawg said:

What was I supposed to learn?

The actual numbers.

 

4 hours ago, Erie Dawg said:

I think he was arguing more with himself than anyone

If I'm arguing with myself, then will you support my petition to Zombo to delete every profile [including yours] that posted contradictory statements to mine?  This forum bans sock puppets.  After all, if I'm arguing with myself, of course you'd support this - because you are me!

 

Didn't think so.

4 hours ago, Erie Dawg said:

No one said break the bank. Get him at all costs.

Strawman argument.  Multiple people have said "we have >10M space" earlier in this very thread.  [and yes, it was a different number each time.]

 

To be clear and concise: Spending over 10M for JJ is breaking the bank given the assumptions I've detailed earlier in this thread.

 

If your position has actually swung around to "don't break the bank to sign him" .. then I'm glad to see you finally agree with this poster from earlier on page8 of this thread:

On 2/23/2021 at 9:52 AM, Unsympathetic said:

if Watt is willing to sign for 2/13, great!

We really would save a lot of time next thread if you'd start by agreeing with me.. My analysis would be the same.

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Watt 4-5 years ago...no doubt.

 

Today he is a broken down player on his last leg.  I pass unless we are talking 2 years at 9mil, plus incentives to get him up to maybe 12 mil total. 

 

My theory is sign players for who they are, not what they were.

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5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

This thread is still a thing? 

As long we have an outside shot at Watt.  

The discussion should also include the alternative to no Watt.  If there’s no money that precludes Barrett, Williams, Hendrickson, Clowney, Ngakoue types.  We know the Browns pursued Clowney last season and given the potential loses of Vernon and Ogunjobi - fair to say premier draft capital and maybe a decent signee or both will happen?

Let’s do a quick run down of the D Line.

Garrett

Ogunjobi (likely gone)

S. Richardson

Gustin

 Vernon (likely gone; if he’s back is he recovered next year)

Billings

Elliot

Taylor 

Clayborn 

 

Good Depth but we need a starter type on the other edge and we have a few guys in this mix nearing the end of their tenures in their careers or at the very least time with the Browns. 
 

 

 

 

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he will be a packer.  would be nice if he comes here but don't have my hopes up.

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If he wanted to play for the Browns he would have signed by now. He’s waiting for the other teams to clear salary before he signs 

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3 hours ago, LBC mike said:

he will be a packer.  would be nice if he comes here but don't have my hopes up.

I think so too.  Holding out hope though.

We have some holes on the front and we need some kind of backup plan. 

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We'll see what happens around 3/15. I think Berry is extremely intelligent & "forward thinking". I trust him & his staff to make the move(s) that best helps the Browns now & later.

Mike

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JJ Watt just signed with the Cardinals, 2 years @$31 million. 

Glad that's over. 

 

 

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Glad to see he is chasing the ring. With the 49ers, Rams and Seahawks in their division the Cardinals won't smell playoffs.

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